Can people stop saying...

[jubeidok 495]

I think the game needs to feel realistic, intuitively, even if some elements of it are toned down for the sake of "fun". Being able to jog and sprint for unlimited distances without any penalty just feels wrong to me. So does being shot several times and still being able to run around as if nothing happened.

 

There's no good reason why the game should allow players to traverse the entire map in a single, short play-session, just because "it would be annoying to meet up with friends otherwise". Forcing us to spend more time in a single portion of the map, and making long journeys into a real mission/adventure is something that adds to the fun, not detracts from it.

 

Similarly, stamina affecting your ability to carry heavy equipment would add to the enjoyment. It would give you more decisions to make, give much more variety to the lives of your character and between the lives of different players. Complicated (not necessarily ultra-realistic) medical, health, injury mechanics add to this variety to scope for different play methods. Having weather and terrain affect your character more adds to the experience, adds to the fun.

 

The assumption, when deciding whether or not some new feature would be too realistic in order to maintain fun gameplay, should be that, actually, it would not be. Start with the game being as realistic (and therefore potentially very difficult) as possible, and then tone it down if it's proving to be annoying, rather than starting with the assumption that realism will be bad, and then under-cook the authenticity.

 

I think the whole sense of adventure and how long it takes to traverse the map changes, 100 % when zombies are plentiful and have a proper AI routine, like in the mod. When this happens and you can stealthily stalk your way through a town of zeds, finding relief in each new building you get to, it will naturally take much longer to make it through each town.

 

I remember back when I first started playing the mod and it was an adventure for us to make it from an Elektro spawn to the dam just up the street from it. It was probably about an hour trip to stealth your way through Elektro if you were actually trying to avoid detection from zeds and other players. Sadly, I don't know if we'll ever see this type of gameplay again though. It would drive away too much of the game's current casual player base. =(

[DeatHTaX 1217]

I think it would be cool to eventually get to epoch difficulty status.

 

I don't care who you are, starting out fresh on that game is pretty difficult compared to dayz SA. I would eventually like that level of difficulty in the SA for getting loot and traveling from town to town

[Katana67 2907]

Authenticity is developer-speak for "We value 'realistic' approaches, but only inasmuch as it concerns making decent gameplay." In other words, if "realism" actually makes for an interesting mechanic, then it will be applied. If it doesn't, it will be discarded in favor of something else.

 

There is a difference. Maybe not as much as Merriam-Webster is concerned. But as far as the terms are applied and used in the context of DayZ, there's a difference.

 

To demonstrate this, the developers of Battlefield 4 also strove for "authenticity." Would you call that game realistic?

 

So no, they aren't really interested in pure realism. Because if they were, they'd be slaves to it. Rather than being pragmatic in deciding which "realistic" aspects should be included and which aspects shouldn't.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Katana67

[randomspawn 215]

... Still I would like an "as much realism as possible" approach especially when it benefits the game in general (like realistic gun ballistics, damage and recoil).

And there is the rub, if you think on it. You see adding more ballistics and such to be beneficial, while others, myself included, don't see it that way at all. Do you want realism? Then spawn the guns with clips and ammo in them. 100% empty guns makes zero sense, but it does improve gameplay, imo. But I also realize that others might feel it hurts gameplay. Who is right? The 40% who feel one way, the 40% who feel the other, or the 20% who shot you for asking a question?

 

We are all equal, but all special snowflakes at the same time. Of course, my snowflake is a slight bit better than anyone elses, but that's to be expected, right?

[B33F 4]

Realistic is just a marketing term to attract certain players. A really realistic video game would be boring as hell and take years to pass the first stages. There's not a single sane person that would sit down and play a realistic game.

The authentic part of the game is what keeps me playing personally. There are many more polished games that are very similar (DayZ SA for example) that I chose not to play (yet) as it seems to have lost some of that authenticity in exchange for accessibility

... all terms just spewed from the developers to attract their target audience.

Let's just count our blessings that we don't hear much about making the game more "accessible to all players" since that means dumbed-down to the majority of players. Even though that's not necessarily the definition of Accessible ;)

[ld-airgrafix 403]

Realistic is just a marketing term to attract certain players. A really realistic video game would be boring as hell and take years to pass the first stages. There's not a single sane person that would sit down and play a realistic game.

The authentic part of the game is what keeps me playing personally. There are many more polished games that are very similar (DayZ SA for example) that I chose not to play (yet) as it seems to have lost some of that authenticity in exchange for accessibility

... all terms just spewed from the developers to attract their target audience.

