depth and choice with weapons

[harryzhe 28]

This might be something you're already planning and i realise it's a content-demanding suggestion.

Luckily i'm a 3d artist and if you (the team) are reading this and like where i'm going with this i'm more than happy to help provide the content to make it happen.

Firstly, the 1866 winchester is a bit weird. It obviously shouldnt be firing shotgun shells but I gather the devs already know that, and the '66 was just something they had access to.

I'd suggest bulking out the shotgun lineup instead with a single barrel break-open gun, maybe in .410, an over-under gun in 12 guage and something like a winchester 9410 or one of the marlin lever guns if they make them to fire buckshot... I assume they do.

On top of this i feel there's a distinct lack of .22 in the game. From all accounts, it's a great survival round for hitting small game, easy to carry in vast quantities and produces relatively little muzzle report. In the partisan's handbook, published by the soviets in the 40s, the .22 is recommended for sentry removal.

Most bolt action .22s would be a perfect fit for this - they'd take different magazine sizes, have different loadings, and maybe the possibility of finding one with a cheap scope mounted on it. Maybe one of the winchester 5x range would be a good pick.

A ruger 10/22 would be great as the next tier up. Same deal, but semi auto.

Then you could have a pistol, either a colt woodsman or a ruger mk1-3.

.22 would add a great new dimension and the option of sacrificing some stopping power for discretion. It would also give a great civillian-y feel to the game.

Aside from this, i think most roles in the game are filled weapon wise. There's always room for more variants on the same basic thing, like something firing a bigger cartridge than the CZ maybe, or a CZ without a scope, or maybe something firing .22 hornet or magnum, or 6.5... i dunno

If you wanted to go into mad detail you could have different effects when you shoot game with them. A massive, energetic cartridge would leave you with not-that-much rabbit left, but would be great for shooting bandits or zombies. It also wouldn't be a great pick for urban expeditions. Similar to how currently, a scoped rifle is great in the field but not so great in the urban spots as a self defense tool. There could be a third kind of dimension to that - whether you want to opt for a true "survival rifle" which will do a great job of keeping your belly full at the cost of magazine capacity or in the case of .22, stopping power.

Air rifles would be an excellent half-way point between a .22 and a crossbow too. The obvious problem they present is how you handle ammo. My suggestion would be each "magazine" for it being a tin of pellets and firing single shots only. I have wonderful visions of quietly popping a few into a z's head from not-so-far-away before entering whatever barn he might be standing out the front of.

Finally, i suppose a kind of anti-suggestion.

I suggest avoiding focus on fullauto weapons wherever you can. So far the mod does this wonderfully. I havent read extensively all the suggestion threads but I hope if there are any significant numbers asking for more military style or fully automatic small arms, they are pretty much ignored. This game has a really unique atmosphere going on, and is probably the only true zombie "survival" game i've ever played. Kudos. And from the interview i read with rocket... Man to man, you're a completely sick dude in my books. Your philosophy seems spot on.

Again, if the team wants to make any of this happen and needs the manpower, do hit me up. I have worked with the arma engine before, i know how to get models and rvmats and all that going, from experience working on australians at war - which i guess maybe a lot of the mod team have played around with themselves. I would be happy to help if there's any need.

[dut 21]

Yes. I really hope you get on the DayZ team you seem to know your stuff. Single shot, break open and bolt action are exactly the direction DayZ should be taking.

I would suggest you look at Toz .22's and converted k98k .22s instead of american brands though. Break open shotguns are so generic you can't even tell one brand from the other but there are eastern european and asian brands that would probably make it to chernarus.

obligatory mention of SKS and Nagants

[harryzhe 28]

I'm familiar with the ToZ. That in fact, was the exact family of weapon referred to in the literature i mentioned. They made a couple of models. I think the book referred to the 8 mostly.

An SKS would be great, but i question the relevance of a nagant when an enfield is already in. It's pretty much close enough, gameplay wise

[dut 21]

It was obligatory because I know they will be brought up over and over again. I do agree about the SKS though, it is a nice in-between rifle.

[oxysplatter 0]

Love the idea of .22.

[hexik 1]

Good luck! The winchester is pretty weird and guns like the Enfield should have to be bolted but you can just shoot it semi auto anyway, its odd.

