Armed Helicopters Are NOT Overpowered

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I'd like to ask people who want them a question.

 

Why do you need them?

If you get to the point where you and your friends can run one you sure as hell have everything you need, guns, food, ammo, medical supplies and they last ages so why even bother with the helicopter? It doesn't take long to run from town to town at all and get supplies and you could never be playing so long without a server restart that you would actually need more food.

 

The only thing they're really useful for is finding and killing people, the ultimate tool for that.

 

Beyond that they're completely useless the time it takes you to find all the parts and fuel you probably could have run to the other side of the map anyway.

Cars are enough, helicopters are just ridiculous if the map was big to the point where it could take real life days to get to the other side maybe they'd be useful but it takes like half an hour to an hour, helicopters are a waste of time cars would shorten that to like 10-20 minutes.

 

So again, why do you need a helicopter? Not why do you want, why do you need.

TL;DR you don't.

 

 

"I would, as I did in the mod, to get where I needed to go, to kill who I needed to kill."

 

Lol, this should be encouraged why? Go play the mod or Battlefield or something then.

Edited June 25, 2014 by UltimateGentleman

[Jex 1104]

They add everything that helicopters can do. They add quick transport, they add CAS, they add looting strategies, they add interactive opportunities. I guess I should've been more straightforward in my previous post. Have you ever played Take on Helicopters? Did you know that DayZ's engine is a modified Take on Helicopters engine? Did you know that whenever helis were brought up to dean, he said that they were going to be not only complicated to fix, but complicated to use. Why would they not make it more complex when that is the drive of this entire game? Tents, Vehicles, AND helis would already be in the game if they were just going to be the same, if they weren't going to be revamped. everything is going to be more complex, and that is why we have to wait for it.

I haven't played ToH but I've played over 50 flight sims over the years and one thing decent flight sime require is a lot of processing power for the flight model. Without that you don't get the required flight dynamics with which to make your helicopters more difficult to fly. Dean can say what he wants but I don't see how he's going to fit in zombie AI AND Animal AI AND a complex flight model for one chopper per server.

Yes DayZ uses SOME of ToH and Arma3 engines and they're also redesigning the entire engine too remember - so what exactly can the engine do right now - not what the devs want it to do which is why they're stripping everything back and why bother putting in months of dev time to add in a complex flight model the 3 people can use?
Sorry I want a zombie survival sim, not a flight sim. I can go to Falcon, Enemy Engaged or Jane's Longbow 2 for that so I don't want dev time taken away from the core of the game for something most people won't use. This is why I don't think the SA is going to have a complex flight model, it doesn't warrant the time and effort they need to spend putting it in nor do I think they'll have the processing power for it.

"Who the fuck would bother with a helicopter in this situation unless they were leaving?"

I would, as I did in the mod, to get where I needed to go, to kill who I needed to kill.

As far as flight knowledge, I think that's where I draw the line. If I'm Joe Blow tourist to Russia, how the fuck do I know how to take apart an M4, AKM, fix up a car, use an IV bag, gut an animal, cook every type of animal on Chernarus, make a bow, fish with a stuck, and everything else you can do. Maybe YOU know how to do some of this stuff, I can promise you that the entire 2 miillion population of DayZ doesn't. If you're going to sit here and say, "Hmmm, let's only put things in this game that your average person would know how to do.", then you're stuck with TurnOnYourComputerStartDayzArgueOnForums Simulator 2014. DayZ is a game, it's an authentic game, but it's a game. It's built off a mil-sim and has diverse levels of complexity, but it's a game. ask the dev team, it's a game. Tell me how every survivor in Chernarus can do everything else before you tell me he can't fly a helicopter.

Yeah and imagine if your "character" only knew a couple of things? Oh look, a mechanic to stop KOS :)

"Who the fuck would bother with a helicopter in this situation unless they were leaving?"

I would, as I did in the mod, to get where I needed to go, to kill who I needed to kill.

No he means realistically. If you had access to a chooper in a real apocalypse you wouldn't be in cherno anymore as you would fly off to the desert island and beach babes... B) Edited June 27, 2014 by Inception.
Comments merged.

[RDogg 42]

I'd like to ask people who want them a question.

 

Why do you need them?

If you get to the point where you and your friends can run one you sure as hell have everything you need, guns, food, ammo, medical supplies and they last ages so why even bother with the helicopter? It doesn't take long to run from town to town at all and get supplies and you could never be playing so long without a server restart that you would actually need more food.

