Firearm Concepts

[Evil Minion 943]

I think there are many ways how the game could handle guns for a more in depth experience. Many are discussed in other topics so don't be surprised about some links within the text. The key is to provide a diverse experience and should allow every gun to have a place in game.

 

Variety

I think its good to have a wide variety of different firearms from small calibre handguns to military specialist weapons. However the should be a great difference in rarity - civilian weapons - while still not abundant - should be much more common than military ones and general military weapons (assault rifles, handguns, submachine guns) should be much more common than specialist ones (rocket/grenade launchers, sniper rifles, machine guns).

 

Now dynamics should be determined by cartridge - I think its a good thing to have a limited number of cartridges each being used by a variety of weapons. Weapons using a cartridge only for themselves are worse in terms of dynamics as they don't compete - the ammo will most likely stay there for a user of those specific weapon to find. Here the weapon heavily influences the dynamics whereas a similar weapon sharing ammo with others would provide variety without changing dynamics by too much.

 

Guns in general should be rare and ammo/magazines only slightly more common. Not everyone should have a gun, not everyone who has a gun should have ammo (though most who have a gun and ammo should also have magazines if needed) and most people who do have a gun and ammo won't have many attachments or much spare ammo.

 

Ballistics

Shooting should depend on many factors and advanced ballistics might make shooting more difficult especially under nad weather conditions and over longer distances. A long range sniper kills should require more than patience and point&click. Random dispersion is one aspect because it determines the weapons effective range but there should be multiple skills necessary to land a good shot:

• keeping your weapon and yourself in good condition
• using ammo that is in good condition
• adjusting to exterior factors (wind, weather, distance, target movement etc.)
• adjusting to interior factors (sway, stance, getting your aim on target etc.)
• knowing and adjusting to your weapons effective range

If you manage to fullfill all of those prerequisites you should be rewarded by hitting your target. Not just by "point faster, click faster" - thats how casual games do it. (From this topic.)

 

Hunting

Now thats not something purely related to firearms but there are things to consider:

1. Animals should be shy - just running into the woods with a loaded rifle and a knife should not net you free steaks. Most should flee when they spot you depending on the distance between you. Now animal behaviors should work with a threat level system - the higher your threat level the higher the chance of animals fleeing from you. Threat level might increase if you sport a big backback (you look larger), cause more noise, carry a weapon in your hands (the bigger the higher the threat) and the more people you are. So a cow might be relaxed around a single freshspawn as long as she doesn't walk too close but flee on sight from a group of heavily armed guys. Gunshots should always make animals flee - not just a short distance but far enough that following might not be an option.
2. Animals should be tough. Not unrealistically tough but especially the bigger ones should be significantly harder to kill than a human being. But just as human beings animals should be susceptible to bleeding and have different hit zones. So aiming at the right spot would significantly increase the chance of killing your target or cause bleeding strong enough to bring it down shortly after while just shooting at the animal might cause a wound that is not aggravating enough (depending on the weapon used) causing it to run off or even attack. For reference I think a wolf should be a little less durable than a survivor, red deer on the other hand should be more durable and a brown bear should be pretty dawn tough (e.g. requiring a headshot with a full power round to go down).
3. Animals should defend themselves. There should be some situations that instead of causing them to flee should trigger a self defense mode where the animal tries to kill or knock out the danger. Possible situations are being wounded with the attacker nearby, getting surprised by a close threat, having nowhere to run or simply having a low threat venture too close. Predators might even attempt to stalk and kill a low threat as prey. The different triggers might be specific to species - a bear should be much more likely to attack than a deer (though deer should also be able to attack if driven too far).

The idea behind this is to make hunting more challenging and having the choice of gun as well as your handling affect the outcome of your hunt. Higher precision means you can shoot from further away lowering the chance of driving off your prey. Higher damage would increase your chance of downing your prey - whether in a hunting or self defense scenario. Higher noise would be more likely to drive off more animals but might also scare aggressive ones into fleeing. And the list goes on...

