Was the game better or worse with bandit skin?

[Valec 55]

Removal of the skin was the worst thing that could happen for the "nice" player.

Removal of the skin was the best thing that could happen for the "evil" player.

Take your pick.

Back in the day I shot every bandit skin on sight' date=' without thinking twice.

Now I shoot everyone wielding any kind of weapon, without thinking twice.

Take your pick.

[/quote']

You were one of those annoying people, weren't you? Shooting every bandit skin on sight was nothing more than dickish. Not everyone with that skin killed in cold blood. Defending yourself from another survivor would also earn you the bandit skin, and for surviving, you're going to murder him(and it is a murder, because he never wanted to kill anybody).

This is probably one of the reasons it was taken out. Too many people shooting bandit skins on sight and feeling it's justified, like you're a good guy for doing it. You weren't. You were a killer, just like the bandit you killed, and are no better morally.

This doesn't apply to me, personally, because I have no such qualms. I was actually pretty happy every time I found myself walking around with a bandit skin, even though I knew it made me a huge bullseye.

Guess that's because unlike some players, I know that in DayZ, you should always be prepared to die. It WILL happen. Do NOT get attached to your equipment. You WILL lose it. This goes for everybody, bandit and survivor alike.

[sandorski 17]

Removal of the skin was the worst thing that could happen for the "nice" player.

Removal of the skin was the best thing that could happen for the "evil" player.

Take your pick.

Back in the day I shot every bandit skin on sight' date=' without thinking twice.

Now I shoot everyone wielding any kind of weapon, without thinking twice.

Take your pick.

[/quote']

You were one of those annoying people, weren't you? Shooting every bandit skin on sight was nothing more than dickish. Not everyone with that skin killed in cold blood. Defending yourself from another survivor would also earn you the bandit skin, and for surviving, you're going to murder him(and it is a murder, because he never wanted to kill anybody).

This is probably one of the reasons it was taken out. Too many people shooting bandit skins on sight and feeling it's justified, like you're a good guy for doing it. You weren't. You were a killer, just like the bandit you killed, and are no better morally.

This doesn't apply to me, personally, because I have no such qualms. I was actually pretty happy every time I found myself walking around with a bandit skin, even though I knew it made me a huge bullseye.

Guess that's because unlike some players, I know that in DayZ, you should always be prepared to die. It WILL happen. Do NOT get attached to your equipment. You WILL lose it. This goes for everybody, bandit and survivor alike.

You sound like a Carebear.

[xeaglenec 13]

the old humanity system was broke. You got bandit skin by defending yourself from other bandits...

Please, don't ask for shit you don't know. Learn to avoid people and get some friends in real life to help you.

[dallas 5195]

Guess that's because unlike some players' date=' I know that in DayZ, you should always be prepared to die. It WILL happen. Do NOT get attached to your equipment. You WILL lose it. This goes for everybody, bandit and survivor alike.

[/quote']

Problem is this is a survival sim, not a prepare yourself to die sim. When survival doesn't mean a thing, nor do murder or dying, what's the point?

[Valec 55]

Guess that's because unlike some players' date=' I know that in DayZ, you should always be prepared to die. It WILL happen. Do NOT get attached to your equipment. You WILL lose it. This goes for everybody, bandit and survivor alike.

[/quote']

Problem is this is a survival sim, not a prepare yourself to die sim. When survival doesn't mean a thing, nor do murder or dying, what's the point?

This is a survival sim, yes. But there is no 'winning the game'. You will eventually die to something and i'm pretty sure this is fairly intentional. It's more about how long you can survive. So in this case, it really is a 'prepare to die' sim, because there is no end to it. Every life in DayZ ends this way, and nobody lives forever in DayZ.

[zalman 1]

the old humanity system was broke. You got bandit skin by defending yourself from other bandits...

Please' date=' don't ask for shit you don't know. Learn to avoid people and get some friends in real life to help you.

[/quote']

like it should be, self defense is also violence. It was a good balance and if you didn't want to become bandit in self defense you could just stay away from other people, at least back then there were options for solo players, today its hide or shoot everyone you see.

[aphex187 52]

The dark side of the human psyche came into it's own once the bandit skin was removed, i say bring it back...

[dallas 5195]

This is a survival sim' date=' yes. But there is no 'winning the game'. You will eventually die to something and i'm pretty sure this is fairly intentional. It's more about how long you can survive. So in this case, it really is a 'prepare to die' sim, because there is no end to it. Every life in DayZ ends this way, and nobody lives forever in DayZ.

