Some movement mechanics need a major tweak (before 1.0)

[Ugly (DayZ) 79]

I propose that the movement in this game needs a major overhaul, as right now it feels way too clunky, and also completely unnatural (sp?).

 

Observation:

While trying to circle strafe a zombie to melee, to this observer, it feels as though I am trying to pilot an AT-ST, the 2-legged Walker robots from the Star Wars franchise

 

 

When you're fighting off a zombie with a hammer (fire axe...), disregarding the lag, the way your character moves around in these dexterity-heavy situations does not feel natural, nor intuitive. I feel encumbered, all my movements feel weighed down, sluggish, in a way that cannot be accounted for by simple lag. There is no natural flow to my characters' movements.

 

IMO, they (BI) are 

A) Somehow hampered by the ARMA engine (an opinion I've heard often)

B) Trying to recreate a "real" feeling, which in my opinion they have failed at, in this particular instance.

 

Melee is going to be huge in this game, or at least it should be. Let's let the Developers know how we feel, and that as alpha testers, our feedback is that the movement system needs an overhaul.

 

Keep the conversation civil!

 

Lets compare this game real quick one of my favorites, TF2. 

TF2 is nice and fluid. When I need to change directions with a melee weapon in my hands, I can reliably perform the movement I intend, unlike in DayZ where I can get hung up seemingly on my own feet.

 

When you walk with a weapon raised in DayZ, you take these really dumb steps foward. That is the best way I can describe it, as though you are taking baby steps.

 

Thoughts?

Edited November 21, 2014 by Ugly

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Lets compare this game real quick one of my favorites, TF2. 

TF2 is nice and fluid. When I need to change directions with a melee weapon in my hands, I can reliably perform the movement I intend, unlike in DayZ where I can get hung up seemingly on my own feet.

 

 

Thoughts?

You started off on the right foot but then lost all credibility here.  DayZ is not a twitch shooter

[Element47 2480]

You started off on the right foot but then lost all credibility here.  DayZ is not a twitch shooter

 

Actually, DayZ IS a twitch shooter. Any real-time shooter which features using the mouse to point at enemies to shoot them - and requires you to act within a timeframe -  is a twitch shooter. If you're in CQC in DayZ and your survival depends on your reaction with your mouse, this is the core definition of twitch gameplay. You want to get rid of twitch gameplay, how about we introduce tab-targeting enemies and a percentage based to-hit roll? right....

 

I know the 'realism'-faction denounces fast-paced skill-based arena shooters as "twitch shooters", and bemoans the lack of any artificial limit to the speed of aiming, especially in regard to rotational movement. I understand the wish to have 'realistic' - believable - movement mechanics in the game, as opposed to 'bunnyhopping 720noscope' action that rewards reflexes - believe me, i know the feeling of becoming too old for q3a instagib.

 

But the OP is right - the game movement, though severely improved already, still feels clunky and unprecise. Most people dont ask for arena shooter combat - but we want movement feel a bit less like this:

 

[ChainReactor 922]

 

Player Controller

Not controls, controller. This is the system the engine uses to convert your key presses into movements of the player. The current system is quite dated, and it has been reworked many times - perhaps a few too many. So we're redoing it from scratch. Please note: this is not player controls (which we already redid, improving the mouse movement greatly) - but the method the engine uses to deal with things.

 

Rocket on Reddit.

 

He also explains that some of the clunkyness indeed is intentional. Good read on what we can expect concerning controls and movement.

[5mirkeh 98]

I propose that the movement in this game needs a major overhaul, as right now it feels way too clunky, and also completely unnatural (sp?).

 

Observation:

While trying to circle strafe a zombie to melee, to this observer, it feels as though I am trying to pilot an AT-ST, the 2-legged Walker robots from the Star Wars franchise

 

 

When you're fighting off a zombie with a hammer (fire axe...), disregarding the lag, the way your character moves around in these dexterity-heavy situations does not feel natural, nor intuitive. I feel encumbered, all my movements feel weighed down, sluggish, in a way that cannot be accounted for by simple lag. There is no natural flow to my characters' movements.