 

The only thing they're really useful for is finding and killing people, the ultimate tool for that.

 

Beyond that they're completely useless the time it takes you to find all the parts and fuel you probably could have run to the other side of the map anyway.

Cars are enough, helicopters are just ridiculous if the map was big to the point where it could take real life days to get to the other side maybe they'd be useful but it takes like half an hour to an hour, helicopters are a waste of time cars would shorten that to like 10-20 minutes.

 

So again, why do you need a helicopter? Not why do you want, why do you need.

TL;DR you don't.

 

 

"I would, as I did in the mod, to get where I needed to go, to kill who I needed to kill."

 

Lol, this should be encouraged why? Go play the mod or Battlefield or something then.

 

End game.

 

Simple as that. One helicopter per server, and make the spawn random, so it won't always spawn on restart, and obviously make the position random too. Can you imagine groups of people all trying to find it, locate the parts, fighting for the rights to own it.

 

.. Oh but wait.. People don't like PvP. Nevermind. 

 

Edit: By the time majority of people/groups are geared and have a ground vehicle, what else is there to do anyway? Same thing happened in the mod. Go round, kill people, continue gathering more gear. At least by adding a helicopter, it adds that end game. That thing to strive for. 

Edited June 25, 2014 by RDogg

[UltimateGentleman 355]

End game.

 

Simple as that. One helicopter per server, and make the spawn random, so it won't always spawn on restart, and obviously make the position random too. Can you imagine groups of people all trying to find it, locate the parts, fighting for the rights to own it.

 

.. Oh but wait.. People don't like PvP. Nevermind. 

 

But what's the point, what "end game" purpose does it serve?

 

There is no end game in this game except having a base and a helicopter would suck for that because everyone could see where you land and attack you...

It's just entirely pointless especially if your helicopter deletes after a server reset.

 

The only thing I'd like is if all the PVP lovers just stayed wherever it was and stopped shooting everyone on the coast then maybe people could enjoy the game while they play CoD up north.

[RDogg 42]

What purpose does eventually everyone having decent kit, having a vehicle.. Then what? Back to square one. We're back to rolling around the map, hunting other players for their gear, etc, etc..

 

By adding a helicopter it serves two purposes.

 

. Extends peoples objectives once they have gotten to that point of having decent gear.

. Once they have the helicopter, it gives them something to maintain, a responsibility.

 

Remember we're not talking DayZ mod choppers which were just bought in from ArmA II. The choppers that are added would be very hard to find parts for and would be used only when necessary. You bring up the point of "Well in that time you will have travelled the map twice over". That's not the point. It gives people something to do outside of being well geared heading up and down the map 'playing CoD' as you put it.

 

All the helicopter would do is extend the games longevity. It's not being added from a pure PvP perspective.

Edited June 25, 2014 by RDogg

[sloasdaylight 129]

This is a very good point.

So you don't want cars then either, yes?

Edited June 25, 2014 by sloasdaylight

[gibonez 3633]

So you don't want cars then either, yes?

 

Driving a car and maintaining one is not rocket science. Little kids could do it.

Besides cars would literally be everywhere when the world ends.

 

Almost everyone has a car and alot of people have more than one.

 

Helicopters are rare and more importantly they are a pain in the arse to fix, fly and maintain, something that would be dam right impractical and unrealistic for a group of survivors who are just scrapping by.

[iongaming33@aim.com 137]

No he means realistically. If you had access to a chooper in a real apocalypse you wouldn't be in cherno anymore as you would fly off to the desert island and beach babes... B)

I knew what he meant, and I'm all for the beach babes, but I was speaking more on the point I made at the end of that post. If they're in the game, (which they will be, unless something drastically changes the team's mind) people are going to use them.

[sloasdaylight 129]

But what's the point, what "end game" purpose does it serve?

There is no end game in this game except having a base and a helicopter would suck for that because everyone could see where you land and attack you...

It's just entirely pointless especially if your helicopter deletes after a server reset.

The only thing I'd like is if all the PVP lovers just stayed wherever it was and stopped shooting everyone on the coast then maybe people could enjoy the game while they play CoD up north.

