Some Constructive Criticism about developemental direction: (WARNING! LONG POST!)

[crazykage 1063]

I just want to reiterate, that my "concerns":

 

1: Do NOT leave me wholly unsatisfied with the greater picture. Truth be told, I am more pleased than unpleased. 

 

2: That my concerns, once again, do NOT relate to content we know to be coming. This is an aspect of the games current phase of development.

 

3: I do NOT have any concerns about development PACE. Fast or slow, take as much time as is needed, I say.

 

4: My concerns relate chiefly to design CHOICES, and DIRECTION. IE. the decision to, from the beginning, have unrealistic, arbitrary mechanics such as ballistics (being worked on as we speak), and the inventory system. OR the design direction that seems to lean more towards simplification over (appropriate) realism.

 

5: Lastly, the fact that more interaction is, in my opinion, needed here in the forums from members of the development team. There are legitimate reasons, which have been expressed already in this thread, why this isn't so. In addition, one COULD argue that I should just knuckle under and use twitter, FB, or reddit (I refuse out of personal principles I wont get into). It is ALSO true that work is being done to create some sort of upgrade to the current system already here. I don't think it is enough. Yes, there are a LOT LOT LOT more people registered here than on the space engi forums. True. But the same could be said of reddit no? Yet Dean is more active there than anywhere else. I honestly think the community, and the game itself, would severely benefit from a more active presence here. It would be so awesome if, say, Mr. Rocket himself popped in now and again to say "no, we have no intention of doing that", or "we are already considering how that might be implemented", or "Wow, why didn't we think of that? We will have to take a serious look into that."

 

Of course, there are going to be ragers, trolls, and flamers. Ignore them. Just like I was saying about Space engis, the devs there accept ideas from the community, yes. But only those that fit into THEIR vision. The ones that don't are rejected, and naysayers either politely complain and insist, or rudely complain and insist. The later get squashed by the moderators, and the general community even begins to reject the views of those who repeatedly show a lack of maturity. I honestly do believe it could be done here.

 

Outside of all that, I have no other concerns, bitches, moans, groans, or complaints.

 

EDIT: Also, a further thanks to all who have posted or read thus far, and kept any (if any) immaturity to themselves.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Crazykage

[Zed's Dead 67]

There is a reason the dayz team only uses reddit and other social media to communicate.......... Social media is a more one sided form of communication. They can just tweet something and not have to discuss or answer questions as much like this forum would encourage.

If they dont want to look deceptive or unconcerned with the people that made them rich, all they have to do is hire a part time public relations person who can help with their image by a more two way form of communication.

I have never heard of such a largely funded company being so unapproachable.

2 years ago sears screwed up my fridge delivery. I filed a complaint. Within 2 days, a regional executive who oversees customers for 4 or 5 states personally called me and sent a check for 300 bucks.

[haknslash 763]

Hmm seeing a lot of "development slow" type posts here but it just isn't true...

 

They budgeted one year to include core features and lets take a look....

 

Hunting....IN

Navmesh.....IN

Tents.....IN

Cooking....IN

Network bubble....IN

Real Melee...IN

Loot respawn....Waiting

New renderer....Waiting

More zombies....Waiting

Vehicles....Waiting

 

That aint bad, more than half way through the features a little over halfway through projected alpha time. Bearing in mind the logistics and other issues involved with allocation of the funds they didn't know they would have when the project started. Some of the guys saying they have business experience should be able to understand that.

 

Also the budgeted a year after alpha to refine and polish the features. Now with what they have accomplished thus far plus the rest of the alpha and the beta......sorry but they are pretty much right on track. Bar the understandable delays with funds allocation.

 

Its simply impatience, they told us it would be a year till all features were in....it hasn't been a year yet.....they told us another year for beta.....that hasn't even started yet. No fanboi-ism in this post.... just facts :)

Hey now!! Don't you bring up any of that sound logic in these kinds of threads. How dare you! Don't you know you're just supposed to start firing off nonsense about things that have been discussed over and over? I mean come on man get with the program here! We're trying to create the most illogical, toxic, entitled, impatient gaming community to ever exist so step in line of get outta the way! :D

Edited July 31, 2014 by haknslash

[haknslash 763]

There is a reason the dayz team only uses reddit and other social media to communicate.......... Social media is a more one sided form of communication. They can just tweet something and not have to discuss or answer questions as much like this forum would encourage.

