Let's talk buried loot

[Thundermight 43]

 As the tittle suggests, i think it's time to do something about buried loot.
 Although i don't think it just be limited to only buried boxes or backpacks, it should also hit sea chests and barrels on lakes.
 It  completly destroyed CLE for some servers (yes i mean official servers), for in some cases you can't even find anything besides smg and some rares KAS-74U, everything from akm or above is gone, buried somewhere. I do think we can somehow have a storage system, but it is not healthy to the game if it is that effective, there must be a risk, and for some (buried ones) there are none, so much so, that it makes basebuilding and tends almost obsolete, which is nonsense considering the time or materials it takes to build a base or how rare tends are and how easy to spot it while without camouflage.
 Why is this a problem would you ask? It creates a monopoly on servers, only a few people got almost all loot on that serve using at their will, which usually is killing fresh spawns at coast and thats the biggest problem that buried loot creates. You see, most people have no clear objective or goal in dayz, but even for those that do have, they surely want and will look for some gun/military gear(nv, helmets, armor and so on) Usually you go for better weapons, you sure want to get a M4 or luckly a LAR. But, since it is a monopoly, you are NOT getting it by any "farming" source, your only chance to get that is by killing one of those guys camping fresh spawns. Soooo, since there is no point to go around the map for gear what do that means? There are only "life" in coastal areas, going everywhere else is just pointless.
 Some would say "get a shovel and go hunt for it", well, you can do that an MAYBE find some buried stuff or on lakes, but it still do not solve the problem that monopoly creates and surely do not kill that monopoly itself, since if you found one, there are probable dozes that you did not and problably never will.
 But i'm here to offer a solution, or at least a scope of it. Make it degrade in time (far quicker than that we have now), even if interacted with. Makes so that you can't put a weapon into a wooden crate. No burying around lakes. Makes it easier to spot (some leaves or darker and larger soil).
 This was the reason i took a break from the game, and also the reason my friends quit before me, we went weeks (literally) finding nothing from kamenka to tisy, and when i say nothing, i mean no real gun, (besides KAS-74U) and most importantly, no players. We went playing for around 5 weeks, for 4~ hours/day and in some cases we went for a full week without seeing another player, which is fucked up for dayz. I do not know what drives you in the game, but for me and my friends is that thrill of not knowing when you will encounter an enemy, and for us (due what i've said before) thats just gone.

 I do love dayz and how it is "as real as possible" but i think it's time we adress gameplay instead of reality.

[Parazight 1594]

Go to persistence off official servers.  Find heli crashes.  Jump back to persistent servers. 

[Funkmaster Rick 373]

5 hours ago, Parazight said:

Go to persistence off official servers.  Find heli crashes.  Jump back to persistent servers. 

Server hopping? That's just a different problem in its own right.

[Parazight 1594]

3 hours ago, Funkmaster Rick said:

Server hopping? That's just a different problem in its own right.

Maybe.  What's the problem tho?  Ghosting has been resolved with the random location mechanic.  You pay the price by ending up somewhere new.  It doesn't seem unethical according to how it is set up.  Afterall, there aren't separate characters for Chernarus and Livonia.  Maybe you want to play on both.

Personally, I stick to one official server because of base-building and car-building.  It makes sense.  The path of least resistance to getting top tier weapons is jump to a persistence-off server, build a nearby car and hunt helicopters.  I would venture to say that because persistence-off servers exist, you wont find these rare guns spawning naturally on the persistent servers, ever.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if you have 10+ LARs buried on each of these servers.  This is the system the developers endorse because they've created it.

[Thundermight 43]

 As guy said, thats just a different problem.
 i'm talking based on "persistence on" servers, and would make little sense for me to have a server to farm and another to "be your home" and it does not solve this monopoly problem, only make it worse, since people will mostly use "persistence on" servers for pvp then.

[Funkmaster Rick 373]

2 hours ago, Parazight said:

Ghosting has been resolved with the random location mechanic.

Hey, good point. I forgot they added that.

[Monosof 15]

There are still issues with dysync, items being stuck in tents and barrels, bases having issues with barb wire on their gates (last I checked) not being able to reach the lock or cutting them before they can and just the overall balance to their health. Not to even mention the difficulty of setting a tent in the woods..

Containers and basing need to properly fixed first. I still would not mind if they reduced the lifetime of wooden crates and drybags to a week, maybe it would stop people from burying 20 crates of useless crap.

