Armed Helicopters Are NOT Overpowered

[iongaming33@aim.com 137]

So, as we slowly approach Q4, the roadmap mark for helicopters, the discussion heats up. Are armed helicopter overpowered? I say no, definitely not. 

 

When many people argue against armed helis, they see DayZ Epoch, they see AH-1Z Cobras flying around, wrecking fresh spawns with the cannon, leveling entire city blocks with the rocket pods, experienced pilot-gunner teams taking out vehicles kilometers away with guided Hellfire missiles. Others envision what it was in the mod. You find a heli, slap 6-12 spare parts on it, and you got yourself a huey with unlimited ammo (ammo fills each restart). On the rare occasion you ran into a quality pilot and gunner that could effectively neutralize infantry with the M240s mounted on the side, your day was ruined. 

 

I see those points. The first is just a matter of comparing a mod like Epoch to the standalone, highly unlikely. Now, I wouldn't oppose Cobras existing in the DayZ universe to give me something to dream about, but I seriously doubt that we will see anything of the sort anytime in the foreseeable future. My vision of helicopters in DayZ is similar to how the mod was. Most helis you found were unarmed, but you could get lucky. 

 

Next let's talk about if they were even OP in the original mod. To this I also argue no. When it came time to take out a ground target, most pilots would hover, as their gunners could not effectively judge how much to lead, and take into account all of the variables that must be considered for air-to-ground fighting. Pilots would hover, snipers would snipe, and it would often be game over for the heli crew. Another common occurrence was a pilot flying fast to avoid ground fire, and the gunners spraying wildly, and why should they care, the thing spawns with 500 rounds each restart? What I'm saying is that even in the mod, it was pretty rare to see a pilot-gunner team that could effectively kill from the air. Gunners could spray as much ammo as they wanted. 

 

So, my argument is that armed helicopters would not be overpowered in SA if we took what we had in the ORIGINAL mod, and "DayZed" it.

 

First, you have the chances of finding a helicopter being very slim.

 

Second, you have what will probably be weeks if not months of looting to find ALL the parts required to get it running. We're talking endgame content here.

 

Third, you have the the Take On Helicopters flying mechanics, as that is what the engine was based off of originally. (Flying in ToH is VERY different than A2/A3)

 

Fourth, you have the rarity of an ARMED helicopter. I say armed meaning mounted M240s on a huey, or for you authenticity freaks, perhaps the Mi-17 military variant would be the common find around the militaristic state of Chernarus, armed with PKMs. 

 

Fifth, you can bet your ass these heli's won't spawn with ammo every restart, you'll have the challenge of finding ammo boxes for these weapons, and using it effectively.

 

Sixth, you have the extreme skill that it takes to have an effective pilot-gunner team, with the new flying mechanics.

 

So taking all of these into account, what do you think? Will it just be death from the sky? Or will the challenges outweigh the possible personal negative outcomes. 

Edited June 25, 2014 by Jigsaw115

[gibonez 3633]

Fingers are crossed that we never even need to worry about helicopters being overpowered or not because the devs decided not to include any.

 

that would be a godsend.

[rotteck 104]

Fingers are crossed that we never even need to worry about helicopters being overpowered or not because the devs decided not to include any.

 

that would be a godsend.

 

when did they ? and where ? can i have the source please ?

 

[Dchil 829]

Shacktac disagrees. Especially with a pilot as good as Dslycexi.

 

 

 

 

 

However OP doesn't mean it shouldn't be in.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Dchil

[iongaming33@aim.com 137]

Fingers are crossed that we never even need to worry about helicopters being overpowered or not because the devs decided not to include any.

 

that would be a godsend.

 

Ehh I'd definitely like to have them in the game as an endgame. What I'd like to see is all helis, armed and unarmed, being some of the rarest occurrences in DayZ. I'd love it if it were rare to spot a heli flying more than once a month. The first time I saw a heli in the mod was months after I started playing it, and it was amazing because they were so rare.  Just the fact that it flew over just me made me so happy. That's the kind of rare I'm talking about. 

[Karmaterror 982]

Indeed they are not. They are more of a burden after a while than land based vehicles. Fuelling them, repairing x amount of glass because someone had a go with an ak, leading people back to your camp, hard to hide, the list is huge when it comes to drawbacks of having a heli.

 

And as OP says its not easy firing from moving platform. I (only once) had a huey roll up on me as a freshy. Predictably they hit auto and rotated for the gunner....that gave me time to get behind a tree. 1st door gunner opens up....creaming all his ammo over about 30-45 seconds.