[/quote']

Takes me 30min to get geared after a death. I don't care much about dying, but I care that social interactions with stranger has become a question of who shoots first. How am I winning? I'm winning by trying to maintain my humanity when playing, only killing other players who force my hand or deserve it, because they attacket our peaceful group. However I used to encounter like minded players, who's first instinct wasn't to kill everyone or everything, but I don't see these players anymore.

I meet two players in a supermarket, when they saw me they said "friendly, friendly" and before I could reply, they had disconnected. Says something about the state of the mod, something isn't working, when everybody expect KOS from everybody.

[Valec 55]

This is a survival sim' date=' yes. But there is no 'winning the game'. You will eventually die to something and i'm pretty sure this is fairly intentional. It's more about how long you can survive. So in this case, it really is a 'prepare to die' sim, because there is no end to it. Every life in DayZ ends this way, and nobody lives forever in DayZ.

[/quote']

Takes me 30min to be geared. How am I winning? I'm winning by trying to maintain my humanity when playing, only killing other players who force my hand or deserve it, because they attacket our peaceful group. However I used to encounter like minded players, who's first instinct wasn't to kill everyone or everything, but I don't see these players anymore.

I meet two players in a supermarket, when they saw me they said "friendly, friendly" and before I could reply, they had disconnected. Says something about the state of the mod, something isn't working, when everybody expect KOS from everybody.

Maybe it does need some adjusting, however I think penalizing bandits is the wrong way to go with it. It'd be more appropriate, in my opinion, to give survivors incentive to cooperate and not murder. I'm not sure what within the game mechanics would be possible.

At the end of the day, killing bandits is part of the game, so you also don't want to stop people from killing each other altogether.

I'll be honest, even with the bandit skin, I was playing with friends and shooting strangers on sight. I'll be honest, I survived considerably longer this way, as doing otherwise has gotten me killed. Now I don't hesitate, and I doubt any changes to the game will make me hesitate.

[Skaich 50]

Worse.

Without bandits skins more honestly.

You're expecting some interaction with survivors, but got bullet in your head (if not in the bush or barn, but sure in NW AF or HCS)

Conclusion? All are bandits in rare loot locations, but in civilian clothes.

Not every bandit who was killed by you, want to kill you.

Often, some players were was awarded a bandit skin, for successful self-defense)) And who was killed?

That's right, the survivor, who shot first. And what? This is the same player, but marked as a bandit.

But then he was forced to defend himself from everyone. It was harder. Because in bandit shooting everyone (99.8%) and everywhere.

(I've been in the shoes of bandit couple days.;) It was hard. Survive but try do not kill others.) The only thing that has pleased in the skin of bandit - Bundeswehr kevlar gloves!))

PS Rocket!

It would be nice if the gloves were was available as loot.

PPS Sorry for my English.

o>

[dallas 5195]

like it should be' date=' self defense is also violence. It was a good balance and if you didn't want to become bandit in self defense you could just stay away from other people, at least back then there were options for solo players, today its hide or shoot everyone you see.

[/quote']Indeed, when you move tactically, know how to use cover to your advantage, you get to kill a whole lot of people, who have just been introduced to the ArmA engine and pick fights with someone they shouldn't have.

Even after a selfdefense kill, survivor often feel mixed emotions, happy to be alive, angry to be put in a situation, which was unnecessary, but also a rush and bloodthirst. My only 100% unprovoked murder happened in the wake of killing another player in selfdefense, I saw another player, who didn't pose any kind of threat to me, hadn't see me, heading in another direction, didn't even care about his gear, I just took the shot in the heat of the moment.

Maybe it does need some adjusting' date=' however I think penalizing bandits is the wrong way to go with it. It'd be more appropriate, in my opinion, to give survivors incentive to cooperate and not murder. I'm not sure what within the game mechanics would be possible.

At the end of the day, killing bandits is part of the game, so you also don't want to stop people from killing each other altogether.

I'll be honest, even with the bandit skin, I was playing with friends and shooting strangers on sight. I'll be honest, I survived considerably longer this way, as doing otherwise has gotten me killed. Now I don't hesitate, and I doubt any changes to the game will make me hesitate.

