Blanks & Jams

[battlerhd 116]

I think a cool idea would be to add jams or malfunctions to weapons in the SA. Not only is this extremely realistic considering we are picking up mostly old guns of the floor but it would change the way fire fights turn out. Also adding in blank rounds would be a interesting feature, you could use it to pretend to lay down covering fire in a fire fight without wasting real ammunition and it could be used to scare people you hold up or handcuff. Both are in no way unrealistic and are possible to do so I can't see a reason to not add more features like this. 

[irishroy 1347]

Jamming has been suggested multiple times before, too ;)

 

 

But I, too, think jamming is a great idea.

 

Guns like the M4, AMM & AK101 are powerful, but have a higher risk of jamming.

Weapons with simpler mechanisms, like a Revolver, Blaze95/IZH-43-shotgun, Mosin, etc. could have a way lower risk of jamming (their trade-offs lie in low "magazine"-capacity (revolver has 6 shots, mosin 5. Blaze/IZH have both 2 shots) and slower RoF overall)

 

 

 

 

I dont really know, if blank-shots could be implemented, due to the system and the engine.

This would mean a weapon could fire 2 "different" types of the same ammo (or 2 types of different ammo at all)...

However it could be possible, I imagine

Edited August 26, 2014 by irishroy

[mrmutant 13]

Jamming has been suggested multiple times before, too ;)

 

 

But I, too, think jamming is a great idea.

 

Guns like the M4, AMM & AK101 are powerful, but have a higher risk of jamming.

Weapons with simpler mechanisms, like a Revolver, Blaze95/IZH-43-shotgun, Mosin, etc. could have a way lower risk of jamming (their trade-offs lie in low "magazine"-capacity (revolver has 6 shots, mosin 10. Blaze/IZH have both 2 shots) and slower RoF overall)

 

 

 

 

I dont really know, if blank-shots could be implemented, due to the system and the engine.

This would mean a weapon could fire 2 "different" types of the same ammo (or 2 types of different ammo at all)...

However it could be possible, I imagine

 

Mosin has 5. A bolt action rifle will likely never jam. It can get stuck but even my piece of shit mosin irl has never given me any real problems. sometimes i gotta hit her a little hard but it works. My personal experience with the M16/M4 platforms has been with the Marine Corps and unless you got some CLP or spit(rust your shit if you dont clean it tho) she's going to jam. The jams are fairly easy to fix and most of them are just the bolt getting stuck or the buffer spring. But more complicated jams can happen on the system such as double feeds and brass over bolt but that's fairly rare and requires some serious fiddling and beating to fix. Id like to see weapons losing condition and jamming when not in pristine. Give the weapon cleaning kit an animation so you can't just auto clean your gat in the middle of combat. As for AKs; those rarely if ever jam but you still need to keep them clean. Weapons maintenance before heading into a firefight or looking for trouble is crucial to keeping you or your buddy alive and thats how it needs to be in game.

 

Putting a 60 round mag in an M4 is just asking for trouble IMO. Good luck getting all 60 off out of an M4 you found at a crashed helicopter site without having her jam.

 

Revolver should never jam.

 

All ammunition should have a small chance of being a dud and not working, depending on condition. I'm sure they will implement this though.

 

Not sure how i feel about blanks. They dirty and dry up your weapon after only a few rounds and would probably not exist in a war torn country like chernarus. The only use i see for blanks is taking the powder out of them for help starting fires or force feeding them up someones ass.

 

I also want to suggest the use of rags in cleaning a weapon(cleaning the carbon and gunk out). It should only clean it to a certain degree and should be ruined afterwards.

[IronCross 78]

Blanks? No.

 

Malfunctions, yes. Especially on the M4. FFS, it would make the useless weapon cleaning kit vital.

Edited August 26, 2014 by IronCross

[IronCross 78]

Mosin has 5. A bolt action rifle will likely never jam. It can get stuck but even my piece of shit mosin irl has never given me any real problems. sometimes i gotta hit her a little hard but it works. My personal experience with the M16/M4 platforms has been with the Marine Corps and unless you got some CLP or spit(rust your shit if you dont clean it tho) she's going to jam. The jams are fairly easy to fix and most of them are just the bolt getting stuck or the buffer spring. But more complicated jams can happen on the system such as double feeds and brass over bolt but that's fairly rare and requires some serious fiddling and beating to fix. Id like to see weapons losing condition and jamming when not in pristine. Give the weapon cleaning kit an animation so you can't just auto clean your gat in the middle of combat. As for AKs; those rarely if ever jam but you still need to keep them clean. Weapons maintenance before heading into a firefight or looking for trouble is crucial to keeping you or your buddy alive and thats how it needs to be in game.

 

Putting a 60 round mag in an M4 is just asking for trouble IMO. Good luck getting all 60 off out of an M4 you found at a crashed helicopter site without having her jam.

 

 

 

AK47s do malfunction. They get dirty, they double feed, they can fail to fire, fail to extract. And they do. Especially on 30-50 year old weapons.