[harryzhe 28]

afaik "manual bolting" cant really be done in arma. You can animate it to operate the bolt like in i44 but its apparently a bit tricky.

I suppose seeing as the team seem pretty savvy with animation in the arma engine, they might be able to pull something off

[Duckman404 37]

Just my two cents, I'd like to see the Winchester 1866 replaced with the Winchester Model 1887. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1887/1901

It's actually a real life lever action shotgun, but with a 5 round capacity rather than 15 that the 1866 somehow magically has. For how common and effective it is, and how easy it is to find ammo for, the 1866 could do with some nerfing.

As for variety in bolt action weapons, I'd love to see the Enfield become a rarer weapon and have the Mosin Nagant (if models can be found, and ammunition can be added) become the more common bolt action, since it's much more common to europe in general, has half the capacity of the Lee Enfield, has a slower action, and is still pretty damn loud.

.22 LR would be very nice to see in this game, especially if there was a rare suppressed handgun or rifle for it (using SD ammo, of course), since it would be very, very quiet. The CZ 452 would make a nice addition, since it's big brother the CZ 550 is already in the game.

And I know that adding more weapons and balancing current ones is pretty low priority, which is why I'm curious about the current ammo system: does anyone know if it's possible to change to a more flexible way of managing ammo? I'd love to be able to use those .45 ACP revolver rounds to top up my empty M1911 mags, but from what I've seen ARMA II makes that very difficult. Before adding a plethora of new weapons, I'd personally prefer to see a better ammo system implemented, if it's even possible.

[harryzhe 28]

Just my two cents' date=' I'd like to see the Winchester 1866 replaced with the Winchester Model 1887. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1887/1901

It's actually a real life lever action shotgun, but with a 5 round capacity rather than 15 that the 1866 somehow magically has. For how common and effective it is, and how easy it is to find ammo for, the 1866 could do with some nerfing.[/quote']

I kind of disagree with implementing an 1887. It's an antique by now, but the 9410 is produced in our times. There's a chinese repro of the 87 which gets exported, but not to europe.

Speaking of - If we want to assume eastern europe, it would be great to add as a rare bit of loot, a browning auto-5. They were marketed at least in russia and I'm sure plenty found their way to all eastern europe.

And I know that adding more weapons and balancing current ones is pretty low priority' date=' which is why I'm curious about the current ammo system: does anyone know if it's possible to change to a more flexible way of managing ammo? I'd love to be able to use those .45 ACP revolver rounds to top up my empty M1911 mags, but from what I've seen ARMA II makes that very difficult. Before adding a plethora of new weapons, I'd personally prefer to see a better ammo system implemented, if it's even possible.

[/quote']

Some kind of interface to transfer ammo from magazine to magazine would be great.... Imagine if once we expended a mag it gave us an empty one. I wish items could stack up in the inventory still only taking one space, individual rounds and empty mags should take up next to nothing.

[Duckman404 37]

(Today 02:20 PM)HarryO))) Wrote: I kind of disagree with implementing an 1887. It's an antique by now, but the 9410 is produced in our times. There's a chinese repro of the 87 which gets exported, but not to europe.

I have to agree there, I just don't want to see the 1866 model to go waste! I suppose it wouldn't be a stretch to have it 'rechambered' in .44 Russian (thus allowing it to retain the high capacity), and throw in some S&W Model 3 revolvers in for ammunition compatibility. As far as I'm aware, Russia was quite fond of the Model 3, and the older lever guns saw some popularity in Europe before high powered bolt actions stole the spotlight.

The 9410 sure looks like an interesting piece, though, and since it uses the .410 bore shells, it'd make for a (relatively) quiet gun like the 1866 is currently. It'd also mean that .410/.22 LR combination guns could be put in the game, which would be a boon for those who like to conserve their ammo.

(Today 02:20 PM)HarryO))) Wrote: Speaking of - If we want to assume eastern europe, it would be great to add as a rare bit of loot, a browning auto-5. They were marketed at least in russia and I'm sure plenty found their way to all eastern europe.

I'd love to see the Auto-5 around, too! Such a beautiful rifle. I'm not too familiar with what guns are popular to eastern europe specifically (being an Australian), but I imagine finding the occasional SVT-40 wouldn't be unreasonable either.

