Sandbox, "innovative" or "Undeveloped"

[Cpanther 221]

I always been wondering what people truly thinks about this new "sandbox" concept, I already seen two companies trying this... CCP and now Bohemia Interactive.

 

This idea of making a game in which you can do whatever you want, with as little rules as possible..seems to be a restrictive, incomplete and undeveloped concept. It feels like developers are using this idea as an excuse to skip things like, Story, Cut scenes, Missions, Plot, Skills tress, Animations, Voice Overs, Dialogues, AI development... in other words... about 60-70% of a normal game development.

 

So...is this "new" concept revolutionary... or an "Undeveloped" concept .. or do i dare to say... "lazy". ?

[t1337dude 101]

I'd say it depends on a case-by-case basis. Sandbox type games aren't new though.

Edited September 30, 2014 by t1337Dude

[Cpanther 221]

I'd say it depends on a case-by-case basis. Sandbox type games aren't new though.

 

They aren't...but this type of sandbox games are. I'm no sure if "less" really is more... because less, really feels like less to me.

[Elle 562]

its not exactly a "new" concept. I have over 10 years in a sandbox mmorpg called entropia universe (was project entropia back in the day) and of course Eve by CCP has been around at least that long, I have about 6 years there. the sandbox concept is what makes them and this game attractive. if you can't make your own story then perhaps you need to find a different game. maybe if other games would shitcan their idea of a "story" and just go with the sandbox concept from the beginning they could put that other "60-70%" of game development into something that amounts to a better game.

[Parazight 1599]

I'd say it depends on a case-by-case basis. Sandbox type games aren't new though.

What he said. Case by case basis.

Your poll is lacking options. It's a not black or white thing. It's not love it or hate it.

[Cpanther 221]

its not exactly a "new" concept. I have over 10 years in a sandbox mmorpg called entropia universe (was project entropia back in the day) and of course Eve by CCP has been around at least that long, I have about 6 years there. the sandbox concept is what makes them and this game attractive. if you can't make your own story then perhaps you need to find a different game. maybe if other games would shitcan their idea of a "story" and just go with the sandbox concept from the beginning they could put that other "60-70%" of game development into something that amounts to a better game.

 

Antropia, never heard of it, and EvE online... well, even that it is "interesting" it feels like is a bit "out of date". With so much technology available, games like DayZ or EvE feels a bit like dinosaur...this sandbox concept feels "undeveloped", and not up to date. So much that it could be done to "enrich" the Sandbox.. and Developers seems to be stuck in the past.

[Cpanther 221]

What he said. Case by case basis.

Your poll is lacking options. It's a not black or white thing. It's not love it or hate it.

To me is a very black and white thing, either you find the concept innovative, or something that needs more development and evolution.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

The only thing lacking is players ability to think for themselves and not be hand held by arrows pointing them to their next objective.  Players imagination is what is underdeveloped. 

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

Undeveloped would mean it was not the intention to create the game this way, I vote innovative/better than only one play through every ten years.

[Cpanther 221]

The only thing lacking is players ability to think for themselves and not be hand held by arrows pointing them to their next objective.  Players imagination is what is underdeveloped. 

 

Fair enough.. and i also hate that too by the way. But... players "thinking" by themselves to find an objective, shouldn't mean that it isn't and objective to be found..and that is where i think the concept is flawed. You can remove the arrows pointing to the next objective.. without removing the objective.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Fair enough.. and i also hate that too by the way. But... players "thinking" by themselves to find an objective, shouldn't mean that it isn't and objective to be found..and that is where i think the concept is flawed. You can remove the arrows pointing to the next objective.. without removing the objective.

I have objectives all the time.  Meeting up with my buddies, find a replacement coat for my ruined one, looking for more ammo as I am running low, hunting animals to make a backpack, looking for a backpack, etc...  Like I said, players can't seem to think for themselves and need to be told what to do.

[Cpanther 221]

I have objectives all the time.  Meeting up with my buddies, find a replacement coat for my ruined one, looking for more ammo as I am running low, hunting animals to make a backpack, looking for a backpack, etc...  Like I said, players can't seem to think for themselves and need to be told what to do.

 

But, one thing is "thinking" what to do... the other thing is having nothing to do...because you are playing a game where nothing never happens. Real life will be boring if "nothing" never happens... a game is the same.. actually... 100 times worst. The idea that the end of the world will be "boring", and you will have to find things to do to entertain yourself.. is... well.....

Edited September 30, 2014 by Cpanther

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

But, one thing is "thinking" what to do... the other thing is having nothing to do...because you are playing a game where nothing never happens. Real life will be boring if "nothing" never happens... a game is the same.. actually... 100 times worst. The idea that the end of the world will be "boring", and you will have to find things to do to entertain yourself.. is... well.....

