loot hoarding / tent security

[rickyriot 1009]

After some serious loot searching the only weapon I could find was a repeater (and luckily some .357 too) so reluctantly headed for the NWAF. Not being well armed for that location I was nervous as I crept around but didn't bump into anyone. However up at the military tents I had some luck in finding some clothing and a few other bits and bobs, but no weapons. After some searching I found two player tents. Unable to access them, I moved away only to hear over the comms a player telling me not to move. With a only a repeater I thought caution was the better option and put my hands up. As luck would have it, he wasn't in the mood for an easy kill and I started chatting to him. It turns out that he and some friends had been regularly coming back to this location, picking up any weapons that were spawned and shifting them to the tents.

 

Now this got me thinking, on two things. One of them is the act of loot hoarding. I like the addition of tents for persistence, so I certainly don't want to see them removed, however in this case it seems a little unfair that people can transfer loot that spawns and is available into locations that are next to the loot that are not available.

 

The second thing I was thinking was the security of tents. Considering they are only canvas, not being able to cut them open or even just using your hands, it seems somewhat unrealistic just how impenetrable they are. Anyone who has gone camping, or done it at festivals, will now how fragile they are in real life.

 

I don't want to sound like I'm whinging, it's part of the game so these players are not doing anything wrong, just seems a bit unfair to others on the server.

 

 

So, TL;DR... should players really be allowed to hoard such high value content into tents, and should those tents be so hardy?

 

 

[harteman 155]

Two tents can hold like 6 guns total?  Nothing wrong with that.

[rickyriot 1009]

Two tents can hold like 6 guns total?  Nothing wrong with that.

 

I've not actually used a tent before, but from what I have seen on YT the tents can hold much more than 3 guns. Even then 6 guns is still quite a lot, considering you could only have 2 or 3 AKs spawning at an airfield.

 

On the other question, do you think that tents should be impossible to break into? For persistent storage that is genuinely hard to find and break into I'd like to see boxes that you can bury (using the spade) rather than the tent. 

[ob1korobi 125]

You can't lock a tent. Just go inside it and grab what you want. If it looks empty try the usual method of checking to see what is in it. 

 

What is not fair about being first to a weapon and keeping it to yourself? Are you going to give your gun to someone the next time you see them if they don't have one? 

[rickyriot 1009]

You can't lock a tent. Just go inside it and grab what you want. If it looks empty try the usual method of checking to see what is in it. 

 

What is not fair about being first to a weapon and keeping it to yourself? Are you going to give your gun to someone the next time you see them if they don't have one? 

 

 

I tried to get into the tent and it didn't seem to let me, is there a special way to do it? Clearly my ignorance in using them has been shown up.

 

I think you are maybe reading my thread wrongly though. I'm certainly not suggesting you shouldn't be able to hold persistent storage (whether that is a weapon or not). It's the hoarding element I am bringing into question.

Edited November 18, 2014 by ricp

[ob1korobi 125]

I've not actually used a tent before, but from what I have seen on YT the tents can hold much more than 3 guns. Even then 6 guns is still quite a lot, considering you could only have 2 or 3 AKs spawning at an airfield.

 

On the other question, do you think that tents should be impossible to break into? For persistent storage that is genuinely hard to find and break into I'd like to see boxes that you can bury (using the spade) rather than the tent. 

 

All depends on the gun. One tent can fit a Mosin and a regular AK. Or you can put possibly 3 AK74u in one tent stacked. No way 6 rifles. Maybe sidearms.

 

 

I tried to get into the tent and it didn't seem to let me, is there a special way to do it? Clearly my ignorance in using them has been shown up.

 

I think you are maybe reading my thread wrongly though. I'm certainly not suggesting you shouldn't be able to hold persistent storage (whether that is a weapon or not). It's the hoarding element I am bringing into question.

 

All we are doing is hoarding in tents. What else are we supposed to do? I keep things in there I may or may not need. I hide my tent so it can't be found. I don't want to share. 

Edited November 18, 2014 by BigB055

[rickyriot 1009]

All depends on the gun. One tent can fit a Mosin and a regular AK. Or you can put possibly 3 AK74u in one tent stacked. No way 6 rifles. Maybe sidearms.

 

A deployed tent has 63 empty slots (source).

[rickyriot 1009]

So reading more about them it does seem like I was just a bit retarded when trying to access the tent.

[ob1korobi 125]

A deployed tent has 63 empty slots (source).

 

I have 3 tents. Well 4 now.  Sorry I saw where you said two tents hold 6 guns. 

 

 

So reading more about them it does seem like I was just a bit retarded when trying to access the tent.

 

You just need to play with them and figure out the quirks. If you want one I can give it to you. I am really just testing them ATM.

