Melee Weapon Petition

[gray1107 (DayZ) 0]

Video of a melee addon i was working on some time ago.

Just to show that melee is possible to a certain extent in arma 2. Animation + Damage based on the position of the target relative to the player.

:D

I'd say that's worth submitting to Rocket, just doesn't make sense not to have melee. This is supposed to be a sim after all, obviously wouldn't expect a katana. It'd be more baseball bats, kitchen knives and fire axes.

[mre 1]

I love the zombie genre and that is why I am here. I know it's only an alpha, but for this type of game to hypothetically only be about the gun play is absurd.

The subtitle for this game should be "If there is a will, there is a way".

I agree there are some circumstances that should always put you on death's door step, but if I'm out ammo and a lone crawler is after me, I'd like to do something about it.

[Kolchak (DayZ) 5]

It's patently ridiculous that this community doesn't wholeheartedly get behind the idea of melee weapons. I've heard the word "Realism" thrown around for the most inane things, but for this, it's completely ignored? Even cavemen had enough sense to know it was better to have a sharp stick for a weapon than to have none at all. Toolboxes have wrenches, and the big ones make for a pretty good skull crushing weapon. Some flash lights are known for being a good makeshift weapon. We carry hunting knives to gut animals, yet we can't jab it into the zombie's face? We're about to get hatchets ffs, don't tell me you wouldn't whip that thing out and start chopping if you ran out of ammo. They don't have to be powerful, or quiet, they just have to be. If there was ever something that needed to be fixed in this game, it's the complete lack of melee weapons.

[maceuk71 1]

No melee in ARMA 2, ARMA noob. Jump off the bandwagon anytime....

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

No melee in ARMA 2' date=' ARMA noob. Jump off the bandwagon anytime....

[/quote']

Who is an Arma noob?

[qla 0]

No melee in ARMA 2' date=' ARMA noob. Jump off the bandwagon anytime....

[/quote']

What is this sorcery!?

[Chalas 1]

Okay. I think I can somewhat agree with the guy above.

I mean' date=' really. Every argument against the melee implementation is quite pointless in the end. There needs to be constructive planning for it, not just bashing it away just because we have many stupid and pointless predictions about it (such as "it'll make the game too easy", "it'll decrease the feeling of surviving", "there's no melee weapons ingame"). We CAN counter those issues here to be honest. It just needs a bit of thinking and good planning, first.

So let me open it all up to you guys:

[b']1: Melee weapons aren't made for menacious killing sprees.

There's games like Left 4 Dead 2, Dead Island, Dead Rising... you name it. They have easily manouvered free style to mow down zombies just by slashing through them as they wouldn't be a serious thing in the end. These games are arcade. These games are meant for casual fun. However, Arma (and well, DayZ) can't be categorized within' these games at all. DayZ is a simulation with zombies, where killing zombies isn't sitting in the main priorities of the whole purpose of it. This isn't a casual game where we can do near impossible acts, such as mowing through a zombie horde just with a baseball bat.

Now think about it again: We've got a fairly heavy fire axe in our hands. Swing it once. Can you feel the nudge of the sweet weight? Swing it again. And once again if you dare. Isn't that just gloriously exhausting? It appears to be, unfortunately. So I've got bad news for you guys; we're not going to mow through a horde with that style at all.

'How about a light knife or similar?' you might ask.

Really, try to kill at least one of those guys who wouldn't seem to feel a thing, if we'd cut it's wrists all open. You may damage it, but you're going to die either way.

My point is that weapons, for real, can't be handled so good that they'd kill loads of zombies just like that. We can't do rapid swings with powerful weapons very well after all. We get exhausted, and our stamina decreases into dangerous levels in various ecounters.

2: Melee will decrease the difficulty of the game... but how much, for real?

What does make it too easy, may I ask? That it kills zombies way too easily, decresing the difficulty by that way? Or that they have "unlimited" use of it and we can just forget about the guns?

Man, do I really need to make a note about that you can think about how THOSE issues can be fixed off?

I just noted how melee weapons can't be used primarily at all, as their mobility level is quite hard to handle. The weapon may be quite powerful if it's a freaking large battleaxe casted into a magical fire spell of deadly gods, but the fact you can't swing it very well due to the weight itself may kill you in the zombie battle already! It needs good timing and aiming skills, where you also have to look out for the dangerous amount of stamina loss (if trying to attack continously).

