Rebalance Ammo

[atempleton 123]

Simple changes that make sense that balance ammunition carry space and capacity whilst being realistic:

.308 Winchester - Maximum stacks of 20 to balance with 7.62x54mmR.

7.62x39mm - Maximum stacks of 30 to balance with other assault rifle cartridges. Will also make drum mags less economical.

12 Gauge - Maximum stacks of 20 to balance with .308.

30 Round STANAG (Coupled) - Change dimensions to 2x2 to account for the fact it's two magazines and make the carrying less economical.

[star-lord252 83]

I don't really see the need but what REALLY needs to be balanced for ammo is were they spawn.

1-12 gauge needs to be a little bit more common there civilian rounds they need to spawn more in civilian homes.

2-7.62×39 should spawn rarely in civilian homes there's a good amount of civilian rifles that chamber this round(SKS is both military and civilian)

3-45 acp should spawn extremely rarely in civilian homes there's a lot of 1911s.

4-slugs should come back in again and have its box of ammo(10 rounds of slugs).

The stanag coupled thing really should be changed doesn't make sense though we don't have to worry about seeing no 60rd mag anymore the m4 dual drum should come in soon.

Edited June 22, 2015 by DaNic2553

[Evil Minion 943]

I don't really see the need

Full power rounds are more powerful at the cost of increased size, weight and recoil. That's why in most modern army standard rifleman are eqipped with low caliber or intermediate rounds.

 

To represent this stack size and weight (heavier from left to right) should be adjusted:

• 15 - 12 gauge
• 20 - .308 Winchester and 7.62x54mmR
• 25 - 7.62x39mmR, 9x39mm
• 30 - 5.45x39mm, 5.56x45mm
• 40 - .380 Auto, 9mm, .45 ACP
• 50 - .22LR

In terms of hit value (which in some way translates into damage) the .45 ACP round is way too strong and should be closer to 9mm. I propose reducing the hit value from 9 to 7.5. Also weapons should feature muzzle velocity according to their real life counterparts which might also affect ammo balance.

 

And finally rarity. The 7.62x39 round being an exclusively military round gimps several lower tier weapons completely. Same with .45 ACP rounds. Both should spawn in civilian or hunting locations as well although not in great numbers. This should actually be a general thing to smooth out ammo possession - maybe increase magazine spawns while decreasing box spawns and make stacks spawn much smaller on average.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Evil Minion

[OnionOfShame 138]

I agree with most of your points on stack size rebalancing, except the .308 Winchester. The Winchester rounds are smaller and weaker than 7.62x54mmR, and should therefore stack higher (to 25 or 30 maybe).

Full power rounds are more powerful at the cost of increased size, weight and recoil. That's why in most modern army standard rifleman are eqipped with low caliber or intermediate rounds.

To represent this stack size and weight (heavier from left to right) should be adjusted:

• 15 - 12 gauge
• 20 - .308 Winchester and 7.62x54mmR
• 25 - 7.62x39mmR, 9x39mm
• 30 - 5.45x39mm, 5.56x45mm
• 40 - .380 Auto, 9mm, .45 ACP
• 50 - .22LR

In terms of hit value (which in some way translates into damage) the .45 ACP round is way too strong and should be closer to 9mm. I propose reducing the hit value from 9 to 7.5. Also weapons should feature muzzle velocity according to their real life counterparts which might also affect ammo balance.

And finally rarity. The 7.62x39 round being an exclusively military round gimps several lower tier weapons completely. Same with .45 ACP rounds. Both should spawn in civilian or hunting locations as well although not in great numbers. This should actually be a general thing to smooth out ammo possession - maybe increase magazine spawns while decreasing box spawns and make stacks spawn much smaller on average.

Most of these stack sizes are good, except for shotgun shells (should be 20 in my opinion) and the .308 (as explained above) in my opinion. I disagree with you on the .45 ammunition's power, in real life these rounds can easily kill a person in a single shot and this should be reflected in-game. I agree with your points on ammunition distribution though. There's no point in the IZH-18 or CR527 existing at all as the ammunition is nearly impossible to find for them without going to military bases, at which point you're likely to have the SKS which is pretty much objectively superior (but if you think about it the SKS shouldn't even spawn in military locations because it wouldn't really be in service anymore, but I digress).

[Evil Minion 943]

While .308 Winchester is slightly smaller than 7.62x54mmR the difference is pretty marginal and doesn't really justify a different stack size (unless .308 Winchester gets 21 round stacks which would be pretty odd). The lower power (~5% less also not that much) might also come with slightly lower recoil. 12 gauge is much broader than both so I think stacks of 15 are justified.