If they dont want to look deceptive or unconcerned with the people that made them rich, all they have to do is hire a part time public relations person who can help with their image by a more two way form of communication.

I have never heard of such a largely funded company being so unapproachable.

2 years ago sears screwed up my fridge delivery. I filed a complaint. Within 2 days, a regional executive who oversees customers for 4 or 5 states personally called me and sent a check for 300 bucks.

Unapproachable? You can literally hop on reddit and ask a question and if it's worthy of a response (IE: hasn't been asked over and over already) then chances are someone with the team will respond to you or at least the thread you're replying in. They don't really have a "community manager" but I think at one time they were looking into it. Strange you mention they are unapproachable when I've played with Hicks a few times and chatted with him in stream. He's always been great to talk to so I'm not sure where you're getting this idea they don't interact with the community on Reddit, Twitter or even in livestreams. If there is one place they don't interact much it's on here and I would agree with you there. While this place is the "official" DayZ forums this is not the place to interact directly with the devs,

[crazykage 1063]

While this place is the "official" DayZ forums this is not the place to interact directly with the devs,

 

Why not? I would think that this would be the PRIME place to do it. BECAUSE it is the "official" forum. Why shouldn't this be the FIRST place people go to for up to date information.

 

THIS is where all the true "die hard" fans are. Why else would we be HERE, discussing these and other things? Why aren't ALL of us at reddit, or tweeting, or using FB exclusively for discussion, debate, or complaint? Because this is where the majority of people who are truly passionate about the game come.

 

I will also restate the fact that I think it IS smart for the devs to use those resources, and I think they should continue to do so. But why NOT here? How is the potential for flaming or raging or trolling any worse here than on reddit? Frankly, I think it would be worse over there. I know for a fact that people deliberately down vote sane, logical, intelligent posts. Which is why Rocket makes an effort to also read down voted posts: he knows what the trolls are doing, yet he doesn't shy away from dealing with it. And I'm not even saying he personally needs to talk to us every day. But he and others, COULD stand to interact with their most die hard fans a little more.

[haknslash 763]

Why not? I would think that this would be the PRIME place to do it. BECAUSE it is the "official" forum. Why shouldn't this be the FIRST place people go to for up to date information.

 

THIS is where all the true "die hard" fans are. Why else would we be HERE, discussing these and other things? Why aren't ALL of us at reddit, or tweeting, or using FB exclusively for discussion, debate, or complaint? Because this is where the majority of people who are truly passionate about the game come.

 

I will also restate the fact that I think it IS smart for the devs to use those resources, and I think they should continue to do so. But why NOT here? How is the potential for flaming or raging or trolling any worse here than on reddit? Frankly, I think it would be worse over there. I know for a fact that people deliberately down vote sane, logical, intelligent posts. Which is why Rocket makes an effort to also read down voted posts: he knows what the trolls are doing, yet he doesn't shy away from dealing with it. And I'm not even saying he personally needs to talk to us every day. But he and others, COULD stand to interact with their most die hard fans a little more.

You don't need to capitalize words to get your points across. ;)

 

As far as being on this forum, well you've already posted in an appropriate thread for that topic http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/200855-why-dont-the-devs-post-content-on-the-official-forums/. My hunch is their replies and reactions can be much more instant on places like Twitter and Reddit. Do I like those mediums? Not really, but I use them only for a means of keeping up with the devs. It's not hard and I really don't understand why people feel they must post on this forum anyways. Would it be nice? Sure, but it's also not like you can't just follow them on twitter or reddit to stay informed. Nobody is "ignoring you" like you mentioned in your post in that link. I agree it would be nice if they posted here but they don't and aren't likely going to, so there's really no point in getting worked up over it. This has been discussed on here more than once and it's just not something we're likely to ever get a solid answer on so I just adapted to the "hipster mediums", albeit somewhat unwillingly at first.

