Why...........(movement and avatar control)

[deepfried 95]

you know that CS GO is far away from realism? and dayz trys to be as realistic as possible? thats why :)

 

Yeah no. The main problem is that the dayz engine is a fork of the arma engine, which is an immensely complex (and not terribly efficient) combined arms simulator + its somewhat archaic, being fundamentally just incremental upgrades of the original Operation flashpoint engine from back in 2001. 

[gibonez 3633]

There are great things to take from Counter strike such as the way it provides players subtle feedback on things that dayz completely fucks up.

 

However copying the movement and aiming from that game is absolutely the worst thing they can do.

 

CS is a tactical twitch shooter, dayz is a zombie survival sim.

 

Having lightning fast reflexes would not work in dayz.

[mercules 1290]

It should, but DayZ clearly doesn't. I don't buy that for one moment. 

 

When I press "W" I should IMMEDIATELY move forward, and when I release "W" I should IMMEDIATELY stop. In real life, I don't tell myself to stop and then keep walking so that I overshoot the door that I want to walk into. That's just silly, man! 

 

But if that's real life to you, then maybe you should see a neurologist. ;)

 

It's called "momentum" in real life. When I want to start running I don't IMMEDIATELY move forward. My body actually leans into the direction and gravity starts the process as my muscles start to push me in the direction I want to go. There is a reason when preparing to sprint runners lean forward and down, it is so that their legs can push backwards in a strong motion to get their momentum started in the right direction.

You also don't stop instantly after running, you end up having to take a few last stops pushing against your current momentum. When turning while running you push hard at an angle that has you leaning into the turn. Run wind-sprints for a bit and tell me you start and stop instantly while running. 

 

It's all instinctive so you don't realize how much vectoring your body does to get you moving.

[KingOfTime 267]

It's called "momentum" in real life. When I want to start running I don't IMMEDIATELY move forward. My body actually leans into the direction and gravity starts the process as my muscles start to push me in the direction I want to go. There is a reason when preparing to sprint runners lean forward and down, it is so that their legs can push backwards in a strong motion to get their momentum started in the right direction.

You also don't stop instantly after running, you end up having to take a few last stops pushing against your current momentum. When turning while running you push hard at an angle that has you leaning into the turn. Run wind-sprints for a bit and tell me you start and stop instantly while running. 

 

It's all instinctive so you don't realize how much vectoring your body does to get you moving.

That was kind of my point, thanks for typing that up. The time between my original comment and his/her response made me lose interest.

[bauertschi 254]

It's called "momentum" in real life. When I want to start running I don't IMMEDIATELY move forward. My body actually leans into the direction and gravity starts the process as my muscles start to push me in the direction I want to go. There is a reason when preparing to sprint runners lean forward and down, it is so that their legs can push backwards in a strong motion to get their momentum started in the right direction.

You also don't stop instantly after running, you end up having to take a few last stops pushing against your current momentum. When turning while running you push hard at an angle that has you leaning into the turn. Run wind-sprints for a bit and tell me you start and stop instantly while running. 

 

It's all instinctive so you don't realize how much vectoring your body does to get you moving.

 

You say "It's all instinctive...". We can run up directly to the corner of a wall without putting conscious thought into how exactly we will slow down. If the system would work fluently, you could get reproducable results here, but I always feel like we don't really get those. It's often just a little off. Maybe that's desync and the server and client discussing just where you are.

 

Momentum is a funny thing. We have it when starting and stopping to run. But we don't have it at all where it matters the most for me: When changing direction while running. A reason why I don't fear snipers with the way we can run around. I want momentum there.

[ld-airgrafix 403]

Why................?

Do people play dayz when they so clearly want to play a different game?

This is so true, everyone wants to turn dayz into their "perfect" game, which is usually what they already play and own. I just want a zombie survival game, is that too much to ask.

[mercules 1290]

You say "It's all instinctive...". We can run up directly to the corner of a wall without putting conscious thought into how exactly we will slow down. If the system would work fluently, you could get reproducable results here, but I always feel like we don't really get those. It's often just a little off. Maybe that's desync and the server and client discussing just where you are.

 

Momentum is a funny thing. We have it when starting and stopping to run. But we don't have it at all where it matters the most for me: When changing direction while running. A reason why I don't fear snipers with the way we can run around. I want momentum there.

 

Yes, the controls are not exact yet and I think you might be on to something with thinking it could be desync or at least the communication with the server. Most of the time though the game responds to my commands exactly as I put them in. Every once in a while I get caught up or overstep but I also only play 1st person.

 

I do use a TrackIR though and so some of my movement is head only and I think that makes everything a bit more smooth for me in that I can snap the avatar's head to the side and then turn the body or focus in and out just by leaning. I can glance down while my gun is pointed up or vise versa. It's possible that is making everything feel more "natural" for me.