Having the SVT-40 and the Mosin Nagant included would work nicely, since they both share the 7.62x54R round and can be fed with stripper clips, and give a more rural atmosphere to the game by adding a semi-auto rifle that isn't a modern piece. Same goes for the SKS, I'd love to see that become a low-tier weapon to find.

(Today 02:20 PM)HarryO))) Wrote: Some kind of interface to transfer ammo from magazine to magazine would be great.... Imagine if once we expended a mag it gave us an empty one. I wish items could stack up in the inventory still only taking one space, individual rounds and empty mags should take up next to nothing.

The way I see it working is loose rounds or boxes can be stacked together, for example 20 or 30 rounds of 9mm taking up one grid space, while empty magazines might be able to fit 2 into one grid because they weigh less.

It'd work nicer than having 6 lee enfield magazines with anywhere between 1 to 10 rounds in each: since lee enfields were meant to use 5 round stripper clips, you could have stacks of 2 clips per grid space.

The best way I can see transferring rounds from one ammo source to another (e.g. a box of .45 ACP to an empty M1911 mag) is by having a right click menu implemented on the inventory.

So, right click on the empty magazine, select 'Load magazine', then be able to select the box of .45 rounds or another magazine.

Having this should also let us see just how many rounds are in a magazine: at the moment, I'm not reloading until I've shot my last round, because I don't want to waste inventory space with magazines that only have 1 or 2 shots left.

I really don't know what ARMA II's limitations are in this regards, but I think if the game is to have a greater variety of weapons than it has right now, it needs a much better system for managing ammunition.

[harryzhe 28]

Er, i wrote a huge reply but something broke and it just turned to a quote of your post.

[wolfsburg62 66]

+1 on this, I agree, I would like to see different types of shot shell too. Imagine killing that pesty bandit hiding in the grass with flichette rounds or even bolo rounds :) FUN!!!

[harryzhe 28]

Ok, writing it up again. If i sound like i'm being short with you i promise it's not intentional, i'm just frustrated that i have to write it all out again and probably being a little frank to save time.

I have to agree there' date=' I just don't want to see the 1866 model to go waste![/quote']

Ah, i see your intention was good then. Only thing is the '66 and '87 are totally different recievers. '66 looks like a henry with a side loading port but '87 is another thing altogether.

S&W Model 3 revolvers

&c.

The S&W the russians used wasn't a schofield but a specifically designed "russian model" which had a slightly shorter barrel and a cool looking spur on the trigger guard. It'd be a nice addition and maybe something of a prestige item to carry around a black powder revolver - but i have no idea how many are still in civilian hands IRL.

The 9410 sure looks like an interesting piece' date=' though, and since it uses the .410 bore shells, it'd make for a (relatively) quiet gun like the 1866 is currently. It'd also mean that .410/.22 LR combination guns could be put in the game, which would be a boon for those who like to conserve their ammo.[/quote']

YES. cf. my first post, on "survival guns" being recognisable for their purpose. Itd be great to have a guess at someone's background and general activities by what they arm themselves with. A guy with a pure hunting rifle might be recognisable mostly as a survivalist rather than an antagonist... Or that might just be what he wants you to think :D

I'd love to see the Auto-5 around' date=' too! Such a beautiful rifle. I'm not too familiar with what guns are popular to eastern europe specifically (being an Australian), but I imagine finding the occasional SVT-40 wouldn't be unreasonable either.[/quote']

It's a shotgun, but that's ok :)

I'm aus too. South of melbourne. I just educate myself on this a lot because it helps make my er... "art" more authentic.

SVT40 would be real nice but again, i have no idea how many would be in civilian hands now. The sks would be all over the place though.

The other thing about the SVT is i question how much depth it would be introducing. It would behave pretty close to an FAL but with a bit more stopping power and noise i guess.

The way I see it working is loose rounds or boxes can be stacked together' date=' for example 20 or 30 rounds of 9mm taking up one grid space, while empty magazines might be able to fit 2 into one grid because they weigh less.[/quote']

IIRC i've never seen this done in an arma mod. That's the only reason I'm not already suggesting it in a new thread. I do have faith in the scripters' skills though. I'm sure they'll think of something.

