Craftable armor

[Evaris 61]

Wow didn't realize "Ye' olde smiths" had welders and such as early as the 4th century?

No seriously common made mail is just as resistant to old mail. It's efficient against melee and such, will deflect an arrow or two and stop a bite. No machines or smelt needed. Honestly "I find your lack of faith disturbing" it's just effective as "real" chainmail because it is chainmail. People often think chainmail is over armour and it's not nor was it it was used in conjunction with leather and other armours as added protection. My point is with a spool of metal and a pair of pliers anyone with the skill/will to craft a set of nail could do so and achieve decent protection against bites and melee attack. Obviously it's only as good as the material used and not designed to withstand repeated attack. It's not like I'm suggesting mithril(sp?) here

Early chainmail was riveted.  More modern versions like sharkmail are welded.  That is how the chains stay together from repeated attacks and lasted for more than just one battle, which is why just twisting the wires together isn't as effective - it's going to just fall apart after repeated attacks. 

 

generally speaking, what you are suggesting is analogues to stage chainmail. 

[Lithium1056 45]

Early chainmail was riveted. More modern versions like sharkmail are welded. That is how the chains stay together from repeated attacks and lasted for more than just one battle, which is why just twisting the wires together isn't as effective - it's going to just fall apart after repeated attacks.

generally speaking, what you are suggesting is analogues to stage chainmail.

Either I'm misunderstanding your use of the word riveted or you're using wrong.

Mail was constructed with simple interwoven rings that were pressed together, and was generally worn under other armours, when why I am talking about is constructed properly it does infact withstand repeated attack. Ok assuming you've not worked with chainmail so I'm not holding it against you

[Evaris 61]

Either I'm misunderstanding your use of the word riveted or you're using wrong.

Mail was constructed with simple interwoven rings that were pressed together, and was generally worn under other armours, when why I am talking about is constructed properly it does infact withstand repeated attack. Ok assuming you've not worked with chainmail so I'm not holding it against you

I've not worked with it, but I've had a friend make me a chain shirt, plus I watch a lot of documentaries. 

 

To simply one website: "Chainmail was the earliest form of metal armour and was probably invented before the 5th century by the ancient Celts. The name mail comes from the French word "maille" which is derived from the Latin "macula" meaning "mesh of a net". The armour itself involved the linking of iron or steel rings, the ends of which were either pressed together, welded or riveted."

http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/chainmaille_history.htm

Keeping in mind most quality pieces of armor which held up for more than one battle i.e. held up against actual combat, were of the welded or riveted variety. 

 

Here is an example of 15th century riveted chainmail:

and a 17th century example:

 

 

 

Regardless, Ring and possibly scale armor would be easier to make in a post-apocalyptic setting. 

Edited July 23, 2014 by Evaris

[Evaris 61]

So sorry for the double-post, but I'm noticing the poll votes for "no, I don't want any of this to be in-game."  yet there hasn't been a single comment yet as to why any of those people wouldn't want to be able to craft armor.

[BeefBacon 1185]

Rugby armour, eh? I think you'll find that only the Yanks feel the need to wear latex leggings and plastic pauldrons when they play sports. I get what you mean, though. However, I doubt that many Chernarussians play American Football. Other ideas are neat, though. While I'm not too sure about leather armour from a deer pelt, I like the idea of using stove doors/ shovel heads/ metal plates in general as a simple chestplate. I wouldn't want to see pots and pans for helmets, though.

 

Also, chainmail, really? I'm not a master smith, but I imagine that making a hauberk would be more trouble than it'd be worth; especially since I doubt it'd be much good against a bullet.

Edited July 23, 2014 by BeefBacon

[Evaris 61]

Rugby armour, eh? I think you'll find that only the Yanks feel the need to wear latex leggings and plastic pauldrons when they play sports. I get what you mean, though. However, I doubt that many Chernarussians play American Football. Other ideas are neat, though. While I'm not too sure about leather armour from a deer pelt, I like the idea of using stove doors/ shovel heads/ metal plates in general as a simple chestplate. I wouldn't want to see pots and pans for helmets, though.

 

Also, chainmail, really? I'm not a master smith, but I imagine that making a hauberk would be more trouble than it'd be worth; especially since I doubt it'd be much good against a bullet.

