Dayz's Flawed Foundations: Movement and Gunplay

[lakevu 98]

1 hour ago, Salvatore Spampinato said:

damn...we still did not have any changes about movement, some guns had some recoil improvement wich Iiked, and now a new map is coming and Livonia it's going to be free, I cant say that dayz it's in a bad state nor it's in a better state, I think that the state of the game is the same of 1 or 2 years ago with almost the same community number or people, I hope to see an improvement and gun hardcore change in the future🥲

i see no reason to be optimistic. the people working on the game, IE; who actually control this stuff. seems to have no idea or at the very least a SLIM idea of what this actually is or even what made it so great to begin with. I EXTREMELY doubt anything will change into the future and we will continue to see a slip farther and farther into arcadism and making things as easy as they can be. gone are the days of "hardcore" military simulation 

[wadiman355 26]

12 minutes ago, lakevu said:

i see no reason to be optimistic. the people working on the game, IE; who actually control this stuff. seems to have no idea or at the very least a SLIM idea of what this actually is or even what made it so great to begin with. I EXTREMELY doubt anything will change into the future and we will continue to see a slip farther and farther into arcadism and making things as easy as they can be. gone are the days of "hardcore" military simulation 

And the devs will still turn a blind eye to this post instead of addressing it, no feedback in two years. Its almost like the posts that alot of thought put into them dont get a reply from the devs. lol

[lakevu 98]

25 minutes ago, wadiman355 said:

And the devs will still turn a blind eye to this post instead of addressing it, no feedback in two years. Its almost like the posts that alot of thought put into them dont get a reply from the devs. lol

i do find it strange that the one post on the suggestion tab has thousands of views and continually keeps getting updated has got no answer from the people working on the game. ive seen less important posts garner answers than this one. this one has gotten NONE. not a single comment from a person at bohemia and i even tagged them in it aswell as others for comment.

[Sean_87__ 56]

The game needs more realism. Movement, guns, and players stomachs. You can eat 6 elk steaks and still not be full. It’s ridiculous. I can’t stand that you have the ability to carry 900 lbs of gear. Flat out dumb. Running up and down hills at the same speed as flat land. A lot of things need to be addressed besides adding maps and guns. That’s great and all, but bigger fish to fry.

[lakevu 98]

3 hours ago, Sean_87__ said:

The game needs more realism. Movement, guns, and players stomachs. You can eat 6 elk steaks and still not be full. It’s ridiculous. I can’t stand that you have the ability to carry 900 lbs of gear. Flat out dumb. Running up and down hills at the same speed as flat land. A lot of things need to be addressed besides adding maps and guns. That’s great and all, but bigger fish to fry.

Its not that the game NEEDS these things. its that Dayz IS NOT Dayz without these things. Dayz IS a hardcore zombie survival SIMULATOR. that is its identity. and to not be what it is, IS wrong. its not that it NEEDS it its that it isnt IT without it. its no longer dayz

[nemorus 257]

If we're talking about flaws... What about sprint jumping? You know, when you want to cross a hole or something. Most of the times character will jump in place or worse, jump just enough to get itself in trouble. For me it's easy: you sprint, jam jumping button next to the hole and you fly over it. But the weight is weird or maybe balance. Character is like a bag of rocks - it feels like that. That's why i hate any form of acrobatics in this game. Chance of failing those is always high simply because you can't control that.. bag of rocks.

[Salvatore Spampinato 10]

16 hours ago, lakevu said:

Its not that the game NEEDS these things. its that Dayz IS NOT Dayz without these things. Dayz IS a hardcore zombie survival SIMULATOR. that is its identity. and to not be what it is, IS wrong. its not that it NEEDS it its that it isnt IT without it. its no longer dayz

Well, all we can do is watch the arcade apocalypse hit dayz

[lakevu 98]

17 hours ago, nemorus said:

If we're talking about flaws... What about sprint jumping? You know, when you want to cross a hole or something. Most of the times character will jump in place or worse, jump just enough to get itself in trouble. For me it's easy: you sprint, jam jumping button next to the hole and you fly over it. But the weight is weird or maybe balance. Character is like a bag of rocks - it feels like that. That's why i hate any form of acrobatics in this game. Chance of failing those is always high simply because you can't control that.. bag of rocks.

yes i think the addition of jumping and climbing is one of the weakest less thought out additions to the game and should be done extremely differently than it is now. but really its not the ESSENTIAL. the essential is first the basic player foot movements. as if you change that then it becomes apart how incongruent they really are and it would feel wrong to keep it the way it is. but because both these systems are so similar in feeling to eachother right now it doesnt feel like they are out of place.