 

Heli pilot then spins it and lets the other have a go....he too wastes all his ammo. While its going down the one piece of the heli I can see (tail rot) is waving up and down as the inexperienced pilot tries to fight auto, instead of knocking it off and creeping or trying a quick pass or two.

 

The only people I can see thinking they are are the guys that never had one....they only saw them cruising round in the sky....some sort of angel of death. But the guys inside the heli know full well how exposed and vunearble they are.

[iongaming33@aim.com 137]

Shacktac disagrees. Especially with a pilot as good as Dslycexi.

 

 

 

 

 

However OP doesn't mean it shouldn't be in.

 

1. That isn't the type of armed heli we're talking about.

2. Point 6, finding a pilot, then a gunner, with the skill of Dslyecxi is even more rare than helis will be in this game.

3. That's A2. Not saying that Dslyexci couldn't do that in ToH, but the flying in SA would be much more difficult, from what I understand.  

[Jex 1104]

Epoch has Cobra's and THIS is the mod everyone wants to play??

 

This is fucking ridiculous. But wait, what am I thinking! Of course gunship helicopters would be flying in a zombie apocalypse!

 

No to helicopters full stop. They don't add anything to the game. "Oh we have a chopper......and we can get to places quicker!"

 

You can also view the whole map and see where everyone's shit is as well. No thanks - keep them out.

[Jex 1104]

1. That isn't the type of armed heli we're talking about.

2. Point 6, finding a pilot, then a gunner, with the skill of Dslyecxi is even more rare than helis will be in this game.

3. That's A2. Not saying that Dslyexci couldn't do that in ToH, but the flying in SA would be much more difficult, from what I understand.  

 

I seriously doubt flying will be much more difficult but you may have to press a few more buttons.

[Karmaterror 982]

Epoch has Cobra's and THIS is the mod everyone wants to play??

 

This is fucking ridiculous. But wait, what am I thinking! Of course gunship helicopters would be flying in a zombie apocalypse!

 

No to helicopters full stop. They don't add anything to the game. "Oh we have a chopper......and we can get to places quicker!"

 

You can also view the whole map and see where everyone's shit is as well. No thanks - keep them out.

 

Going places quickly, with the downside of being noisy and exposed sounds like a great endgame to me. Its just a "holy grail" item, something we can all strive for. 

 

Learn to camp smart man. Theres tonnes of ways to stop a heli seeing your stuff.....

 

Small white barn will fit UAZ SUV and pushbike + quad (bit of a squeeze and a 5-10 mins of "wiggling" them in. But then you have loads of item slots as a base that the heli cant see.

 

Pitch 3 tents....put some random junk in them....then make 3 stashes nearby.....decoy tents haven't failed me yet.

 

This is the type of thing it adds to the game...

tactics in camping,

another different sized different speed target,

a longer term goal for survivors, 

A choice....inexperienced pilot finds heli for first time....but just found an item hes been after for ages....risk it or not?

 

I remember a lot of people in the mod used to crash on takeoff, was hilarious when they would win the firefight only to crash the heli moments later. Now that was without the ToH controls that are a level above Armas. Guess Im saying that they killed a lot of people in the mod....and if the whole 7 day respawn that it used to be comes back, they will be such a rare sight :)

 

PS we aren't talking like 10 fully armed attack helis, just one armed one per server....if gets destroyed hela long wait for it to reappear so on....

[Jex 1104]

Going places quickly, with the downside of being noisy and exposed sounds like a great endgame to me. Its just a "holy grail" item, something we can all strive for. 

 

Learn to camp smart man. Theres tonnes of ways to stop a heli seeing your stuff.....

 

Small white barn will fit UAZ SUV and pushbike + quad (bit of a squeeze and a 5-10 mins of "wiggling" them in. But then you have loads of item slots as a base that the heli cant see.

 

Pitch 3 tents....put some random junk in them....then make 3 stashes nearby.....decoy tents haven't failed me yet.

 

This is the type of thing it adds to the game...

tactics in camping,

another different sized different speed target,

a longer term goal for survivors, 

A choice....inexperienced pilot finds heli for first time....but just found an item hes been after for ages....risk it or not?

 

I remember a lot of people in the mod used to crash on takeoff, was hilarious when they would win the firefight only to crash the heli moments later. Now that was without the ToH controls that are a level above Armas. Guess Im saying that they killed a lot of people in the mod....and if the whole 7 day respawn that it used to be comes back, they will be such a rare sight :)

 

PS we aren't talking like 10 fully armed attack helis, just one armed one per server....if gets destroyed hela long wait for it to reappear so on....

 

The issue there is people loot barns and will find your shit. Hiding tents in the wild is doable from the ground but impossible from the air - it's like forests don't exists from the sky.

