Homemade phosgene gas grenade

[warrenpeace 38]

When burned (so I've been told), R-12 refrigerant (commonly used in automobile A/C systems until being phased out by R-134 [though possibly still in use in third-world countries]) turns into phosgene gas. Phosgene may mean nothing to a layman, but perhaps you've heard of another name for it: mustard gas.

 

So this got me thinking...

 

What if you duct-taped a lit flare or a butane torch to a big can of R-12, poked a hole in it, and either threw it or ran for your life? Instant gas grenade.

 

The recipe would require either a large can or a small can of R-12 (which could also be used for cars when they get implemented), some duct-tape, and an ignition source like a flare. Just toss the thing (provided it's not some huge 30-lb thing of it) and you get instant WWI chemical warfare goodness, it'd even give gas masks a better reason to be found and used.

 

So what do you guys say?

 

 

[leviski 2152]

Would be a cool implementation if the gasmask could prevent its effects.

[nettles 396]

I'd rather just pee on my handkerchief and wear it around my face like usual.

[Red_Ensign 990]

I'd rather just pee on my handkerchief and wear it around my face like usual.

 

that's so 100 years ago.

[nettles 396]

that's so 100 years ago.

 

And gas masks aren't?  You hush and let me justify my pee-rag

[Geckofrog7 1168]

I'd love to see everyone's smugness as they throw a gas grenade, not knowing that their gas mask needs a filter.

[dvsilverwing 241]

Too bad the Czech M10 masks in-game are only rated for Tear Gas use at best. Not to mention they're so old the seals on them are most likely compromised and the filters gone bad.

 

I'd rather see them add an M40 to helicopter crashes with the other NATO gear, and CS Grenades to the crashes and police loot spawns (stations and cars).

Edited October 4, 2014 by dvsilverwing

[a_ruttle 199]

Would be a cool implementation if the gasmask could prevent its effects.

Mustard gas is a blister agent, it works on skin contact as well as ingestion/inhalation.

[Askelon 36]

Too bad the Czech M10 masks in-game are only rated for Tear Gas use at best. Not to mention they're so old the seals on them are most likely compromised and the filters gone bad.

 

I'd rather see them add an M40 to helicopter crashes with the other NATO gear, and CS Grenades to the crashes and police loot spawns (stations and cars).

I'd like to see the  PBF Gasmask, as they are still in use in several Eastern Bloc countries. You could find them in Police Stations.

I'd like them to add lots of various gas masks actually.

 

I'd love to see everyone's smugness as they throw a gas grenade, not knowing that their gas mask needs a filter.

That'd be hilarious.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Askelon

[agentstaple 29]

I would love gas grenades. imagine seeing someone go upstairs in a pub and throwing a gas grenade up after them a few seconds later, the pub ends up filled with gas and the guy is stuck up there.

 

If he trys to run out - shoot him while he's disorientated.

 

If he trys to stay up there, He dies or takes serious injuries, you wait for the smoke to clear and go finish him with your bat.

 

 

This could be useful in a lot of situations, of course it would have to be quite rare and counterable. If the guy upstairs quickly made a rag and ran outside he would take minimal damage, which is why you'd be waiting to shoot him as he comes through the smoke.

[Askelon 36]

This could be useful in a lot of situations, of course it would have to be quite rare and counterable. If the guy upstairs quickly made a rag and ran outside he would take minimal damage, which is why you'd be waiting to shoot him as he comes through the smoke.

As stated before, one does not simply use a rag for Mustard Gas. You'd have to be wearing a gas mask, and have your skin covered. In addition, the gas mask has to functional, with a filter that has not expired.

 

Non-lethal agents and agents that only kill when inhaled would be far easier to counter.

[agentstaple 29]

I know, I meant it as a desperate attempt to escape. Like, you could hold your breath and cover your mouth/nose with a rag and run through the gas for 3 seconds and your lungs shouldn't be damaged, your skin certainly would though. You would be in pain and lose health but you could survive alone.

 

If caught off gaurd though and you don't have time to hold your breath (make a rag and cover your mouth, think of it as the ingame action) and you inhale a load of the gas then you're gonna be hitting the floor coughing and choking. I don't think it should kill you instantly but your chance of survival without medical help is slim.

 

 

A poor quality gas mask could have the same effect (protecting your eyes and lungs for a few seconds, so you are already prepared for it) while with a high quality mask the gas would have no effect.

[agentstaple 29]

So it turns out mustard gas is no where near as fast acting as I thought. It takes 2-4 hours for severe exposure to show any signs.