[lakevu 98]

2 hours ago, Salvatore Spampinato said:

Well, all we can do is watch the arcade apocalypse hit dayz

or you can do something about it. speak up. say something. make people question it and then have them speak up aswell. bring attention to the massive infancies of the game such as the gun mechanics and how point and click they are and as people "is this right?" or is this childish?

bohemia has shown they will cave when come against any amount of serious public pressure. which they did when the aim bug was brought up a few patches ago and on stream they were bombard with the criticism that they dedicate a whole patch to just fixes but dont fix the one blatant one in the game at the time. they caved. and they will do it again if they a see a massive amount of people talking and demanding this. basically, because they have no principles about the game and just do "whatever the people want" which is a problem in itself.

[Salvatore Spampinato 10]

2 hours ago, lakevu said:

or you can do something about it. speak up. say something. make people question it and then have them speak up aswell. bring attention to the massive infancies of the game such as the gun mechanics and how point and click they are and as people "is this right?" or is this childish?

bohemia has shown they will cave when come against any amount of serious public pressure. which they did when the aim bug was brought up a few patches ago and on stream they were bombard with the criticism that they dedicate a whole patch to just fixes but dont fix the one blatant one in the game at the time. they caved. and they will do it again if they a see a massive amount of people talking and demanding this. basically, because they have no principles about the game and just do "whatever the people want" which is a problem in itself.

bro, for over 3 years, devs ignored this suggestion that was made back in 2021, Yea they listened to other more important ones but I think that movement and aim will be not ever modified or adjusted for other like 10 years

Edited May 16 by Salvatore Spampinato

[lakevu 98]

11 minutes ago, Salvatore Spampinato said:

bro, for over 3 years, devs ignored this suggestion that was made back in 2021, Yea they listened to other more important ones but I think that movement and aim will be not ever modified or adjusted for other like 10 years

like i said. my one hope lies at this point in the act of garnering enough people to it be overwhelming in criticism for this change. just like how they caved to fixed the hand bug because there was enough people causing a fuss about it.

thats it. i really dont see anyone actually working on the change to make this decision themselves only what other people say to them. sadly. because it shouldn't be like that. it should be the people working on the game already know this and not have to be overwhelmed by the bitching and moaning of other people to do it.

but it is what it is

[Salvatore Spampinato 10]

18 hours ago, lakevu said:

like i said. my one hope lies at this point in the act of garnering enough people to it be overwhelming in criticism for this change. just like how they caved to fixed the hand bug because there was enough people causing a fuss about it.

thats it. i really dont see anyone actually working on the change to make this decision themselves only what other people say to them. sadly. because it shouldn't be like that. it should be the people working on the game already know this and not have to be overwhelmed by the bitching and moaning of other people to do it.

but it is what it is

it issss what it isssssss https://media.tenor.com/isdqGRRdJCcAAAAM/it-is-what-it-is-it-is.gif

[lakevu 98]

On 5/17/2024 at 10:31 AM, Salvatore Spampinato said:

it issss what it isssssss https://media.tenor.com/isdqGRRdJCcAAAAM/it-is-what-it-is-it-is.gif

sadly

[lakevu 98]

boost

last comment may 21st today is june 4th  (14 days, 2 weeks)

[blueshorts44 46]

@merropa93 Thoughts?

[lakevu 98]

1 hour ago, blueshorts44 said:

@merropa93 Thoughts?

how about your thoughts

Edited June 4 by lakevu

[blueshorts44 46]

1 hour ago, lakevu said:

how about your thoughts

Im pretty sure i replied two years ago. I agree but nothing has been done or said, not a single message from the devs

[lakevu 98]

56 minutes ago, blueshorts44 said:

Im pretty sure i replied two years ago. I agree but nothing has been done or said, not a single message from the devs

true. and yes i do find this quite interesting there has been no comment on this

[merropa93 87]

On 6/4/2024 at 7:58 PM, blueshorts44 said:

@merropa93 Thoughts?

