STOPPING POWER!

[EzyStriderPS4 191]

Since the devs are probably never going to add vitals, here is my proposal for more sim damage numbers. Shock needs to be nerfed quite a bit in my opinion also. We don’t have time for that here.

Format = Damage from 10m or less (center-mass) to Unarmored/Stab/Press/Plate — Caliber and weapon. 

• 140/135/95/90 — 7.62x54  Mosin and SVD
• 130/120/90/85 — 7.62x51  Tundra
• 120/110/80/55 — 7.62x51  FAL
• 105/100/65/45 — 7.62x39  SKS, BK, and CR-527
• 100/  90/55/35 — 7.62x39  AKM
•   55/  55/50/45 — 9x39AP  VAL and VSS
•   50/  40/25/18 — 9x39       VAL and VSS
• 105/100/60/35 — 5.56        Scout
• 105/100/65/40 — .357        Repeater
•   75/  70/55/30 — 5.56        M-16, AUG, and Famas
•   50/  45/40/24 — 5.56        M4-A1 and AK-101
•   40/  35/30/20 — 5.45        AK-74
•   35/  33/25/15 — 5.45        AKS-74U
•   50/  40/30/18 — .45          UMP
•   33/  30/20/13 — 9X19       MP-5K
•   33/  30/20/13 — .380        Skorpion 

THESE NUMBERS ARE APPROXIMATIONS BASED ON AMMO CALIBER AND BARREL LENGTH. PISTOL DAMAGE SHOULD BE SCALED ACCORDINGLY.

Heavier, less aerodynamic rounds (9x39, .45, .357, 7.62x39, etc.) will be less effective as range increases than more high-power and aerodynamic rounds (7.62x51&54, 5.45, 5.56).

Rounds that should cause the most severe bleeds = 7.62x51, 7.62x54, 5.45x39 (axes should possess similar bleed statistics); second tier = buckshot; third tier = 5.56 and slugs (not sure where to fit these shotgun rounds in?); fourth tier = 7.62x39, .45, .357, and 9x39; fifth tier = other pistol rounds and knives.

A professional suppressor should buff weapon damage because it increases barrel length, thus increasing acceleration and energy.  I don’t care if you are McGeyver, an improvised suppressor should decrease weapon damage because of craftsmanship and fitment.  Furthermore, suppressors should be varied by caliber not gun type.

P.S. Newbs, please stop referring to suppressors as silencers.

Edited January 16, 2022 by EzyStriderPS4

[General Zod 1118]

1 hour ago, EzyStriderPS4 said:

Since the devs are probably never going to add vitals, here is my proposal for more sim damage numbers. Shock needs to be nerfed quite a bit in my opinion also. We don’t have time for that here.

Format = Damage from 10m or less (center-mass) to Unarmored/Stab/Press/Plate — Caliber and weapon. 

• 130/120/90/85 — 7.62x51  Tundra
• 120/110/80/55 — 7.62x51  FAL

Why such a sharp drop against plate carrier between Tundra and Fal ?

Also I disagree on variety of suppressors based on calibres, yes it's more realistic but there is already too many different guns, attachments and general military items in this game and devs should put their efforts else were. I doubt they will, since they probably just copy models from ARMA and pat themselves on the back as if they did a good job, but one can hope. 

As far as slugs go, those will hit hard. You'll often find slugs hitting at 3-4 thousand Joules which is more than 308 winchester ( I use 308 and 30-06 for hunting myself) which is around 2.7 thousand joules, while 30-06 can get as high as 3k. So withing their range slugs are nothing to joke about and they'll poke big holes so there's going to be serious bleeding. And even if you're wearing a plate carrier getting hit with a slug at close range would turn your ribs into a jigsaw puzzle and internal organs into jelly. 

 

Also AP bullets actually do less damage to soft targets (not wearing any protections) since they don't mushroom and generally fly through their target leaving small exit holes taking most of their kinetic energy with them. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by General Zod

[DefectiveWater 535]

I agree with you that current damage system needs some tweaks (primarily slight 5.56 nerf 5-10% and slight .357 and .45 buffs also around 5-10%), but overall I don't agree with your suggestions.
You are suggesting this: Scout dealing 105, Repeater 105 and M4 magically deals only 50, M16 75 and AKS-74U deals 35?

How does the same bullet deal twice more damage when fired from Scout compared to the M4?

