Handgun damage

[irishroy 1347]

I know I am just saying that the .357 out of the rossi should not be giving the player rifle range

Nah, Dude :D

Maybe I expressed it a bit wrong, but I never wanted "rifle" range for the R92.

 

It should be a more medium-ranged "revolver", if you know what I mean.

[dvsilverwing 241]

Yeah. I know I know.

But the barrel is still longer than the revolver's.

As you said "and ballistics should reflect that."

longer barrel => more acc + higher velocity

==> higher velocity = "more damage" in the game, maybe?

 

I don't think velocity has anything to do with damage, the way the game's model works. If so, .22 probably wouldn't be so shitty. I'm almost certain every weapons damage, velocity, etc. are worked on and tweaked individually.

[gibonez 3633]

I don't think velocity has anything to do with damage, the way the game's model works. If so, .22 probably wouldn't be so shitty. I'm almost certain every weapons damage, velocity, etc. are worked on and tweaked individually.

 

That is how the arma 2 model worked.

[irishroy 1347]

I don't think velocity has anything to do with damage, the way the game's model works. If so, .22 probably wouldn't be so shitty. I'm almost certain every weapons damage, velocity, etc. are worked on and tweaked individually.

Hm.

 

When the shotgun came out, we also had the speed-loader-problem.

There was a difference between individually loaded shells, and speed-loader-loaded shells.

The speed-loader-loaded shells had ~25% less velocity, I think.

 

This resulted in a noticeably lower damage. Sometimes the shotgun one-hit-killed Zeds, sometimes not.

 

I think this is an indicator, that velocity also determines damage ;)

Edited October 12, 2014 by irishroy

[dvsilverwing 241]

Hm.

 

When the shotgun came out, we also had the speed-loader-problem.

There was a difference between individually loaded shells, and speed-loader-loaded shells.

The speed-loader-loaded shells had ~25% less velocity, I think.

 

This resulted in a noticeably lower damage. Sometimes the shotgun one-hit-killed Zeds, sometimes not.

 

I think this is an indicator, that velocity also determines damage ;)

 

With this being the case, then I don't think they should actually up the velocity on the Rossi. The Magnum is already very powerful and kills in what, 2 hits usually? I don't think the Rossi really needs to be an OHK, I feel like a 2-3 hit kill is fine for a pistol caliber brush-gun, I really don't want to see it as a Blaze or Mosin competitor. Rather, I'd rather it be in the same class as the CZ (which I never actually see being used, considering as I mentioned earlier, you'll rarely ever find a CZ AND a magazine for it before finding a better weapon and ditching the CZ).

Edited October 13, 2014 by dvsilverwing

[-Gews- 7443]

It may play a factor, but I don't think it 100% determines damage. Again, if so, why would .22 be doing so much less damage than .380? There has to be other variables at play.

The initial velocity doesn't matter, changes in velocity matter (per ammo type). They may have since changed this but I doubt it. irishroy is correct, according to that system the carbine should do 1.5x revolver damage. Compare to other existing damages, now there would be a balance problem.

[dvsilverwing 241]

The initial velocity doesn't matter, changes in velocity matter (per ammo type). They may have since changed this but I doubt it. irishroy is correct, according to that system the carbine should do 1.5x revolver damage. Compare to other existing damages, now there would be a balance problem.

 

I really feel like just a reduced spread and improved ammo capacity of the carbine would be enough to make it worthwhile.

[-Gews- 7443]

I really feel like just a reduced spread and improved ammo capacity of the carbine would be enough to make it worthwhile.

Maybe so, but fact is a 20" carbine will fire the same .357 round 600 ft/s faster than a 6" Python with 125% greater energy. It's not realistic to keep the damage on the same level for both.

Here is Winchester ballistics for the same .357 load in revolver and rifle. It's just the basic 158-gr Super-X, #X3575P.

4" revolver: 1,235 ft/s velocity and 535 ft lb energy

20" rifle: 1,830 ft/s velocity and 1,175 ft lb energy

[Evil Minion 943]

You can find quite some charts. Here is one:

I really think a different barrel length should affect damage. This could be easily done by adding a "ballistic" value to each weapon and multiply damage/bullet velocity. If a round would do 1000 damage a weapon with 0.9 ballistic value would deal 900. To counteract the disadvantage for shorter weapons (especially handguns) they could also add a weight value (with all implications like different recoil or sway) and/or simply increase dexterity. Everything else could be handled by the ballistics mechanics.

As for current handgun damage: Right now .45 ACP does way too much damage compared to all other cartridges - it should be nerfed to 7.5 (from 9) when using the table from above.

[foxdie_01 121]

I believe theres a standard base amount of damage any gun does. with pistols is 500, rifles 2000 etc, Then its modified by the type of round, velocity etc to come to a more varied figure. 

[hotcakes 348]

protips:

 

5.56 < .45/=357 < 7.62x39

 

yes this is dayz no i am not lie

Edited October 13, 2014 by hotcakes

[Finchtastic 50]

Yeah. I know I know.

But the barrel is still longer than the revolver's.

As you said "and ballistics should reflect that."

longer barrel => more acc + higher velocity

==> higher velocity = "more damage" in the game, maybe?

 

 

I think they should introduce different grain bullets, so then the velocity will really matter..The heavier the round, the more shock damage it deals.  or something like that.

[DURRHUNTER 597]

 

 

But I'm a bit "worried"/mad, because the Repeater does the same "damage" as the Magnum, even though the barrel is like 2-3x as long, which increases the velocity (and therefore the impact(=daml

LazyZ devs are being LazyZ

[dvsilverwing 241]

Maybe so, but fact is a 20" carbine will fire the same .357 round 600 ft/s faster than a 6" Python with 125% greater energy. It's not realistic to keep the damage on the same level for both.