[Tonyeh 444]

So, let me get this straight...

I am at the moment gathering stuff to stash in my wee camp. So, I found the Varga shotgun last night and I've buried it for later use. Does that mean that I've basically "locked" that particular gun away and it will only spawn in my crate now? And not anywhere else on the map?

If so, that does create a very real problem.

[Monosof 15]

7 minutes ago, Tonyeh said:

So, let me get this straight...

I am at the moment gathering stuff to stash in my wee camp. So, I found the Varga shotgun last night and I've buried it for later use. Does that mean that I've basically "locked" that particular gun away and it will only spawn in my crate now? And not anywhere else on the map?

If so, that does create a very real problem.

If I didn't know a wee bit better I would believe that it would be called the Varga. I always hear about people complaining about the lack of M4s or KAs but it does not seem to stop nearly every person I run into from carrying one.

[EzyStriderPS4 191]

Boo f#¢&!+$ Hoo.

Hoarding is bad, real lame, but having a stash to stay prepared is vital. I'm talking about a sea chest with canned goods and some chlorine tablets. I don't want to build a base. I like to hang out in the woods. Many players on PS4 are despawning, automated half-wits, no matter how modest your cache may be. They just like to be griefers. You can't keep anything above ground. I have 8 guns buried, but those are as good a currency as you will find in DayZ. They are vital for trading, or has the pc crowd been spoiled by greed-fueled NPC trader mechanics? Don't be a fool. This is a bloody apocalypse man! Get your shit together.

[EzyStriderPS4 191]

8 hours ago, Tonyeh said:

So, let me get this straight...

I am at the moment gathering stuff to stash in my wee camp. So, I found the Varga shotgun last night and I've buried it for later use. Does that mean that I've basically "locked" that particular gun away and it will only spawn in my crate now? And not anywhere else on the map?

If so, that does create a very real problem.

3 VSS, 4 VSD, 4 LAR ( counts against Maximum if carried by player, buried, or spawned on map )

5 KA-101 ( counts against Maximum if buried or spawned on map )

10 KA-74, KA-M, M4-A1 ( counts against Maximum if buried or spawned on map )

15 USG-45 ( counts against Maximum if buried or spawned on map ) 

Everything else is uncapped. These values are from 1.04. I am unsure of the values that apply to the Vaiga. Some of the listed values may have been altered.

Would anyone with access please provide the community with updated xml file values? Many thanks in advance!!

Edited July 22, 2020 by EzyStriderPS4

[Thundermight 43]

3 hours ago, EzyStriderPS4 said:

Boo f#¢&!+$ Hoo.

Hoarding is bad, real lame, but having a stash to stay prepared is vital. I'm talking about a sea chest with canned goods and some chlorine tablets. I don't want to build a base. I like to hang out in the woods. Many players on PS4 are despawning, automated half-wits, no matter how modest your cache may be. They just like to be griefers. You can't keep anything above ground. I have 8 guns buried, but those are as good a currency as you will find in DayZ. They are vital for trading, or has the pc crowd been spoiled by greed-fueled NPC trader mechanics? Don't be a fool. This is a bloody apocalypse man! Get your shit together.

 Just what the  F!@# are you talking about?
 i'm talking about weapons and gears that are limited via CLE, those that you listed yourself.
 Not sure how it is on ps4, but on pc there are simply none of those weapons to find, since they are all buried.
 And about a "bloody apocalypse!" i wanna repeat myself here, we should adress gameplay instead reality sometimes.

[Parazight 1594]

35 minutes ago, Thundermight said:

  i'm talking about weapons and gears that are limited via CLE, those that you listed yourself.
 Not sure how it is on ps4, but on pc there are simply none of those weapons to find, since they are all buried.
 And about a "bloody apocalypse!" i wanna repeat myself here, we should adress gameplay instead reality sometimes.

The Central Economy (controls more than just loot, 'CLE' is dated terminology) isn't perfect and the devs are willing to entertain any reasonable suggestion.  In fact they welcome positive feedback.  But what should be changed to address the problem without ruining something else?  Jumping to a non-persistent server IS an option.

Your suggestion to have certain loot degrade sooner could be a possibility, but where do you draw the line.  At some point, a player who plays legitimately will get screwed over no matter what the change is.

Honestly, if you really want certain loot than you have a number of options.  Play a modded server.  Play on a private hive.  Jump to a persistence-off server.  How bad do you really want these things.  They ARE obtainable.  You just have to put in more work than you thought.