 

 

-----------

Immediate signs and symptoms of sulfur mustard exposure

• Exposure to sulfur mustard usually is not fatal. When sulfur mustard was used during World War I, it killed fewer than 5% of the people who were exposed and got medical care.
• People may not know right away that they have been exposed, because sulfur mustard may not have a smell or have a smell that might not cause alarm.
• Typically, signs and symptoms do not occur immediately. Depending on the severity of the exposure, symptoms may not occur for up to 24 hours. Some people are more sensitive to sulfur mustard than are other people, and may have signs and symptoms sooner.
• Sulfur mustard can have the following effects on specific parts of the body:
  • Skin: redness and itching of the skin may occur 2 to 48 hours after exposure and may eventually change to yellow blistering of the skin.
  • Eyes: irritation, pain, swelling, and tearing may occur within 3 to 12 hours of a mild to moderate exposure. A severe exposure may cause signs and symptoms within 1 to 2 hours and may include the symptoms of a mild or moderate exposure plus light sensitivity, severe pain, or blindness lasting up to 10 days.
  • Respiratory tract: runny nose, sneezing, hoarseness, bloody nose, sinus pain, shortness of breath, and cough within 12 to 24 hours of a mild exposure and within 2 to 4 hours of a severe exposure.
  • Digestive tract: abdominal pain, diarrhea, fever, nausea, and vomiting.
  • Bone marrow:  decreased formation of blood cells (aplastic anemia) or decreased red or white blood cells and platelets (pancytopenia) leading to weakness, bleeding and infections

 

How people can protect themselves and what they should do if they are exposed to sulfur mustard

• Because no antidote exists for sulfur mustard exposure, the best thing to do is avoid it. Immediately leave the area where the sulfur mustard was released. Try to find higher ground, because sulfur mustard is heavier than air and will settle in low-lying areas.
• If avoiding sulfur mustard exposure is not possible, rapidly remove the sulfur mustard from the body. Getting the sulfur mustard off as soon as possible after exposure is the only effective way to prevent or decrease tissue damage to the body.
• Quickly remove any clothing that has liquid sulfur mustard on it. If possible, seal the clothing in a plastic bag, and then seal that bag inside a second plastic bag.
• Immediately wash any exposed part of the body (eyes, skin, etc.) thoroughly with plain, clean water. Eyes need to be flushed with water for 5 to 10 minutes. Do NOT cover eyes with bandages, but do protect them with dark glasses or goggles.
• If someone has ingested sulfur mustard, do NOT induce vomiting. Give the person some water or milk to drink, if they can swallow.
• Seek medical attention right away.

 

Source - http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/sulfurmustard/basics/facts.asp

-------------

 

I still think it would be a good weapon in dayz, but for different reasons. if exposed you would have to get rid of your clothes and clean yourself thoroughly with water as soon as possible. You could improvise by rinsing yourself with a bottle of water or two but it would be best to go and bathe in a pond, lake or the sea. If you didn't do this the symptoms would start and there would be no cure other than time.

 

Your risk of infection would be increased because of the blisters as well so changing/cleaning your clothes often would be important, as well as cleaning affected areas (wounds).

 

If you carried on wearing the same clothes the effects would only get worse until causing severe infection.

 

Liquid mustard could also be a great poison.

[Askelon 36]

I know, I meant it as a desperate attempt to escape. Like, you could hold your breath and cover your mouth/nose with a rag and run through the gas for 3 seconds and your lungs shouldn't be damaged, your skin certainly would though. You would be in pain and lose health but you could survive alone.

 

If caught off gaurd though and you don't have time to hold your breath (make a rag and cover your mouth, think of it as the ingame action) and you inhale a load of the gas then you're gonna be hitting the floor coughing and choking. I don't think it should kill you instantly but your chance of survival without medical help is slim.

 

 

A poor quality gas mask could have the same effect (protecting your eyes and lungs for a few seconds, so you are already prepared for it) while with a high quality mask the gas would have no effect.

If you mean quality by how damaged it is, then yes.

 

If you mean quality by how well-made the mask is, not so much.

Sure, in pristine condition a high quality mask is usually better than a mass produced one. However, if the filter is expired it won't work at all. If it's damaged, it's worthless. A low quality mask that is functional will still protect you as long as it is rated for whatever kind of chemicals you are handling.

[Askelon 36]

So it turns out mustard gas is no where near as fast acting as I thought. It takes 2-4 hours for severe exposure to show any signs.

 

 

-----------

Immediate signs and symptoms of sulfur mustard exposure

• Exposure to sulfur mustard usually is not fatal. When sulfur mustard was used during World War I, it killed fewer than 5% of the people who were exposed and got medical care.
• People may not know right away that they have been exposed, because sulfur mustard may not have a smell or have a smell that might not cause alarm.
• Typically, signs and symptoms do not occur immediately. Depending on the severity of the exposure, symptoms may not occur for up to 24 hours. Some people are more sensitive to sulfur mustard than are other people, and may have signs and symptoms sooner.
• Sulfur mustard can have the following effects on specific parts of the body:
  • Skin: redness and itching of the skin may occur 2 to 48 hours after exposure and may eventually change to yellow blistering of the skin.
  • Eyes: irritation, pain, swelling, and tearing may occur within 3 to 12 hours of a mild to moderate exposure. A severe exposure may cause signs and symptoms within 1 to 2 hours and may include the symptoms of a mild or moderate exposure plus light sensitivity, severe pain, or blindness lasting up to 10 days.
  • Respiratory tract: runny nose, sneezing, hoarseness, bloody nose, sinus pain, shortness of breath, and cough within 12 to 24 hours of a mild exposure and within 2 to 4 hours of a severe exposure.
  • Digestive tract: abdominal pain, diarrhea, fever, nausea, and vomiting.
  • Bone marrow:  decreased formation of blood cells (aplastic anemia) or decreased red or white blood cells and platelets (pancytopenia) leading to weakness, bleeding and infections