Yeah, kinda why I suggested ringmail or scalemail instead.  They're both a hell of a lot easier to make and more suitable against the threats in game.  Heck, we could make Chinese-style paper scalemail from books and it would be somewhat bulletproof.

 

As for deer pelts - raw hide armor is something which existed for a good bit of history.  It's generally better than no armor at all, though you're not getting more than a shirt out of a single deer.  Though it makes a fair base for turning it into studded / ring / scalemail, depending on material availability. 

[General Zod 1114]

Rugby armour, eh? I think you'll find that only the Yanks feel the need to wear latex leggings and plastic pauldrons when they play sports.

[Lithium1056 45]

Yeah, kinda why I suggested ringmail or scalemail instead. They're both a hell of a lot easier to make and more suitable against the threats in game. Heck, we could make Chinese-style paper scalemail from books and it would be somewhat bulletproof.

As for deer pelts - raw hide armor is something which existed for a good bit of history. It's generally better than no armor at all, though you're not getting more than a shirt out of a single deer. Though it makes a fair base for turning it into studded / ring / scalemail, depending on material availability.

There is very little historical data to back up ring armour, scale armour is actually harder to produce than chain though offers better melee protection than mail, it would offer as much ballistic protection as mail (ie: 0)

Also while the overall concept of craftable armours is fine, I just do see it fairing well with the overall community. It's one of those things that could clog up resources as well as take up loot spawns. And falls below protection levels of armours already confirmed (stab vest, ballistic vest etc.).

I'm for the idea just don't see it getting implemented pre-launch.

[Evaris 61]

There is very little historical data to back up ring armour, scale armour is actually harder to produce than chain though offers better melee protection than mail, it would offer as much ballistic protection as mail (ie: 0)

Also while the overall concept of craftable armours is fine, I just do see it fairing well with the overall community. It's one of those things that could clog up resources as well as take up loot spawns. And falls below protection levels of armours already confirmed (stab vest, ballistic vest etc.).

I'm for the idea just don't see it getting implemented pre-launch.

I'd say they're easier to make than chain given the setting, simply due to the fact that ring and scale mail are less time consuming to make, not for how complicated of a process they are. 

 

As for ballistic protection, actually they would give some, albeit minimal.  Scale being superior to chain in this simply due to the size of bullets, though at best it would protect against .22LR rounds.  At the same time, 10-20 layers of cotton can also stop a .22LR round, depending on range and gun in question, so... yeah. 

 

As far as the crafted armor is concerned, they shouldn't take up more than 1-3 additional loot spawns.  (nails [which will probably be added by barricading anyhow], sheet metal [which could be used for craftable weapons and could be limited to using a tool to collect anyhow.], sports equipment (if that's a thing.), and [maybe] shower curtain rings if they wanted to run with the ringmail idea.)  With that said, once we see greater numbers of zombies later on, and ammo is more scarce, then armor of some sort will become more important for some playstyles, as well as those caught off guard. 

[Lithium1056 45]

I'd say they're easier to make than chain given the setting, simply due to the fact that ring and scale mail are less time consuming to make, not for how complicated of a process they are.

As for ballistic protection, actually they would give some, albeit minimal. Scale being superior to chain in this simply due to the size of bullets, though at best it would protect against .22LR rounds. At the same time, 10-20 layers of cotton can also stop a .22LR round, depending on range and gun in question, so... yeah.

As far as the crafted armor is concerned, they shouldn't take up more than 1-3 additional loot spawns. (nails [which will probably be added by barricading anyhow], sheet metal [which could be used for craftable weapons and could be limited to using a tool to collect anyhow.], sports equipment (if that's a thing.), and [maybe] shower curtain rings if they wanted to run with the ringmail idea.) With that said, once we see greater numbers of zombies later on, and ammo is more scarce, then armor of some sort will become more important for some playstyles, as well as those caught off guard.

Indeed although ring armor is a theoretical concept, with no historical data to back it up I'd rather see Scale than nothing if implemented. Just kind of feel like far to many people would be running around with cast iron "riot shields".

I can see where ring armour would be semi efficient against melee, just not against much else.

[Evaris 61]

Indeed although ring armor is a theoretical concept, with no historical data to back it up I'd rather see Scale than nothing if implemented. Just kind of feel like far to many people would be running around with cast iron "riot shields".

I can see where ring armour would be semi efficient against melee, just not against much else.