Methinks you never learned how to use helicopters properly. Everyone knows if you're going to have a base with vehicles the LAST thing you do is put them right next to each other. Vehicles make noise (except for bicycles), and you don't want to attract everyone on the map to your location by having two whirling blades of super-sonic fury directing everyone to your location. Land your helicopter half a click or so away from your base, and hike back. Same with your cars, park them away from your main camp, so that if someone stumbles on them, they don't

A) have access to literally all of your stuff, to pick and choose what they need and want, and

2) can't run over and ruin your tents + all the stuff in them when they find your Gaz and have picked your base clean.

 

Driving a car and maintaining one is not rocket science. Little kids could do it.

http://youtu.be/TUayAGBTz94

Besides cars would literally be everywhere when the world ends.

Almost everyone has a car and alot of people have more than one.

Helicopters are rare and more importantly they are a pain in the arse to fix, fly and maintain, something that would be dam right impractical and unrealistic for a group of survivors who are just scrapping by.

All of that is true and I never said it wasn't. The argument being used against helicopters is that anyone who had one would use it to get the hell out of dodge. You can't tell me someone with a car wouldn't do the exact same thing.

 

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Merged.

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Edited June 27, 2014 by Inception.

[iongaming33@aim.com 137]

Besides cars would literally be everywhere when the world ends.

 

Almost everyone has a car and alot of people have more than one.

 

Helicopters are rare and more importantly they are a pain in the arse to fix, fly and maintain, something that would be dam right impractical and unrealistic for a group of survivors who are just scrapping by.

That's the point. They will hopefully be very rare, and a very huge pain in the arse to fix. It SHOULD be impractical for a scrappy group of unorganized survivors. This stuff should take a ton of effort, they should almost make it not worth fixing one. But if a group does decide to fix one, it should be hell to do it. It's endgame.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Remember we're not talking DayZ mod choppers which were just bought in from ArmA II. The choppers that are added would be very hard to find parts for and would be used only when necessary. You bring up the point of "Well in that time you will have travelled the map twice over". That's not the point. It gives people something to do outside of being well geared heading up and down the map 'playing CoD' as you put it.

 

All the helicopter would do is extend the games longevity. It's not being added from a pure PvP perspective.

 

Hunting is good enough for longevity.

 

I see what you're saying about giving people something to do but once they got it going they'd almost never use it for anything other than killing people.

Would you enjoy it if you spawned in servers as a fresh spawn and more often than not were being chased by people in helicopters? That's what they'd be used for 95% of the time maybe some people would take up a noble cause but given that most people in this game aren't very nice...it's not likely that anyone nice would bother with them.

 

If they added some new island with incredible things on it then it could be a good addition along with boats for others to get there, a fortified base thing people could take over and survive in.

 

But I doubt that's happening.

As I said cars are good enough for transport, people can race each other in those too it will be fun. Of course cars can be used to hunt people too but at least there's escape in the wilderness.

 

 

Methinks you never learned how to use helicopters properly. Everyone knows if you're going to have a base with vehicles the LAST thing you do is put them right next to each other. Vehicles make noise (except for bicycles), and you don't want to attract everyone on the map to your location by having two whirling blades of super-sonic fury directing everyone to your location. Land your helicopter half a click or so away from your base, and hike back. Same with your cars, park them away from your main camp, so that if someone stumbles on them, they don't

A) have access to literally all of your stuff, to pick and choose what they need and want, and 

2) can't run over and ruin your tents + all the stuff in them when they find your Gaz and have picked your base clean.

 

But they can just take the helicopter you worked for and it it's an attack helicopter just attack your base with it it's never going to be that hard to find.

[Agrefits 70]

... Same with your cars, park them away from your main camp, so that if someone stumbles on them...

except they have a chopper, then it doesn't matter anyways.... ;) Seriously.. choppers always had one single purpose in DayZ .. Find and loot all the player bases, do quick insertions to your dead corpse / pvp zone ... generally speaking.. having easy mode and advantage over anyone else.. and as if group players don't already have enough of an advantage, hell lets just give them a shit ton more.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Agrefits

[sloasdaylight 129]

But they can just take the helicopter you worked for and it it's an attack helicopter just attack your base with it it's never going to be that hard to find.

Sure they can, if they see where you landed it and can fly it without crashing it; so what? You can do the exact same thing. My clan jacked a helicopter from another clan on our server back in the mod days, and wiped their base out, completely. They never took the heli back, even though they were active on the server, and succeeded in raiding one of our stashes (we're pretty sure it was them, not positive though). The helo is an asset, and how effective it is depends solely on the people using it.

except they have a chopper, then it doesn't matter anyways.... ;)

Until you find it and destroy it or steal it.
 

