Leather Sack

[Happy- 41]

I think it's only drag Knife/Machete over Deer/Cow-pelt and then craft the leathersack.

 

 

TBH, the leathersack has 20 slots.

But according to the size of it, it should have at least 25, if not 30 slots.

It looks like a mix out of the hunting- and mountain-backpack.

 

(not my pic. this is from someone on reddit)

i just crafted one of these and i find it quite pleasing on the eyes,but the 20 slot was a seriously disappointing considering how big it is. should have 5-10 more slots easly.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Happy-

[Evil Minion 943]

20 slots for a big sack like this:

 

[...]

 

and 25 slots for a "smaller" boarskin-backpack...

You should not judge purely by size. Its probably also a matter of stability - thats why boar skin holds more than burlap even if its the same design. Now the Leather Sack lacks the stability gained from rope and sticks and thats why it should have lower capacity.

 

Also from a gameplay perspective you do not want a backpack that is easier to make and needs less resources to be just as good as a more elaborate one. Given you most likely got a knife when you aquire skin it needs even less resources than the Courier Bags while allowing for more storage. So its already "too good".

[irishroy 1347]

Also from a gameplay perspective you do not want a backpack that is easier to make and needs less resources to be just as good as a more elaborate one. Given you most likely got a knife when you aquire skin it needs even less resources than the Courier Bags while allowing for more storage. So its already "too good".

According to your "gameplay-perspective"-logic, noone would use the Blaze 95, Crossbow, SKS, Ruger 10/22 or the Longhorn, because all these weapons are outshined by far by the AKM, AK101, M4, Mosin, FNX and Magnum.

Look at the SKS&AKM: The AKM is the SKS with same accuracy in full-auto, with 75 rounds-magazine, bipod and PSO-1-scope.

 

And still many many play people with these underpowered weapons, just because it's DayZ.

 

Furthermore, many people crafted an improvised backpack with sticks, rope and burlap sack, even though a Hunting- and Mountain-backpack would be way more useful.

Edited August 14, 2014 by irishroy

[hombrecz 832]

You should not judge purely by size. Its probably also a matter of stability - thats why boar skin holds more than burlap even if its the same design. Now the Leather Sack lacks the stability gained from rope and sticks and thats why it should have lower capacity.

 

Also from a gameplay perspective you do not want a backpack that is easier to make and needs less resources to be just as good as a more elaborate one. Given you most likely got a knife when you aquire skin it needs even less resources than the Courier Bags while allowing for more storage. So its already "too good".

 

Hm yes, I also mused about leather sack being good because you simply need the deer pelt and knife/machette only.

I had so much troubles finding rope lately, so that could, from gameplay side only, justify boar backpack to be larger.

 

On a side note. I don't think introducing of large and camoflaged army backpacks would be bad. They could be rare, plus they would be kinda big, making your silhoute bigger and obstructing your overshoulder view. I guess that is not a big of problem on 3rd person servers, but it is a biggie on 1st person.

[ebrim 998]

...

Edit:would love if you could attach some camping equipment to the backpacks. You know like fryin pan, canteen and such.

Also there could be smaller hatchets, still capable of felling a tree, but maybe in more hits...

 

I'm with you there, I'd love to have a hatchet.

[ZomboWTF 527]

yeah +1 for the czech pack from the mod!

Czech backpack was my favorite, crouching down you looked like a stone with legs, instead of looking like an Alice-Pack wearing bandito ;)

[Evil Minion 943]

According to your "gameplay-perspective"-logic, noone would use the Blaze 95, Crossbow, SKS, Ruger 10/22 or the Longhorn, because all these weapons are outshined by far by the AKM, AK101, M4, Mosin, FNX and Magnum.

Thats not the same. In terms of weapons it more similar to the sawnoff shotgun and Obrez - when you can obtain them you already got a more effective weapon (shotgun and Mosin respectively) and the additional resource (hacksaw) is just a waste. Still in this case you got slightly higher dexterity and less inventory space (which is actually a joke as rifles got a free slot anyways). Anyways you could still use them as secondary equipment - but you will only ever have a single backpack at any given time so the old versions would just be harder to obtain while less effective.

 

Civilian and hunting weapons on the other side are not crafted from the same materials as military weapons - sure you might find more effective weapons but you have to find them first and the might be much rarer. Now compare the leather sack and the leather courier bag:

 

Leather Sack:

- needs leather (which in turn needs a knife)

- needs a knife (you got this as you got leather)

- 20 slots

 

Leather Courier Bag

- needs leather (which in turn needs a knife)

- needs a rope (can be quite difficult to find and is usually one-time use)

- 16 slots

- can be upgraded to a 25 slot backpack using sticks

 

Now sticks are fairly common and you can make sticks whenever you have a knife (cut kindlings). So the leather backpack costs more (one rope and possibly knife usage) and gives you an additional 5 slots - seems okay to me. However the courier bag needs the same resources than the leather sack and more while being less effective overall - the only tradeoff is not being able to upgrade into an improvised backpack. So by increasing the capacity to 25 it makes the courier bag more costly at less efficiency. As you can choose freely* instead of having to play the cards you got (guns work that way) there is no reason ever to add a rope to your leather instead of just cutting it up.