2 hours ago, EzyStriderPS4 said:

I don’t care if you are McGeyver, an improvised suppressor should decrease weapon damage because of craftsmanship and fitment.

How so? Bullet gains velocity from the gas in the barrel, once it exits the barrel it's not gonna get slowed down magically.
At best from the first shot you might have a minimal unmeasurable velocity decrease due to it penetrating plastic bottle bottom.

Plastic bottles suppress too much though, should be louder.

2 hours ago, EzyStriderPS4 said:

P.S. Newbs, please stop referring to suppressors as silencers.

P.S. you should know that they are the same thing and both are correct. Stop being a snowflake.

Edited January 16, 2022 by DefectiveWater

[-Gews- 7443]

If we were being "realistic" they would have some kind of consistent formula and plug the real life numbers in to get a DayZ damage value out, versus randomly picking numbers. Not sure why you put 5.56 in "3rd tier bleed damage", it fragments unlike 5.45. I think bleeding and shock should be proportional to damage.

This is the energy of rounds and that is the starting point when considering what to put for "realistic" damage.

[EzyStriderPS4 191]

Excellent discussion! Love all the input. I am no expert. So thank you for all the insight.

@General Zod Thank you for bringing the knowledge about AP rounds, that is a great point. Maybe those numbers should be in reverse.

@-Gews- I know 5.56 has a very decent wound channel, and I rated it higher up than AKM round for bleeding, but slugs and buckshot (if most pellets hit) within an effective range seems more damaging to me.  One thing about 5.45x39mm that most people don’t know is that the bullet is guaranteed to tumble on impact, I believe the term is yaw, thus effectively acting as a buzz saw in soft tissue. The wound channel is absolutely devastating. This is the reason I included it with the largest rounds. I suppose slugs could be in this bleed category as well.

@DefectiveWater barrel length has very much to do with energy output. M4-A1 has 14in barrel, aug has 20in and so does M16. AKS-74U has a 9in barrel, similar to MP5. There is research on this topic from many sources. Also, I don’t insult you, let’s have a discussion.  Be honest with yourself: does the little tube you put on the end of a muzzle to reduce sound and flash “silence” the weapon? Or does it reduce the sound, in other terms, suppressing the weapon decibel output? You wouldn’t necessarily know this without experience but a bright bulb such as yourself can deduce the information. (Again I am not trying to insult you, I do believe you are bright.)

[EzyStriderPS4 191]

@General Zod That effect you are talking about with AP rounds slipping through targets is something the 5.56 round is notorious for in cqb, the boys call it ice picking.  

[EzyStriderPS4 191]

@DefectiveWater You ask me how so?  (About improvised suppressor.)

I quote, “an improvised suppressor should decrease weapon damage because of craftsmanship and fitment.”

The gun barrel is metal. It is oiled and bored. The bullet will accelerate. Then, it reaches plastic and duct tape.  Do I have to keep going?

[EzyStriderPS4 191]

@General Zod Drop off in damage is due to barrel length, Winchester is 24in or 28in, FAL is only 16in. The shot is coming from 10m or nearer, in my mind I thought plate would affect that statistic the most.

[DefectiveWater 535]

3 hours ago, EzyStriderPS4 said:

Be honest with yourself: does the little tube you put on the end of a muzzle to reduce sound and flash “silence” the weapon? Or does it reduce the sound, in other terms, suppressing the weapon decibel output? You wouldn’t necessarily know this without experience but a bright bulb such as yourself can deduce the information. (Again I am not trying to insult you, I do believe you are bright.)

Just drop the discussion, silencer = suppressor. Done.

3 hours ago, EzyStriderPS4 said:

I quote, “an improvised suppressor should decrease weapon damage because of craftsmanship and fitment.”

The gun barrel is metal. It is oiled and bored. The bullet will accelerate. Then, it reaches plastic and duct tape.  Do I have to keep going?

How would a HOLLOW empty space slow down a bullet?

What doesn't make sense is that plastic bottle suppressors can suppress x54mmR and .308 as well as they do.

It's still loud AF, makes no sense it's as durable and quiet as it is in the game.

Quote

barrel length has very much to do with energy output. M4-A1 has 14in barrel, aug has 20in and so does M16

So why does the scout magically do 105 damage?

Edited January 17, 2022 by DefectiveWater
removed unnecessary parts

[RZ0R 65]

Guns experts, everywhere. (yawn)

I wan't realistic bowel movements. 

No wonder we keep getting assault rifles.