Hey guys,
well, first of all, DayZ is not a Zombie Simulator (the Z stands for "Zero", not "Zombie"- there are no zombies, they are infected people who are still alive, just seriously ill-driven to madness and primal instincts.), so let's get this one straight, and it never was, there is a difference between a simulator and hardcore survival game.

"The difference between computer simulations and computer games is subtle but important. At the core, the distinction is that simulations are about things (or systems) and how they behave, and games are about a fun user experience." - this is the core definition and difference between those two.

I totally understand your point and what upsets you believe me, but this game was never intended as a simulator. Bohemia Interactive has a branch dedicated to simulations and those are for training military forces and civilian organizations. So if DayZ were ever intended as a simulation, it would not be under our game studio, but under Bohemia's daughter.

I know that this reply is most likely something that will probably upset you, and I am very sorry for that, but these are just facts. We have a proverb in our country, that is the biggest truth ever "Není na světě člověk ten, aby se zavděčil lidem všem".
In translation "There is not a person in the world who can please everyone", just switch the person for a company. There will always be people around the world, who will be dissatisfied no matter what one can do, and the only thing that can be done is, to enjoy the little things, because I think that there are some much more upsetting things irl, so why be upset in the game too...if it stopped giving you what you love and enjoy, maybe it's a good idea to take a break from it, or try creating what you want the game to be yourself, that's how most of the games started anyway.
Hope this will help you better understand, why DayZ won't be making the movements and gunplay 100% the same as it is in reality. It may be polished in the future, but it will never be like a simulation.

PS: you can call it a jogging simulator, which it kinda is. Takes ages to cross it 😄

[blueshorts44 46]

4 hours ago, merropa93 said:

Hey guys,
well, first of all, DayZ is not a Zombie Simulator (the Z stands for "Zero", not "Zombie"- there are no zombies, they are infected people who are still alive, just seriously ill-driven to madness and primal instincts.), so let's get this one straight, and it never was, there is a difference between a simulator and hardcore survival game.

"The difference between computer simulations and computer games is subtle but important. At the core, the distinction is that simulations are about things (or systems) and how they behave, and games are about a fun user experience." - this is the core definition and difference between those two.

I totally understand your point and what upsets you believe me, but this game was never intended as a simulator. Bohemia Interactive has a branch dedicated to simulations and those are for training military forces and civilian organizations. So if DayZ were ever intended as a simulation, it would not be under our game studio, but under Bohemia's daughter.

I know that this reply is most likely something that will probably upset you, and I am very sorry for that, but these are just facts. We have a proverb in our country, that is the biggest truth ever "Není na světě člověk ten, aby se zavděčil lidem všem".
In translation "There is not a person in the world who can please everyone", just switch the person for a company. There will always be people around the world, who will be dissatisfied no matter what one can do, and the only thing that can be done is, to enjoy the little things, because I think that there are some much more upsetting things irl, so why be upset in the game too...if it stopped giving you what you love and enjoy, maybe it's a good idea to take a break from it, or try creating what you want the game to be yourself, that's how most of the games started anyway.
Hope this will help you better understand, why DayZ won't be making the movements and gunplay 100% the same as it is in reality. It may be polished in the future, but it will never be like a simulation.

PS: you can call it a jogging simulator, which it kinda is. Takes ages to cross it 😄

Thank you for the reply, I dont think he is looking for perfect realism he wants the game to slow down a little. After 1.0 the handing of the guns and movement felt more competitively made and good positioning less of a advantage.

[merropa93 87]

18 hours ago, blueshorts44 said:

Thank you for the reply, I dont think he is looking for perfect realism he wants the game to slow down a little. After 1.0 the handing of the guns and movement felt more competitively made and good positioning less of a advantage.

Oh, I see. Thanks for the clarification. In that case, I am sorry, it is what it is. 😞

[blueshorts44 46]

9 hours ago, merropa93 said:

Oh, I see. Thanks for the clarification. In that case, I am sorry, it is what it is. 😞

Im guessing there are no plans to change the combat?

