Fundamental Game Issue (Servers).

[Tangled Butthair 2]

I don't know if people even notice this. It's game breaking and it makes the game unplayable. It allows people to simply CHEAT. This issue makes me not want to play DayZ...

 

The unpopulated servers.

The ones that are 0/40. People can go there to "speedrun" the game and get the best gear, backpack full of mags without caring about other people (since the server's empty it's pretty much like single player. You collect gear in single player but use the gear in multiplayer.). Then they go on a populated server with the gear just to PvP and they have advantage over people who are trying to get gear on that populated server. Isn't collecting your gear one of the biggest things that make DayZ? Then why does the game let you collect it alone on the server and then switch to a server full of people. Yes the server switching is what makes public hives public, but that doesn't mean it should be easy and gamebreaking.

 

 

Solution:  Private hives that you're tied to are the best solution of course. But it's not the perfect solution because to play a fair game where everyone has equal chances I have to sacrifice the forum item trade and other features that can only be on public hives.

 

I haven't found a good solution to this yet but I know that the solution must: prevent people from playing on 0/40 servers but at the same time don't force them too much to play on the high populated server and it has to make sense

 

Does anyone have any ideas?

Edited September 7, 2014 by Tangled Butthair

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

I don't think you know what 'Game Breaking' means.  Game breaking would be something like weapons not working at all, falling through terrain constantly to your death, or zombies and players being invisible.  Or even more apt, unexplained and and unavoidable CTD bugs.

[Statik (DayZ) 2695]

That's not exactly game breaking. Annoying, sure, but we've dealt with it for years.

 

It's just as big a problem now, as it was in 2012. You just have to be vigilant. Just because they're loaded for bear doesn't make them good players.

[Tangled Butthair 2]

I don't think you know what 'Game Breaking' means.  Game breaking would be something like weapons not working at all, falling through terrain constantly to your death, or zombies and players being invisible.  Or even more apt, unexplained and and unavoidable CTD bugs.

 

DayZ is a game where players compete with other players and playing a "singleplayer" DayZ on a 0/40 server is against the purpose of the game. Especially when you can switch from the singleplayer to multiplayer with gear from singleplayer.  If it's not game breaking then it's something that definetly should not be there and it ruins the whole game experience.

 

This problem was there since the mod and it's still here. It is annoying but since this is dayz standalone it's time to end this bs.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Tangled Butthair

[ColdAvoral 20]

The point is that there will never be a true remedy for this in any way without penalising people who happen to play in off peak times like shift workers and suchlike. Private hives and Public Hive servers are two totally different matters and need to be treated as such. A private hive will ofc solve this problem, but there will still be the central core of private official hive servers.

 

If you reduce loot spawn based on player activity, people who legitimately can only find a low pop server because they play in off peak times/all other servers are full (its surprising how often this happens if you are not prepared to play with a ping over a certain point which is reasonable.) then the people who are trying to play legitimately will lose out. simple as that.

 

Some things can't be stopped, just like bunnyhopping in some FPS games, its terrible but it happens. same with people using 3PP to look over walls.

[WizardofPug 6]

I haven't found a good solution to this yet but I know that the solution must: prevent people from playing on 0/40 servers but at the same time don't force them too much to play on the high populated server and it has to make sense

 

 

If no one could join a 0/40 server, then it would stay empty forever....

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

DayZ is a game where players compete with other players and playing a "singleplayer" DayZ on a 0/40 server is against the purpose of the game. Especially when you can switch from the singleplayer to multiplayer with gear from singleplayer.  If it's not game breaking then it's something that definetly should not be there and it ruins the whole game experience.

 

This problem was there since the mod and it's still here. It is annoying but since this is dayz standalone it's time to end this bs.

Game Breaking means that the game is LITERALLY unplayable.  You can still play even with these 'cheaters'.  The problem in that respect is with the player and not the game.  There would be no fair way to 'solve' this 'problem'.  If the only way they can PVP is with an AKM decked to the gills and a pack full of drum clips they're only hurting themselves in the long run.  It does not count as cheating, at worst it's poor sportsmanship or being lazy.  Hacking yourself a fully kitted M4 and infinite Ammo is cheating.  Duping gear so you and your buddies have 20 tents full of Guns and Body Armor to run back to when you die is cheating.  Cheating does not break the game.  It's annoying yes, but the game as a whole still functions.  Running around an airfield on an un/underpopulated server to get the 'best' gear then going to a nearly full server to PVP is a dick move, game still functions, the world still turns.

