Underground Features

[degude 133]

Hi,

 

I really like the idea of basements and underground structures and it seems I'm not the only one, there have been several suggestions about this topic. But what comes up every time is that some people say it's not possible, some say it is.

 

I've been searching for answers but so far the only explanation I got was that the terrain only allows a single y coordinate for each (x,y), but if that's true couldn't you make a hole in the terrain and then just "insert" a basement structure? Or place a structure in a way that "creates" and underground.

 

 

So can anybody explain me the problem with underground bases? I don't mind if it's complex or hard to understand, I'll look up everything I don't know.

 

[Conrad_The_Comrade 577]

If I'm reading this right (I'm pretty sure I'm not) you would need a "z" coordinate and whatnot, x and y would just cover N,S,E,W, not up and down. Correct me if I'm wrong, or tell me if this isn't even near what you're trying to get at. xD

 

Edit: Oh and I'm pretty sure underground structures are possible considering they've already made a few :P

Edited October 28, 2014 by Stryker7x

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

I am in support of the thought, however you earned beans strictly off the artwork.

[ld-airgrafix 403]

im sure the engine has some sort of terrain modelling tool.

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

I've yet to see the new bunkers and if this is true or not, but most games with terrian can only have one 'level'.  Your first drawing pretty much sums it up, but terrain is usally made so it can't be a 90-degree drop.  So it would look more like

__ :House      : __

    \:Basement:/

So you would need a bit of overlap between the house's wall and the terrian, otherwise you'd fall between the walls of the basement and the terrain.  Some games would do this very well, some better than others.  In Second Life most land owners will use prims to act as artificial terrain.  Usually this means a flat box shape to cover the hole which looks a little ugly when it meets the real terrain when you go from smooth as glass grass and dirt to bumpy grass and dirt, though some rather cool things have been done with sculpted prims.  In he case of your green mountain sketch, there would be a HUGE \___/ cut into the top of the base which would have to be replicated.

[Forrelist 236]

If you ever played Namalsk for DayZ Mod (my favourite DayZ mod) the developer that made it had actually somehow managed to make a completely subterrianian complex.

 

I think it was called Object A2 or so, and it spawned various high end military loot, making it a common pvp hotspot. You went into a bunker, climbed a ladder down and you were in a stalker-esque area with abandoned soviet-style computer stations etc.

 

Not a clue how they managed to do it, given the map restrictions - but I don't think it would be impossible by any means.

[snwh 24]

Yeah, there are definitely some underground structures in the game right now.

 

But I am 100% for things like basements. That radio tower looking thing is pretty cool too. But with Barricading, a basement would make a great base.

 

I think they can make them.

 

The question is, will basements be added to normal houses or not? adding them to more than a few houses will probably be a lot of work. I suspect they would need to modify the terrain around every house they wanted to add a basement to.

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

But I am 100% for things like basements. That radio tower looking thing is pretty cool too. But with Barricading, a basement would make a great base.

Or a tomb, if they add some more zombies ;)

---

Basements, might be nice if they provide another entrance\exit into buildings. Although from what I seen close quarter game play isn't that exciting for that.

To me the most appealing thing about underground, is playing in the dark. I know that people hate playing at night, but a small dark basement or tunnel might work.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Mor

[Death By Crowbar 1213]

This scares the crap out of me. I'm already scared shitless to go up and down stairs in fire stations, aircraft control towers, etc. Put ladders in those drawings and it'll make me feel much safer!  :lol:

[Geckofrog7 1168]

This scares the crap out of me. I'm already scared shitless to go up and down stairs in fire stations, aircraft control towers, etc. Put ladders in those drawings and it'll make me feel much safer!  :lol:

And ladders are any less frightening? xD

[Bororm 1156]

They said they're adding some underground structures soon (or already did?).

 

Originally they talked about underground bases, so they could do a separate instance for them.  I think the reason behind that was in terms of deforming terrain/creating bases rather than static ones would pretty much require it.