---

flichette rounds or even bolo rounds

Er... Sure. While we're at it let's put in an enfield EM2.

My point being these rounds aren't likely to be found in civilian or military hands in our time.

[Duckman404 37]

Ok' date=' writing it up again. If i sound like i'm being short with you i promise it's not intentional, i'm just frustrated that i have to write it all out again and probably being a little frank to save time.

[/quote']

That's okay, I almost had the same thing happen to me: it's why I always copy to clipboard the whole post I'm about to make before doing anything!

The S&W the russians used wasn't a schofield but a specifically designed "russian model" which had a slightly shorter barrel and a cool looking spur on the trigger guard. It'd be a nice addition and maybe something of a prestige item to carry around a black powder revolver - but i have no idea how many are still in civilian hands IRL.

I know it's not exactly the same' date=' since the .44 Russian looks a tad more awesome than the Model 3...

It'd just make a nice, rare loot item, since .44 Russian would be a little more common if the 1866 were made to use that instead of 12 gauge shells. Less powerful than the .45 ACP guns, but better than your Makarov, and I suppose the smoke that the old black powder rounds belched would make some good cover to run away in :P

YES. cf. my first post, on "survival guns" being recognisable for their purpose. Itd be great to have a guess at someone's background and general activities by what they arm themselves with. A guy with a pure hunting rifle might be recognisable mostly as a survivalist rather than an antagonist... Or that might just be what he wants you to think :D

It's a shotgun, but that's ok :)

I'm aus too. South of melbourne. I just educate myself on this a lot because it helps make my er... "art" more authentic.

SVT40 would be real nice but again, i have no idea how many would be in civilian hands now. The sks would be all over the place though.

Ah, my mistake, for some strange reason I was thinking of the Rem Model 8, which I doubt would be as common: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_8

The Auto-5 would make a nice addition as a higher grade shotgun, while having double barrel hunting shotguns as a replacement for the 1866.

The SVT-40 was actually fairly common in Russia and the surrounding states after the war, and they're even pretty cheaply available in Canada. They're definitely going to show up a lot more than the Lee Enfield... and I don't even know why that rifle is in DayZ instead of the Mosin Nagant. I guess that's all the devs had to work with?

The SKS would be great to have, since if they somehow included an ammo system as I described earlier, using loose ammunition salvaged from AK mags would mean it'd be great to carry around in military zones.

It ought to be a little more accurate and possibly more powerful than the AK (longer barrel, action is more accurately built), but with the 10 round internal magazine you'd need to reload it more often.

I'm in South Australia, also quite interested in firearms, although more from a mechanical aspect than anything else. Working on getting my gun license, hoping to pick up a Lee Enfield of my very own sometime soon!

The other thing about the SVT is i question how much depth it would be introducing. It would behave pretty close to an FAL but with a bit more stopping power and noise i guess.

The SVT has a smaller capacity' date=' too, with only 10 rounds per magazine. It's [i']very noisy, thanks to the muzzle break (and should definitely be louder than the Lee Enfield), and I remember reading that it isn't accurate enough for DMR / Sniping (thus it'd only use iron sights), so the FAL would have the upper hand in accuracy as well.

[regarding ammunition management]

I do have faith in the scripters' skills though. I'm sure they'll think of something.

If I knew where to start or what I was doing' date=' I'd try and work on something to fix this myself. I'd probably have a crack at the backpack system, too, since I've lost an entire Enfield and half a dozen magazines due to how it currently 'works' :dodgy:

It just bothers me that:

1) I can't use the .45 ACP revolver ammunition in a 1911, or that I can't take the 9mm rounds from an MP5 magazine and use them with my Beretta.

2) I can't tell how many rounds are left in the magazines / 'clips' that I've reloaded or picked up.

3) Things like crossbow bolts take up an entire grid for themselves. I know they're re-useable, but you should be able to hold two or three in the same space you can fit a 30 round AK magazine.

[hr']

flichette rounds or even bolo rounds

Er... Sure. While we're at it let's put in an enfield EM2.

My point being these rounds aren't likely to be found in civilian or military hands in our time.

While I agree that there's no reason for such rounds to exist in DayZ, it did give me an idea.