Let's just count our blessings that we don't hear much about making the game more "accessible to all players" since that means dumbed-down to the majority of players. Even though that's not necessarily the definition of Accessible ;)

I for one wouldnt play a realistic game, if it meant i really die when my avatar gets killed as well, ha ha

[skypig 139]

realism is great until it reaches the point that you have to take off your backpack, set it down, open it up, reach inside and dig around, take out what you wanted, close the backpack, put it back on and then continue on your way... or opening a can of Tuna while running? lol you'd spill all over yourself and the Z's would smell you a mile away.

so yeah people do need to consider things when they call for realism across the board

[archamedes 238]

 

New spawn bambis should be weaker than hardened, long-lasted survivors, and their body language (ie. animated movement) should show it, ideally. Surviving should be difficult and punishing - not because "it's realistic", but because it adds depth to the gameplay and makes DayZ better than the competition.

 

Um you start off hungry, thirsty unarmed and weak. you are vulnerable, you are weaker and being a freshspawn is the hardest part of the game. As soon as you get a light green energized and a light green hydrated your player then begins "healing" even if you havent been injured because you start off unhealthy and only a few hits from a zombie will kill you

[pillock 850]

Um you start off hungry, thirsty unarmed and weak. you are vulnerable, you are weaker and being a freshspawn is the hardest part of the game. As soon as you get a light green energized and a light green hydrated your player then begins "healing" even if you havent been injured because you start off unhealthy and only a few hits from a zombie will kill you

 

Yes, but it could be taken much further. I hope it is as development carries on.

 

It's too easy to get "Healthy", and not different enough in terms of affecting your ability to survive and operate effectively in the environment.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I think it's pretty clear what the difference between authentic and "realistic" is.. Realistic pertains to reality - The natural world. There are no zombies in the natural world, but if there were, you could represent them in an "authentic" way.. A way which abides by the laws of physics.

 

Ever seen the movie "Event Horizon"? A faster-than-light drive which opens a black hole, and that black hole happens to be a portal to hell? Totally unrealistic.. But done in an authentic way which made it scary as fuck.

 

How do you know that it's not realistic? Just because something hasn't happened or doesn't make sense doesn't mean it can't or won't happen, there is no such thing as "fact" scientifically.

 

Just because zombies aren't true to nature now doesn't mean everything else isn't aiming to be realistic...

The medical system aims to be as realistic as possible, the shooting, cooking etc zombies aren't that big a part of the gameplay right now they're just like included in this trying-to-be realistic and authentic game.

 

 

The only thing, with the very minor difference, they're trying to make "authentic" currently are the zombies, that's only thing in the game that isn't as of yet a real thing that they're trying to replicate as best as possible.

 

Every single other thing people claim they want to be "authentic" is something that's also aiming to be "realistic"

 

So there's only slightly a discussion to be had about zombies.

[mercules 1290]

They are the exact same freaking thing, I've seen huge arguments over this and had so many people say it to me and it's just so stupid...

They are not the same thing. Authentic Mexican food is not the same as "real mexican". Authentic Mexican Food means they used the proper ingrediants in the propper manner and came up with as real of an aproximation as they could. It's nuanced, but there is a difference.

 

I think it would be cool to eventually get to epoch difficulty status.

Say what? When I hop on a new Epoch server, even one without the 1000+ cars and starter loadout crap, I typically have a solid gun, full toolbelt setup with rangefinder and NVGs, large backpack, and an SUV with a key in about 3 hours play at most. Basically you loot anything that is small but sells for a good amount on your way to a trader fixing up whatever vehicle you might find along the way if you can.

 

 

How do you know that it's not realistic? Just because something hasn't happened or doesn't make sense doesn't mean it can't or won't happen, there is no such thing as "fact" scientifically.

Um.... I don't think you understand science if you make that claim.

 

Just because zombies aren't true to nature now doesn't mean everything else isn't aiming to be realistic...

The medical system aims to be as realistic as possible, the shooting, cooking etc zombies aren't that big a part of the gameplay right now they're just like included in this trying-to-be realistic and authentic game.

Yes, they are striving to be authentic because they understand a game can not be realistic.

Every single other thing people claim they want to be "authentic" is something that's also aiming to be "realistic"

Wrong. In a realistic game butchering a cow would require a good bit of skill to not ruin the meat and hide. In an authentic game butchering a cow requires approriate tools and results in appropriate in game items.