Edited November 18, 2014 by BigB055

[Death By Crowbar 1213]

Well, worse than loot hoarding - I've actually watch people decimate fire stations and police stations by taking any guns or axes and merely ditching them under nearby trees and such so they can go about their CoD style onslaught of that town or area. I've watched Twitch streamers such as ClamTaco do this a lot as well. With persistence on it ruins the game for any popular areas.

[ob1korobi 125]

Well, worse than loot hoarding - I've actually watch people decimate fire stations and police stations by taking any guns or axes and merely ditching them under nearby trees and such so they can go about their CoD style onslaught of that town or area. I've watched Twitch streamers such as ClamTaco do this a lot as well. With persistence on it ruins the game for any popular areas.

 

I have definitely taken items that I am not going to use any more that could potentially be used against me and cast them off into the forest or nearby waterway. But cleaning out a firestation or doing what you are saying is a little bit overboard.

[rickyriot 1009]

It seems I am guilty of assuming the tents don't allow non-owners to access the loot inside. For some reason I seem to remember this is how the mod tents worked but perhaps not, it has been some time since I played the  mod.

 

Just to confirm, if you find someone else's tent, can you access them?

I have definitely taken items that I am not going to use any more that could potentially be used against me and cast them off into the forest or nearby waterway. But cleaning out a firestation or doing what you are saying is a little bit overboard.

I will move some items, and to be honest I don't see a big problem with that. We all know the scene from Pulp Fiction where Butch finds Vince's gun and I'm sure none of us want a repeat of that!

I don't carry it miles away, but I will put it in a bush nearby. I wouldn't remove all the loot though, purely for the amount of time it would take.

Edited November 18, 2014 by ricp

[pillock 850]

Well, worse than loot hoarding - I've actually watch people decimate fire stations and police stations by taking any guns or axes and merely ditching them under nearby trees and such so they can go about their CoD style onslaught of that town or area. I've watched Twitch streamers such as ClamTaco do this a lot as well. With persistence on it ruins the game for any popular areas.

 

I have always made a point of hiding guns that I find if I don't need them, even before respawning and persistence was implemented. It just seems like the sensible thing to do. I also take ammo I don't need, and maybe dump it somewhere if I run out of inventory slots.

 

I don't think I'm ruining anyone else's game by doing this. The fewer loaded guns there are in other people's hands, the better it is for me, surely?

[ob1korobi 125]

 

Just to confirm, if you find someone else's tent, can you access them?

 

 

Yes. Just look around and scroll the mouse wheel until open tent pops up. Go inside. Try placing something inside to make the loot appear. Treat it like a salad bar. Take what you want and leave the rest. Or take it all and move the tent into a pond.

[Funkmaster Rick 373]

This issue already has a tried-and-tested solution from the mod: once you're survival-kitted, go into the forest and search for tents.

 

It'll be much easier once vehicles are working - helicopters especially - but I can't count the number of times I've stumbled into someone's camp in the middle of nowhere and found myself suddenly a rich man.

[rickyriot 1009]

Ok, it's clear that I was mistaken. Which makes this thread a bit pointless.

If people want to carry on discussing the topic of loot hoarding and tents, then do so, but my initial comments are not really valid now.

[Griz2 77]

I have always made a point of hiding guns that I find if I don't need them, even before respawning and persistence was implemented. It just seems like the sensible thing to do. I also take ammo I don't need, and maybe dump it somewhere if I run out of inventory slots.

 

I don't think I'm ruining anyone else's game by doing this. The fewer loaded guns there are in other people's hands, the better it is for me, surely?

 

 

Just sort of seems like douchebaggery to me. How can you be so paranoid about dying in a video game that you would hide all the nice things just so others can't have them? I see no problem with hoarding stuff because you might need it later, but this goes too far. I will go out of my way to give an undergeared player a gun even if it puts myself at risk. If you seriously dislike other players this much you might as well play single player offline games or something.

 

inb4 "that's my playstyle don't judge me" argument

[Whyherro123 2283]

I support the idea of persistence, loot hoarding, and making stashes, but I don't like the idea of using tents to do so. 

 

For anyone who has not used a tent in real life (go camping you unenlightened people!), a tent is far from secure, both from other people and the outdoors.

 

Firstly, one has to recognize that there is nothing on the planet that is waterproof. You can set up a tent with a ground cloth and a rain fly, but "eventually" water will percolate through the tent material, especially if there is contact between two fabrics (groundcloth and tent, rainfly and tent, tent and tent, etc). Leave it up long enough, and water will find a way. 

 

Secondly, tents can and will be damaged by inclement weather. The wind can get up under the floor and groundcloth. and lift the whole thing up like a kite (stakes can only hold so much, which is why better-made tents often have guylines that can be staked/tied out farther). Tree limbs can fall down and open a massive gash in the fabric. Etc. Tents are rather flimsy, which is why I have next-to-stopped using them in real life. My Troop makes shelters while camping now. Faster, simpler, and as-or-more effective.