Edited July 31, 2014 by haknslash

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

Also, a lot of problems with the game can also stem from the surge of new players after release. A lot of these people simply watched videos, and assumed that the game was nothing but a shooter and PVP. Therefore, even if all the survival mechanics and balancing are in place, it will still be VERY difficult to persuade anyone otherwise. So we'll simply have diseased, starving, and dying airfield campers instead of healthy campers...

 

Still, it's a change.

[Zed's Dead 67]

Unapproachable? You can literally hop on reddit and ask a question and if it's worthy of a response (IE: hasn't been asked over and over already) then chances are someone with the team will respond to you or at least the thread you're replying in. They don't really have a "community manager" but I think at one time they were looking into it. Strange you mention they are unapproachable when I've played with Hicks a few times and chatted with him in stream. He's always been great to talk to so I'm not sure where you're getting this idea they don't interact with the community on Reddit, Twitter or even in livestreams. If there is one place they don't interact much it's on here and I would agree with you there. While this place is the "official" DayZ forums this is not the place to interact directly with the devs,

Then why do they avoid the official forum like the plague?   And how many more fans are on the forum than reddit?

 

They know only die hard fans who are obsessed with new content without regard for core problems of the game are  on reddit as opposed to the casual gamer who is more likely to be on the official forums which is who make up more of their sales.

[haknslash 763]

Then why do they avoid the official forum like the plague?   And how many more fans are on the forum than reddit?

 

They know only die hard fans who are obsessed with new content without regard for core problems of the game are  on reddit as opposed to the casual gamer who is more likely to be on the official forums which is who make up more of their sales.

See my reply above to crazykage in regards to devs using this forum. 

 

You're assuming the devs aren't working on core mechanics now and only interested in content because of Redditors? SMH. In this single update alone......64 bit servers = content? Navmesh = content? Weapons balancing = content? Please show me this metric data you're pulling these accusations from. I have a feeling it comes from a dark brown orifice. Please don't make me go back to all the changelogs and copy/paste them here. You'd probably be surprised the ratio of content versus fixes but people often look over those facts.

Edited July 31, 2014 by haknslash

[crazykage 1063]

See my reply above to crazykage in regards to devs using this forum. 

 

You're assuming the devs aren't working on core mechanics now and only intereted in content because of Redditors? In this single update alone......64 bit servers = content? Navmesh = content? Weapons balancing = content? Please show me this metric data you're pulling these accusations from. I have a feeling it comes from a dark brown orifice.

 

For one, as I keep saying, this thread wasn't meant to discuss "content". Content is coming, and it will get here when it does. Nor is it about development pace. My concerns weren't with content, but design choice and direction. And better community interaction.

 

And lastly, please refrain from such comments as that which is at the end of your post.

[haknslash 763]

For one, as I keep saying, this thread wasn't meant to discuss "content". Content is coming, and it will get here when it does. Nor is it about development pace. My concerns weren't with content, but design choice and direction. And better community interaction.

 

And lastly, please refrain from such comments as that which is at the end of your post.

This issue wth your concerns is they have been discussed repeatedly. We're in the first stages of weapon balancing. A new UI will be implemented along with most of your other concerns in regards to loot tables and rarity. It takes time and we're 8 months in people. This is alpha not beta. I think people often get those aspects confused and just how different those two phases are in game development.

 

As far as my comment towards someone else, with all due respect get over yourself, even if this if your thread. Besides it was meant to be taken in a light-hearted manner. I could of just been an asshole and said to him "quit pulling shit out of your ass and spamming the boards with nonsense"....but I didn't.

Edited July 31, 2014 by haknslash

[Zed's Dead 67]

My apologies for going off topic.   As for content,  I'm happy with content and still very positive the game will improve.

[Chroma 61]

Damn this is a good thread!

I Admittedly skimmed through a lot of posts (seemed to get bogged down between a group arguing initially and i skipped the majority)

I share a LOT of the same concerns and figured things where placeholders and then DayZ became a victim of its own success (like the x86 ISA where silicon is wasted on legacy to prevent the outcry) and to a large degree DayZ has fallen victim to its own success on a numer of fronts.
I agree there should be an inventory overhaul that strikes a balance between visual representation, volume and mass, however im clueless as to how that could be achieved in a way that serves both realism and enjoyment. im certainly in no position to make educated comments, UI design isn't even close to my wheelhouse. I can also see a shitstorm occurring over it because 100% happy 100% of the time is simply not feasible, and finding a balance with a majority is difficult on fundamental core gameplay aspects.