 

I think if you have such free choices* either option should have its advantages otherwise the "weaker" choice is just fake or a "noob trap".

 

 

On a side note. I don't think introducing of large and camoflaged army backpacks would be bad. They could be rare, plus they would be kinda big, making your silhoute bigger and obstructing your overshoulder view. I guess that is not a big of problem on 3rd person servers, but it is a biggie on 1st person.

Thats one of the reason why I consider 3rd person a design flaw, You rob yourself of the option to balance things around the field of vision which cuts down your tactical design options. Now I would still like to include this because I like to play on First Person servers anyways - but it might cause serious balance issues on Third Person servers. Now balance is only really needed if having free choices* so it might still be okay if done right (e.g. not making it possible to craft a vision obstructing but otherwise better item and a weaker not obstructing item out of the same resources).

 

*Free choices are situations where having option A always gives you option B as well. Then in order for option A to be a reasonable choice it should have its advantages over option B. Otherwise option A is not really an option but simply a trap. Note that option B being "worse" is not an issue as long as you have situations where you can choose B but cannot choose A.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Evil Minion

[hombrecz 832]

 

Thats one of the reason why I consider 3rd person a design flaw, You rob yourself of the option to balance things around the field of vision which cuts down your tactical design options. Now I would still like to include this because I like to play on First Person servers anyways - but it might cause serious balance issues on Third Person servers. Now balance is only really needed if having free choices* so it might still be okay if done right (e.g. not making it possible to craft a vision obstructing but otherwise better item and a weaker not obstructing item out of the same resources).

 

 

I think that stamina system would balance it for both 1st and 3rd person.

So having huge backpack filled with stuff would slow you down, you could not sprint or just for short periods, you would get hungry faster, because hauling all that stuff would be straining etc.

[irishroy 1347]

Thats not the same. In terms of weapons it more similar to the sawnoff shotgun and Obrez - when you can obtain them you already got a more effective weapon (shotgun and Mosin respectively) and the additional resource (hacksaw) is just a waste. Still in this case you got slightly higher dexterity and less inventory space (which is actually a joke as rifles got a free slot anyways). Anyways you could still use them as secondary equipment - but you will only ever have a single backpack at any given time so the old versions would just be harder to obtain while less effective.

 

Civilian and hunting weapons on the other side are not crafted from the same materials as military weapons - sure you might find more effective weapons but you have to find them first and the might be much rarer. Now compare the leather sack and the leather courier bag:

 

Leather Sack:

- needs leather (which in turn needs a knife)

- needs a knife (you got this as you got leather)

- 20 slots

 

Leather Courier Bag

- needs leather (which in turn needs a knife)

- needs a rope (can be quite difficult to find and is usually one-time use)

- 16 slots

- can be upgraded to a 25 slot backpack using sticks

 

Now sticks are fairly common and you can make sticks whenever you have a knife (cut kindlings). So the leather backpack costs more (one rope and possibly knife usage) and gives you an additional 5 slots - seems okay to me. However the courier bag needs the same resources than the leather sack and more while being less effective overall - the only tradeoff is not being able to upgrade into an improvised backpack. So by increasing the capacity to 25 it makes the courier bag more costly at less efficiency. As you can choose freely* instead of having to play the cards you got (guns work that way) there is no reason ever to add a rope to your leather instead of just cutting it up.

 

I think if you have such free choices* either option should have its advantages otherwise the "weaker" choice is just fake or a "noob trap".

 

 

Hm.

I understand your logic and reasons behind your thinking. 

But I believe, in DayZ, this "logic" can be a bit "left behind" for realism&game-play-balance.

 

Yes, sometimes realism must be screwed to maintain game-balance (that's what you are trying to say, I think?).

But giving both backpacks 25 slots wouldn't hurt the game-balance, I think.

 

Also look at the M4 & AKM: It "costs" "lots of time" to find the M4 on a random crashsite. 5.56-ammo is also not easy to obtain.

the AKM however can be found in normal mil. barracks, can also attach a bipod, has 75 rounds and a far better scope and SKS/AK/CZ-ammo is easier to find, too.

 

So the M4 is hard to find and "use" (=ammo, ACOG, M4-parts, etc.), whereas the AKM is easier to find, and is as good, if not a little bit better than the M4.

[Evil Minion 943]

Yes, sometimes realism must be screwed to maintain game-balance (that's what you are trying to say, I think?).

Pretty much this - with emphasis on "sometimes" and not limited to balance. In fact only if realism would seriously hurt the enjoyment (e.g. needing to sleep ingame) or in case of those "free choices" I mentioned above.

Fortunately DayZ doesn't give free choices very often (thats why weapons should be implemented realistically instead of pvp-balanced for example) but in case it does like:

• sawning off the shotgun or Mosin
• crafting a backpack from leather

there should be a reason to choose a particular option instead of having one "master choice" that beats them all and should be picked every single time.