 

 

Sounds like your M16s were pretty worn out mate :D

Edited August 26, 2014 by IronCross

[BeefBacon 1185]

Absolutely. Pristine weapons should never jam, but firing weapons should reduce their condition. The lower the condition, the more prone they are to jamming. I wouldn't want it to be arbitrarily balanced, though. If a weapon jams frequently in real life, (relatively speaking) it should jam frequently in-game.

 

It should also be extremely difficult to restore a weapon to pristine, and finding a pristine weapon should be incredibly rare. If you have a pristine SKS or Mosin then it should be a tough decision on whether to invest the resources to maintain  an AK101. Currently people can switch to a new gun as soon as they find one. Would be nice if there was at least some hesitation.

[Mancomb 131]

If the AK in-game is anything like the AK IRL, then you ought to be able to beat it against a tree for 3 hours, throw it into the ocean, come back a week later, pull it out, load & chamber it, and be good to go.

(Ok, a BIT of exaggeration, but still...)

 

A bolt action rifle will likely never jam. It can get stuck but even my piece of shit mosin irl has never given me any real problems. sometimes i gotta hit her a little hard but it works. 

 

I also want to suggest the use of rags in cleaning a weapon(cleaning the carbon and gunk out). It should only clean it to a certain degree and should be ruined afterwards.

 

Indeed; my Mosin has yet to give me any problems, either. Granted, it IS in fairly good condition, and was when I got it, but proper maintenance and cleaning pretty much keep it there. I have to say, the Russians sure knew how to make weapons. I also completely agree with the whole "using rags to clean" statement; would be pretty cool.

[irishroy 1347]

Mosin has 5. 

that's right.

 

that's why I wrote that the Mosin has 5, and not 10 shots  B)

[Azzerrrr 52]

I think a cool idea would be to add jams or malfunctions to weapons in the SA. Not only is this extremely realistic considering we are picking up mostly old guns of the floor but it would change the way fire fights turn out. Also adding in blank rounds would be a interesting feature, you could use it to pretend to lay down covering fire in a fire fight without wasting real ammunition and it could be used to scare people you hold up or handcuff. Both are in no way unrealistic and are possible to do so I can't see a reason to not add more features like this. 

I am in no way favour of the jamming however blank rounds? Yes, so long as they do not affect current spawning & future spawning of real ammunition.

[tobias winfro 305]

I am for the idea of jams and misfired cartridges. Although I hope they would tie it to the condition of the weapon and the condition of the ammunition you are trying to use, not some half thought out formula where 1 in every 10 shots misfires or jams. Perhaps when we get some form of persistent storage things like weather will begin to affect our guns and equipment. I can't imagine all that rain we endure would do anyone's gear any good

[battlerhd 116]

Blanks? No.

 

Malfunctions, yes. Especially on the M4. FFS, it would make the useless weapon cleaning kit vital.

I don't see what your problem is with blanks, It's a legitimate tactic that could and probably would be used by players in game to fool and or distract any one who they were fighting, I could personally see this striving in series squad play

Edited August 26, 2014 by iBattleVet

[CJFlint 357]

I will sign off on this idea if its realistic.

 

A dirty weapon is what causes a jam or bad parts. Some rifles like the M-16 A2 is really prone to jams if it is not cleaned regularly then others. When I was in the service we did a quick field strip every few 100 rounds, oil the bolt and punch the boar. Then when in the rear we would take the completely apart and clean them for hours, even dipping parts in solvents. The M16, works great so long as its cleaned regularly, if not you will have problems with it. On the flip side you have rifles like the AK-47 which does not need to be cleaned as nearly much. In fact it is a vary reliable rifle, that can be fired with mud in it. So I think it should for realism sake vary from weapon to weapon. There already is cleaning kits in the game, could be vary possible they already have plans for it. In fact I would say more likely then not. As far as dud rounds go, my time in the service I only seen it happen a few times. Its kind of rare, but can happen. So maybe if the rounds you use are pristine there's a vary rare chance, but if they are worn are damaged its far more likely. So realistic! 

 

As far as blanks go.......I would not be apposed to having them, but why really? I guess you could use them to scare other players, or lure zombies maybe.....ok  fuck it add it.

 

But 1st, as much as I really love the sounds of this, I really want to see the existing mechanics in the game be ironed out 1st. The game is really corky right now and that's putting it nicely. Lets let them get some of these bugs fixed then add the finer details in.

 

Just some thoughts..    

Edited August 26, 2014 by CJFlint

[IronCross 78]

I don't see what your problem is with blacks, It's a legitimate tactic that could and probably would be used by players in game to fool and or distract any one who they were fighting, I could personally see this striving in series squad play

Whoa. Ease up on the racism, brah.

 

 

But seriously, blanks aren't real common outside of certain training environments.

[I4yue 2]

Absolutely. Pristine weapons should never jam, but firing weapons should reduce their condition. The lower the condition, the more prone they are to jamming. I wouldn't want it to be arbitrarily balanced, though. If a weapon jams frequently in real life, (relatively speaking) it should jam frequently in-game.

 

It should also be extremely difficult to restore a weapon to pristine, and finding a pristine weapon should be incredibly rare. If you have a pristine SKS or Mosin then it should be a tough decision on whether to invest the resources to maintain  an AK101. Currently people can switch to a new gun as soon as they find one. Would be nice if there was at least some hesitation.