Here is Winchester ballistics for the same .357 load in revolver and rifle. It's just the basic 158-gr Super-X, #X3575P.

4" revolver: 1,235 ft/s velocity and 535 ft lb energy

20" rifle: 1,830 ft/s velocity and 1,175 ft lb energy

 

 

When you're talking about boosting the damage of a round that usually two hit kills, where is there to go? You can either boost the damage to where it's just at the cusp and still a two hit kill despite having increased damage (which wouldn't be a noticeable "buff", really) or you can make it an OHK. I understand the realism aspect, but with something like this it's important to take balance into account. I'd be very disappointed to see the Rossi become the meta civilian firearm in the game.

Edited October 13, 2014 by dvsilverwing

[hotcakes 348]

When you're talking about boosting the damage of a round that usually two hit kills, where is there to go? You can either boost the damage to where it's just at the cusp and still a two hit kill despite having increased damage (which wouldn't be a noticeable "buff", really) or you can make it an OHK. I understand the realism aspect, but with something like this it's important to take balance into account. I'd be very disappointed to see the Rossi become the meta civilian firearm in the game.

 

they can do it this way:

1. keep the retard velocities so that the rossi is 360 m/s like the magnum, aka useless for long range

2 nerf .45 ACP and .357 so they're no longer stronger than 5.56 (lol) and increase their strength according to barrel length. In fact this should've been the way in the first place.

[irishroy 1347]

 

When you're talking about boosting the damage of a round that usually two hit kills, where is there to go? You can either boost the damage to where it's just at the cusp and still a two hit kill despite having increased damage (which wouldn't be a noticeable "buff", really) or you can make it an OHK. I understand the realism aspect, but with something like this it's important to take balance into account. I'd be very disappointed to see the Rossi become the meta civilian firearm in the game.

 

 

 

With this being the case, then I don't think they should actually up the velocity on the Rossi. The Magnum is already very powerful and kills in what, 2 hits usually? I don't think the Rossi really needs to be an OHK, I feel like a 2-3 hit kill is fine for a pistol caliber brush-gun, I really don't want to see it as a Blaze or Mosin competitor. Rather, I'd rather it be in the same class as the CZ (which I never actually see being used, considering as I mentioned earlier, you'll rarely ever find a CZ AND a magazine for it before finding a better weapon and ditching the CZ).

 

 

I am not wanting to increase the DAMAGE of the .357 fired by a Winchester.

 

 

I just want a higher velocity!

 

With a higher velocity (and therefore slightly higher dmg) the Rossi 92 WILL NOT BE a long-range-sniper-hurr-durr-rifle!

It is still more inaccurate than the Mosin. The Mosin still has a LRS, while the R92 has Ironsights.

The R92's .357 (even with higher velocity and therefore dmg) will not be as strong and as fast as the Mosin-rounds.

 

==> Sniper-wannabes will still use the Mosin for long-range.

 

TBH, I see almost NO problems with increasing the velocity of the R92-fired.357-rounds.

They still have ~30-40% less speed than 7.62. They still do much less damage than a 7.62. The R92 is more incaccurate than the Mosin...

[Whyherro123 2283]

When you're talking about boosting the damage of a round that usually two hit kills, where is there to go? You can either boost the damage to where it's just at the cusp and still a two hit kill despite having increased damage (which wouldn't be a noticeable "buff", really) or you can make it an OHK. I understand the realism aspect, but with something like this it's important to take balance into account. I'd be very disappointed to see the Rossi become the meta civilian firearm in the game.

There is no balance in real life. For a game that prides itself on "realism", there should definitely be no artificial balancing of firearms. They should be balanced based upon how they perform in the "real world". 

[-Gews- 7443]

When you're talking about boosting the damage of a round that usually two hit kills, where is there to go? You can either boost the damage to where it's just at the cusp and still a two hit kill despite having increased damage (which wouldn't be a noticeable "buff", really) or you can make it an OHK. I understand the realism aspect, but with something like this it's important to take balance into account. I'd be very disappointed to see the Rossi become the meta civilian firearm in the game.

Yes, it would easily be a one-shot kill (mod Winchester was one-shot knockout sub-50m).

Then it would be far more powerful than 7.62x39 and close to 7.62x54R. So the damage have to be all rearranged. It's not realistic or balanced to have it so high.

Apart from velocity change a problem is handgun and rifle damage is inconsistent with each other. 357 and 45 ACP are already way more powerful than 5.56 and 90% as powerful as 7.62x39. Rifle damages 5.56, 7.62x39, 7.62x54R basically follow level of energy, handguns don't.

The whole thing is messed up this way. Can't remain the same, can't be corrected, everything needs to be redone to fix it.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Yes, it would easily be a one-shot kill (mod Winchester was one-shot knockout sub-50m).

Then it would be far more powerful than 7.62x39 and close to 7.62x54R. So the damage have to be all rearranged. It's not realistic or balanced to have it so high.

Apart from velocity change a problem is handgun and rifle damage is inconsistent with each other. 357 and 45 ACP are already way more powerful than 5.56 and 90% as powerful as 7.62x39. Rifle damages 5.56, 7.62x39, 7.62x54R basically follow level of energy, handguns don't.

The whole thing is messed up this way. Can't remain the same, can't be corrected, everything needs to be redone to fix it.

 

ALL of the ballistics in this game are seriously screwed up.