Improvised weapons, like .22 zip guns, or single barrel shotguns made from steel pipe, and things like wax slugs or shells loaded with carpenter's nails and propelled by crude black powder wouldn't be too far fetched.

Obviously I'd prefer to see an inclusion of weapons that actually exist, not to mention a dire need for melee weapons, before we start throwing in things like the Bastard Gun from Metro 2033...

[harryzhe 28]

The SVT-40 was actually fairly common in Russia and the surrounding states after the war' date=' and they're even pretty cheaply available in Canada. They're definitely going to show up a lot more than the Lee Enfield... and I don't even know why that rifle is in DayZ instead of the Mosin Nagant. I guess that's all the devs had to work with?[/quote']

You're right. The enfield is from arrowhead, where it has every reason to be implemented. Tons of them would be in afghanistan and pakistan from when the brits had their dick in the country (apart from that i'm sure there'd be plenty of very convincing pakistani knockoffs of that rifle... they do amazing things)

[Duckman404 37]

You're right. The enfield is from arrowhead' date=' where it has every reason to be implemented. Tons of them would be in afghanistan and pakistan from when the brits had their dick in the country (apart from that i'm sure there'd be plenty of very convincing pakistani knockoffs of that rifle... they do amazing things)

[/quote']

Aah, that makes sense then. I hope they can shoehorn the Mosin into the game, though, and have the Enfield become less ubiquitous: it really has no place in eastern europe. Hell, even the Mauser 98 would be a more common rifle around there...

[harryzhe 28]

i'd make them a mosin if they ever responded to my mails...

[dut 21]

i'd make them a mosin if they ever responded to my mails...

best thing to do would be the few simple models you mentioned and post pictures here, it worked for the guy with the zombie reskin. Single shot break open shotgun would take me an hour to texture and model in 3dsmax, in p3d it would take me a day.

and birdshot would be funny to have in game, where i'm from it is more common than buckshot or slugs.

[harryzhe 28]

Single shot break open shotgun would take me an hour to texture and model in 3dsmax' date=' in p3d it would take me a day.[/quote']

Lol, no. I try to do things with reasonable quality.

Here's some of my stuff in arma2 engine.

http://harrysite.net/work/images/20110427184205_sw10.jpg

http://harrysite.net/work/images/20110427163153_fmg_render.jpg

http://harrysite.net/work/images/20110428042550_render_92f.jpg

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6435/carbine1.jpg

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7875/carbine2.jpg

[callumaus@gmail.com 0]

Single shot break open shotgun would take me an hour to texture and model in 3dsmax' date=' in p3d it would take me a day.[/quote']

Lol, no. I try to do things with reasonable quality.

Here's some of my stuff in arma2 engine.

http://harrysite.net/work/images/20110427184205_sw10.jpg

http://harrysite.net/work/images/20110427163153_fmg_render.jpg

http://harrysite.net/work/images/20110428042550_render_92f.jpg

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6435/carbine1.jpg

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7875/carbine2.jpg

Loving your ideas Harry, and your work seems great. I'd love to see you pull off a mosin or some kind of .22

[harryzhe 28]

Loving your ideas Harry' date=' and your work seems great. I'd love to see you pull off a mosin or some kind of .22

[/quote']

I'll have to manage to get the attention of the devs first...

[dut 21]

I was thinking last night about how break open weapons would work without having the same problem as the crossbow (one arrow takes one inventory space because of how ArmA uses magazines)

For single shot break open guns it isn't really a problem, just have an 8 round 'magazine' and make the pause between shots a few seconds long with a break open animation then make reloading after the 8 shots take the same amount of time. I can't work out double barrel guns though, how do you make it pause between 2 shots without having 2 round 'magazines' ?

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=12338

I'll have a look at this tonight and see if he managed it.

[harryzhe 28]

i suspect the double guns would be do-able with some script. IF they can make every nth shot a tracer im sure they can delay every nth shot.

I agree with the idea re: a kind of "bandolier" with maybe 20 rounds in it!

[rocket 16567]

YES

EMAIL: DAYZDEVTEAM@GMAIL.COM

I WILL REPLY WITH DETAILS

[harryzhe 28]

a reply! and from the man himself. Shot you an email. I cant wait to talk it over.