.38 special

[gibonez 3633]

 

Pretty simple suggestion.

 

Add 38 special to the game with the appropriate muzzle velocity and damage.

 

The benefits of adding .38 special are the following.

 

+ Lots more gun variety possible due to how prevalent .38 special has been throughout history

+ compatible with .357 magnum weapons

+ Can allow for .357 magnum to be made far more rare

 

Any weapons they add in .38 special such as older revolvers should chamber .357 magnum also but firing .357 magnum out of a .38 special weapon should potentially result in the gun exploding and at the very least the gun becoming damaged.

 

If added the .38 special should be far far more common than .357 magnum.

[alexeistukov 272]

"Can't run from a .38, Go ahead and try"

[roguetrooper 201]

Usually you can't chamber a .38 special revolver with .357 ammo since it is bigger than the chamber (to prevent accidents). Further, it is not recommended to shoot a lot of .38 special ammo with a .357 revolver since it slowly damages the chambers.

Edited October 10, 2014 by RogueTrooper

[stielhandgranate 480]

Man, we just won the 5.45x45 war not too long ago. Are we up to convince the devs to add another caliber?

[gibonez 3633]

Man, we just won the 5.45x45 war not too long ago. Are we up to convince the devs to add another caliber?

 

Why not.

 

the "5.45x39" war probably just means they no longer plan on streamlining aspects of the game for the sake of casual gamers.

 

So this in turn would mean adding more calibers would not matter. 1 new caliber or 10 new calibers it wouldn't matter.

[a_ruttle 199]

Man, we just won the 5.45x45 war not too long ago. Are we up to convince the devs to add another caliber?

I always thought the caliber thing was just an issue of it being early in development and there being bigger priorities at the time, It would be nonsensical to take a hardcore game like dayz and dumb it down because people are too lazy/stupid to use the 'inspect' fuction on their weapon/ammo or google, or even just play by trial and error for the 40 minutes it takes to learn how to play.

[stielhandgranate 480]

I always thought the caliber thing was just an issue of it being early in development and there being bigger priorities at the time, It would be nonsensical to take a hardcore game like dayz and dumb it down because people are too lazy/stupid to use the 'inspect' fuction on their weapon/ammo or google, or even just play by trial and error for the 40 minutes it takes to learn how to play.

 

Chris T made a statement about not wanting to "Bloat" the rate of ammo spawns and the AK-74 would be chambered in 5.56, if at all and was very hesitant to have two types of 7.62 (7.62x52 and 7.62x39) ammo in game because casuals were too lazy to read the in game item description. There was a huge upset on the forums and other dayz discussion outlets and it seems the Dev team changed their opinion of the matter.

[agouti 105]

You're making a stand for the .38spl over the 7.62 tok gibonez?

[gibonez 3633]

You're making a stand for the .38spl over the 7.62 tok gibonez?

 

Why not both.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I see .38 Special being more akin to having 12 gauge slugs and pellets rather than truly being two new calibers. Practically any .357 Magnum gun can use .38 Special, so at the very least they could implement it as a lower powered and more common alternative to .357 ammo. There are also plenty of .38 caliber revolvers that would be interesting to include along the Python.

 

 

 

 

Single Action Army variant, in .38 Special & .357 Magnum

 

Colt Detective Special - .38 Special

MP-412 REX, in .357 Magnum & .38 Special. It's not really realistic considering it never went into full production, but it is a Russian revolver so it's got that.

S&W Model 28 - Essentially a Model 29, but in .357 Magnum.

COP-357 Derringer, 4 shot "pepperbox" pistols in .357 Magnum, mostly used with .38 Special

Hell, even the RG17 Derringer, the basis for the one to be implemented soon, uses .38 Special, not .357 Magnum.

 

 

Plenty of cool classics and modern guns that could be done with .357 Magnum & .38 Special together, so why the hell not?

Edited October 12, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[-Gews- 7443]

so why the hell not?

 

Little redundant no? They've made it clear the don't want to have too many confusing ammo types, even to the point of ignoring reality. Who knows? Maybe slugs were removed for that reason too.

 

Are they really going to add something the exact same as .357, only with a 0.135" shorter case? All potential .38 firearms have .357 Magnum equivalents and unlike many guns using 7.62x25mm/9x18mm/5.45x39mm/7.62x54mmR they are not essential or highly desirable given [1] "authenticity and realism" or [2] the setting and atmosphere, and in fact, many .38 Specials would be severely out of place.