[Girth Brooks 570]

Never was. Cool, lets bury this post now. 

[Salvatore Spampinato 10]

On 6/8/2024 at 4:59 AM, Girth Brooks said:

Never was. Cool, lets bury this post now. 

Chad 

[Habibabob 8]

On 11/18/2021 at 1:30 AM, lakevu said:

Hello everyone! I have come here to voice my concerns about the state of the game, primarily the current Movement and Gunplay mechanics in the game. 

 What has made me think a lot about this recently is that me and my friends have been trying to create our own server. Not to be considered "Hardcore" but to be more in line with reality than what seems to be the vast majority of the servers available right now. For example; No Unlimited Sprint, Balanced Weapon rarity, More realistic vehicle fuel consumption and things similar to this that would detract from the PVP, call of duty fantasy land that a lot of servers are basing themselves in.

However the more we have worked on the server and the more we have tried to achieve this vision of creating a server to embody what dayz should really feel like I have come to realize that dayz in its current form can no longer be the "hardcore" survival game that it was originally intended to be. Because of the games current foundations, most notably. Its Movement and Gunplay mechanics Dayz cannot accommodate a truly hardcore experience to what it was founded upon.

But What do I mean by this?

Lets start with Movement,

Everything you do IE; Turning, Leaning, Running, Crouching, Going Prone, Side stepping. Are all done extremely quickly with no inertia or delay from the characters movements. This all leads to problems like twitch shooting. 360 no scopes and many other things you would find in your favorite shooters like Call of Duty and Battlefield.

1.) Leaning speed has lead to people rapidly spamming the Q and E buttons to bob and weave their head while spraying people down.

2.) Going prone from the standing position takes a mere split second all while allowing you to hipfire your weapon on the way down.

3.) While rolling you are allowed to not only shoot but aim with hipfire mid roll.

4.) The Speed of walking and sprinting have been constrained to two speeds with nothing in between. With walking being arguably slow and sprinting being pretty fast.

These are just some of the problems with the current movement system that leads to Call of Duty levels of play not Dayz.

Next Gunplay,

Things like; Hipfire and ADS are all done extremely quickly with little to no feeling of weight, sway or recoil at all. At least compared to .62 levels, which I believe were in the right direction to where the game should be.

 

Conclusion,

All the choices in the games design to speed up and add to the fluidity of movement at the cost of realism and simulation have detracted from the vary foundation Dayz was built upon and leaves the game in a position which is impossible to achieve its original vision of creating a hardcore zombie survival simulator. All these design flaws in the foundations of the game add up to make the game play no better than the next Call of Duty or Battlefield or whatever casual triple A shooter is coming out this year. Without fixing or attempting to fix these vital flaws to the game will forever leave Dayz handicapped in its pursuit to create a truly Hardcore zombie survival simulator.

 

Now I do understand that it may be too late for Dayz or at least the standalone at this point. And the reasoning for these design decisions were not to better the game but to dumb it down for consoles. To make more money and effectively sacrifice Dayz for the betterment of Bohemia so they can funnel all the new money they made from consoles to their next installment in their beloved Arma series. But I didn't come here to bash bohemia about their business practices. I wrote this so hopefully somebody at bohemia will read this and be aware of the major issues to the vary foundation of the game. And not only that so anyone reading this can be aware of these issues as well and understand why Dayz in its current form cannot and will not be able to achieve its vision of being a truly Hardcore zombie survival simulator.

 

 

If you agree with what I have said here and would like to see Dayz return to its original vision, please. Upvote, Like, Comment. do whatever part you can to make this post be seen by Bohemia and others so they can at least be aware of the concerns we have of the game and at the very least wipe any uncertainty from our minds that "they just dont know". taking unfortunate ignorance off the table and leave us confident in knowing, WITHOUT ANY DOUBT, that these choices have been made PURPOSEFULLY. VOLITIONALLY. and not by mere mistake to go against the core foundations of dayz. to degrade it. and make it into something that it was never meant to be. something it never SHOULD be.

Thank you!

 

From One,

lakevu

 

 

Insurgency sandstorm did a great job at making it feel weighty. sometimes to an extreme amount, but nontheless, a movement and gunplay similar to that of insurgency and squad. IMagine if they added PiP scopes.