 

Carrying

Its not a good thing that handguns take up more inventory space than rifles or shotguns. So ther should either be a gun sling (which might also allow for carrying more than one gun on your back) or the free slot should also apply to handguns - maybe not by magically glueing them to your back but by magically tucking them inside your pants or just in this position. Really big weapons like anti-materiel rifles might be impossible to be carried on the back requiring the user to hold them in the hands.

 

Holding a weapon in your hands should have two effects: Your movement would be restriced so you might move slower and for the more cumbersome ones it might also reduce your speed when switching stances or turning around.

 

Another idea is to reduce the free slots on a players back form one firearm slot and one melee slot to a single combined one but allow "strapping" another weapon on your back. This would require something like a rope and while allowing to carry the weapon makes it unaccessible until "unstrapped". Both "strapping" and "unstrapping" should not be instant (play an animation) and the weapon should still affect weight/mobility/etc.

 

Self Defense

This is mostly about handguns and holsters - though it should affect all weapons. I believe there should be significant differences in drawing/putting away weapons depending on their size and the way they are carried. So a handgun (or knife) carried in some kind of holster should be very quick while a rifle carried on your back or a handgun carried inside your backpack should be very slow to access. This would give holsters a real use over vests and would also make it more important where to store your gun. Also size should matter - the smaller the weapon the faster. So the fastest weapon to get out would be a knife carried inside a scabbard followed by a handgun carried inside a holster. Taking your rifle from your back on the other side should be very slow and not really suitable for self defense.

 

This way handguns and holsters would serve a greater purpose and more general it would help smaller weapons to compete with their bigger and more powerful counterparts. Sawing off a Mosin or Shotgun would net you a weapon much better suited for emergency situations at the cost of performance loss.

 

Reloading

I think reloading should be done exclusively over the inventory screen or via the reload button ®. Maybe the latter might only use the slots inside your clothes ignoring ammo found in your backpack - or it would just take more time similar to drawing a weapon. Now there should be four basic ways of reloading all covered with this:

• Chambering - pretty simple you put a round inside your weapon. Depending on its capacity you might do this with multiple rounds until the weapon is full. This should be the slowest way of reloading a gun but for weapons without a detachable magazine it should be possible to do this at every time if there is space left.
• Clips/Speedloaders - should be faster than loading each round on its own but only be possible if there is enough space for all of the rounds (for the current instances this means the gun has to be empty). Now depending on the weapon used the clip/speedloader should not end up within a weapon (M1 Garand yes, SKS no) but rather end up as empty clip in your inventory, allowing for refilling the clip or chambering additional shots.
• Magazine - the detachable type. Works just as it does now. You load the magazine you put it inside the gun and you are ready to go. Maybe it could also be possible to chamber a single round (or reload a magazine, then detach it and load one more round) for an additional shot.
• Belt - similar to a Magazine but holds much more rounds. The disadvantages of a belt would be that it might be found empty (so you have to load every single round separately), weapons using belts would have a longer loading time (also applies to chambering them) and that it loses in capacity for every shot fired. So if you are using a halfway filled 200 rounds belt and fire 20 round you will have a 80/180 belt left.

Now Magazines and Clips/Speedloaders should be loaded via chambering. Maybe magazines could also be loaded using stripper clips allowing for faster reloading in combat situations. While chambering takes more time than the current drag&drop mechanic (which does not have to be a bad thing) it would allow for a mixture of used ammo. For example you could load your MP-133 shotgun with both slugs and buckshot, alternating between the types.

 

Attachments

Pretty much detailed here, attachments (including optics and magazines) should affect gun handling. Also instead of being straight upgrades most attachments should provide tradeoffs (e.g. one is better for reducing recoil while another offers more dexterity).