[iongaming33@aim.com 137]

Epoch has Cobra's and THIS is the mod everyone wants to play??

 

This is fucking ridiculous. But wait, what am I thinking! Of course gunship helicopters would be flying in a zombie apocalypse!

 

No to helicopters full stop. They don't add anything to the game. "Oh we have a chopper......and we can get to places quicker!"

 

You can also view the whole map and see where everyone's shit is as well. No thanks - keep them out.

 

I seriously doubt flying will be much more difficult but you may have to press a few more buttons.

 

You say they have no use, then go on to tell me one of their many uses. Yes, they get you places faster. That's a great example. Like Karmaterror said, helicopters have their downsides, and learn to place your camp in a better location. I had a camp that lasted the entire first year of DayZ all the way through the scripter swarm. I placed my tents logically, and nobody found them. Constantly full pop server too. As for your comment on the difficulty of ToH flying, I recommend you go play the game yourself before making that kind of claim. 

Edited June 25, 2014 by Jigsaw115

[Jex 1104]

You say they have no use, then go on to tell me one of their many uses. Yes, they get you places faster. That's a great example. Like Karmaterror said, helicopters have their downsides, and learn to place your camp in a better location. I had a camp that lasted the entire first year of DayZ all the way through the scripter swarm. I placed my tents logically, and nobody found them. Constantly full pop server too. As for your comment on the difficulty of ToH flying, I recommend you go play the game yourself before making that kind of claim. 

 

I didn't say they had no use i said they don't add anything. As for flying, been playing flight sims for years and DayZ will never see the kind of flight modelling ToH has so, like I said, I doubt it's going to be much harder but may require more button presses.

[Karmaterror 982]

The issue there is people loot barns and will find your shit. Hiding tents in the wild is doable from the ground but impossible from the air - it's like forests don't exists from the sky.

 

Aint that why they added stashes though....remember those pics from dean way back when..."try and spot the stash in these screenies"....he was stood right in front of one and it was nearly invisible. That's why you only leave some basic loot in the tents, they only decoys, your good stuff is buried in the impossible to spot from the air stashes :)

 

With ya on the barns thing tho, that's failed me a couple of times....log in....DOH!

 

THB that's the main reason I don't see barricading for bases working. They gotta let us get through a boarded up window quickly with an axe.....a bricked up door....sledgehammer (takes less than a min to make a man sized hole in a wall if you are determined). So whos gonna put all that effort in to fully barricade a house when its so easy to get in and you have no concealment. Much rather have a well placed tent/stash. Its just as vunerable but benefits from having no lootable buildings near to draw players, and compared to a house its concealment factor is off the charts lol

 

Opps think I strayed off topic a bit there....yeah base counter for helis is stashes, cant see them from the ground let alone the air, or camp under a roof  :)

Edited June 25, 2014 by Karmaterror

[Agrefits 70]

if it's for me .. i vote no to choppers (doesn't matter if armed or not) .. just because, in my opinion it desn't fit into the gameplay.

No matter how hard the maintenance is, or how rare one will spawn, because any human being with brains, would use it to get the hell out of chernarus and try his/her luck flying somewhere far off, instead of wasting your precious fuel for circling an area you already know is doomed. 

It should be endgame, as you say. As soon as you fixed it and put it airborne, your screen should turn black with a message "Congratulations, you have escaped the apocalyse" ..

 

just a personal opinion.

 

Edited June 25, 2014 by Agrefits

[kakysas666 191]

Today I was looting balota in experimental when I heard armed heli approaching. It started the fire and wiped out my all squad. I was fast enough to log out in ATC tower before it landed and rushed me. Intense.

[Jex 1104]

Aint that why they added stashes though....remember those pics from dean way back when..."try and spot the stash in these screenies"....he was stood right in front of one and it was nearly invisible. That's why you only leave some basic loot in the tents, they only decoys, your good stuff is buried in the impossible to spot from the air stashes :)

 

With ya on the barns thing tho, that's failed me a couple of times....log in....DOH!

 

THB that's the main reason I don't see barricading for ases working. They gotta let us get through a boarded up window quickly with an axe.....a bricked up door....sledgehammer (takes less than a min to make a man sized hole in a wall if you are determined). So whos gonna put all that effort in to fully barricade a house when its so easy to get in and you have ) concealment. Much rather have a well placed tent/stash. Its just as vunerable but benefits from having no lootable buildings near to draw players, and compared to a house its concealment factor is off the charts lol

 

Opps think I strayed off topic a bit there....yeah base counter for helis is stashes, cant see them from the ground let alone the air, or camp under a roof  :)

 

Aren't they still making underground bases we can build? Tents would be better if they didn't use a shitty texture and made them the same colour as the earth or grass - at least then they would blend in a little but choppers in a zombie apocalypse? It borders on the realms of reality with just one per server. We should be having to eventually produce methanol and ethanol for fuel and regular maintenance of cars just to run them. How on earth are you meant to maintain a chopper?