So I guess we should agree on the scale being the most plausible of the three to be used effectively in this scenario? 

 

Anyhow, so long as later on characters are slowed by weight (which I'm sure they will be) then I doubt we'd see many people with cast iron riot shields.  I can see them being used as a replacement for a ballistic plate in a plate carrier, but outside of that they're just to heavy to be carried for an extended period of time in an arm.  And even on the chest they would slow you down. 

 

Regardless, sheet metal from car doors is probably our best bet for sheet metal as well, now that I think about things.  It would use pre-existing art assets, require a tool to collect, and historically they could stop handgun bullets - the .357 magnum round was adopted by the FBI due to gangsters defeating police pistols with nothing but a car door as cover or a thick silk vest as armor. 

Edited July 23, 2014 by Evaris

[Darke (DayZ) 7]

No, armor in this setting doesnt make much sense as survivors are immune. Any armor that is possible  to construct is absolutely ineffective against bullets, therefor overall efficiency of armor would be minimal. It would just mean more items and more work for graphic designers that are overhelmed at this very moment. Armor doesnt add anything to gameplay for quite a high cost, NO.

[General Zod 1114]

No, armor in this setting doesnt make much sense as survivors are immune. Any armor that is possible  to construct is absolutely ineffective against bullets, therefor overall efficiency of armor would be minimal. It would just mean more items and more work for graphic designers that are overhelmed at this very moment. Armor doesnt add anything to gameplay for quite a high cost, NO.

In all honesty I would devote a lot of time to get full knight armour a sword and run around the coast. 

[Evaris 61]

No, armor in this setting doesnt make much sense as survivors are immune. Any armor that is possible  to construct is absolutely ineffective against bullets, therefor overall efficiency of armor would be minimal. It would just mean more items and more work for graphic designers that are overhelmed at this very moment. Armor doesnt add anything to gameplay for quite a high cost, NO.

1.  Why not, just because the survivors are immune does not keep the zombies from attacking them.  Once zombies come in larger numbers, the threat they pose, and thus the effectiveness of armor, increases.  And there are some armors on the list of the OP which would be effective against bullets, as a point of note in the next section.

 

2.  Umm no, actually it's not hard to construct armor effective against bullets.  Again the cast iron door, and the steel armor I discussed in the first thread would be effective against most all pistol threats, and .22LR rifles.  Scale mail taken from a car door would also be effective against lighter pistol rounds.  (.22 LR, .380 ACP) and likely reduce internal trauma from medium pistol rounds.  (9mm, .45 ACP)   In fact the cast iron stove door might also shrug off light rifle rounds.  (.357 magnum, 5.56)

 

3.  How does armor not add anything to the gameplay?  Please explain.

 

 

 

 

In all honesty I would devote a lot of time to get full knight armour a sword and run around the coast. 

 

I have to say, that -would- be fun to do in a zombie apocalypse.  Just I'd also bring a rifle, an AR-15 or AK.  For the simple fact of being an armored knight with a well... you get the idea. All the lulz that would be had.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Evaris

[Darke (DayZ) 7]

2. make some research... and calculate weight..

 

Well, it is not going to happen anyway so I guess I dont need to worry about this.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Darke

[Evaris 61]

2. make some research... and calculate weight..

 

Well, it is not going to happen anyway so I guess I dont need to worry about this.

Research done, have an image of a 3.5kg example of what I suggest be able to be made which would provide protection of everything up to a .45 ACP round:

 

And the cast iron door.. well here's the general idea, a la back to the future. (estimated, 8-9kg.)

 

 

Also, it's up to the devs, not you or I, so you can't say with any certainty it can't happen, now can you?

Edited July 23, 2014 by Evaris

[General Zod 1114]

@up

Sure it will stop the bullet, it will also transfer all the kinetic energy to your body, might not break ribs, but few shots will make your organs scream for help. 

Edited July 23, 2014 by General Zod

[Evaris 61]

@up

Sure it will stop the bullet, it will also transfer all the kinetic energy to your body, might not break ribs, but few shots will make your organs scream for help. 

Better than the bullet tearing through said organs I would think.  Which is really the whole point to body armor - you can be knocked out by the projectiles with repeated hits or a large enough one, and you might break ribs if you're unlucky.  but at least you're a bit more likely to be able to return fire and/or come out of the situation alive.  