[OrLoK 16182]

Is it so hard? Imagine if they made dayZ but just like the way counter-strike GO is. The same fluidity. I can imagine an open world every time I play CS:GO. If they could make the combat as dope as CSGO but in an open world environment.. it would change the game. Im not sure why it's so difficult to make it as smoothe/fluid as an FPS like CSGO or COD Even.

Title edited for clarity.

 

L

[chepaco3290 59]

It's called "momentum" in real life. When I want to start running I don't IMMEDIATELY move forward. My body actually leans into the direction and gravity starts the process as my muscles start to push me in the direction I want to go. There is a reason when preparing to sprint runners lean forward and down, it is so that their legs can push backwards in a strong motion to get their momentum started in the right direction.

You also don't stop instantly after running, you end up having to take a few last stops pushing against your current momentum. When turning while running you push hard at an angle that has you leaning into the turn. Run wind-sprints for a bit and tell me you start and stop instantly while running. 

 

It's all instinctive so you don't realize how much vectoring your body does to get you moving.

 

Like you said, "It's all instinctive." I am aware of the physics involved in kinetic energy and momentum. But when I choose to walk from my kitchen to my dining room table, I don't consciously tell myself "To begin walking I must shift my body weight and slightly lean in the direction I wish to go." And when I approach my destination, I know for a FACT that I don't have to consciously tell myself to stop walking. When I decide to walk, I perceive it to be instantaneous. And when I want to stop, it's instantaneous from a conscious perspective, regardless of what physics were involved in helping me stop.

 

The clunkiness of these controls are no where near "real life" because in this video game, we make conscious decision on precisely when we want to sprint, or stop, and those decisions are based on a button that we press. In real life, though, this is all done subconsciously which causes us to perceive it to be instantaneous and precise.

[mercules 1290]

The clunkiness of these controls are no where near "real life" because in this video game, we make conscious decision on precisely when we want to sprint, or stop, and those decisions are based on a button that we press. In real life, though, this is all done subconsciously which causes us to perceive it to be instantaneous and precise.

 

However, the reason you perceive clunkiness from button pushes is because of years of video games that ignored momentum having "trained" you that you move in that manner on screen. You are arguing that you want real life but when you play a video game that actually adds weight to the guns and avatar you feel "off" in your movement because previously everything was pressing W moves you forward at X speed, letting W up IMMEDIATELY stopped your movement. That has been the default in most FPS for years and years and your reflexes are trained to that. Now more and more games are adding in a bit of "weight" and momentum and it feels off. 

DayZ does have some control issues, but not as much as most of you think because some of it seems to be actual weight in your movement that you are not used to and not just lag and the normal issues maneuvering your hitboxes around objects that games have until they are cleaned up. It is an Alpha so you will have a good deal of that yet, but on top of that you have a different movement system that is not binary on/off 10kph or 0 but has acceleration and deceleration. 

[Funkmaster Rick 373]

Firstly, I think OP deserves a bit of an apology on this one. It looks like you're fairly new Cole, and while your question was innocent, you used a few buzzwords that turn some members of this community into raving lunatics.

 

Namely, you mentioned CS:GO and CoD. These are big no-nos in this community. Sure, your comparison was useful, but as soon as you say CoD a good third of the community will write you off for even having heard about that game this one time. This stigma results from an on-going "debate" about kill-on-sight banditry, as one party might call it, and being a giant douchenozzle, which the other party might call it. Basically, 95%+ run around deathmatching in this game, and they like to blame CoD and other arcade-style shooters for that. They think having smelled the long-chain monomers from a freshly-opened package of Call of Duty from twenty feet away forever taints you and prohibits you from playing DayZ. So while your comparison was valid, you'll notice it's rankled a bunch of people. Sorry about that. Ignore them. Maybe try not to mention other games in the future; this community seems to frown on comparisons. Lots of fanboyism. Tread carefully.

 

As far as I know, the dev team actually has a lot of plans regarding fluidity of control. They've recognized that almost nobody truly enjoys this clunky system of motion, but they're also committed to authenticity - in other words, they'll be making movement much more fluid, but you should always expect some manner of clunk. I think I heard they've looking to really focus on turning breaching (the act of entering a potentially hostile building carefully and safely) into a realistic tactic, and make cornering less of a hassle. So there's hope.

 

But it's an alpha-stage game, so your patience on this particular point must be robust. You'll find that at least half of this forum community doesn't really understand what alpha means. Try not to be them. The half of this forum community that gets the whole alpha thing seems to be getting more and more annoyed at this lack of understanding.