[/quote']

What I liked about the bandit skin, was that even a surviving saint like me, could accidentally end up in it, after an act of selfdefense. That meant my gameplay experience would involuntary change. Just like you have to adapt to the different gameplay at night, a survivor, forced into a bandit skin, would have to be very careful not to meet other survivors or risk getting into more situations, where he'd either get killed or lose even more humanity.

Many bandits wore their skins with honor and it didn't really matter much, because their whole approach to the game, was to play the part of bad guys, which this good vs. evil is dependant on.

For other players, who hadn't decided which role they were going for, they knew or learned that you had to think about the consequences, befoe you pulled the trigger. Sometimes the situation demanded you shot, no matter the consequences, but other times, you had time to make a moral choice.

At the moment, there's not much choice, because there's no consequence, you either kill or you run, no inbetween.

*sorry about my grammar, I drop commas left and right.

[Sethliopod 4]

Did a lot of bandits/murderers consider the skin a penalty or problem?

[dallas 5195]

Did a lot of bandits/murderers consider the skin a penalty or problem?

I think the people who prefered to double-cross other players and did not want a consequence or an incentament to not automatically shoot on sight, considered it a penalty and unrealistic.

Other bandits wore the skin is a badge of honor and embraced the challenge.

[zalman 1]

Well rocket. you said that you were sure that the bandit skin didn't matter, you said people wouldn't change and start killing everybody just cause they could without consequences. you said that if it was a complete disaster you could always just revert back... it was a complete disaster.

[fml 29]

Did a lot of bandits/murderers consider the skin a penalty or problem?

yes, they hate it because it gives their motives away.

[speed neck 0]

worse ' date=' it was totally unrealistic , there should be no visual or audible cues on who is a bandit and who isn't.

[/quote']

but I'm sure you're all for the heartbeat-bandit detection, right?

If you're going to whine about "realism" in a game with fucking insta-cure morphine and zombies in general, then you have quite an argument to make.

Bring back the bandit skins and add the chat, it helped everyone.

plus bandit skins looked badass.

[septuscap 42]

Did a lot of bandits/murderers consider the skin a penalty or problem?

yes' date=' they hate it because it gives their motives away.

[/quote']

You guys are schizophrenic. Bandits didn't give a shit about bandit skins, it was PvE players crying that they turned bandit after killing in self defense.

Just like how PvE players wanted makarovs removed to reduce deathmatching and "incentivize teamwork." Now they just cry that bandits love this change.

You're all morons, and should shut up before you waste any more of rocket's time.

[herd 69]

agree. removing the bandit skin was THE major stupid idea that turned this mode into COD PVP absurdness.

---

worse ' date=' it was totally unrealistic , there should be no visual or audible cues on who is a bandit and who isn't.

[/quote']

plz go to COD

[JohnSmith (DayZ) 1]

I meet two players in a supermarket' date=' when they saw me they said "friendly, friendly" and before I could reply, they had disconnected. Says something about the state of the mod, something isn't working, when everybody expect KOS from everybody.

[/quote']

This.

The bandit skin system was not perfect, far from it.

But replacing it with "nothing" didnt work out, too, as we can clearly see atm.

Unless somethings gonna change big time soon this mod is and always will stay a DM only game that mostly attracts one particular type of players...

Any kind of random encounter teamplay is now gone - if someone aint on your teamspeak he is the enemy.

Unfortunately he has to be the enemy if you dont want to respawn constantly.

And it is very easy and convenient to treat him as the enemy because there are no consequences whatsoever for random killing - but there are mostly negative consequences if you do not do it...

[herd 69]

why not offer 2 options to the server providers?

hardcore servers: no bandit skin and no cross-hair

regular servers: bandit skin and cross-hair.

or keep it as is but add "casual server" with bandit skin.

Agree. Also add side chat to regular. Iam sick of "itsn ot realistic" argument its total bullshit. This game isnt realistic at all.

[maxim_malcon@yahoo.com 0]

Yes, it is BS, "It's not realistic," bitch please, most people shoot on sight PRIMARILY because the game ISN'T realistic.

As the way things are right now, bandits will ALWAYS win, they get the first shot, if they are not a crappy shot, you will never get a chance to even think twice.

At least bandit skins gave clear targets, even if it was flawed.

So yes, it is much worse now.

The deathmatching that is.

[herd 69]

The cool thing about the bandit skin was if you shot someone in selfdefense' date=' you risked getting hunted yourself and would actively have to avoid survivors to return as a survivor yourself.

