Reskin the Russian Calibers

[gibonez 3633]

I am suggesting that the Eastern and Russian gun Calibers be reskined to Steel lacquered cases in order to end confusion amongst the casuals.

 

Ideally the western calibers should all be brass cased and eastern calibers be steel cased to make them easier to identify.

 

7.62x51 nato

7.62x54r

 

A new player would associate the color of the ammo and quickly determine what type of ammo it is.

 

This would also allow for the possibility of new ammo types to be added to the game with less chance of confusion.

 

 

vs

 

 

 

 

[stielhandgranate 480]

there is no reason not to do this. With this the whole "players who want to be spoonfed and are too lazy to read the ammo description won't understand" argument against adding in ammunition goes away.

[Evaris 61]

there is no reason not to do this. With this the whole "players who want to be spoonfed and are too lazy to read the ammo description won't understand" argument against adding in ammunition goes away.

Agreed, this is a perfect solution. 

[BeefBacon 1185]

Sounds fine to me.

 

The only problem I have with lots of ammo types is that they all sound the same. 

 

7.62mm

7.62x25mm

7.62x38mmR

7.62x35mm

7.62x39mm

7.62x40

7.62x45mm

7.62x51mm

7.62x53mm

7.62x54R

 

It gets silly. However, the OP's suggestion is one I can get behind. Lots of similar sounding ammo types that look different (as we sort of have already with the two 7.62 rounds we have) is an excellent idea. It adds extra depth to the game without complicating it.

Edited August 25, 2014 by BeefBacon

[Evil Minion 943]

I don't see the reason. A different case will not help casuals to identify cartridges. A different arrangement on the other side might help - see pistol calibers. Also the names are probably the greatest source of confusion - thats why 7.62x51mm NATO should be called .308 Winchester instead. This helps players much more than recoloring the cases. For example using something like this as model should work quite fine without any change to the current 7.62x54mmR model.

 

One could even rename the 7.62x39mm ammo into 7.62x39 Soviet or M43 Soviet just to make the difference more apparent by name.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Evil Minion

[hotcakes 348]

I don't see the reason. A different case will not help casuals to identify cartridges. A different arrangement on the other side might help - see pistol calibers. Also the names are probably the greatest source of confusion - thats why 7.62x51mm NATO should be called .308 Winchester instead. This helps players much more than recoloring the cases. For example using something like this as model should work quite fine without any change to the current 7.62x54mmR model.

 

One could even rename the 7.62x39mm ammo into 7.62x39 Soviet or M43 Soviet just to make the difference more apparent by name.

 

Or they could just learn the names of the cartridges. Ez fix.

[stielhandgranate 480]

thats why 7.62x51mm NATO should be called .308 Winchester instead.

 

.308 runs hotter than 7.62x51 and can damage a rifle chambered in 7.62x51. Also Eastern European ammo is rarely made with brass casing while NATO/North American military ammo is always brass cased. I would help to make the models look different too, such as making NATO ammo line up in a row and COMBLOC ammo can be in a pile.

[rybec 339]

 

7.62x53mm

Finnish rifles incoming.

[pale1776 375]

.308 runs hotter than 7.62x51 and can damage a rifle chambered in 7.62x51. Also Eastern European ammo is rarely made with brass casing while NATO/North American military ammo is always brass cased. I would help to make the models look different too, such as making NATO ammo line up in a row and COMBLOC ammo can be in a pile.

No, it wont.

7.62x51 is actually slightly larger than a .308, but both can be fired in a gun chambered for either. Not many people know this, hence why when I ammo at walmart, noone knows what 7.62x51 is so its overstocked and 17 dollars a box compared to 30+

However, 5.56x45 and .223 CANNOT be like that. A rifle chambered in 5.56 can accept either, because 5.56 is a round with a higher pressure, and the rifle has a higher tolerance. Since 5.56 has a higher pressure than .223, only a 5.56 can shoot both without personal risk.

Trust me, my dad was an Armorer in the Army, both my uncles work at a gin manufacturing company I wikl not name for security reasons, and Ive studied both.

[stielhandgranate 480]

No, it wont.

7.62x51 is actually slightly larger than a .308, but both can be fired in a gun chambered for either. Not many people know this, hence why when I ammo at walmart, noone knows what 7.62x51 is so its overstocked and 17 dollars a box compared to 30+

However, 5.56x45 and .223 CANNOT be like that. A rifle chambered in 5.56 can accept either, because 5.56 is a round with a higher pressure, and the rifle has a higher tolerance. Since 5.56 has a higher pressure than .223, only a 5.56 can shoot both without personal risk.

Trust me, my dad was an Armorer in the Army, both my uncles work at a gin manufacturing company I wikl not name for security reasons, and Ive studied both.

 

 

http://www.303british.com/id36.html

 

There is a slight difference, but it is significant enough to cause issues. If I was at my homestation, I would run headspace gauges on .308 and 7.62x51 rifles to try it out. Some of the older armorers in my shop warn me about the differences being akin to .223 and 5.56x45 but reversed with the civilian cartridge being non compatible with rifles rated for the military round when I purchased an M1A scout but this is anecdotal. Here are some images from the internet, but they seem accurate.