I'm involved with SpaceEngineers and love that the devs are active in the community, everything seems collated and there's a real sense of ownership, and involvement but its on an entirely different scale than DayZ which brings me to Shrubs point...

why don't rocket do one post evry week IN official forums just quick one? make explain about what is happen and new ideas what is coming and maybe say is some problem what they try fix I know evry one say 'ROCKET LOVE THE REDDIT' but I DONT LOVE REDDIT I LOVE DAYZ and I coming here for the news because is official forum but man who invent game he don't coming here??? is not making good sense

 

he can post same news on here AND THE REDDIT but if I am honest it make me feel a disrespect of me because I paying money to ha;lp testing in alpha beta but if I want to find the news about what is happen I am need to do internet hunt like detective, I never play mod and I am new for dayz but I think is great idea with many problem and I am interest to know what the boss of dayz is do for plan of the future and I want to find this iNformations IN THIS PLACE PLEASE not going some place name reddit

The reason to use reddit is simple, its governed by a majority, someone posts something and if you like it, you upvote it dont like it and you down vote it.
It gives a good view on the bellcurve, ideas that the community loves get up-voted and float to the top, ideas that the community hate get down-voted to the bottom, so you can see a fairly accurate cross section of how people will react if you add a feature without having to pay a dime for the hard work of moderating everything ;)

This forum is insanely busy, again because DayZ is popular, and whereas the Mod initially attracted a more mature audience because it was constructed from Arma II players, it took off and by the time the SA released, there was a much wider demographic to attempt to satisfy.
So you get some really great threads on this forum, mixed in with an awful lot of a lot of shitposting, and its hard to tell one from another unless you're reading everything.
Its a nightmare to moderate, and not everyone has thick skin, especially when you're working hard on creating something you consider beautiful and have a personal stake in, then putting it up for criticism.

I'd love the devs to take a more personal and involved approach to these very forums, but i can understand their reticence to do so.
It doesn't sting any less that i find most decent information on there, before being posted here however :(

 

That's why we have the DevTracker.

Everything is there, on these forums, and soon we will have a better version that will filter out the irrelevant stuff.

This is the best news I've heard all month! the tracker right now is a nightmare, id love to submit but trying to filter known bugs from all the junk is futile, and i don't like wasting someones time by adding to the fiasco, the only thing i do regularly on there is upvote known relevant bugs, but its like wading through a swamp!


And as for the crazies who are in the "The Devs have fleeced us!" camp...
Just take a look at John Romero, what project of any real significance has he worked on since Ion Storm?
A games "Hype" will get you far, a reliable reputation will get you a WHOLE LOT FURTHER.
Every job Dean has later in his career will be referenced from how this project went.
Reputation in this industry means waaay more than making money off a single title, Romero is an easy target, but the industry is full of cases of vapour ware, insane time scales, and fallen rock-stars Peter Molyneux for instance (syndicate, populous, theme park, dungeon master) I've not trusted him since he released Black and White, tried Fable and was not a fan, Now that i think on it, I've disliked everything hes done since Bullfrog! 
The industry is littered with these stories.
I wish Dean all the success in the world, and don't envy the pressure that's on him one bit!
And the commentators shitposting about the mans vacation time?
To those i say "before judging a man, first walk a mile in their shoes... and then? who cares? you're a mile away and you have their shoes!"

Overall a very high quality thread! im glad i didnt miss this one! 
BEANS!

[Baker. 1484]

The beauty of it all is that the lot of us are merely speculating and defending these speculations like they are truth. In reality the game may be shit and die on the vine, or it may become the greatest software title of our generation. Since neither of those things has happened yet we are left to yammer at each on on hypothetical and postulated  "maybe's".

 

Here's hoping the game turns out great so I have something to play, and here's hoping it doesn't so my suspicions were justified. Win/WIn Lose/Lose.