On 7/21/2020 at 12:18 AM, Thundermight said:

killing one of those guys camping fresh spawns.

Yea.  Maybe try that.  What do you have to lose?

[aux7 233]

7 hours ago, EzyStriderPS4 said:

Would anyone with access please provide the community with updated xml file values? Many thanks in advance!!

personally , I do bury stuff. Especially before going into a mil base. I have a stash of weapons, rounds and other items buried as a back up on death. I dont store stuff I value in tents, because they are easily found. I regularly find tents . . .. .

I dont currently have any "special weapons" (VSS, SVD, FAL, AKM or M4) buried or on me, partly as I play stealth but also because I havent seen them for a while (I recently changed server). But I do not begrudge those who have found them to have them. For me it is part of the game to find these special items. If they were not special, it would not be fun/exciting to find them.

People have found my buried stashes, and I have found other peoples so its not impossible to find them.

the change in the persistence of buried items is a pain, so I now add that check to my rounds to ensure persistence.

I would also make the argument that Dayz is a victim of its own success, from a peak of 3200 players in august 2018 to a peak now of 24000

some of the official servers are now very busy compared to the old days, maxed out with 60 players at peak times. It used to be that even on a relatively popular server it would not max out in the same way.

This can mean that on that server a lot more than 100 players are registered to the server. This is DayZ US NY 6032 persistence on (not my server)

 

I would however make the argument that the CLE does need to be revised with a potential increase/change in count locn for some weapons because of this increase in numbers.

Having run on modded servers, having unlimited (traders) items doesnt "seem" to have a bad effect, but I dont know for sure.

 

[EzyStriderPS4 191]

@aux7 You da man! Thank you for your time.

[EzyStriderPS4 191]

18 hours ago, Thundermight said:

 Just what the  F!@# are you talking about?

"...Not a game, not a game ...we talking 'bout practice."  --A.I.

Your original post came off as extra salty and tediously whiny.  I apologize for possibly offending you because I despised the entitled, defeatist tone you took.  I am willing to admit that I was wrong.  Sorry.  However, trophies (a.k.a. your precious guns) are won through hard work, determination, and sound strategy.  They are not just handed out.  There are solutions for the "problems" you are having--some of which you admittedly listed--but apparently they don't appeal to you because of the effort you have to undertake.

I believe and support the idea that the C.E. ( @Parazight , hahaha!! ...and thanks for correcting me, seriously. ) is intentionally balanced this way so that rare guns hold a true value to other survivors.  There's no money in this game!  That shit is worthless when Infected roam cities freely, there's nobody behind the counter at the local supermarket, and the government has abandoned the region.  Trading with other survivors becomes important to the mission at hand if you are not self-sufficient enough.  There are strategies for this also.  Which brings me back to what I was saying:  It's a bloody apocalypse, put on your big boy shoes and get tough.

[Thundermight 43]

  I would like to add up that i'm not saying "I want my rare weapons" so i'll quote myself here on MY POINT.

 "I do not know what drives you in the game, but for me and my friends is that thrill of not knowing when you will encounter an enemy, and for us (due what i've said before) thats just gone."

 Now, thats the problem. Get it? Right, let's move on then.
 Entire point of this post is the problem that not finding those "rare" weapons create, as someone mention before, finding those special items is amazing and is the search for it that is where dayz really shine. But currently there is no point on doing it for most servers, there is no point going to an military base for loot, unless you need a KAS-74U or a SKS, because there is nothing better than that. So what happens? People stay in the coast. And that reflect back to the quote i just mention.
 
 Now to some actual answers.
@EzyStriderPS4 I do think that rare should mean rare, but as i've mention 5 weeks, 4hours a day (every day, sometimes more than 4) is 140+ hours, playing with a friend and best weapon we find was an AKM (only one) is a bit out of hand even for a rare item.
 And about trading with other survivors being important, that actualy an utopic way to view it. It does sound possible in theory but in reality when you do have such items is quite improbable that you are in need of something else. And in most cases you might get killed in sight by your fellow trader. And even if it goes well, still don't solve what i described as a problem, it will just be a trade between monopoly "X" and monopoly "Y".
@Parazight drawing the line is a real problem, but not doing so would be worst and will became even worse as time goes by. I don't really know where to, but i think it should be considering how much a player have ( or could have) considering the rest of the players (based on a single server scale). For example; I don't think a player or a group of players should hold control of half of a server. But i can see how drawing a line in that direction of degrade might not works on server that have huge clans. Thats why i think that direction should be on not burying weapons at all, only letting tents, sea chests and barrels  with are far easier to find (and not letting them be put into a lake). 