[doctorbadsign 645]

I think everyone should stop referring to a video game in such a way as to assume that it is even plausible to achieve anything remotely close to realistic or authentic within that medium. 

 

It's a game, controlled with mouse and keyboard. Corners need to be cut here and there. Certain things are just plain infeasible. Other considerations such as it actually being entertaining also come into play. 

 

Sure we can push for certain mechanics to give the game a certain feel, but the game is never going to be realistic.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

1. They are not the same thing. Authentic Mexican food is not the same as "real mexican". Authentic Mexican Food means they used the proper ingrediants in the propper manner and came up with as real of an aproximation as they could. It's nuanced, but there is a difference.

 

 

2. Um.... I don't think you understand science if you make that claim.

 

3. Yes, they are striving to be authentic because they understand a game can not be realistic.

4. Wrong. In a realistic game butchering a cow would require a good bit of skill to not ruin the meat and hide. In an authentic game butchering a cow requires approriate tools and results in appropriate in game items.

 

1. Just because it's a game doesn't mean it can't be as realistic as possible, it still tries to be realistic or else we'd just have health packs and ammo everywhere, there are merely limitations to what a game can achieve.

 

2. That's just how science and our understanding of the world works, go back to school everything they're taught will be different to what you learned or if you are still in school check back in 20 years, this is why most parents seem dumb about their kids studies because it's different.

Our knowledge of everything changes with time, nothing we call "impossible" is until proven otherwise, we don't have the technology to prove otherwise much like we can't have definitive proof God doesn't exist(not that I believe in any)

 

3. Still trying to be realistic. They can't be fully realistic but it takes qualities of real life and incorporates them in to the game, it's not trying to be 100% realistic, it can't be but it's trying to be as real-life like as it can be much like a simulator.

 

4. Not wrong that's simply the limitations of the game, of every game they couldn't incorporate "butcher and skin every animal ever simulator 2014" in to the game. That's exactly the same as how you can use every gun and weapon in the game without issue minus the bugs.

Unless they add some kind of activity(which would lead you open to attack) to skin and quarter each animal it has to be like that and such an activity is most likely something not possible for the games engine.

That you have to skin them and not just hack them with an axe and instantly have some steak is a realistic feature, just limitedly realistic.

[svisketyggeren 662]

Well Rocket did explain what he considered to be the difference between realism and authenticity, and his preference for the latter at GDC last year. You can listen to his talk here.

 

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/24zwgvv02xf4i2p/GDC13-DesigningDayZ.mp3

 

 

 

Also this interview with Bikeman:

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/138121-bikeman-june-2013-interviewlivestream-with-rocket/

 

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

I completely agree, however, the issue is balancing what is still fun for gameplay, and what is still challenging at the same time. I am not for an "easy mode". I think it's ridiculous as well that I can run for extended distances, but I don't want my player to be "realistic" in the sense that he has to stop, put his hand up to the camera (or whatever) and tell me intermittently between pants that he needs a minute, sits down, drinks some water, takes his shoes off and rubs his feet, then takes a nap.

 

See what I'm saying? lol :D

 

 

just wait till u have to stop to take a poo in the middle of a firefight or a Zombie battle..

 

/facepalm

[mercules 1290]

1. Just because it's a game doesn't mean it can't be as realistic as possible, it still tries to be realistic or else we'd just have health packs and ammo everywhere, there are merely limitations to what a game can achieve.

I don't think you get that "realistic" and "authentic" have different meanings. They are similar but there are subtle differences between them they are not synonymous. "Authentic" means "true", "pure", "credible", and "accurate". "Realistic" means: "real", "rational", "unfantastic", and "reasonable".

Stop trying to make two words that are different equate, it doesn't work that way.

2. That's just how science and our understanding of the world works, go back to school everything they're taught will be different to what you learned or if you are still in school check back in 20 years, this is why most parents seem dumb about their kids studies because it's different.

Our knowledge of everything changes with time, nothing we call "impossible" is until proven otherwise, we don't have the technology to prove otherwise much like we can't have definitive proof God doesn't exist(not that I believe in any)

Most parents are dumb about their kids studies because the average person doesn't read a full book after college, not one. The parents then lose all their accumulated knowledge and are under the impression things are different. Some techniques change, but things are still the same. Utilizing graphing solutions to Calculus doesn't mean that "science" changed. Light as a constant doesn't change. The scientific method is any different than it was 50 years ago. There are certain "facts" that have become facts because they have been tested and found true so many times that there is very little doubt that that is how they work. Fact: If you do not take in liquids you will die of dehydration. Fact: Objects dropped will accelerate at 9 meters per second squared. Fact: the speed of sound at sea level is 340.29 meters per second.