 

How people can protect themselves and what they should do if they are exposed to sulfur mustard

• Because no antidote exists for sulfur mustard exposure, the best thing to do is avoid it. Immediately leave the area where the sulfur mustard was released. Try to find higher ground, because sulfur mustard is heavier than air and will settle in low-lying areas.
• If avoiding sulfur mustard exposure is not possible, rapidly remove the sulfur mustard from the body. Getting the sulfur mustard off as soon as possible after exposure is the only effective way to prevent or decrease tissue damage to the body.
• Quickly remove any clothing that has liquid sulfur mustard on it. If possible, seal the clothing in a plastic bag, and then seal that bag inside a second plastic bag.
• Immediately wash any exposed part of the body (eyes, skin, etc.) thoroughly with plain, clean water. Eyes need to be flushed with water for 5 to 10 minutes. Do NOT cover eyes with bandages, but do protect them with dark glasses or goggles.
• If someone has ingested sulfur mustard, do NOT induce vomiting. Give the person some water or milk to drink, if they can swallow.
• Seek medical attention right away.

 

Source - http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/sulfurmustard/basics/facts.asp

-------------

 

I still think it would be a good weapon in dayz, but for different reasons. if exposed you would have to get rid of your clothes and clean yourself thoroughly with water as soon as possible. You could improvise by rinsing yourself with a bottle of water or two but it would be best to go and bathe in a pond, lake or the sea. If you didn't do this the symptoms would start and there would be no cure other than time.

 

Your risk of infection would be increased because of the blisters as well so changing/cleaning your clothes often would be important, as well as cleaning affected areas (wounds).

 

If you carried on wearing the same clothes the effects would only get worse until causing severe infection.

 

Liquid mustard could also be a great poison.

Other types of gas would be better for the purpose you initially described. Perhaps Chlorine gas.

[agentstaple 29]

I know that in real life, one of the gas masks you get in dayz wouldn't protect you from mustard gas, but for the sake of gameplay, does it matter if it will protect you through a short exposure? Or atleast dampen the effects. Or could we just change the gas mask all together for one that would protect against mustard gas.

 

And by high quality I meant a new gas mask would have to be added, found at chopper sites (someone else here suggested it).

 

Though I think the whole idea is getting a little complicated, if you read my other comment, it takes 2-4 hours for mustard gas to even show any signs of damage. in game that could be taken down to 10-15 minutes minimum like but it's still not that useful.

 

Actually it would still be an excellent deterrent. If you where trying to get away from someone or if you wanted to keep someone from going to a certain place, building or street (depending on how it was implemented), people wouldn't want to have to deal with the effects after the combat, which would be long lasting and incurable (only time would heal the wounds)

Edited October 4, 2014 by Agentstapler

[Askelon 36]

Yes. It could work as an excellent deterrent, considering that you still aren't free until you wash out your clothes, even if you are wearing a gas mask.

 

And yeah, other gas masks, lots of other gas masks, would be nice.

[agentstaple 29]

Differnet gasses like that would be great!

 

You could get a message like "It smells like mustard" or "I smell something strange" something and your character could make sniffing sounds. Chlorine gas is said to smell like "a mixture between pepper and pineapple".

 

So if you knew the gasses you would know how to react to the situation, but if you didn't then you might use a rag to protect yourself against mustard gas and think you are fine because there are no symptons.

[liquidcactus 719]

The idea of the gas masks being useful from gas attacks is a pretty damn exciting one that's for sure... clearing out bandit snipers and such

[agentstaple 29]

Oooh! This could be used to make traps as well!

 

Someone goes into a building and a door trips a wire activating a flare against a can of this gas. a few seconds (10-60, it should be quite random) and the gas can explodes filling a 20ft circle with gas.

 

This could be used for hunting, waiting somewhere to go and loot a market and trip your traps. or it could be used in your barricade, someone opens the door and sets of a timer, a few seconds later while they are looting the house is filled with mustard gas, they'll get a "It smells like mustard in here" msg but a lot of players will ignore it. An hour later they're covered in blisters and coughing up blood.

 

There would obviously need to be a way to disable traps but it would require knowledge of the traps in the first place and maybe tools to disarm them (hunting knife, pliers etc. would depend on the trap)

 

 

I might make a new thread just for traps. I really want traps.