Hence why it's been dubbed as the "anti-game"

[Cpanther 221]

Hence why it's been dubbed as the "anti-game"

The game that is an anti-game.. but it sells as a game, to gamers... that are not gamers but....are... sorry... i lose the plot. 

 

Is like someone selling you a car with only two wheels, a washing machine motor and without bodywork... and then calling it the "Anti-Car". No one will buy such a car, and people wont think is "Innovative".

Edited September 30, 2014 by Cpanther

[chepaco3290 59]

I always been wondering what people truly thinks about this new "sandbox" concept, I already seen two companies trying this... CCP and now Bohemia Interactive.

 

This idea of making a game in which you can do whatever you want, with as little rules as possible..seems to be a restrictive, incomplete and undeveloped concept. It feels like developers are using this idea as an excuse to skip things like, Story, Cut scenes, Missions, Plot, Skills tress, Animations, Voice Overs, Dialogues, AI development... in other words... about 60-70% of a normal game development.

 

So...is this "new" concept revolutionary... or an "Undeveloped" concept .. or do i dare to say... "lazy". ?

 

I voted "undeveloped" only if the definition includes, as you said, "skip things like, Story, Cut scenes, Missions, Plot, Skills tress, Animations, Voice Overs, Dialogues, AI development..." However, that is not always the case. There are many sandbox titles that are attempting to add to its sandbox. Life Is Feudal is a good example. They made a bold move in introducing RPG elements (skill trees) into their gameplay, and I'd say they've done so quite successfully. 

 

Simply put, not all sandbox games are created equal. Some are more developed than others. 

[Elle 562]

But, one thing is "thinking" what to do... the other thing is having nothing to do...because you are playing a game where nothing never happens. Real life will be boring if "nothing" never happens... a game is the same.. actually... 100 times worst. The idea that the end of the world will be "boring", and you will have to find things to do to entertain yourself.. is... well.....

if you do nothing your character will die. pretty simple. the objective of the game is to keep your character alive. so if you are bored why are you playing?

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

if you do nothing your character will die. pretty simple. the objective of the game is to keep your character alive. so if you are bored why are you playing?

That's the main objective.  I guess the side objectives are how to keep your character alive which is what makes this a sandbox.

[Cpanther 221]

I voted "undeveloped" only if the definition includes, as you said, "skip things like, Story, Cut scenes, Missions, Plot, Skills tress, Animations, Voice Overs, Dialogues, AI development..." However, that is not always the case. There are many sandbox titles that are attempting to add to its sandbox. Life Is Feudal is a good example. They made a bold move in introducing RPG elements (skill trees) into their gameplay, and I'd say they've done so quite successfully. 

 

Simply put, not all sandbox games are created equal. Some are more developed than others. 

 

Yeah, i heard about that game.. and to me that is the "Evolution" of sandbox games. Adding stuff that "enrich" the experience.. without holding people hands or forcing people to play in a specific way... but.. if Skills Trees makes things better, they should be added..so yeah, i think the concept needs more evolution, and innovative ideas.. not the same old ones. 

Edited September 30, 2014 by Cpanther

[Elle 562]

I have objectives all the time.  Meeting up with my buddies, find a replacement coat for my ruined one, looking for more ammo as I am running low, hunting animals to make a backpack, looking for a backpack, etc...  Like I said, players can't seem to think for themselves and need to be told what to do.

and you sir, I can't tell you how much it grates on my nerves to be so much in agreement with you :blink: life is weird sometimes no?  ;)

[blackberrygoo 1416]

Yes some people would rather be pointed in some random direction and told to kill a bunch of people but what's the point in that ? Gamers put hours into beating games to experience all of their content but when you're just grinding objectives you get incredibly bored and hardly immersed which is why mostly all console games end in mediocrity especially if there's no multiplayer .

In a game like skyrim it's a large enough "open world/objective linear game"( meaning you can do many different quests or just blow it off completely and run around killing ) so that it's entertaining for longer than the average linear game , but still after weeks of playing we can still safely say "ok I've played everything in this game now" (unless you play skyrim modded of course , which is highly recommended). So to avoid this you have to do what dayz did and take your time to make it detail oriented and very much so player involved instead of story involved (with multiplayer of course !) , so that instead of whizzing through a story line we have infinite amount of fun as long as we can find something to do , and with the new features coming we will never run out of things to do ..

In a game like Dayz, especially in the state it's in now which is a half complete alpha , many people miss the point in the greatness of this game : it's attention to detail and beauty but most importantly it's encounter mechanics .. In no other game will you be sporting a gun and worrying about your characters well being. In all other shooters or "survival sims" there are no intense moments that pump up your adrenaline as hard as dayz does .. Now mix that with all the features already discussed and promised like zombie hordes, barricades , construction of shelter, vehicles and vehicle repair and you have the perfect apocalypse survival sim / open world sandbox.

