Thoughts on Blood.

[hazzwold 4]

TL;DR at the bottom.

I would like to bring up a topic which I think needs to be addressed and I would appreciate feedback from players and would be thrilled to hear from the developers their plans if any on this matter. 

Blood. Not gore, just blood. A integral part of the DayZ genre. Blood both as an effect and a mechanic is one of the cornerstones of this game and if properly executed could add such an amount of dynamic, atmosphere and value to existing mechanics to the game. This thread aims to detail the ways in which such a feature could be visualized and executed. I do hope the developers do not underestimate the value that well implemented blood would have on this game. I mean that in a thoroughly respectful manner, speaking only as someone deeply in love with the concept of DayZ.
 

 

Survival & Tracking: wounded animals, wounded players, if a relatively severe wound is left unbandaged they should bleed until hemostasis kicks in, possibly a couple minutes would suffice. This would allow both tracking of players/animals if you fail to kill them and could be integrated into the zombie AI for them to follow the (scent of?)blood. 
even something similar to footprints with a longer lifetime.
A bonus to this would be allowing blood bags to be pierced and produce the same effect, lure people/zombies into a trap. Perhaps it could operate on a scent mechanic that would also allow guts to be used as for zombie attraction, effigies and such, though that strays a bit from the topic at hand. 

Combat: People bleed, people who get shot bleed. Not only is it more satisfying to shoot something and know that it hit it due to the blood that came out than it is to shoot something that just goes into ragdoll without any blood, but it can also be extremely useful on combat situations as a visual indicator that your bullet landed and it definitely hurt what it hit. While Arma 2 does blood effects far better than Arma 3 (not really an opinion since Arma 3 doesn't really have blood effects), it is still far from perfect, I make that comparision because Standalone basically uses Arma 2's blood effects. This ties in again with the tracking, wounded people fleeing a fight do have a chance to be tracked. 

Immersion & Aesthetics: It's a horror survival game, there are people running around infected with an adrenaline fueled rage inducing virus, they bite, claw, scratch, kick, punch and these thing generally draw blood. It may be beyond the games tech to do blood stained clothes effectively but blood drips, pooling on the ground, etc should all come into play. It just makes sense.

Horror elements: This would also assist the psychological elements of murder/cannibalism, without adding immersion breaking mechanics or remorse or sanity. Merely making the processes of cutting up and eating people mildly traumatic should suffice. Blood, guts and disgusting sounds as you cut them open and so on, not really my scene so I can't really expand on this. The thought is quite unsettling. Eugene stated that firing guns should be a mildly traumatic event once audio is finalized, so should be the case for murdering and eating people. This does extend into Audio and such but is still Blood related.

Health: Your life is measured by the amount of blood you have in you, that is at the heart of DayZ, it only makes sense to add visual cues to blood loss outside of post-process effects blurring your vision. 

Examples of some dynamics this adds to the game...
-You walk into a house, find a dead player lying on the ground, Makarov in hand, blood on the ceiling, you've stumbled upon a suicide.

-You find a dead player on the ground, gun in hand, wounds indicate they where shot, the blood is still there/fresh, the killers may still be around. (this could expand into the hiding bodies mechanic) Did they want you to find the body? Is it a trap? Was it self defense?

-You walk into a house, no bodies but a trail of blood leading to a room. Someone wounded inside perhaps? maybe a trap? Maybe someone poured blood on the ground with a blood bag, lured a zombie or two into the room and locked them in? Do you dare investigate or do you turn and run?

-Zombies would be more likely to wander towards areas where death has occurred (scent mechanic)

-Gutting players or animals may and not washing the blood off of you may make you more noticeable by infected. 

 

Summary: 

 

New/Improved mechanics

-Bleeding - Visualised by visable blood trails/blood pooling -  hemostasis chance is reduced by medication like aspirin - bleeding inflicted by sharp melee weapons/bullets (blood loss from blunt melee is more complex) - Blood will pool under the wounded body part of dead animals/players/infected rather than always at the centre

-Blood Stained - visualised by bloody hands/arms - applies the scent to the player - can be washed off - acquired by handling corpses/gutting 

-Scent - Increases Zombie awareness/they path towards the general area - applied to bodies guts, blood stained players, bleeding players & animals/blood trails- May be a future property for non passive animal AI to hunt players/infected
-Blood based health visualised more effectively - Gameplay enhancer 
-Sharp Melee/Bullet wounds emit blood particles - Visual cues for combat/immersion

-Expanding dynamic gameplay/roleplay - "This is your story" all these things add to the immersion and roleplay elements of the self written story of each unique life a player lives in DayZ

Edited May 20, 2015 by Tchaikovsky1993

[stielhandgranate 480]

Agree. We need a fallout 3/NV style gore system. I want to walk past former gunfights and find bodies that are torn open and dismembered from gunfire and explosions, with the body parts being feasted upon by zombies.

[-Gews- 7443]

While Arma 2 does blood effects far better than Arma 3 (not really an opinion since Arma 3 doesn't really have blood effects)

Nah, it doesn't. You shoot someone in ARMA 2 you get a little red dot of blood wherever you hit them from whatever range with whatever gun. Shoot someone from 1500 meters with M24, ding, see exactly where you hit him. As a hit marker it's superior. For a realistic appearance it's worse. Little spherical blood clouds shouldn't magically spout from backpacks and explode from under triple layers of clothing or through boots and helmets. ARMA 3 does have blood, it's just much less noticeable, as it should be, but you can still see red mist if you observe carefully.