 

Man/Woman up, stick to your morals and continue to play fair, or take the easy way out and play like a dick.

[chodeofwar 145]

I had a bad idea once....

 

All servers are full bar one...

 

So you dont have a choice to join a different server you just get put in the server with the most people

 

so you have all these 40/40 servers and one that is 24/40 and you just join that one until it fills.

 

But thinking about it would not work...

[Tangled Butthair 2]

Game Breaking means that the game is LITERALLY unplayable.  You can still play even with these 'cheaters'.  The problem in that respect is with the player and not the game.  There would be no fair way to 'solve' this 'problem'.  If the only way they can PVP is with an AKM decked to the gills and a pack full of drum clips they're only hurting themselves in the long run.  It does not count as cheating, at worst it's poor sportsmanship or being lazy.  Hacking yourself a fully kitted M4 and infinite Ammo is cheating.  Duping gear so you and your buddies have 20 tents full of Guns and Body Armor to run back to when you die is cheating.  Cheating does not break the game.  It's annoying yes, but the game as a whole still functions.  Running around an airfield on an un/underpopulated server to get the 'best' gear then going to a nearly full server to PVP is a dick move, game still functions, the world still turns.

 

Man/Woman up, stick to your morals and continue to play fair, or take the easy way out and play like a dick.

k stop derailing the thread with the gamebreaking thing just get over it and focus on the problem.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Tangled Butthair

[SaveMeJebus 164]

been said before but how in the hell would you populate a server if you don't allow anybody into empty servers .... mind blown ...  The only "solution" is private hives as any other "solution" you come up with will undoubtedly aim to make everyone play the game your way.  Having different ways to play lets people decide for themselves how they want to play, we didn't come here to play YOUR game.

Edited September 7, 2014 by SaveMeJebus

[Tangled Butthair 2]

been said before but how in the hell would you populate a server if you don't allow anybody into empty servers .... mind blown ...  The only "solution" is private hives as any other "solution" you come up with will undoubtedly aim to make everyone play the game your way.  Having different ways to play lets people decide for themselves how they want to play, we didn't come here to play YOUR game.

You are really ignorat, I am not telling you to play MY game, I am looking for a solution for the issue. And the issue with playing on unpopulated server IS an issue. If you don't see that then you're blind. You're probably one of those guys who only gear up on a 0/40 server and then switch to a full server and they're ok with this. What is the point of this bullshit? When you play on an empty server you are guaranteed that you will find the best gear and won't die, there is no risk. Therefore it's killing DayZ

 

 

A good solution would be not letting people see how many players are on the server. Not only will it increase realism but solve the problem. Also decrease the number of servers so players aren't so spread across thousands of servers.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Tangled Butthair

[SaveMeJebus 164]

You are really ignorat, I am not telling you to play MY game, I am looking for a solution for the issue. And the issue with playing on unpopulated server IS an issue. If you don't see that then you're blind. You're probably one of those guys who only gear up on a 0/40 server and then switch to a full server and they're ok with this. What is the point of this bullshit? When you play on an empty server you are guaranteed that you will find the best gear and won't die, there is no risk. Therefore it's killing DayZ

 

 

A good solution would be not letting people see how many players are on the server. Not only will it increase realism but solve the problem. Also decrease the number of servers so players aren't so spread across thousands of servers.

The sheer fact that you think there is a problem here proves you are the ignorant one .. I usually play on HC servers so ya they tend to be a little emptier but by no means do I shoot for low pop servers to loot wtf is the point in that .... high pop server = some guy already got all my stuff for me I just need to go take it, just because some people want to go loot in low pop servers you think the game is dying? more ignorance. Anyone who is constantly looting on low pop/empty servers only hurts themselves in the long run as it usually just leads to lazy tactics as they get so comfortable being alone, this is fine by me ... easier to hunt them.

[d0pesen 17]

if you face an full euipped enemy on a populated server, what is the different for you then between if this enemy joining empty server, equip fast and go populated server or if gear up on the a populated server for several hours, quit game, come back to same server few days later full euipped?

 

the enemy you face is same full equipped, not matter how he has done it.

[ljlee256 0]

The sheer fact that you think there is a problem here proves you are the ignorant one .. I usually play on HC servers so ya they tend to be a little emptier but by no means do I shoot for low pop servers to loot wtf is the point in that .... high pop server = some guy already got all my stuff for me I just need to go take it, just because some people want to go loot in low pop servers you think the game is dying? more ignorance. Anyone who is constantly looting on low pop/empty servers only hurts themselves in the long run as it usually just leads to lazy tactics as they get so comfortable being alone, this is fine by me ... easier to hunt them.