When all of this including optimization is complete we will have an amazing atmosphere built from the very simplest of mechanics that are still not utilized by other games (no health bar, easy to die and high adrenaline fire fights due to the "perma death" mechanic of losing all loot upon death) and advanced mechanics (horticulture , working food chain of animals , locking/barricade system, construction system, vehicle repair and maintenance) that although some are in other games , they still won't match the feel of the same mechanics in dayz simply because dayz took it's time to make the gameplay so much more immersive , intense , realistic , and detailed oriented than the dayz mod or any crappy linear objective based game out there .

Sandbox is the next generation of gaming , I really hope ps4 and Xbox One learn from games like dayz and start to develop ALL games for those consoles as a sandbox mmo (or at least just sandbox ) .. As long as you have a good base theme for the game (like apocalypse) and a great attention to detail to make the game as life like as possible you can have an open world objective-less game that's totally sandbox , that's something that I think the game industry (more or less) is realizing must be done to appease gamers now adays which is great because I haven't played an Xbox or playstation game in years simply because I can't do whatever I want in them ..

[Cpanther 221]

if you do nothing your character will die. pretty simple. the objective of the game is to keep your character alive. so if you are bored why are you playing?

 

Because is no reason to be alive....in fact, i do kill myself sometimes because i'm bore. If only life was that simple... you hate you life, just kill yourself and start a new one.

[chepaco3290 59]

Yeah, i heard about that game.. and to me that is the "Evolution" of sandbox games. Adding stuff that "enrich" the experience.. without holding people hands or forcing people to play in a specific way... but.. if Skills Trees makes things better, they should be added..so yeah, i think the concept needs more evolution, and innovative ideas.. not the same old ones. 

 

That's a good way of putting it. It really is the evolution of sandbox games. The whole "sandbox" idea is very new, so we should expect it to evolve as the years progress. With games like Star Citizen coming up, along with Life Is Feudal MMO (TBA), I truly believe that we're seeing the next generation of gaming in the making. 

[Cpanther 221]

Yes some people would rather be pointed in some random direction and told to kill a bunch of people but what's the point in that ? Gamers put hours into beating games to experience all of their content but when you're just grinding objectives you get incredibly bored and hardly immersed which is why mostly all console games end in mediocrity especially if there's no multiplayer .

In a game like skyrim it's a large enough "open world/objective linear game"( meaning you can do many different quests or just blow it off completely and run around killing ) so that it's entertaining for longer than the average linear game , but still after weeks of playing we can still safely say "ok I've played everything in this game now" (unless you play skyrim modded of course , which is highly recommended). So to avoid this you have to do what dayz did and take your time to make it detail oriented and very much so player involved instead of story involved (with multiplayer of course !) , so that instead of whizzing through a story line we have infinite amount of fun as long as we can find something to do , and with the new features coming we will never run out of things to do ..

In a game like Dayz, especially in the state it's in now which is a half complete alpha , many people miss the point in the greatness of this game : it's attention to detail and beauty but most importantly it's encounter mechanics .. In no other game will you be sporting a gun and worrying about your characters well being. In all other shooters or "survival sims" there are no intense moments that pump up your adrenaline as hard as dayz does .. Now mix that with all the features already discussed and promised like zombie hordes, barricades , construction of shelter, vehicles and vehicle repair and you have the perfect apocalypse survival sim / open world sandbox.

When all of this including optimization is complete we will have an amazing atmosphere built from the very simplest of mechanics that are still not utilized by other games (no health bar, easy to die and high adrenaline fire fights due to the "perma death" mechanic of losing all loot upon death) and advanced mechanics (horticulture , working food chain of animals , locking/barricade system, construction system, vehicle repair and maintenance) that although some are in other games , they still won't match the feel of the same mechanics in dayz simply because dayz took it's time to make the gameplay so much more immersive , intense , realistic , and detailed oriented than the dayz mod or any crappy linear objective based game out there .

Sandbox is the next generation of gaming , I really hope ps4 and Xbox One learn from games like dayz and start to develop ALL games for those consoles as a sandbox mmo (or at least just sandbox ) .. As long as you have a good base theme for the game (like apocalypse) and a great attention to detail to make the game as life like as possible you can have an open world objective-less game that's totally sandbox , that's something that I think the game industry (more or less) is realizing must be done to appease gamers now adays which is great because I haven't played an Xbox or playstation game in years simply because I can't do whatever I want in them ..

Funny you used Skyrim as an example...because that is a game that will probably take you a life time to explore all the possibilities, which is why still is one of the most played games in Steam... even that it is only "single" player. And don't even get me started with Morrowind...which to me is one of the best Sandbox games ever made.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Cpanther

[epyionic 29]

Im just going to leave this here

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game

[Cpanther 221]

Im just going to leave this here

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game

This game looks so much like Freelancer, and that was actually a great multi-player game...damn...I didn't knew that it was the same guy making this game...this one is going to be great.