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Merged.

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Edited June 27, 2014 by Inception.

[Agrefits 70]

Until you find it and destroy it or steal it.

which forces me to spend my time ( a shit load and ton of time)  into something i have absolutely no interest in.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Agrefits

[gibonez 3633]

All of that is true and I never said it wasn't. The argument being used against helicopters is that anyone who had one would use it to get the hell out of dodge. You can't tell me someone with a car wouldn't do the exact same thing.

 

Helicopters would be found in fields only to be left there to rust.

 

They require huge I mean huge amounts of jet fuel to fly.

Where can you realistically find this in game.

It is simply not realistic to have people flying in choppers especially if these are just regular people like so many seem to believe .

 

This is not considering all of the negative effects choppers would have on gameplay.

[RDogg 42]

Besides cars would literally be everywhere when the world ends.

 

Almost everyone has a car and alot of people have more than one.

 

This is Chernarus. A post-soviet state that relies a lot on agriculture. Ain't no New York or London. 

Edited June 25, 2014 by RDogg

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Sure they can, if they see where you landed it and can fly it without crashing it; so what? You can do the exact same thing. My clan jacked a helicopter from another clan on our server back in the mod days, and wiped their base out, completely. They never took the heli back, even though they were active on the server, and succeeded in raiding one of our stashes (we're pretty sure it was them, not positive though). The helo is an asset, and how effective it is depends solely on the people using it.

 

But again what's the point? This isn't a war game there are plenty of other games with attack helicopters people can play why cater to that mentality the game is a big enough deathmatch as it is.

 

Why get all the things for a helicopter when people can take it and destroy your base or just destroy the helicopter, all that time wasted and for what? You could go to a town faster and get some food? You could run there and get the food and waste no resources.

And with a car you waste only relatively common fuel.

 

Actually that's another thing, the fuel for helicopters would need to be in a specific place like a tank(which realistically could be blown up) people would just crowd round them and nobody would get a helicopter.

 

Or should we find a canister of helicopter fuel in some random garage? Makes no sense.

[RDogg 42]

Some of the points being made are, and no offense, a little ridiculous. Talk of specific fuel for helicopters? In reality yes, but this isn't reality and so things can be bent to fit the mold so to speak. I'm not saying let's make it unrealistic.

 

 

 

Or should we find a canister of helicopter fuel in some random garage? Makes no sense

 

Just like we find random weapons lying around in barns, shops, and houses everywhere. Surely all the weapons should be found at military bases? Again, DayZ SA wasn't made to be ultra-realistic. 

 

And I still feel like you are missing the point. You don't add choppers, people get gear, they get a car.. Let the 'Rolling round the map killing people senseless' games begin. Add a chopper, you give people an objective, a difficult one of that. You give people something to be responsible for. Something which when you have it running and you are maintaining it well, you get a real sense of reward. 

 

But.. I guess people herding cars and gear and not going out to find their end game and not getting involved in the game works.

Edited June 25, 2014 by RDogg

[pilgrim* 3513]

..//..

the possible personal negative outcomes

..//..

 

"the possible personal negative outcomes"

I like that phrase.. have you ever thought of running for president of somewhere ?

[gibonez 3633]

 

 

Again, DayZ SA wasn't made to be ultra-realistic. 

 

 

 

Ok but even if it was even trying to be even a tiny bit authentic just a tiny bit,  you would still not be seeing people flying helicopters.

 

Some people really under estimate the amount of man power , experience and finesse it takes to even get a helicopter running.

[sloasdaylight 129]

which forces me to spend my time ( a shit load and ton of time)  into something i have absolutely no interest in.

I fail to see your point. By that logic, getting killed should be removed from the game because it forces me to spend a lot of time doing something I don't enjoy doing, which is gearing up and re-equipping.

 

Helicopters would be found in fields only to be left there to rust.

 

They require huge I mean huge amounts of jet fuel to fly.

Where can you realistically find this in game.

It is simply not realistic to have people flying in choppers especially if these are just regular people like so many seem to believe .

 

This is not considering all of the negative effects choppers would have on gameplay.

You're ignoring the point I'm making, and at this point I don't know if you're doing it on purpose or not. The train of thought I was quoting and commenting on was that anyone who had a helo would use it to get the hell out of dodge (I even said as much in a direct response to you). Are you telling me that people who had a car, or people who made a car work properly would not do the same thing and use it to get the hell out of a zombie infested wasteland and try to get somewhere civilized instead of living in the woods, hunting deer/boar/rabbits for subsistence?