 

 

[pale1776 375]

http://www.303british.com/id36.html

There is a slight difference, but it is significant enough to cause issues. If I was at my homestation, I would run headspace gauges on .308 and 7.62x51 rifles to try it out. Some of the older armorers in my shop warn me about the differences being akin to .223 and 5.56x45 but reversed with the civilian cartridge being non compatible with rifles rated for the military round when I purchased an M1A scout but this is anecdotal. Here are some images from the internet, but they seem accurate.

The military rifles are engineered to tougher specs. A .308 is actually slightly larger than the 7.62x51, but not enouhg to be accurately measured, and causes no effects. 308 and 762x51 are COMPLETELY compatible.

A 556 is a higher pressure round, and is equivalent to roughly a 224. A rifle chambered in 223 cannot handle a 556, but a 556 can handle a 223

Basically, the military chambers can handle the civilian counterpart, but only a civilian 308 can handle a military counterpart.

A 556 works in a 233, but its extremely dangerous.

[I4yue 2]

I don't see the reason. A different case will not help casuals to identify cartridges. A different arrangement on the other side might help - see pistol calibers. Also the names are probably the greatest source of confusion - thats why 7.62x51mm NATO should be called .308 Winchester instead. This helps players much more than recoloring the cases. For example using something like this as model should work quite fine without any change to the current 7.62x54mmR model.

 

One could even rename the 7.62x39mm ammo into 7.62x39 Soviet or M43 Soviet just to make the difference more apparent by name.

No your wrong, I play with a group of 6 friends and 4 of them almost exclusively use the the colours to tell 7.62x39 and 7.62 apart. when I tried to teach them the difference they thought is was to confusing and couldn't understand why there is so many 7.62 variants. I gave up, it wasn't worth my time. So colours do make a difference, but in the case of 7.62x51 and 5.56 aswell as 7.62x39 and 7.62x54r different pile shapes will be helpful as well.

 

I dont think renaming would help much either. Most of the confusion with the casuals stem from the fact they dont bother reading.  

[stielhandgranate 480]

The military rifles are engineered to tougher specs. A .308 is actually slightly larger than the 7.62x51, but not enouhg to be accurately measured, and causes no effects. 308 and 762x51 are COMPLETELY compatible.

A 556 is a higher pressure round, and is equivalent to roughly a 224. A rifle chambered in 223 cannot handle a 556, but a 556 can handle a 223

Basically, the military chambers can handle the civilian counterpart, but only a civilian 308 can handle a military counterpart.

A 556 works in a 233, but its extremely dangerous.

 

.308 may cause no ill effects on military weapons like the M24, which was chambered in .308 to begin with, or the Mk 17 which was designed more recently. On older 7.62 rifles like the L1A1/FAL or G3 this may be an issue and there are existing cases of civilian sporter versions of those weapons being damaged with .308.

[grindstone50k 208]

I am suggesting that the Eastern and Russian gun Calibers be reskined to Steel lacquered cases in order to end confusion amongst the casuals.

 

Ideally the western calibers should all be brass cased and eastern calibers be steel cased to make them easier to identify.

 

7.62x51 nato

7.62x54r

 

A new player would associate the color of the ammo and quickly determine what type of ammo it is.

 

This would also allow for the possibility of new ammo types to be added to the game with less chance of confusion.

 

 

vs

The milsurp 7.62x54r that I have is copper-washed steel case. It looks nothing like the lacquered cases you have as an example.

 

If new players can't read the in-game description, then screw them. They need to go back and learn some basic reading skills first. Read the gun, read what caliber it takes, read the ammo, match accordingly. It's no different from that match-the-blocks-to-the-holes toy you had in pre-school. If they can't figure it out, then that's their handicap.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Grindstone

[stielhandgranate 480]

 

If new players can't read the in-game description, then screw them. They need to go back and learn some basic reading skills first. Read the gun, read what caliber it takes, read the ammo, match accordingly. It's no different from that match-the-blocks-to-the-holes toy you had in pre-school. If they can't figure it out, then that's their handicap.

 

While I would agree with you, illiterate and dumb gamers is why the devs are hesitant to add more ammo types in game.

[grindstone50k 208]

While I would agree with you, illiterate and dumb gamers is why the devs are hesitant to add more ammo types in game.

Doesn't seem to scare BIS.

[stielhandgranate 480]

Doesn't seem to scare BIS.

 

BIS? Well the ArmA series and DayZ are not headed by the same lead dev. Chirs Torchira was hesitant to add in 7.62x39 because he didn't understand the differences between 7.62x51 and 7.62x39.

[grindstone50k 208]

BIS? Well the ArmA series and DayZ are not headed by the same lead dev. Chirs Torchira was hesitant to add in 7.62x39 because he didn't understand the differences between 7.62x51 and 7.62x39.

DayZ is still a BIS game. Rocket knows his calibers and there is another dev on the team who knows quite a bit about firearms, but his name escapes me. There is more than one input into the decision-making process.