 

Thirdly, tents are not lockboxes. They are of a very unnatural shape, making them easily visible to the human eye, and are often of bright colors. Generally, if your tent is the least bit visible, it will be found. And there is no stopping people from getting in there if they want to.

 

I would like it better if there were persistent "loot stashes" like in the mod: Take a shovel, dig a pit, and stash some stuff. Small stashes can hold a few items, but no weapons, while big stashes can hold a single longarm. You have to access them regularly and maintain them, or else they will collapse and you will lose the stash. In addition, if you don't "rotate" gear out of the stash, it gets damaged by water and deteriorates in condition.

 

Or, persistence could be locked to a particular structure that a player "claims" (Not sure about the process). They "claim" a house, room, or building, and can stash whatever they please in the location. They can "save" new stuff by adding it to the room, then logging out. This does not prohibit other players from entering the location, but merely prompts persistence to update for that location. 

 

Both versions are reasonably realistic. 

[rickyriot 1009]

Just sort of seems like douchebaggery to me. 

 

Bit harsh. If you were to be shot by someone who just picked up a gun you decided to leave it would certainly rank as carelessness. 

I feel there is a middle ground here. I would be less inclined to shift a shotgun than I would an SKS, but I suppose the argument is that either can kill you, but while I wouldn't be OCD about hiding everything, nor would I go out of my way to make the hidden item well hidden (ie: I wouldn't run to the woods to hide something), but I'm still not too keen at giving the opposition too easy a job.

 

After all, it might be a survival game, but you just don't know the character of the player that will find a weapon you've left and in the current stable/public servers I have found the tendency is to shoot first and speak later.

[rickyriot 1009]

I would like it better if there were persistent "loot stashes" like in the mod: Take a shovel, dig a pit, and stash some stuff. Small stashes can hold a few items, but no weapons, while big stashes can hold a single longarm. You have to access them regularly and maintain them, or else they will collapse and you will lose the stash. In addition, if you don't "rotate" gear out of the stash, it gets damaged by water and deteriorates in condition.

I much prefer the idea of caches that can be buried. I like the idea of small boxes for no long weapons, and perhaps a large strong box that can contain weapons but takes two players to lift/bury it - not sure if the game mechanics could implement that though.

Or, persistence could be locked to a particular structure that a player "claims" (Not sure about the process). They "claim" a house, room, or building, and can stash whatever they please in the location. They can "save" new stuff by adding it to the room, then logging out. This does not prohibit other players from entering the location, but merely prompts persistence to update for that location.

 

Reminds me of Epoch house building. Which I expect will make an appearance at some point. When? Who knows. Some time to go though.

[pillock 850]

Just sort of seems like douchebaggery to me. How can you be so paranoid about dying in a video game that you would hide all the nice things just so others can't have them? I see no problem with hoarding stuff because you might need it later, but this goes too far. I will go out of my way to give an undergeared player a gun even if it puts myself at risk. If you seriously dislike other players this much you might as well play single player offline games or something.

 

inb4 "that's my playstyle don't judge me" argument

 

I don't do it to be a douchebag, I do it to reduce the chance of me being shot! I think that's fair enough.

 

I don't see the game as a loot-collection exercise, much less a gun-finding sim. I don't need a gun to have fun playing DayZ - if other people do need a gun, then to me that means they are the type of player who likes shooting people. Therefore, I don't want that type of person to find a gun and/or ammo in the same server and the same near location as me. Hence, I hide guns and ammo.

 

Players who, like me, don't need a gun in order to enjoy the game will not inconvenienced by my actions and therefore I am not being a douchebag towards them; players who would like to use a gun or ammo which I leave behind to kill me are themselves douchebags in my book, and if I'm being a douchebag to them then that's OK by me.

 

It might be true that you can get further with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word. But it's also true that you can get further with a kind word if the other guy doesn't have a gun.

[Griz2 77]

I don't do it to be a douchebag, I do it to reduce the chance of me being shot! I think that's fair enough.

 

I don't see the game as a loot-collection exercise, much less a gun-finding sim. I don't need a gun to have fun playing DayZ - if other people do need a gun, then to me that means they are the type of player who likes shooting people. Therefore, I don't want that type of person to find a gun and/or ammo in the same server and the same near location as me. Hence, I hide guns and ammo.

 

Players who, like me, don't need a gun in order to enjoy the game will not inconvenienced by my actions and therefore I am not being a douchebag towards them; players who would like to use a gun or ammo which I leave behind to kill me are themselves douchebags in my book, and if I'm being a douchebag to them then that's OK by me.

 

It might be true that you can get further with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word. But it's also true that you can get further with a kind word if the other guy doesn't have a gun.