Melee attacks also can't just kill everything so easily, unless they're very deadly and used extremely well (such as machette being slashed to the head a couple times successfully). How long would it actually take to kill a person with a baseball bat, again? Longer than a couple swings, that's for sure.

In fact we can smash away a zombie to the ground with a well landed hit. If we really want to kill them with melee, we need to be there for a while and keep ourselves smacking them to the ground until they're really dead for sure. That costs stamina and time, which means we can't do the same for two zombies at the same time like it wouldn't be a biggie for us.

Melee is a very bad choice to use as an offensive primary weapon tactic. It is for ecounters where only one zombie is trying to attack you and you need at least some kind of self defence where you can somewhat rely on for the last choice.

Melee shouldn't be easy at all. It's a dangerous way to defend yourself, when nothing else can help you on the way anymore.

Remember the basic law of melee fighting: "If he can hit, be ready to take some too."

3: "Unlimited use", but wooden planks doesn't seem to be made of steel.

Items do have their durabilities. And with some whacking they do get damaged pretty fast, in fact. They will get destroyed, and you can't do anything about it. But, well... exept fix it a bit if you happen to have the tools for it, but I wouldn't rely on them very much after, though.

When we think about our melee 'weapons' as 'tools' and 'items', we may use them as... well. Tools and items. In that kind of use they get their durability decreased over the time, too. At least I would get some temporaly firewood from bushes with my trusty billhook that I found from the cabins.

4: They'll destroy the need of stealth, and they can't be implemented because there's no melee related in-game!

As for need for stealth, see the point 2. It's way wiser to not to get noticed by anyone if you don't have a gun. Melee is just to cover your last try to get away from the zombies, or to dispatch a lonely zombie with no extra noise and conflict if it's on your way (and to do that, you need to have a good melee weapon and some actual skill to do that!).

There's a lot of mods showing off melee weapons for Arma 2. They may, or may not work well in the end, but they show it's implementable. And as how Arma devs stated (to my memory), they're going to support this mod a bit more due to the boost of sales. Why wouldn't they introduce some melee aspects for the game if modders struggle with it? It's not too much to ask I believe, but that's just a 'what if' to drop out for pending answers.

We need to think about the solutions, not to brag about the problems themselves!

We ARE able to plan successful melee mechanic into the game, if we actually plan and think about it. So far we're just rolling around with predictions and opinions, but with no actual solutions for them in the end.

Honestly. I want melee into the game, because it'd create a good immersion to the beginning already. We spawn with NO WEAPONS AT ALL, which is a very damn dangerous thing already. We NEED to find some temporally defense and fast, and them go to scavenge some better equipment to feel safer for youself. This way we actually add more difficulty and satisfying moments to the game, since firearms aren't simply as easy to acquire anymore.

Just think about it.

+1 and reped. It is just realistic to add melee, even if it is limited to stamina/strength (dependent of blood and injuries). the option should be there as a last resort.

[kite 0]

Long thread, and not sure if this was mentioned, but why not add a shove mechanic that knocks a zombie to the ground? No animation required (unless you want to add it) just show the result of the Zed going down for beta. Zombie goes down a little dazed and has to get up allowing you a little space to run away. Make it so that it affects only one target and it takes a second to do it so that it's risky if there are multiples but maybe could buy you some time.

[SilverWeed 0]

Have never played a PvP shooter with melee combat reliable enough that I'd want to lose my DayZ head to kids going kamikaze with knives (there are entire COD montages dedicated to knives and their superiority over guns which most I'm sure are well aware of).

Would be nice to kill livestock with the hunting knife though.

[Bandit Hunter 29]

It'd be nice to have this option.

[clever 12]

The Arma Engine cannot support melee weapons, when zombies go near you they aren't hitting you with a melee, I'm pretty sure they just have a script that deals damage to you when they're very close.

[cryover 0]

I support+ this idea but i think it will need 3 things:

Stamina bar(for swings)

Durability(100%)(can be repaired with some scrap metal and toolbox)

Kill Zombies with 3 hits(don't do damage against player or another idea is need to hit 10 times) I mean not worthy hitting someone with it because of the delay to swing and the low damage).

here some things to explain my point:

So you are not going to use to kill a horde or are you dumb?:-/

It will be really useful against one by one(i mean you x zombie):D

it don't need to be silent i think silent its to OP.:s

If you think it's still OP then you need to stop going to this thread,really

:sleepy:

And if you are going to complain my english then don't say it(because i'm still studying it ^^).:P

[filaz 1]

I think that only will be added in Arma 3 Day Z mod

because in Arma 2 not even animation or melee atack support

but I agree with melee weapons since that in realistic way

breakable and the zombie melee damage be bigger

[septuscap 42]

again ... arma doesnt support melee ... and also .. we dont want a hack and slash zombie game ... no offense but pls try figuring the game and engine out before just jumping in with suggestions

Dude.