 

I'm not really sure how they'd go about allowing you to create underground bases on the current map.  Maybe as modules it would work where they snap together with basically airlocks, but it would be pretty funky I think.

[hoik 415]

I know in unreal editor you can simply "erase" terrain polygons (they are still there, but no longer have clipping, textures etc). Does this relate in anyway to how things are done in arma? Probably not...

[TheFarm 158]

The developers have confirmed that their pathfinding solution is recast based, so you can read here to understand what is possible:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navigation_mesh

Recast is just a method to dynamically generate or update a navmesh.

It is possible for pathfinding in basements, so the only problem is whether the terrain can be alpha (transparency) mapped. If it cant, then a solution like the OPs first drawing would solve that.

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

They said they're adding some underground structures soon (or already did?).

 

Originally they talked about underground bases, so they could do a separate instance for them.  I think the reason behind that was in terms of deforming terrain/creating bases rather than static ones would pretty much require it.

 

I'm not really sure how they'd go about allowing you to create underground bases on the current map.  Maybe as modules it would work where they snap together with basically airlocks, but it would be pretty funky I think.

They've added some 'bunkers' to the new abandoned military base that's on experimental.  I stay on stable so I've yet to really take a good look at them though from the few vids I've seen they look fairly big.

And yes, they wanted player bases to be underground and instanced, mostly to save on server resources and so there wouldn't be 'abandoned' servers with a poor attempts at base building spread around the map every 20 yards.

[R0B3RTF1SH3R 66]

if the engine or game design cannot value a x,y,z co-ordinate system. then its pretty shit

[fluxley 2228]

This is the method they are currently using for the new military base in experimental. 

And as mentioned already was used in the mod for Namalsk,

One issue that the devs have mentioned with this is that the engine doesn't detect that you are underground so it will be full daylight even if there's no light source, not a show stopper, but it kinda ruins the mood. Hopefully the move to DX11 will allow them to solve that one.

[degude 133]

Thanks for your answers guys, you guys helped me a lot  :thumbsup:

 

Edit: Oh and I'm pretty sure underground structures are possible considering they've already made a few :P

Yeah, there are definitely some underground structures in the game right now.

But right now it's a valley/hole in the terrain, which is covered by a structure, which is like my idea.

 

I've yet to see the new bunkers and if this is true or not, but most games with terrian can only have one 'level'.  Your first drawing pretty much sums it up, but terrain is usally made so it can't be a 90-degree drop.  So it would look more like

__ :House      : __

    \:Basement:/

Of course, because with a 90° drop you'd have more than one y-coordinate for a (x,z)-coordinate. Like you said, there are workarounds for this. You could also let the terrain go inside the wall of the basement, which would ensure, that it's not 90°, right?

 

 

One issue that the devs have mentioned with this is that the engine doesn't detect that you are underground so it will be full daylight even if there's no light source, not a show stopper, but it kinda ruins the mood. Hopefully the move to DX11 will allow them to solve that one.

Does this allow underground structures without the "terrain digging"?

 

 

So is it possible then to create an entrance for an underground structure and then walk "below" the terrain to exit this structure at another point of the map?

[fluxley 2228]

 

 

Does this allow underground structures without the "terrain digging"?

 

 

So is it possible then to create an entrance for an underground structure and then walk "below" the terrain to exit this structure at another point of the map?

 

Sorry, not sure what your question is referring to, do you mean DX11? if so then no, that should just allow for improved lighting when indoors and underground.

 

This should interest you though

 

 

That shows actual underground structures in the VBS2 engine which is related to the ARMA engine, in that they are both based on the Real Virtuality engine. 

No idea if the two engines are comparable nowadays mind, as they branched off from each other back in 2002 i think.

 

Apparently A.I have a real problem navigating near any underground structures though, at least in the arma engine, maybe the changes made to the dayz A.I fix that.

 

So yeah, seems like it's possible, just we don't know how much work it would involve or what other issues it could bring up, But seeing as they are already ripping chunks out the engine and replacing them hopefully this will be something they consider.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Fluxley