 

Also to keep in mind, the more mass to the armor, the slower force is applied to your body, and thus the less severe damage you'll take internally.  

[Lithium1056 45]

I think it's important to note as well, that this would sacrifice your vest/coat slot unlike modern armor options

[Evaris 61]

I think it's important to note as well, that this would sacrifice your vest/coat slot unlike modern armor options

which removes any fear of imbalance or removing loot progression.  

[Lithium1056 45]

which removes any fear of imbalance or removing loot progression.

Not any fear but most of them. None if these save for maybe the cast iron door should protect against multiple ballistic impacts however I wouldn't use any if this for PvP, that's what the ballistic armor already in the game is for.

As far as restricting movement scale is extremely restricting, and also why it's crafted in multiple sections but it's still extremely stiff. Any of this armor should effect multiple stats,

Dehydration: this stuff doesn't really breath (most scale was affixed to leather double hot!)

Storage: do I want full armor or just upper body? How much do I want to be able to carry?

Movement speed, it's heavy, add a pack and even heavier

FOV: head gear is going restrict your already restricted FOv (assuming you play FPP)

So even with all these options you have hard choices to make that's where the balance comes in,

[Evaris 61]

Not any fear but most of them. None if these save for maybe the cast iron door should protect against multiple ballistic impacts however I wouldn't use any if this for PvP, that's what the ballistic armor already in the game is for.

As far as restricting movement scale is extremely restricting, and also why it's crafted in multiple sections but it's still extremely stiff. Any of this armor should effect multiple stats,

Dehydration: this stuff doesn't really breath (most scale was affixed to leather double hot!)

Storage: do I want full armor or just upper body? How much do I want to be able to carry?

Movement speed, it's heavy, add a pack and even heavier

FOV: head gear is going restrict your already restricted FOv (assuming you play FPP)

So even with all these options you have hard choices to make that's where the balance comes in,

at the same time you gain drastically increased defense vs zombies for most of these.  On another note, the SN-42 based armor should be fine for multiple impacts as well, as should scale armor.  

 

pretty much the whole point are either interim solutions until you find regular ballistic vests / plate carriers + plates, or as specific anti-zombie armor for when we're dealing with hoards.

[Lithium1056 45]

Also I wanna add, rugby and football armor would be useless aside from American foot ball helmets maybe (but we already have motor bike helmets)

Not sure what they use in rugby but I imagine it's not a whole lot better. Cleats would be acceptable for hiking and stomping a mudhole in a zed, but we don't seem to have. Kicking animation,

Plus I mean not sure American football sees a lot of playtime in Russia, (although I'm all for exploration of things you wouldn't always find in a former soviet state that doesn't actually exist this may be pushing it) shin guards from Soccer though not a shabby idea they are designed to take a couple of harsh blows before breaking.

Time will tell

[Evaris 61]

Also I wanna add, rugby and football armor would be useless aside from American foot ball helmets maybe (but we already have motor bike helmets)

Not sure what they use in rugby but I imagine it's not a whole lot better. Cleats would be acceptable for hiking and stomping a mudhole in a zed, but we don't seem to have. Kicking animation,

Plus I mean not sure American football sees a lot of playtime in Russia, (although I'm all for exploration of things you wouldn't always find in a former soviet state that doesn't actually exist this may be pushing it) shin guards from Soccer though not a shabby idea they are designed to take a couple of harsh blows before breaking.

Time will tell

 

 

 

 

Well for something more world-wide-guaranteed, there's always motorcycle armor with kevlar jeans:

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/41986/i/leatt-body-protector-adventure?colorid=9&sizeid=111&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=Cj0KEQjwur2eBRDtvMS0gIuS-dYBEiQANBPMR1xsNpWEZ65cSL-GT6LCVNix7IhYEVh4wfOJz99ChL8aAgM08P8HAQ

http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/dainese-d1-kevlar-armor-ready-jeans

[harley001 315]

I think it could work but I don't want it going too far out.  Making bullet proof armor should be out of the question.  But making something to protect your face from a incoming sludge hammer should be possible.  It is a cool ideal but also its not really needed.  Plenty of armor already in the game.

 

Could be cool, but would be hard to implement and i doubt it would have much use since helmets are easy to find.  Still chest armor is a pain to get so I do like the ideal of a football uniform or a trench coat with some plates stuck in it.