I have played since OFP. I know how the game and engine works.

I also know that Rocket is a BIS developer.

If anyone can put it into this game' date=' it's Rocket.

So please don't embarass yourself further by being a jerk.

[/quote']

^ this made my day, love seeing wannabes put in their place.

[Vigil Vindex 8]

I think a reverse bandage melee type attack would be cool, so if you sneak up behind someone you can do a silent kill, just use the same mechanism as applying bandages but have it reduce health instead of increasing it. Can call it garrote or something.

[Kolchak (DayZ) 5]

In case people keep thinking arma cannot support melee, it can. Any program that lets you code a ranged weapon, will let you code a melee weapon. All you do is cut the weapons range to say 3 feet for a knife, 4 feet for a wrench or a hammer, ect. Then instead of having it reduce your ammo count, you have it reduce your stamina, or since 'realism' keeps being thrown around, the weapon's durability.

[milasiusa@gmail.com 0]

Melee in ArmA 2 is possible but it is pain in the ass.

Not only you need to create somekind of short range weapon, but you also need to create animations for melee.

It would take alot of time from the devs. I'd say no melee for now

[septuscap 42]

Have never played a PvP shooter with melee combat reliable enough that I'd want to lose my DayZ head to kids going kamikaze with knives (there are entire COD montages dedicated to knives and their superiority over guns which most I'm sure are well aware of).

Would be nice to kill livestock with the hunting knife though.

Those montages aren't of knives being superior to guns, but of the skill of the player who is managing to kill armed opponents with a knife.

I do know one person who decided not to play this mod as he thought being helpless without ammo was unrealistic and stupid, but it's safe to say it's an insignificant # of people -- there are much more important things to implement I think.

[tunedbeats 0]

Realism or not, the lack of melee is a GOOD thing in my book.

It makes survival that much more intense and hard. Out of bullets? Well you're screwed and you'd better run. If you still have relative good melee then people won't care anymore, making the game 'dumber'

So I say NO to melee.

[mrrussell 0]

I remember the Island Life and such had a melee function of sorts...

It basically looked like you threw a grenade but it was actually a form of less-than-lethal stun....

So maybe there is a base

[Comrade Sniper 3]

There should be serious repercussions to melee if it ever gets added' date=' such as weapon durability and some kind of infection system where if you get too much blood on you you need meds or an injection or something along those lines.

[/quote']

I agree. I wouldn't like melee much in the first place, but if it is added there must be factors such as the above added to make players seriously think before using their melee weapons.

[pyrokinetiq 1]

I think melee should be viable as a last resort. It should come with a high risk of getting raped by zombies while you attempt to kill them.

[Pocket4s 6]

I agree. I wouldn't like melee much in the first place' date=' but if it is added there must be factors such as the above added to make players seriously think before using their melee weapons.

[/quote']

The game already has those features? Hand to hand combat with zombies results in blood loss, broken bones, being knocked unconscious, and now infections.

Melee would already be vastly inferior to ranged combat and very dangerous without any new features or alterations at all.

[Haiiro 1]

I don't know a ton about arma mods but a melee weapon is just like any other weapon but with a custom animation and a very short weapon range, no?

The people worried about balancing, while you are in range to stab a zombie they are also in range to hit you and you're gonna pretty much aggro everything in the vicinity. If a zombie takes two stabs before it gets taken down there's a pretty high chance you'll be bleeding out at that point. It just makes more sense that if you run out of bullets and have a hunting knife on you you'll use that instead of standing there with a sheepy look in your eyes while a zombie smacks you to death.

Granted, you could run away but there's not really a proper way of outrunning them so having a knife(if you found one somewhere) to take care of one or two zombies as a last resort seems like a decent enough idea.

[SnowyMatt 0]

Another option would be a move similar to the "shove" in Left 4 Dead. Maybe it would deduct a small amount of stamina every time. At the very least it would allow you SOME option instead of just being defenseless.