 

IMO, they (BI) are 

A) Somehow hampered by the ARMA engine (an opinion I've heard often)

B) Trying to recreate a "real" feeling, which in my opinion they have failed at, in this particular instance.

 

Melee is going to be huge in this game, or at least it should be. Let's let the Developers know how we feel, and that as alpha testers, our feedback is that the movement system needs an overhaul.

 

Keep the conversation civil!

 

Lets compare this game real quick one of my favorites, TF2. 

TF2 is nice and fluid. When I need to change directions with a melee weapon in my hands, I can reliably perform the movement I intend, unlike in DayZ where I can get hung up seemingly on my own feet.

 

When you walk with a weapon raised in DayZ, you take these really dumb steps foward. That is the best way I can describe it, as though you are taking baby steps.

 

Thoughts?

 

Im going to correct you on a small - almost insignificant factor in your post

 

The AT-ST Is a Mech, Not a robot

 

A mech is a piloted walking machine, A robot is an automaton

[Ugly (DayZ) 79]

You started off on the right foot but then lost all credibility here.  DayZ is not a twitch shooter

 

Hey Fuckface I'm just down the road from you… (Cowtown)

 

In all seriousness though, do you not agree that the movement in this game (DayZ) is flawed?

 

If you notice I did no recommend rocket jumping or double jumps, all I suggested was that in most other games my movement has a fluidity that us lacking in DayZ.

 

also thanks for the correction on Mechs. You dork. (hugs)

[threedogification 41]

I agree with rocket in that reddit post. The clunkiness is in the game for realistic human movement, this game, again, is still in development, and I'm sure this will be worked on over time. Maybe they might even take the movement system from ArmA 3

[OrLoK 16182]

Rocket on Reddit.

 

He also explains that some of the clunkyness indeed is intentional. Good read on what we can expect concerning controls and movement.

Hello there

 

I had not read that. Splendid stuff.

 

Ive been a long "complainer" about "clunky" movement even though I do agree with R on many points in his post.

 

But remember ones rig also has a lot to do with it. The more FPS one has the smoother the whole system feels, so while there is some refining to be made in the way the system handles interactions is also partly down to how ones PC handles dayz.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[gibonez 3633]

The only way movement should be headed is realism.

Stamina

Weight

Momentum

Realistic movement speed

[Evil Minion 943]

Realism does not have to cause clunkiness. Good realistic controls might seem clunky to newbies that are not used to authentic limitations but not if you learn to use them. Just like a difficult job with awesome coworkers you should get to know first.

 

Though right now the DayZ controls are more of a job with extremely lazy coworkers. Its quite unresponsive and thats what has to change - push a button and something happens. There should be certain limitations but it should definitely not feel like you are having trouble communicating the command.

 

Maybe its best to communicate the target instead of micromanaging the movement: Your crosshair can be moved freely in your free-aim area but your weapon follows in a realistic way instead of having to be accelerated/decelerated manually.

[Troll_Hunter 54]

Clunkiness, I think people need to become more clear in their wording, and I'm glad people are putting efforts to be more precise.

 

Clunkiness implies to me delayed movements and jerky movements that lead to unpredictable and inaccurate movements and many corrections.

 

Example. If you imagine an character response delay of say 1 second, your navigation on an obstacle course will be very difficult with tons of bumping and inaccurate turning.

This to me is clunky.

Instant response is needed, but with speed limitations depending on factors of weight, speed, stance, weapon weight and length.

 

How would I prevent twitch shooting/moving?

 

Well have a dynamic rotation speed limit. The dynamic is in the players speed, weight, stance, weapon weight and length. If the player runs, his maximum turn speed is slower. The player will see his body instantly starting to turn, maybe with a very small ramp until maximum turning speed is limited by aforementioned variables. A standing player turns faster then a walking and running one. Raising a long heavy weapon reduces the maximum turning speed too. So a Steyer AUG will be turning noticeable faster then a Mosin, and the players view leads the guns mussel more.