I have thought about a system similar to this but cant see it being effective without a second quality indicator. You see 'dirty' and 'badly damaged' are not the same. Both will cuase you weapon to jam, but a badly damaged rifle can't be fixed without taking it to a gun smith, however a dirty rifle just needs to be cleaned. Rifles would get dirtier the more you fire, especially with automatic weapons. A clean m4 would likely get dirty enough to start jamming around the fourth magazine. An AK would start jamming around the 6th-7th magazine. As for actully damaging your rifle, it can happen; head spaces can slip, recoil spings can break, the rifle can overheat and seize. However most of these sorts of damage should be exempt from dayz, the rifle actually needs to have force applied to it to get damaged, such as being dropped or getting hit by a zombie. 

[grindstone50k 208]

I think a cool idea would be to add jams or malfunctions to weapons in the SA. Not only is this extremely realistic considering we are picking up mostly old guns of the floor but it would change the way fire fights turn out. Also adding in blank rounds would be a interesting feature, you could use it to pretend to lay down covering fire in a fire fight without wasting real ammunition and it could be used to scare people you hold up or handcuff. Both are in no way unrealistic and are possible to do so I can't see a reason to not add more features like this. 

Semi/full-auto gas-operated firearms require a special muzzle attachment to make them fire more than one shot when using blank ammo. Having this attachment would effectively negate the "surprise" aspect considering how noticeable it is. Plus, realistically, even most US gun owners don't have a big stockpile of blanks sitting around, much less would it be spread throughout a former East-bloc nation.

 

Also, way too much speculation about rifle malfunctions from the uninformed in this thread.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Grindstone

[BeefBacon 1185]

Semi/full-auto gas-operated firearms require a special muzzle attachment to make them fire more than one shot when using blank ammo. Having this attachment would effectively negate the "surprise" aspect considering how noticeable it is. Plus, realistically, even most US gun owners don't have a big stockpile of blanks sitting around, much less would it be spread throughout a former East-bloc nation.

 

Also, way too much speculation about rifle malfunctions from the uninformed in this thread.

 

Not everyone is a gun nut. All I know about guns is what I've learned from video games. Considering that DayZ is also a videogame I apply what I've learned here. I'm sure many others do the same.

 

Have to agree with your point about blank rounds, though. Plus I can't see why someone would try and 'distract' another player when they could just straight-up shoot them.

 

 

I have thought about a system similar to this but cant see it being effective without a second quality indicator. You see 'dirty' and 'badly damaged' are not the same. Both will cuase you weapon to jam, but a badly damaged rifle can't be fixed without taking it to a gun smith, however a dirty rifle just needs to be cleaned. Rifles would get dirtier the more you fire, especially with automatic weapons. A clean m4 would likely get dirty enough to start jamming around the fourth magazine. An AK would start jamming around the 6th-7th magazine. As for actully damaging your rifle, it can happen; head spaces can slip, recoil spings can break, the rifle can overheat and seize. However most of these sorts of damage should be exempt from dayz, the rifle actually needs to have force applied to it to get damaged, such as being dropped or getting hit by a zombie. 

 

 

Good idea, though it might make more sense to just have a single condition type rather than multiple. 'Damaged' can just as easily be called 'dirty' or 'in poor condition'. Maybe condition types should be renamed based on the type of item it is. Food, for example, should maybe have "fresh" "stale" "mouldy" "rotten" etc rather than 'worn' or 'damaged'.

Edited August 27, 2014 by BeefBacon

[grindstone50k 208]

Not everyone is a gun nut. All I know about guns is what I've learned from video games. Considering that DayZ is also a videogame I apply what I've learned here. I'm sure many others do the same.

 

 

Any other setting, speculating with a complete lack of information would get you no where. But since it's a vidya gaem it's ok.

[BeefBacon 1185]

Any other setting, speculating with a complete lack of information would get you no where. But since it's a vidya gaem it's ok.

 

Considering it's a discussion of game mechanics, yes. I take features from other games I like - like weapon jamming in Far Cry 2 or Stalker - and I apply them to this one. I don't need to be a gunsmith or a marine to discuss a feature of a videogame that is prevalent in other videogames of a similar genre.

[grindstone50k 208]

Considering it's a discussion of game mechanics, yes. I take features from other games I like - like weapon jamming in Far Cry 2 or Stalker - and I apply them to this one. I don't need to be a gunsmith or a marine to discuss a feature of a videogame that is prevalent in other videogames of a similar genre.

You do when the video game being discussed is grounded in "authenticity", which neither of the two mentioned games are even close to.

[Airfield 50]

I really do like the idea of jams/blanks.

 

I wish there was more incentive to have to constantly manage your firearm. You should have to to clean your gun, which should be a matter of taking it apart and cleaning each part, which should be a 3 minute process.

[rybec 339]

If we're going to add in Failure to Eject, how about we add in Failure to Fire? I can't imagine the mass confusion when people eventually get a hangfire, think something in the game is broken and and up firing somewhere unintended twenty seconds later.