But that's just the initial impact... neither game has proper blood-soaked clothing, puddles of blood and trails to be followed. I think it's something everyone would like.

[rybec 339]

But that's just the initial impact... neither game has proper blood-soaked clothing, puddles of blood and trails to be followed. I think it's something everyone would like.

You'd be very surprised how easy mammals bleed.

When a friend and I were killing bears in a farmer's field (they like to flatten oats and ruin the crops) he bled all over after getting hit in the lung. A trail of blood in a field like this and we could still find him.

[-Gews- 7443]

You'd be very surprised how easy mammals bleed.

When a friend and I were killing bears in a farmer's field (they like to flatten oats and ruin the crops) he bled all over after getting hit in the lung. A trail of blood in a field like this and we could still find him.

Uh, actually that's why I mentioned everyone would like to see "proper blood-soaked clothing, puddles of blood and trails to be followed."

Here are the two blood effects I'm talking about when I say ARMA 3 looks much better.

[Bororm 1156]

I think ArmA 2 did blood a lot better than ArmA 3, impacts aside.  The blood fountains may not have been realistic, but they were a lot more satisfying.  It's something I didn't actually realize was missing in arma 3 till I read the OP, but that I always felt something was off.  That and the stupid jerk animation when people get hit.  I'll also say that arma 2 had a really satisfying hit noise, there was often a distinctive "kerthunk" when you hit people, which is lacking in both the SA and ArmA 3.

 

The fountains themselves in comparison to the SA were better as well, at least from a distance.  Maybe they had larger particles?  They seemed less floaty in a way, and the color in the SA seems a lot more muted or something.  Up close there's some impressive fountains in the SA, but overall there's something about the mod that is superior.

 

The blood on your character after being wounded or on corpses was also a lot more gruesome looking in arma 2.  It doesn't help that both the SA and ArmA 3 use ragdolls, which just look and feel worse than canned animations as well.  It felt like you were actually hitting something with mass when you shot people in arma 2, where as in both the SA and 3 there's a really floaty feel to everything.

 

All factors combined, the actual act of hitting some one in arma 2 was more satisfying than both other games.  And the corpses themselves were more traumatic, especially with the flies =P

Edited May 20, 2015 by Bororm

[rybec 339]

 

Uh, actually that's why I mentioned everyone would like to see "proper blood-soaked clothing, puddles of blood and trails to be followed."

Here are the two blood effects I'm talking about when I say ARMA 3 looks much better.

 

 

I meant to reinforce what you said.

[hazzwold 4]

 

 

I agree with both of you, Arma 2 functionally did blood better, and was more satisfying, Arma 3 had better blood textures and such (regardless of their near non-existance) both where certainly far from perfect and thus this thread to hopefully tease out some information on any plans/thoughts/ideas as to how they intend to improve upon them with DayZ where it arguably matters most. 

 

I imagine that blood may not be spraying through layers of body armour and backpacks and carrier vests and such and that is fine for Arma, but in DayZ people may be running around topless, and definitely not in body armour. So unless the blood effects were context sensitive relative to what a player is wearing, which would probably not be worth the trouble, the blood would spray always much the same. 

To add to that, blood could also be set to low medium or high for those who like playing survival zombie murder sims and have moral reservations against seeing blood. 

Arma 2 had blood settings for different amounts so the option would not be hard to do. 

For those curious here is a video which showcases Arma 3's distinct lack of blood quite well - 

Here's an video of Arma 2 (edited by After effects, not Vanilla) with an exaggerated but quite nice blood effect - 

Edited May 20, 2015 by Tchaikovsky1993

[-Gews- 7443]

I meant to reinforce what you said.

Ah :P

 

It doesn't help that both the SA and ArmA 3 use ragdolls, which just look and feel worse than canned animations as well.  It felt like you were actually hitting something with mass when you shot people in arma 2, where as in both the SA and 3 there's a really floaty feel to everything.

The ragdolls in SA make killing more rewarding than in ARMA 2, IMO. I agree ARMA 3 is not so great. But part of that also has to do with the fact weapons seem much, much less powerful since everyone is wearing body armor and unlike in ARMA 2, it actually provides some serious protection. Lynx + red dot feels quite powerful, for example...

 

I agree with both of you, Arma 2 functionally did blood better, and was more satisfying, Arma 3 had better blood textures and such (regardless of their near non-existance) both where certainly far from perfect and thus this thread to hopefully tease out some information on any plans/thoughts/ideas as to how they intend to improve upon them with DayZ where it arguably matters most.

We don't need little blood explosions to create visceral impacts. Dust, flinching, reaction animations, small bits of clothing can provide the same thing. Case in point, .30-06 vs deer. There is no visible blood exploding from the point of impact. The blood pours out after. Of course you can't see the exit wound here which could be and often is much more dramatic, but a hoodie or jacket would hide much of that "splatter".

 

Yet despite the lack of blood the hit in this video is very clear. ARMA 3's flinching animation is not so great but it's a step in the right direction. More blood is good, much more blood, as long as the blood looks and acts how I would expect it to act in real life...

[bulldog six 13]

+1. this definetly needs improvement, the puffs looks really silly.. personally i love the blood effects of Overgrowth where the blood actually flows down the body in little streams.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I want there to be as "realistic" blood as possible: no massive blood explosions, no gory trails, etc.

 

A puff of vapor (not necessarily blood, but dust, etc) from an exit wound. Some blood on the ground by a resting corpse. Blood trails in grass that you actually have to look for, not a stream.

 

No dismemberment, slit jugulars that spray blood, rivulets of blood running down a body, etc. Understatment, not Overstatement.