[chepaco3290 59]

However, the reason you perceive clunkiness from button pushes is because of years of video games that ignored momentum having "trained" you that you move in that manner on screen. You are arguing that you want real life but when you play a video game that actually adds weight to the guns and avatar you feel "off" in your movement because previously everything was pressing W moves you forward at X speed, letting W up IMMEDIATELY stopped your movement. That has been the default in most FPS for years and years and your reflexes are trained to that. Now more and more games are adding in a bit of "weight" and momentum and it feels off. 

DayZ does have some control issues, but not as much as most of you think because some of it seems to be actual weight in your movement that you are not used to and not just lag and the normal issues maneuvering your hitboxes around objects that games have until they are cleaned up. It is an Alpha so you will have a good deal of that yet, but on top of that you have a different movement system that is not binary on/off 10kph or 0 but has acceleration and deceleration. 

 

I'm not arguing against the fact that movement in DayZ is "different." Obviously it is, or else we wouldn't be having this discussion. I'm also not even technically arguing for a truly RL movement experience. RL is boring, that's why I'm playing a video game. I'm simply arguing AGAINST the opinion of some that DayZ IS like RL, because it most definitely is not. To the OP's suggestion, I'd consider CS:GO controls to be more representative of RL because in RL everything is perceived to be instantaneous whether or not it actually is. In DayZ, you have to consciously decide to release your button before you arrive at your destination, and this just is not, in any way shape or form, reflective of RL experience. Regardless of whether I'm hiking with 50lbs on my back, every move I make, whether it be to turn left, turn right, stop, or go, is perceived to be instantaneous in my mind. I don't accidentally keep walking and run into a tree when I meant to strafe left. So I believe this should be the case in DayZ as well. Clunky movement adds absolutely nothing to gameplay other than frustration. 

[OrLoK 16182]

Hello there

 

I would prefer more intuative movement.

 

A halfway house between the realism of Arma and the fluidity of BF3.

 

Now, wait.

 

I didnt say bunny hopping or dolphin diving or being able to run at 30 mph.

 

I argued for years on the BI forums for better avatar control and had the same old "its not COD!","MOMENTUM!!!11!" , "ITS NOT A GAEM IT R MILSIMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!111111!!!!""£$$%%£""!"" thrown at me, but I bet all those guys who railed at my opinion now love the more fluid animations of A3.

 

I want stuff like momentum, I want long weapons to inhibit my movement in narrow confines, I want to feel like Im wearing heavy kit, I want all of that lovely sim-ness.

 

What I dont like is having to "fight" my avatar to get him in place or "just" peek around a corner without stepping 4 feet from where Im hiding.

 

Ok, I exaggerate. But any OFP/Arma vet will know of what I speak.

 

I have been in situations where im handling a 12 ft Pike in formation in Armour and hung over  with 2 dozen grumpy bikers (dont ask), now that's an unwieldy object but I could still move where I wanted and still deftly maneuver (low branches were a hazard though).

 

Ive got modern webbing, bergen and even ABC kit here and again on the whole I can move just fine in most of it.

 

Now, put me in tough terrain and a nasty climate and exhaust me a bit and well perhaps not so much...

 

And thats what "I" want.

 

I want to be able to move well and accurately, i also want to be disoriented and puking after a 10 mile yomp carrying an LMG and as many fags as I can carrry.

 

Both sides have their points, its finding a decent middle ground and then once weve done that, working out if the engine can handle it.

 

One thing to keep in mind though is that with better FPS ARMA/DAYZ movement feels far far better, but its not often that the average joe gets that great FPS at the moment, so we have to take that into account.

 

I may come back and edit this, Ive got some solicitor forms just landed on my desk that need my immediate attention. Bear with me.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[battlerhd 116]

Simply would not work

[mercules 1290]

I'm not arguing against the fact that movement in DayZ is "different." Obviously it is, or else we wouldn't be having this discussion. I'm also not even technically arguing for a truly RL movement experience. RL is boring, that's why I'm playing a video game. I'm simply arguing AGAINST the opinion of some that DayZ IS like RL, because it most definitely is not. To the OP's suggestion, I'd consider CS:GO controls to be more representative of RL because in RL everything is perceived to be instantaneous whether or not it actually is. In DayZ, you have to consciously decide to release your button before you arrive at your destination, and this just is not, in any way shape or form, reflective of RL experience. Regardless of whether I'm hiking with 50lbs on my back, every move I make, whether it be to turn left, turn right, stop, or go, is perceived to be instantaneous in my mind. I don't accidentally keep walking and run into a tree when I meant to strafe left. So I believe this should be the case in DayZ as well. Clunky movement adds absolutely nothing to gameplay other than frustration. 

 

The times when I run into a tree instead of stopping are LAG. Otherwise I am pretty used to the ARMA II and DayZ controls and how they respond. Thus it is no longer a "Conscious" decision. That is what I am trying to say to you. You believe other games have control systems closer to RL because you have played them so long that is how you expect bodies in RL to react... they don't. I don't want to say L2P... but experience makes a difference.