 

 

Another source of clunkiness are in my view the slow animations.

They are done in a slow way, instead of in a way that a stressed and hurried person would do the same task. The laid back speed does not match the extremely stressful situation of surviving and fighting.

Simply speeding the reloading animations, bandaging and consuming food and drink animations up by say 50-100% would greatly help getting the feeling of being fast and proficient in handling the tools of the game.

 

If you want people's characters move more natural when facing a surprise thread, the dynamic maximum rotation speed will prevent jogging players from twitching around. Their raised HR will prevent easy quick scopes, still possible with good trigger timing.

 

When walking,one is going slow and therefore turning is much faster. When standing without additional weight and gun it's the fastest, good for boxing. Wielding an axe will be slower.

 

To add some more realism, gun rotation can also be variable.

The first 30 degrees of a turn could be fast, turning beyond should be noticeably slower, simulating the feet repositioning (needs animation too!).

 

 

I agree that more realistic turning, and gun operating speeds the game will become more slower paced, encouraging a more strategic approach.

However players should have instant feedback to their inputs, (no delays!) so movements become predictable, fluid and playable.

[Artophwar 42]

Yes some of the movement could be improved but I do disagree with the premise that we should be able to circle strafe while wielding a fire axe or any other heavy weapon. That is completely unrealistic and not natural in anyway shape or form. The inertia just does not allow you to swing a heavy object and run in perfect circles. Circle strafing is a twitch shooter thing and not something someone does in real life.

[Troll_Hunter 54]

Circle strafing is at this moment needed because we cannot block attacks.

 

I think there should be a blocking move, so you can block a melee strike.

 

When holding a rifle you can do a melee attack by swinging the rifle butt, and blocking strikes by holding the rifle out in front.

Blocking should be a bit faster, so it's easier to respond.

Combat would be a series of attacks and blocks, where the attacker tries to time and hit the other at an open spot. The defender needs to put his blocking line/block in the path of the attackers melee swing.

 

Fists will have shorter range, but will be harder to block since they have a small surface area.

Defending with fists will employ the lower arms as block surfaces.

Naturally a speed up rifle butt or axe or machete will break those lower arms, after which you cannot raise them, and can only jog away in severe pain.

To show hits on the body, their should be a small blood splatter, with impact sound, and maybe with a cracking sound if it's a strong hit.

Also I'm much in favour of agony and pain sounds, which you can hear over a realistic distance, this is really missing in Dayz, where getting shot and bleeding heavily yields a zen monk like silence, not how real people react to bullets in the arm, axe in the leg etc..

 

To make the melee combat convincing impacts should have a kinetic effect, unbalancing the player, even knocking them over with a full ragdoll physics when hit unconscious / dead.

 

Tuning can be done by sizing the blocking size, and tuning the attack swing.

If there is enough programming time, the attack swing could be a variable, where the player stores energy and has that released. The bigger the store (being visualised by how far the fist/axe/riflebut is bought backward), the harder the swing and the more recovery time the attacker needs for the next swing. Hence allowing for a quick short counter.

 

A close up blocker, can block the attack swing early (just as it starts), this reduces the swing impact dramatically. Apart from dodging this is the only way to block an well aimed axe/ rifle butt from breaking your forearms.

 

Naturally a player with just his arms up can move his upper body much faster then a player holding an axe/rifle, this allows then to duck and bent and dodge a swing of a slow heavy melee weapon. The best response to being attacked by an axe wielding madman ;) is to get close quick, block early and strike fast with your fist, just like in real life :D

 

Armed zombie fights would be a nice training for players to learn how to do melee.

A 2 or more to 1 fight is going to be hard for the single defender, he needs to make sure to circle around and keep the attackers in front, and employ quick blocks and fast short, well placed strikes.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Troll_Hunter