 

.45 ACP is hyped. 9mm rounds can also easily kill a person in a single shot. .45 ACP might be a little more powerful (it seems performance data overlaps so you can also find .45 ACP rounds weaker than more powerful 9mm ones) but much closer to 9mm than to the way more powerful .357 Magnum. In Dayz a shot from a Colt 1911 is somehow just as powerful as a shot from a Repeater which is hardly authentic.

[star-lord252 83]

Full power rounds are more powerful at the cost of increased size, weight and recoil. That's why in most modern army standard rifleman are eqipped with low caliber or intermediate rounds.

To represent this stack size and weight (heavier from left to right) should be adjusted:

• 15 - 12 gauge
• 20 - .308 Winchester and 7.62x54mmR
• 25 - 7.62x39mmR, 9x39mm
• 30 - 5.45x39mm, 5.56x45mm
• 40 - .380 Auto, 9mm, .45 ACP
• 50 - .22LR

In terms of hit value (which in some way translates into damage) the .45 ACP round is way too strong and should be closer to 9mm. I propose reducing the hit value from 9 to 7.5. Also weapons should feature muzzle velocity according to their real life counterparts which might also affect ammo balance.

And finally rarity. The 7.62x39 round being an exclusively military round gimps several lower tier weapons completely. Same with .45 ACP rounds. Both should spawn in civilian or hunting locations as well although not in great numbers. This should actually be a general thing to smooth out ammo possession - maybe increase magazine spawns while decreasing box spawns and make stacks spawn much smaller on average.

agreed the stacks of ammo could be changed higher(I can stuff 40 9mm in my pocket not that hard. As for the 45 acp that should be changed it is way to powerful the kings of handguns damage wise should be the revolver or the upcoming desert eagle. Edited June 23, 2015 by DaNic2553

[-Gews- 7443]

It makes sense ammo should be balanced by weight, size or both.

From heaviest to lightest:

12ga 2-3/4 = 46.5 g

.308 = 24.5 g

9x39 = 23.5 g

7.62x54R = 22.8 g

.45 ACP = 21.3

7.62x39 = 16.4 g

357 Mag = 16.2 g

9x19 = 12.3

5.56x45 = 12.2 g

5.45x39= 10.3 g

.380 = 9.5 g

.22 LR = 3.3 g

So if we say 1 square allows us 20 .308 cartridges, by weight we should have:

10 x 12-gauge cartridges

22 x 7.62x54R cartridges

30 x 7.62x39 cartridges

30 x .357 Magnum cartridges

20 x 9x39 cartridges

40 x 5.56x45 cartridges

48 x 5.45x39 cartridges

22 x .45 ACP cartridges

40 x 9x19 cartridges

52 x .380 ACP cartridges

148 x .22 LR cartridges

We could round that to

10 x 12-gauge

20 x 7.62x54R, .308, 9x39, .45 ACP

30 x 7.62x39, .357 Magnum

40 x 5.56x45, 9x19

50 x 5.45x39, .380 ACP

150 x .22 LR

But I guess there's also the space to consider. Volume, high to low, taking each cartridge as a cylinder* (case base dia. x C.O.L.)

12ga 2-3/4 = 19.4 cm³

7.62x54R = 9.3 cm³

7.62x51 = 8.1 cm³

9x39 = 5.7 cm³

7.62x39 = 5.7 cm³

5.45x39= 4.5 cm³

5.56x45 = 4.2 cm³

.45 ACP = 3.7 cm³

357 Mag = 2.9 cm³

9x19 = 2.3 cm³

.380 = 1.8 cm³

.22 LR = 0.66 cm³

And that by itself would give us:

8 x 12-gauge

18 x 7.62x54R

28 x 7.62x39

28 x 9x39

36 x 5.45x39

38 x 5.56x45

44 x .45 ACP

56 x .357 Magnum

70 x 9x19

90 x .380

245 .22 LR

*for simplicity's sake. A .308 cartridge has an actual volume of approx. 5.6 cm³.

Which combined would look something like this if we're basing this on 20-round stacks of .308:

10 x 12-gauge

20 x .308, 7.62x54R

25 x 9x39

30 x 7.62x39

25-30 x 45 ACP

30-40 x .357 Mag

35-40 x 5.56x45

40-45 x 5.45x39

40-50 x 9x19

50-60 x .380

100-200 x .22 LR

[gibonez 3633]

imo it should be based on weight not category.

 

203 grain .45 acp should stack at lower numbers than 40 grain .22lr

[Evil Minion 943]

I think it should rather be based on volume as weight is a different value and basing stack size on weight might make it "count twice".