Besides that, there're plenty of things that the "regular people" of Chenarus do that "regular" people don't. Do you know how to land a cold barrel shot on a target 800m away, standing still or not? Do you know how to replace an entire engine in a car? Do you know to properly kill, gut, clean, and skin a deer? I'd wager most people playing this game, and most people in Chenarus wouldn't, yet we accept these things as stuff that's clearly easy to do and is essentially common knowledge.

 

But again what's the point? This isn't a war game there are plenty of other games with attack helicopters people can play why cater to that mentality the game is a big enough deathmatch as it is.

 

Why get all the things for a helicopter when people can take it and destroy your base or just destroy the helicopter, all that time wasted and for what? You could go to a town faster and get some food? You could run there and get the food and waste no resources.

And with a car you waste only relatively common fuel.

 

Actually that's another thing, the fuel for helicopters would need to be in a specific place like a tank(which realistically could be blown up) people would just crowd round them and nobody would get a helicopter.

 

Or should we find a canister of helicopter fuel in some random garage? Makes no sense.

The fuel stuff I agree with, I think it should be difficult to find, but then again, helicopters run ideally on a form of highly refined kerosene, so it's not ridiculous to think that it would be impossible to find some way to refine kerosene that could be found in game into what you needed. Besides, most forms of engines will run on flammable fuels, just not as well. So you could theoretically fuel a helo with gas, it would just cause wear on the engine and shorten its lifespan dramatically.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

How many people, besides the one special snowflake who happens to be a helicopter mechanic because it's the internet; i'm a rocket scientist btw, would be able to find a damaged helicopter, know what parts to look for and repair it without proper tools?  Let alone be able to even pilot the damn thing?  

[UltimateGentleman 355]

The fuel stuff I agree with, I think it should be difficult to find, but then again, helicopters run ideally on a form of highly refined kerosene, so it's not ridiculous to think that it would be impossible to find some way to refine kerosene that could be found in game into what you needed. Besides, most forms of engines will run on flammable fuels, just not as well. So you could theoretically fuel a helo with gas, it would just cause wear on the engine and shorten its lifespan dramatically.

 

Then what good are they, time consuming to get all the parts, difficult to maintain, easily stolen, difficult to fly, difficult to get, difficult to get and thus practice flying, don't last long with the wrong fuel, right fuel is hard to get.

 

Nothing about that sounds interesting or rewarding, I'll just make a base and be happy with hunting animals or people as most people should be satisfied with. That and have a car I can maybe spraypaint things on or booby trap and leave on the road.

 

There's never really a situation you need the kind of speed a helicopter gives to get somewhere. Unless there was an air drop or something but that's silly.

[RDogg 42]

 

 

 

Ok but even if it was even trying to be even a tiny bit authentic just a tiny bit,  you would still not be seeing people flying helicopters.

 

Some people really under estimate the amount of man power , experience and finesse it takes to even get a helicopter running.

 

 

Looks like there is some people flying around in a helicopter.. Guess The Walking Dead was one big sham. You don't see it for very long (As it crashes) but obviously the helicopter is being flown before the episode, given Rick is in a coma for a year or so?

 

I see where everyone is coming from but the exact same argument can be made for the DayZ mod. And I don't remember people ever being so negative towards choppers on that, maybe because it was the only real end game? Suddenly a new engine, a new improved game and oh.. Better get rid of those helicopters.

 

 

 

How many people, besides the one special snowflake who happens to be a helicopter mechanic because it's the internet; i'm a rocket scientist btw, would be able to find a damaged helicopter, know what parts to look for and repair it without proper tools?  Let alone be able to even pilot the damn thing?  

 

I'm guessing you haven't played DayZ then? Because by your logic everyone is a expert in all forms of weaponry and a master survivalist. Oh, there goes that realism again..

[sloasdaylight 129]

How many people, besides the one special snowflake who happens to be a helicopter mechanic because it's the internet; i'm a rocket scientist btw, would be able to find a damaged helicopter, know what parts to look for and repair it without proper tools?  Let alone be able to even pilot the damn thing?  

How many people would be able to properly pull the engine block from a car, haul it back to another car, remove the engine from the first car, then install the new block, connect it properly (all the wiring + mechanical connections), and get it to run?