 

Other than this its more like playing cards - if you stumble across a helicopter spawn you might get dealt a M4 and if you get lucky in a military base you might get dealt a AKM. But life could also give you an Orange instead. Thats perfectly fine and here I would like to have advantages and disadvantages according to their real life counterparts. Thats what makes the game enjoyable after all.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Evil Minion

[Rudette 435]

I think it just comes down to... You use what you can find.
You're not always going to find 'high tier" gear right off the bat. So what do you do? You improvise.

Another factor is comfort.

In several games there are metas. In Street Fighter games, for example, you might be told your character is low tier as compared to other fighters. .. But if you are comfortable in that character's skin and know it's combos, ranges, and math inside and out you're still going to fight better than you would with a character you don't like or don't know.

The same can be said for weapons in DayZ. If you've mastered a "lower tier" weapon's idiosyncrasies and feel comfortable with it you'll probably preform better with it. You can play to the strengths of your weapon, the weaknesses of your enemies' weapons.

 

Edited August 14, 2014 by Rudette

[Grimey Rick 3417]

I just think there's something to be said for having drawbacks to certain gear, rather than military gear being the de facto best stuff every time, which in everything but backpacks it already is. I don't care for perfect balance, DayZ isn't about that, but right now I see no need for adding large military backpacks. Realism or not.

Uh, military stuff IS the best stuff for survival. It's designed to be. It should be properly represented in the game.

[Bororm 1156]

Uh, military stuff IS the best stuff for survival. It's designed to be. It should be properly represented in the game.

 

Yeah it's super boring and one of the cases where I think gameplay should trump realism.  Maybe military gear should just be made more rare or something, or a stamina system should be implemented making you slower the more shit you carry.

 

It's just really dull when 99% of the people you encounter look nearly exactly the same, in full military getup.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

Yeah it's super boring and one of the cases where I think gameplay should trump realism. Maybe military gear should just be made more rare or something, or a stamina system should be implemented making you slower the more shit you carry.

It's just really dull when 99% of the people you encounter look nearly exactly the same, in full military getup.

They should just make military gear rare as hell. Like, really rare. People would literally pick clean military bases the minute shit hit the fan.

Regarding a stamina system: agreed.

[KettyLala 0]

I love my Handmade Leather Rucksack. They're very classic, go with everything, & lasts a lifetime. I have the leather ones, not the signature ones which I find can be a bit trendy. I have a brown Rucksack & a tiny black one as well. I do not need to buy another handbag ever. I use them everyday & they go with everything. They're a bit pricey but well worth the money especially since they never go out of style & are warranted for a lifetime. Good Luck.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Yup, it should be the other way around. Or the big sack could be even 30 slots, the boarskin left 25.

Still can't wait for some rare military camo'ed backpacks like Czech backpack was or the Big Coyote one.

 

Edit:would love if you could attach some camping equipment to the backpacks. You know like fryin pan, canteen and such.

Also there could be smaller hatchets, still capable of felling a tree, but maybe in more hits. Those smaller ones could also be attached to belt or backpack. Something like this:

 

 

I'm with you there, I'd love to have a hatchet.

In reality, the "types" (yes, there are different types of axes) of axes we find in-game would be really shitty at cutting down trees. Notice how they are called "splitting axes"? They have a wedge-shaped head made to separate the wood fibers. A "hewing axe" or "limbing axe" has a concave edge, very thin, made to cut the fibers. 

 

 

You can cut down a tree with a splitting axe, but it is hard work, and your back, shoulders, arms and hands will hate you. Either use a hewing axe, or, more preferably, use a saw. Saws cut more wood with less energy expenditure than any axe.

 

 

Saws like the above are lightweight, compact, and easy to repair (remove nut from blade, take broken blade off, put new blade on, tighten nut) so long as there are spare blades, which, as the above style of folding saws are very common, not rare at all.

 

In reality, hatchets really suck at preparing wood for a fire. They are small and lightweight, yes, but these are points against them, unlike points for the saw. They are too small and too light to effectively split wood, so the user has to use more strength (ie, their own energy) to split a smaller amount of wood, slower than a full-sized axe.

 

Point being: for a specific task, use the tool that was designed for it. Use saws to prepare wood, and splitting axes to split it for burning. And, really, survival fires don't have to be that big, so the splitting axes are really just extraneous weight. I like how we can now build fires just using sticks, instead of having to cut down trees. Maybe the "split wood fires" would burn longer than "stick" fires, giving us a reason to split some wood if we are setting up a permanent camp?

Edited January 5, 2015 by Whyherro123

[B4GEL 175]

In reality, the "types" (yes, there are different types of axes) of axes we find in-game would be really shitty at cutting down trees. Notice how they are called "splitting axes"? They have a wedge-shaped head made to separate the wood fibers. A "hewing axe" or "limbing axe" has a concave edge, very thin, made to cut the fibers.

This is pretty annoying detail to me me too, but there's already too many axes (fire axe, splitting axe and the planned hatchet) to add a felling axe. A saw is definitely needed although I'd prefer something slightly more heavy duty than what you suggest:

 

 

 

As you said "for a specific task, use the tool that was designed for it." and if the tools are larger and can't be carried all by one person, that person's going to have to have interactions with other players which is what the game is all about.