I'm not so sure it makes them lazier to be honest, I also play HC, and mostly in the mornings as I work 13 hours per day and can barely keep my eyes open in the evening let alone play a video game. After running around with 1-2 other people on the server for an hour and then suddenly everyone else decides to get their lazy asses out of bed and the server begins to get more full, my heart rate immediately speeds up and I become the most careful guy you'll ever meet.

Ultimately though, I don't think server hopping for gear is exactly game breaking, I think it's 2 different play styles mixing together and creating an issue where one doesn't need to exist.

Public Servers* with single server hive saving and Public Servers* with multi-server hive saving, is the solution. Give people the choice, and for god sakes make it a filter option, the server list is a nightmare to navigate already.

Edited September 7, 2014 by ljlee256

[Evil Minion 943]

A possible solution is to make the loot spawn rate depending on server population so high population servers have a high spawn rate (that gets mitigated by higher risk and competition), low population servers have a low spawn rate (which results in longer search times but less risk) and empty servers simply do not respawn loot unless they are below a fairly low minimum threshold (otherwise new servers would not have any loot on them) - basically they "freeze" until someone joins them.

 

This way switching between servers of different population doesn't give you an advantage but is a pure gameplay preference choice. Now add some server hopping prevention measures (penalty for excessive switching) and empty servers cease being a problem.

[ljlee256 0]

A possible solution is to make the loot spawn rate depending on server population so high population servers have a high spawn rate (that gets mitigated by higher risk and competition), low population servers have a low spawn rate (which results in longer search times but less risk) and empty servers simply do not respawn loot unless they are below a fairly low minimum threshold (otherwise new servers would not have any loot on them) - basically they "freeze" until someone joins them.

 

This way switching between servers of different population doesn't give you an advantage but is a pure gameplay preference choice. Now add some server hopping prevention measures (penalty for excessive switching) and empty servers cease being a problem.

Good solution but one little addition: the spawn should be based on average median player count, that way clans don't start using low pop servers to farm loot, and/or you don't go to pick something up, someone exits the server, and it vanishes in front of you.

Also the problem I've always had with server hopping penalties is ping, I have a really stable and strong internet connection so my ping is usually at a cool 35~ on most servers, I prefer to play only with people who have similar ping as high ping players tend to create server wide lag. Unfortunately I cant see the players pings that are in the server without joining it so I have to server hop until I find a comfortable ping level, I would be penalized for this using a server hopping penalty.

Edited September 7, 2014 by ljlee256

[Tangled Butthair 2]

if you face an full euipped enemy on a populated server, what is the different for you then between if this enemy joining empty server, equip fast and go populated server or if gear up on the a populated server for several hours, quit game, come back to same server few days later full euipped?

 

the enemy you face is same full equipped, not matter how he has done it.

It's not about the difference. It's that it allows people to get the best gear with NO RISK. DayZ allows people to get the  best gear WITH NO RISK AT ALL. If  you don't see a problem here then I have nothing more to say....

[Evil Minion 943]

Good solution but one little addition: the spawn should be based on average median player count, that way clans don't start using low pop servers to farm loot, and/or you don't go to pick something up, someone exits the server, and it vanishes in front of you.

I was talking about spawn rate - not item count. Items that already spawned should persist/degrade at the same rate as usual. If clans want to use low pop servers for loot farming - let them. The idea behind the suggestion above is to make loot farming on low pop servers about as difficult as on high pop servers. If people want to loot peacefully they may but they should also bring some time (as well as supplies etc. - the PvE elements are still there).

Unfortunately I cant see the players pings that are in the server without joining it so I have to server hop until I find a comfortable ping level, I would be penalized for this using a server hopping penalty.

Here a better way is to introduce an optional ping limit for servers and/or show the current ping state in the browser. Server hopping needs to be penalized as otherwise it would still be the fastest and lowest risk ways between two high value loot areas. The point is to make moving on the map more attractive than moving between servers. One key is providing necessary information about the servers before you actually join (includes pressing the "Play" button). The other key is to start with a low penalty (to allow a few switches without much trouble) that significantly increases with frequent switching (to "nerf" the server hopping strategy to a point where it is at least not "overpowered" anymore) but doesn't interfere with "server wandering" (play a few hours on one server and the next day a few on another).