 

[EzyStriderPS4 191]

You found 1 KA-M in about 175 hours. If I had to approximate, I've played 2,100 hours. In that time, I've found 16 top-tier guns, like KAs, M4s, VSS, LAR, et cetera. That translates to 1 every 131 hours. I'm only doing somewhat better than you in this category of DayZ. Keep at it, bud.

Edited July 23, 2020 by EzyStriderPS4
redundancy

[Thundermight 43]

8 hours ago, EzyStriderPS4 said:

You found 1 KA-M in about 175 hours. If I had to approximate, I've played 2,100 hours. In that time, I've found 16 top-tier guns, like KAs, M4s, VSS, LAR, et cetera. That translates to 1 every 131 hours. I'm only doing somewhat better than you in this category of DayZ. Keep at it, bud.

 You are distorting my argument, again...
 As i've said in some servers, for some others that's not the case. And believe me when i say that i DO KNOW how to get loot in this game. Just to give a bit more of context on that:
 Currently i've on my character for 1pp servers 1 LAR, 2 SVD, 1 VSS and 1 M4. Which i was planning to give to my friends, but they prefered to start fresh and on 3pp servers.
 On THOSE 3PP SERVERS that happened my "story", on those servers we suffered that monopoly issue. And i cleary understand that it is not the case for some servers, but it is for some others. 
 I do not know where you play and what problems you are facing on it, but i'm currently experiencing those issues on where i play. Which makes my friends quit the game, and mostly for me oo)
 Only because you can't see a problem, does not mean that it doesn't exists.
 
 Also is the last time i answer your sarcastic misinterpretation of what i said, looks like you just did a quick read and rushed for an answer trying to sound smart, trying to devaluete my point.
 I do want a real discussion about that here and not people trying to mock each other. 

[EzyStriderPS4 191]

I am just comparing statistics.  What I said was rational.  I was not being sarcastic, nor do I intend to devalue anything you have said. I was hoping to be encouraging...

I am against stashes degrading over time.  The alternative to underground stashes is tents and bases. I don't want either one.  You have to try to understand and respect my hermit in the woods play-style. I have seen what you are talking about, because I play on only one server. It goes through cycles. In my opinion, the C.E. is working properly. This game is extremely dynamic and socially complicated. I really enjoy it.

[Thundermight 43]

 Now we talking...
 I do think CLE is "working as intended" for some servers, but since it's a dynamic system it might works differently on others. That said, it is hard to get or give a feedback, considering not everyone will have those same experiences.
 As for tents and bases being as an alternative, here is where i think gameplay should be adressed instead of realist, simply to balancing purpose. You see, i'm not against stashed stuff, since it's a play-style, but that same playstyle must be balanced considering others "storage" systems in the game, otherwise you will make them obsolete.
 Let's just do a quick comparison:
 Wooden crate: In order to make it you need planks and nails(8 and 16 respectively). Planks you can make from everywhere if you have a hacksaw or farm it on a few spots if you don't. Nails is a common item and come in a pack of 70, so you need a box of nails for every 4 crates. Wooden crates have 50 storage slots and can be buried, which makes it really hard to find.
 Tents: They are really hard to find, but let's considering the easier  one, the medium tent. There is no other option besides farming them. They have an storage of 200 slots and can't be buried. 
 With those infortations we can consider a few things, if you consider the fact that 4x wooden crate = 1 medium tent based on slots it pictures how unbalanced this system is. It is far easier to craft 4 wooden crate than finding a tent. It is far easier to spot a tent (even with camouflage) in comparison to crates, do not forget to mention you can spread those 4 boxes.
 Thats where i see a problem, you said you have "hermit in the woods playstyle" and that i should undestand and respect it, believe me i do. But you should also consider the fact that i'm a "camping" playstyle guy (been that since mod in 2012 really) and right now being that is just pointless. I didn't mention playstyle on earlier posts because there was no point doing that, i just pointed those issues on buried with balancing in mind. Because i don't want buried to go, just want it to be fair. The tittle is "lets talk buried loot" so i pointed out a problem and some possible solutions in which i THINK can work. In the end it is up to the development team to check it an make some change or not, since they do see the bigger picture.