 

Then there is the fact firearm recoil is defined in the gun, ie: without redoing that part of the engine or adding undesirable external scripts they are not going to be able to change the recoil to account for the weaker round.

 

Most players would probably see it and be asking "why is this even in? It's just .357, but crappier, what's the point?" So much for ammo streamlining.

 

Jussayin'.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Little redundant no? They've made it clear the don't want to have too many confusing ammo types, even to the point of ignoring reality. Who knows? Maybe slugs were removed for that reason too.

 

Are they really going to add something the exact same as .357, only with a 0.135" shorter case? All potential .38 firearms have .357 Magnum equivalents and unlike many guns using 7.62x25mm/9x18mm/5.45x39mm/7.62x54mmR they are not essential or highly desirable given [1] "authenticity and realism" or [2] the setting and atmosphere, and in fact, many .38 Specials would be severely out of place.

 

Then there is the fact firearm recoil is defined in the gun, ie: without redoing that part of the engine or adding undesirable external scripts they are not going to be able to change the recoil to account for the weaker round.

 

Most players would probably see it and be asking "why is this even in? It's just .357, but crappier, what's the point?" So much for ammo streamlining.

 

Jussayin'.

I have a feeling you're saying this in a semi-mocking response to my usual standpoint on calibers, though you do have a point.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure we've got 5.45x39mm & 7.62x54mmR confirmed, so they're not really necessary in that segment of your argument (5.45 for sure). Neither of them would inherently be common in an Eastern European country, so I'd reckon they could make .38 Special the more commonly spawning ammunition. I don't know, I remember them saying .38 special would be added back when the Magnum was first implemented, so I was just building on that.

 

Slugs were removed because they didn't work, but my comparison between .357 and .38 was not totally accurate in them being variants of the same type of ammunition. At some point I'd like to see more 12 gauge ammunition - slugs (obviously), beanbag rounds, and flechettes.

 

 

Though yes if I had to pick I'd add 7.62x25mm over .38 special simply because you can, quite literally, do almost every .38 gun in .357 magnum (and I don't think were going to have hundreds of revolvers anyway), whereas there are plenty of properties unique to 7.62x25mm that would make it more worthwhile as a whole to add it rather than take obscure 9x19mm copies/variants that don't necessarily hold the same performance.

 

Hell, the fact that a 7.62x25mm can travel through vests that can stop .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, and even rifle ammunition is absolutely insane, and it wasn't even designed to penetrate kevlar (which didn't exist at the time.) [To be fair, it has far less stopping power than the rest, so the best application would be penetration, not overpowering.]

Edited October 12, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[gibonez 3633]

Hell, the fact that a 7.62x25mm can travel through vests that can stop .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, and even rifle ammunition is absolutely insane, and it wasn't even designed to penetrate kevlar (which didn't exist at the time.) [To be fair, it has far less stopping power than the rest, so the best application would be penetration, not overpowering.]

 

Yup that truly was an amazing round not entirely sure why the soviets replaced it with the 9x18.

 

I can only imagine how good the 7.62x25 would perform against modern armor due to modern bullet technology.

[dvsilverwing 241]

With all these ammo and weapon suggestions, I again make the suggestion that weapons should be spawning with a single, empty magazine. Finding the right kind of weapon, magazine, and ammo in an area on the same server is very implausible, and definitely contributes to the problem of server hopping (specifically at the military areas). On top of that, I again state that nobody in their right mind owns a weapon without owning the magazine for it, or a magazine without owning the weapon to which it belongs.

 

 

 

I can only imagine how good the 7.62x25 would perform against modern armor due to modern bullet technology.

 

 

Not very well, it is now one of the "special threat" rounds tested by NIJ standards.

Edited October 12, 2014 by dvsilverwing

[-Gews- 7443]

I have a feeling you're saying this in a semi-mocking response to my usual standpoint on calibers, though you do have a point.

A bit ;) but I do think .38 Special is unnecessary compared to various other calibers. 7.62x25 and 9x18, .32 ACP and maybe .25 ACP too would all be either equal or preferable IMO while providing more firearms albeit no revolvers. .357 and .38 are tied. But from gameplay perspective alone, .38 is unnecessary. And also I don't really want to see Colt Detective Specials and various other firearms in Chernarus, a couple modern revolvers okay... a couple. With revolvers in the game, .38 is necessary for "authenticity" but then so is .357, both are very popular.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure we've got 5.45x39mm & 7.62x54mmR confirmed, so they're not really necessary in that segment of your argument (5.45 for sure).