[pale1776 375]

BIS? Well the ArmA series and DayZ are not headed by the same lead dev. Chirs Torchira was hesitant to add in 7.62x39 because he didn't understand the differences between 7.62x51 and 7.62x39.

Ohmydamn.. One is a high power rifle (Not even an original Mosin cartridge, Winchester made 762x51 and 30-06 For Russia during WWI) and the other is an intermediate round.

Thats the problem with DayZ to be honest, they have like ONE guy (Rocket) whos actually been outside before, and I dont think anyone knows what he works on XD

I mean really, anyone whos even SEEN the outdoors knows what blueberries and holly berries look like, and KNOW which is deadly and which is safe XD (Have they fixed that yet?)

[a_ruttle 199]

 

Sounds fine to me.

 

The only problem I have with lots of ammo types is that they all sound the same. 

 

7.62mm

7.62x25mm

7.62x38mmR

7.62x35mm

7.62x39mm

7.62x40

7.62x45mm

7.62x51mm

7.62x53mm

7.62x54R

 

It gets silly. However, the OP's suggestion is one I can get behind. Lots of similar sounding ammo types that look different (as we sort of have already with the two 7.62 rounds we have) is an excellent idea. It adds extra depth to the game without complicating it.

 

We don't need all of those ammo types, out of that list just x54R, x51, x39 and x25 would do with maybe .30-06 or .303 to cover western hunting rifles or something, that's all the 7.62s needed, 1 of them is pistol cal, people aren't going to be mixing up their rounds after a week of playing, those who do don't deserve to succeed in DayZ, it's a 'survival' horror MMO after all.

[AP_Norris 1017]

Or they could just learn the names of the cartridges. Ez fix.

This, when I started playing this mod I died because I logged out on top of a rock. Not a good example but it fits my point that this game was originally unforgiving.

Currently the new players a guided along, all the gun knowledge they really need is that some guns have external magazines and some have internal magazines.

I want to see the day where I can have a round stovepipe on me, or pick up some rounds that have been lying in the dirt and jam my gun.

Have a bullet go through my magwell.

I hope they change everything to become much harder.

[Legio23 82]

The milsurp 7.62x54r that I have is copper-washed steel case. It looks nothing like the lacquered cases you have as an example.

 

If new players can't read the in-game description, then screw them. They need to go back and learn some basic reading skills first. Read the gun, read what caliber it takes, read the ammo, match accordingly. It's no different from that match-the-blocks-to-the-holes toy you had in pre-school. If they can't figure it out, then that's their handicap.

 

Chinese rounds those no doubt.

As for your comment totally agree with you on that.If people can't be bothered or don't want to take a little time to find out what goes with which thats their problem. This being said its making it sound like there will be hundreds of different guns and a huge variety of calibers which I hope wont be the case. Pistol is pretty much covered with .22, .380, 9mm, .357 and the .45 can't really see the point in adding a lot more calibers to that, as for the rifles its a bit lack luster at the moment and could definitely do with being increased somewhat allowing for a diversity of rifles both civ and mil spec obviously keeping the wildcat rounds out of the picture.

[gibonez 3633]

 

 This being said its making it sound like there will be hundreds of different guns and a huge variety of calibers which I hope wont be the case.

 

Whats wrong with a large list of varied Rifle and pistol rounds  ? It would improve the game by having a large variety of different guns with different ballistics in addition to making the scavenging aspect of the game better due to the lower likelihood of having ammo for your specific weapon.

[Legio23 82]

Whats wrong with a large list of varied Rifle and pistol rounds  ? It would improve the game by having a large variety of different guns with different ballistics in addition to making the scavenging aspect of the game better due to the lower likelihood of having ammo for your specific weapon.

 

Ok, lets make it simple, how many pistol and rifle calibers does your local gun shop have readily available in stock all the time? I'm not talking type or manufacture but actual calibers on the shelves as it stands leaving out the reloading and wildcats.

 

There are literally hundreds of different calibers without the wildcat rounds, would you have them all in the game ? what about the firearms that use them? would you have several different guns per caliber? because a couple of thousand firearms roaming around a server during a spawn kind of defeats the object especially as there would need to be ammo for each of them. Would you rather have everyone give up using firearms all together as they get so pissed off not finding rounds for the gun they carry or vice versa finding rounds but never the gun?

 

Keep it a bit more down to earth and realistic not fricking fairy land.

 

Stick to realistic amounts of calibers, ie. those in current and wide usage which is pretty much where its heading now and having a limited realistic quantity of firearms to go with them. I hardly think you'd find a .357HH, .416 Rigby or the like in the area where DayZ is set...not really much call for a caliber like that now is there. I'm all for adding more calibers as long as it stays within reason and compatible with the setting.

 

Edited August 29, 2014 by Legio23

[stielhandgranate 480]

Snip

 

I think we could all agree that we need more Russian calibers, namely 5.45,9x39 and 9x18 for weapons like the AK-74,AKS-74u,RPK-74,VSS,VAL,Groza and Bizon.