 

3. Still trying to be realistic. They can't be fully realistic but it takes qualities of real life and incorporates them in to the game, it's not trying to be 100% realistic, it can't be but it's trying to be as real-life like as it can be much like a simulator.

See comment about you not understanding two English words and how they are different.

 

4. Not wrong that's simply the limitations of the game, of every game they couldn't incorporate "butcher and skin every animal ever simulator 2014" in to the game. That's exactly the same as how you can use every gun and weapon in the game without issue minus the bugs.

Unless they add some kind of activity(which would lead you open to attack) to skin and quarter each animal it has to be like that and such an activity is most likely something not possible for the games engine.

That you have to skin them and not just hack them with an axe and instantly have some steak is a realistic feature, just limitedly realistic.

See answers to 1. and 3.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I don't think you get that "realistic" and "authentic" have different meanings. They are similar but there are subtle differences between them they are not synonymous. "Authentic" means "true", "pure", "credible", and "accurate". "Realistic" means: "real", "rational", "unfantastic", and "reasonable".

Stop trying to make two words that are different equate, it doesn't work that way.

Most parents are dumb about their kids studies because the average person doesn't read a full book after college, not one. The parents then lose all their accumulated knowledge and are under the impression things are different. Some techniques change, but things are still the same. Utilizing graphing solutions to Calculus doesn't mean that "science" changed. Light as a constant doesn't change. The scientific method is any different than it was 50 years ago. There are certain "facts" that have become facts because they have been tested and found true so many times that there is very little doubt that that is how they work. Fact: If you do not take in liquids you will die of dehydration. Fact: Objects dropped will accelerate at 9 meters per second squared. Fact: the speed of sound at sea level is 340.29 meters per second.

 

See comment about you not understanding two English words and how they are different.

 

See answers to 1. and 3.

 

 

Try the second definition of the word, being realistic as a person is completely different from something being realistic.

Realism in a game has nothing to do with being a realist. A thing being realistic is having qualities similar to real life, just as something authentic has qualities similar to the real thing, in this case, real life.

 

They do equate, their definitions are slightly different but they come to the same point and not nearly as different as people decide they are, not when it's a game trying to implement realistic features in an authentic manner or making authentic features as realistic as possible.

The words are interchangeable, because they mean the same thing when it comes down to this game.

 

 

Fact: If you do not take in liquids you will die of dehydration. Fact: Objects dropped will accelerate at 9 meters per second squared. Fact: the speed of sound at sea level is 340.29 meters per second.

 

Until we figure out that it's something different from dehydration we don't understand. Until we get better equipment to measure it which finds it to be 340.30 meters per second or 340.2999934847 same with the speed of falling.

"facts" change very frequently.

 

It's not really something you can disprove our understanding of everything changes over time, once it was fact that God created Earth 5000 years ago. Absolute fact and yet today it's obviously not, there are trees older than that.

 

 

Anyway, in relation to this game and the things people try to separate with the words, authentic and realistic are exactly the same.

[mercules 1290]

The words are interchangeable, because they mean the same thing when it comes down to this game.

Gee.... according to the guy who is making the game... no... they... don't. :)

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

Came here expecting people debating on realism.

 

Get to see the same old cynical idiots complaining about the game. Go back to your rage thread, we're here to have a civilized conversation and you just fuck everything up...

[dallas 5195]

http://wareh.wikia.com/wiki/Realism_vs_Authenticity

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Gee.... according to the guy who is making the game... no... they... don't. :)

 

Gee, I didn't know he created the English language too, talented guy.

[mercules 1290]

Gee, I didn't know he created the English language too, talented guy.

 

He didn't, I've pointed out how the two words have very different meanings despite your insistence otherwise. "No in this case they mean the same." except they don't and never did. Which is why people are not using them to mean the same thing. People like Dean. It's not our fault you can't grasp that concept.

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

SmashT just smashed this topic. Smashing work!

[Jamz 253]

Look at it this way:

 

Realism - simulation of reality.

 

Authenticity - simulation of the perception of reality.

[Helix2000 128]

or "not sure if anyone has asked, but when are cars and base building coming into the game."

soon...

 

http://www.dayztv.com/video/dayz-car-textures-hatchback-model-leaked-dayz-standalone-news/