And contrary to popular belief private hives do not solve any of those problems. Its like suggesting "play Soccer" as solution to "I suck at Chess". Different server populations and switching between servers are elements of the game dynamics and as such should be balanced instead of simplifying the game to a point where they simply don't matter anymore (thats what private hives do).

[d0pesen 17]

It's not about the difference. It's that it allows people to get the best gear with NO RISK. DayZ allows people to get the  best gear WITH NO RISK AT ALL. If  you don't see a problem here then I have nothing more to say....

okay, if you have a problem with that, i can understand. for me it makes no difference how an enemy get equipped if i face him. why i should think about it? perhaps he equipped fast in last 2 hours on empty server or he equipped slow last weeks on full pop servers, but for the moment i met him, it makes no difference.

 

the only way to balance this "injustice", is to let the serverpop be a varable for loot(re)spawning. 1 player on server = lowest loot, 40 player on server = the most loot. this all with a dynamic loot balancing, if players joining, more loot spawning, when players leaving, kill loot.

 

but again, for me it makes in a confrontation no difference how my enemies looted up. in a post apolyptic situation i am also not claiming god for the circumstance that the enemy i met was living next a to weaponshop and me on a farm. ;)   

Edited September 7, 2014 by d0pesen

[ColdAvoral 20]

okay, if you have a problem with that, i can understand. for me it makes no difference how an enemy get equipped if i face him. why i should think about it? perhaps he equipped fast in last 2 hours on empty server or he equipped slow last weeks on full pop servers, but for the moment i met him, it makes no difference.

the only way to balance this "injustice", is to let the serverpop be a varable for loot(re)spawning. 1 player on server = lowest loot, 40 player on server = the most loot. this all with a dynamic loot balancing, if players joining, more loot spawning, when players leaving, kill loot.

but again, for me it makes in a confrontation no difference how my enemies looted up. in a post apolyptic situation i am also not claiming god for the circumstance that the enemy i met was living next a to weaponshop and me on a farm. ;)

There is however kn glaring problem with this. People who play on off peak hours. I am a shift worker and when i get off my night shift the west Australian servers that i usually play on are empty or max 10 players on a rare good day. Why should such people be penalised over those more fortunate to have 'normal' gaming hours

[blitzz92 7]

Solution - at least 20 players for military loot spawns.

Edited September 8, 2014 by blitzz92

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

'Issue' solved.  OP banned.

[ChainReactor 922]

Evil Minions idea isn't that bad. Lets even expand that idea an make servers restart empty and then player spawns trigger loot spawns. Maybe you can limit that mechanic to some items or item groups like guns, ammo and top tier clothing, but thats not a must have imo. But i really like the idea of loot spawning dependant on server population. Low pop -> Low loot spawn, high pop -> high loot spawn.

 

Sounds like hell of a system to develop though.

[ljlee256 0]

Here a better way is to introduce an optional ping limit for servers and/or show the current ping state in the browser. Server hopping needs to be penalized as otherwise it would still be the fastest and lowest risk ways between two high value loot areas. The point is to make moving on the map more attractive than moving between servers. One key is providing necessary information about the servers before you actually join (includes pressing the "Play" button). The other key is to start with a low penalty (to allow a few switches without much trouble) that significantly increases with frequent switching (to "nerf" the server hopping strategy to a point where it is at least not "overpowered" anymore) but doesn't interfere with "server wandering" (play a few hours on one server and the next day a few on another).

And contrary to popular belief private hives do not solve any of those problems. Its like suggesting "play Soccer" as solution to "I suck at Chess". Different server populations and switching between servers are elements of the game dynamics and as such should be balanced instead of simplifying the game to a point where they simply don't matter anymore (thats what private hives do).

 

I can get behind this method. Don't get me wrong, I completely disagree with server hopping for purposes of avoiding danger, or finding higher value loot, I think it contravenes the spirit of the game in a big way, the idea/spirit being a survival game, the more restricted someone is the harder the game is, and the harder the game is (to within reason) the more fun it actually is, I would never play a game that is easy, which is why I despise cheaters and hackers. The more elements of reality that are added to the game in terms of how surviving an apocalypse would actually look and feel like, the happier I am. That being said, it comes down to balancing it all so that people in general are happy, I get that, this isn't "LJLEE256's game" this is Dayz by bohemia interactive.

[friendlypilot 37]

Sounds good idea

 

but isssue sorted op banned

Edited September 22, 2014 by friendlypilot