 

I'm not usually a KoS person and typically play the hero style. I carry guns to deal with zombies or to deal with players if they decide to be threatening. The way I play the game helps other players. The way you play the game takes away from their experience to benefit nobody but yourself. Sure, you have the right to play the way you like. But I won't respect you for it. It's a cheap thing to do and if you go out of your way to hide things so other players can't have them then I think you're taking the game way too seriously. Why is everyone so paranoid about other players? Worst case scenario is that someone else kills you but then you're fully geared up again in a matter of hours/minutes, provided some jerk hasn't hidden all the damn loot...

[harteman 155]

 

I have 3 tents. Well 4 now.  Sorry I saw where you said two tents hold 6 guns. 

 

 

 

You just need to play with them and figure out the quirks. If you want one I can give it to you. I am really just testing them ATM.

 

Hey Big Boss, If you wanna give one up, my clan could use one.  Or should I say one of our players, anyway.  All he has to do right now is loot, until his new pc is all bought and assembled.

 

I could trade you something.  PM RAK?  Fully-loaded M4?

[skypig 139]

I'm not usually a KoS person and typically play the hero style. I carry guns to deal with zombies or to deal with players if they decide to be threatening. The way I play the game helps other players. The way you play the game takes away from their experience to benefit nobody but yourself. Sure, you have the right to play the way you like. But I won't respect you for it. It's a cheap thing to do and if you go out of your way to hide things so other players can't have them then I think you're taking the game way too seriously. Why is everyone so paranoid about other players? Worst case scenario is that someone else kills you but then you're fully geared up again in a matter of hours/minutes, provided some jerk hasn't hidden all the damn loot...

not really...

I can't speak for anyone else. but when i ditch guns and ammo that I don't need or want there's no malice or spite involved.

this is a survival sim and one less gun or stack of ammo in someone else's pack increases my characters chance of surviving.

you do not NEED a gun to survive. I don't eat, hoard, or hide every bit of food. only enough to fill my canteen and belly then a couple cans in my pack. the rest is left for other survivors.

melee weapons I leave alone as well. everyone deserves to have a Zed Whacker and shouldn't be totally defenseless.

but ammunition and guns... yes, nine times out of ten I'll ditch them in the back yard or other side of the fence.

I don't make it a point to empty entire villages or whole areas of ammo/guns, that's overkill. but if they're on my path I'll tuck them out of the way.

I play (mostly lol) with a "what would I do if this were real?" mentality. and if this we're happening in real life I can honestly say I wouldn't be leaving things like that laying around in the open for someone else to find.

not having a gun has never ruined my gaming experience, in fact it's made surviving more of a reward.

[Griz2 77]

not really...

I can't speak for anyone else. but when i ditch guns and ammo that I don't need or want there's no malice or spite involved.

this is a survival sim and one less gun or stack of ammo in someone else's pack increases my characters chance of surviving.

you do not NEED a gun to survive. I don't eat, hoard, or hide every bit of food. only enough to fill my canteen and belly then a couple cans in my pack. the rest is left for other survivors.

melee weapons I leave alone as well. everyone deserves to have a Zed Whacker and shouldn't be totally defenseless.

but ammunition and guns... yes, nine times out of ten I'll ditch them in the back yard or other side of the fence.

I don't make it a point to empty entire villages or whole areas of ammo/guns, that's overkill. but if they're on my path I'll tuck them out of the way.

I play (mostly lol) with a "what would I do if this were real?" mentality. and if this we're happening in real life I can honestly say I wouldn't be leaving things like that laying around in the open for someone else to find.

not having a gun has never ruined my gaming experience, in fact it's made surviving more of a reward.

 

I don't see this game as a survival simulator or a realism simulator. If it was, there wouldn't be zombies everywhere and the safest thing to do would be to run into the forest, live off the land and stay away from any area that other survivors are likely to be. At the end of the day, it's just a game and you're still trying to justify taking away from other players' experience to fulfill your own requirements. To me it's no different than KoSing everyone you see or hacking. You give nothing back, just take for yourself. And as I mentioned before, it's just a game. It's no big deal if you die. Take some risks, it's more fun when you do. I think the chances of you passing up a gun and another player actually finding it and killing you with it are much smaller than, say, glitching off stairs or a ladder or something, but you don't avoid those.

 

Play the game as you wish, you paid for it. Just don't expect me to respect your playstyle if you do dickish things. Hiding every gun you come across so others can't have them because of the miniscule chance that you may be shot with them negatively affects other players' experience. There's no legitimizing that. We have all looted airfields, police stations, etc. only to find that every scrap of ammo or weaponry has been looted/dumped. Nobody likes that. I'm usually a friendly player but I'd go out of my way to kill someone I caught doing that, as would many other players. You might even say that doing so actually increases your chances of being shot by others :P