[Homeschooliazon 87]

Would be nice if we could get confirmation that the devs are or arent working on the thing EVERYONE is asking for: Volumetric clouds, bow, ragdoll, helis and so on.

Or if they have been canned for good.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Homeschooliazon
Oh wrong post sorry

[Tonyeh 454]

7 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

Just drop the discussion, silencer = suppressor. Done.

How would a HOLLOW empty space slow down a bullet?

What doesn't make sense is that plastic bottle suppressors can suppress x54mmR and .308 as well as they do.

It's still loud AF, makes no sense it's as durable and quiet as it is in the game.

So why does the scout magically do 105 damage?

The bottle suppressor has always been absolute bunkum. But I admit that I don't want to see it nerfed or eliminated from the game either. I like how we can suppress rifles that have no silencer 😛 attachment in game, like the CR527 or SKS, which are basically my go to guns.

In fact, what I'd really like to see is it expanded so that the blaze can take one.

[Tonyeh 454]

5 hours ago, Homeschooliazon said:

Would be nice if we could get confirmation that the devs are or arent working on the thing EVERYONE is asking for: Volumetric clouds, bow, ragdoll, helis and so on.

Or if they have been canned for good.

I'm not asking for any of those things. So, no, not "everyone".

Volumetric clouds would be nice, but who gives a fuck really. They won't make any difference to the game.

The bow will be the first thing dropped as soon as the player gets a gun, so meh. It might be nice to have. But it's still meh.

Ragdoll would probably end up looking dumb. It might help a player to know that another is dead, but at the moment, I have no trouble with that and if I'm unsure I'll fire another round.

I absolutely DO NOT EVER want to see helicopters in DayZ...EVER.

[Parazight 1599]

2 hours ago, Tonyeh said:

In fact, what I'd really like to see is it expanded so that the blaze can take one.

We don't need a bunch of charlies running around with bows and bottles on their Blazes.  Like a Chilly would fit on a over/under anyways.

I would love to fly my helicopter through volumetric clouds!

[EzyStriderPS4 191]

@DefectiveWater I wasn’t assuming the inside was hollow, sorry bud, I had a different design in mind. So in that case, yes, I would leave it alone.

[DefectiveWater 535]

39 minutes ago, EzyStriderPS4 said:

 I wasn’t assuming the inside was hollow

Oh, wait did you imagine that insides had like baffles made out of the duct tape? or that it was stuffed with duct tape?

I think they just should nerf the bottle suppressors massively (usable on lower calibers for a shot or two, almost no effect on biggest calibers).
Crafting DIY suppressors using gas canisters, oil filters, etc (in the industrial workshop buildings)... would be a cool addition too, not as quiet or durable as real suppressors (this would be a good chance to buff real suppressors to make them last longer), but better than bottle ones, but... that might be a little too much to ask for.

Edited January 18, 2022 by DefectiveWater

[-Gews- 7443]

On 1/17/2022 at 4:44 AM, EzyStriderPS4 said:

 I know 5.56 has a very decent wound channel, and I rated it higher up than AKM round for bleeding, but slugs and buckshot (if most pellets hit) within an effective range seems more damaging to me.  One thing about 5.45x39mm that most people don’t know is that the bullet is guaranteed to tumble on impact, I believe the term is yaw, thus effectively acting as a buzz saw in soft tissue. The wound channel is absolutely devastating. This is the reason I included it with the largest rounds. I suppose slugs could be in this bleed category as well.

5.56 can cause an impressive wound at close range because it tumbles and breaks apart, which is better than 5.45 which only does the first half. But even at ranges where the bullet doesn't break apart it still is likely to tumble like 5.45. Which is more "tumbly", I don't know. And you have factors like M193 vs SS109 (or even M855A1) and 7N6 vs 7N10. Check https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6708147/

 

On 1/17/2022 at 5:12 AM, EzyStriderPS4 said:

@General Zod Drop off in damage is due to barrel length, Winchester is 24in or 28in, FAL is only 16in. The shot is coming from 10m or nearer, in my mind I thought plate would affect that statistic the most.

FAL is 21 inches, Winchester is 25 inches (it is "Alaskan" model which doesn't actually come in .308, because "Alaskan" has iron sights). 

If we were comparing muzzle energy among .308 weapons it would look very much like this:

"Tundra" 25-in barrel: 100%
"Blaze" 22-in barrel: 96%
"LAR" 21-in barrel: 94%
"Longhorn" 15-in barrel: 81%