Did any dev confirm this? I have read this on here but I haven't seen a source. Neither of them would inherently be common in an Eastern European country, so I'd reckon they could make .38 Special the more commonly spawning ammunition. I don't know, I remember them saying .38 special would be added back when the Magnum was first implemented, so I was just building on that.

 

Slugs were removed because they didn't work, but my comparison between .357 and .38 was not totally accurate in them being variants of the same type of ammunition. At some point I'd like to see more 12 gauge ammunition - slugs (obviously), beanbag rounds, and flechettes.

I'm not so sure about that, I can't think of a good reason slugs wouldn't work. I know initially they did not work but it should have been a very simple task to fix it. It should only have to do with config - if the gun can fire any kind of ammunition - it should fire slugs. And did they not temporarily change the shotgun ammo to single projectile slugs a few patches ago when proper buckshot ceased to work?

[Chaingunfighter 917]

A bit ;) but I do think .38 Special is unnecessary compared to various other calibers. 7.62x25 and 9x18, .32 ACP and maybe .25 ACP too would all be either equal or preferable IMO while providing more firearms albeit no revolvers. .357 and .38 are tied. But from gameplay perspective alone, .38 is unnecessary. And also I don't really want to see Colt Detective Specials and various other firearms in Chernarus, a couple modern revolvers okay... a couple. With revolvers in the game, .38 is necessary for "authenticity" but then so is .357, both are very popular.

You cheeky bastard you :P.

And you do have a point, from a combined gameplay and realistic perspective there aren't too many revolvers that really fit the setting but also make sense to add under the current development mentality towards calibers. Most of the ones I suggested are notable, but not realistic; Detective Specials, Single Action Armys, COP-357s, and S&W Model 28s are unlikely to be found (though Smith & Wesson revolvers are more likely than the others), and the MP-412 is Russian but never went into production, so it's pretty much the least realistic of them all.

 

That's not to mention that almost none of what I posted actually requires .38 special, so even if they wanted most of those guns, they wouldn't need that ammo. I'd definitely take .32 ACP and 7.62x25mm long before .38 Special (In fact I'd almost rather have .32 ACP and 9x18mm Makarov over .380 ACP, because with both of them combined you get far more firearms and most .380 ones, and they're both more realistic)

 

The only truly realistic revolver I can think of is the Nagant M1895, but that was shot down because it uses an essentially weapon-specific caliber, so the only incentive the devs would have to add it is that it's realistic

Did any dev confirm this? I have read this on here but I haven't seen a source. Neither of them would inherently be common in an Eastern European country, so I'd reckon they could make .38 Special the more commonly spawning ammunition. I don't know, I remember them saying .38 special would be added back when the Magnum was first implemented, so I was just building on that.

I recall awhile back, right after .357 Magnum was added to the loot spawns, one of the devs was inquired as to whether .38 special would be added at some point, and it was given an answer along the lines of "yes".

(I'm assuming you were intending to quote my line about .38 special there but screwed it up somehow. Were you really talking about 5.45x39mm and 7.62x54mmR being confirmed, 5.45x39mm has been outright stated, especially with the confirmation of the AKS-74U and AK-74M. 7.62x54mmR is a little more tentative but I've been under the assumption that it's planned because they renamed the ammunition to "7.62mm round(s)" and have a mix of the two in terms of weaponry)

 

I'm not so sure about that, I can't think of a good reason slugs wouldn't work. I know initially they did not work but it should have been a very simple task to fix it. It should only have to do with config - if the gun can fire any kind of ammunition - it should fire slugs. And did they not temporarily change the shotgun ammo to single projectile slugs a few patches ago when proper buckshot ceased to work?

I don't recall them ever being fixed, so there was probably a larger reason for them removing it.

 

And technically, yes, but they accomplished that simply by largely increasing the amount of damage and accuracy per pellet, so that people could still use the shotgun. It wasn't really changed to slugs.

 

I honestly think the largest reason for them not being included was because of the problems with hand-loading ammunition they've been having. You already had to fire off all shots in order to reload as is, and there may have just been more problems than it was worth when you tried to include two different types of ammunition within the "magazine" (tube). I have a feeling now that we're getting more hand-loaded weapons and guns that slugs would be more useful to (ala the MP-133), we'll see more variants introduced as the issue sees progress.