[/quote']

You DO realize devs could fix it ? Making good actions make you good agian, and / or growing your humanity with time and/or making so that say 5 kills are needed to become a bandit and/or detecting if you was shoot etc etc ? This can be balanced to the point you can kill in self defense.

Another option would be that if you shoot someone and he would die in current patch, in my version the person would drop to the ground and pass out. NOT DEAD. You will have to shoot him again to kill.

This can be fixed.

---

You were one of those annoying people' date=' weren't you? Shooting every bandit skin on sight was nothing more than dickish. Not everyone with that skin killed in cold blood. Defending yourself from another survivor would also earn you the bandit skin, and for surviving, you're going to murder him(and it is a murder, because he never wanted to kill anybody).

[/quote']

Read my post earlier. This could be fixed. The shooting in self defence could be fixed if devs wanted it. But no. Now you jsut shoot on sight and its ok for griefers

---

the old humanity system was broke. You got bandit skin by defending yourself from other bandits...

Please' date=' don't ask for shit you don't know. Learn to avoid people and get some friends in real life to help you.

[/quote']

You could kill people with bandit skin w/o loosing humanity right ? If not, this could be easily fixed, no ?

[LumberBack 43]

all i know is, when the bandit skins where in, i did not get shot by every person i met...

[maxim_malcon@yahoo.com 0]

The cool thing about the bandit skin was if you shot someone in selfdefense' date=' you risked getting hunted yourself and would actively have to avoid survivors to return as a survivor yourself.

[/quote']

You DO realize devs could fix it ? Making good actions make you good agian, and / or growing your humanity with time and/or making so that say 5 kills are needed to become a bandit and/or detecting if you was shoot etc etc ? This can be balanced to the point you can kill in self defense.

Another option would be that if you shoot someone and he would die in current patch, in my version the person would drop to the ground and pass out. NOT DEAD. You will have to shoot him again to kill.

This can be fixed.

---

You were one of those annoying people' date=' weren't you? Shooting every bandit skin on sight was nothing more than dickish. Not everyone with that skin killed in cold blood. Defending yourself from another survivor would also earn you the bandit skin, and for surviving, you're going to murder him(and it is a murder, because he never wanted to kill anybody).

[/quote']

Read my post earlier. This could be fixed. The shooting in self defence could be fixed if devs wanted it. But no. Now you jsut shoot on sight and its ok for griefers

---

the old humanity system was broke. You got bandit skin by defending yourself from other bandits...

Please' date=' don't ask for shit you don't know. Learn to avoid people and get some friends in real life to help you.

[/quote']

You could kill people with bandit skin w/o loosing humanity right ? If not, this could be easily fixed, no ?

I don't think I really want the bandit skin to be back.

I like this new feature they added which is much more subtle, the heart beating, however right now it's total crap.

40 meters for you to start hearing these heart beats?

Are you joking me?

I have to be up this guy's face, sniff his ass, and then observe it in order for me to find out who he is??

It needs much longer range, that if you aim at him to the point where his name pops up on the screen, you could then start hearing your heart beats if you have a bad feeling about this guy.

If this gets fixed, the heart beats are much better way and don't ruin the immersion, and much more "realistic" than a bandit changing his clothes after killing 5 players.

It's the inner sense of the survivor that tells him something wrong with this guy.

[septuscap 42]

all i know is' date=' when the bandit skins where in, i did not get shot by every person i met...

[/quote']

It's called repeated games in game theory. People started off friendly, and learned through repetition that not KOS'ing led to them getting shot in the face more often than not.

There is simply no way to make a bandit skin system that isn't gamed. Heal your buddy who's not a bandit to regain humanity. Kill in between PvE jaunts so you retain positive humanity. Force survivors to kill you and make them bandits. Use a sniper rifle so your skin doesn't matter, you're not even in sight.

If you want to approach a stranger, have a trusted buddy keep his sights on him while you get in close, stay behind cover, and try to talk to him. Test him to see if he betrays you or lures you into a trap. Keep your friend on overwatch. Try and figure out what this player's intentions are. (Is he trying to draw you out so HIS buddy can kill you? Is he just trying to figure out if you're going to betray HIM? etc)

Bandits do this with every mark they kill. Do you think it's magic when you're running through a city and a bandit shoots you in the head the second you round a corner? No, they're staying concealed, figuring out what's going through your head and getting a step ahead of you.