 

Example Handguards:

• Wooden: Provides good recoil and sway reduction
• Polymer: Less recoil reduction but makes the weapon lighter and is best for reducing sway
• Foregrip: Generally weaker in recoil and sway reduction but increases dexterity
• Rail: Slightly weaker than the wooden model (recoil or sway depending on material) but allows for secondary attachments

 

Maintenance

Weapons should degrade over time when used, requiring frequent maintenace to avoid jamming, accuracy loss* or even destruction. Now this should not be a point&click&play on affair but more involved depending on weapon type. Most of the time you would need to disassemble a weapon before cleaning, then take some time to do so (if doing it mid firefight you better take cover and have someone watching your back). Complexity depends on compolexity of the weapon - a single shot or break action would require no disassembling at all while a western automatic rifle would require multiple steps. So the easier your weapon the easier it is to maintain.

 

This introduces another (realistic) dimension of practicability in firearms that may or may not affect peoples choice and might help some designs (e.g. the break action) to stay competitive in certain niches.

 

Another thing closely related would be barrel heating - if you fire many shots in quick succession your barrel heats up, decreasing accuracy* and maybe causing your weapon to degrade faster. Now the speed of this happening would depend on the weapon in question which might be one of the main differences between LMGs and assault rifles. That AKM with bipod and drum mag might might work just fine but in longer firefights the RPD/RPK would be much more reliable.

 

*Accuracy loss means both increased dispersion and bias.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Evil Minion

[Wolfe(^..^) 9]

I have much hope in the devs to eventually implement realistic weapon degradation.  I also dream of wearing a weapon holster underneath my officer's greatcoat that will not be visible but will allow me to pull out my glock with lightning speed. ^_^

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I have much hope in the devs to eventually implement realistic weapon degradation.  I also dream of wearing a weapon holster underneath my officer's greatcoat that will not be visible but will allow me to pull out my glock with lightning speed. ^_^

Yeah, having a compact inside-shirt holster would be awesome, in addition to a leg holster and possibly a hidden ankle holster.

 

If they add any of them, then we're gonna need these guns along with em'

 

 

(COP 357 Derringer, Colt Commander, Glock 26, Colt Single Action Army)

[Evil Minion 943]

As there are "one line" suggestions coming up about weapon mechanics I will bump this as a representative of the all the topics I have linked to.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Evil Minion

[Evil Minion 943]

Added some new things currently colored red.

[Jhunt7507 29]

Here's my suggestion I was thinking of a few days ago. Guns should be found in places where they make sense, not leaned up against a door way.

Hunting weapons should be more common the further you move away from the cities. They should be found under beds and in closets with a few rounds next to them.

Handguns should be found in the cities more than anywhere else. Usually found in a police station or in nightstands of some apartments.

Military grade weapons such as kalashnikov rifles, svds, and even armor piercing and tracer rounds should be found in military bases and crash sites.

[Troll_Hunter 54]

I like the idea of a deep gun handling mechanics.

 

However - as with many suggestions - I fear that some details may take up too much valuable coding time.

 

I like the pistols inside the waistband idea.

Magazines, stripper clips, and single rounds can be fished out of jacket, pants, tactical vests, with "R". - not from the backpack!

Entering one's backpack should be done crouching / standing with an animation, just like in real life.

 

I'm also greatly in favour of having weight playing a big role in the game, affecting speed, sprinting distance, food, water etc. , you know, just like in real life ;)

You see carrying a heavy weapon with a big scope, magazines, ammo takes a lot of effort. People with less weight are more agile and can run much faster for a longer time.

 

Wind compensation would make long distance sniping much more challenging, but people should also be able to judge wind direction and speed in game, swaying vegetation, waves, smoke, rain, flags, birds, mirages, clouds.

 

Perspective.

I get the impression that in the current build the weapons are too far from the camera. If they want to add more realism, add DOF, so that when holding the breath for focusing, the focus shifts from far to the the front post with a narrowing of field of view (=zoom) to simulate concentration.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Troll_Hunter

[gibonez 3633]

Deeper shooting mechanics are absolutely needed.

The more complex and realistic the shooting is the better the game will be.