[Jex 1104]

if it's for me .. i vote no to choppers (doesn't matter if armed or not) .. just because, in my opinion it don't fit into the gameplay. No matter how hard the maintenance is, or how rare one will spawn.. it just does not fit into the scenario. Because any human being with brains, would use it to get the hell out of chernarus and try his/her luck flying somewhere far off, probably all the way to russia,.. 

It should be endgame, as you say. As soon as you fixed it and put it airborne, your screen should turn black with a message "Congratulations, you have escaped the apocalyse" ..

 

just a personal opinion.

 

 

This is a very good point.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

It's not going to take weeks for people to server hop and get all the stuff they need nor would it be all that hard to find for a focused group.

 

No.

 

Cars are all we need who the fuck would bother with a helicopter in this situation unless they were leaving? Noise practically always attracts zombies if you landed anywhere but an island you'd be swarmed, it's just stupid to have them. As stupid as it is to have your character know how to fly them at all with no explanation.

[Jex 1104]

Today I was looting balota in experimental when I heard armed heli approaching. It started the fire and wiped out my all squad. I was fast enough to log out in ATC tower before it landed and rushed me. Intense.

 

This is utter bollocks, lol

[RDogg 42]

I'd like them to head in the direction that Origins did, only better done. What I mean is survivor made vehicles. I don't mean built from scratch. But maybe vehicles with stuff added to them i.e. Metal plating, mounted weapon. 

 

I do think helicopters still have their place in DayZ. One per server and not always having a chance of spawning on every restart. Say for example 1 out of every 10 restarts or just completely random. 

[comikz 218]

I personally have not played any of the Arma games, so the Standalone is pretty much it when it comes to my experiences...

I feel it would be "Interesting" to have Helicopters and such in game, so that you could have something to strive for as a "Endgame" goal, along with Bases and such of coarse.

What I am NOT wanting is for this game to be turned into some Air-assault Warfare simulator and there to be an over abundance of "Endgame" Vehicles and Rarity Items, that could be seen as "OP".

 

If the parts, ammo, fuel, ect. where VERY hard to come by and maintain it would seem feasible, however like I said, I don't want there to be too many per server, and I definitely don't want it to feel like my Squad/Clan stand no chance against one or whatever, because I would want it to be pretty equal in terms of ground/air superiority...

 

All and all, I am not against the idea, hopefully A LOT of thought and testing go into it prior to it being implemented for the player-base to use/test.

[iongaming33@aim.com 137]

I didn't say they had no use i said they don't add anything. As for flying, been playing flight sims for years and DayZ will never see the kind of flight modelling ToH has so, like I said, I doubt it's going to be much harder but may require more button presses.

 

They add everything that helicopters can do. They add quick transport, they add CAS, they add looting strategies, they add interactive opportunities. I guess I should've been more straightforward in my previous post. Have you ever played Take on Helicopters? Did you know that DayZ's engine is a modified Take on Helicopters engine? Did you know that whenever helis were brought up to dean, he said that they were going to be not only complicated to fix, but complicated to use. Why would they not make it more complex when that is the drive of this entire game? Tents, Vehicles, AND helis would already be in the game if they were just going to be the same, if they weren't going to be revamped. everything is going to be more complex, and that is why we have to wait for it.

[Jex 1104]

I personally have not played any of the Arma games, so the Standalone is pretty much it when it comes to my experiences...

I feel it would be "Interesting" to have Helicopters and such in game, so that you could have something to strive for as a "Endgame" goal, along with Bases and such of coarse.

What I am NOT wanting is for this game to be turned into some Air-assault Warfare simulator and there to be an over abundance of "Endgame" Vehicles and Rarity Items, that could be seen as "OP".

 

If the parts, ammo, fuel, ect. where VERY hard to come by and maintain it would seem feasible, however like I said, I don't want there to be too many per server, and I definitely don't want it to feel like my Squad/Clan stand no chance against one or whatever, because I would want it to be pretty equal in terms of ground/air superiority...

 

All and all, I am not against the idea, hopefully A LOT of thought and testing go into it prior to it being implemented for the player-base to use/test.

 

Wait till they open up modding for the SA which they'll do then there will be tanks and gunshit helicopters and barracks everywhere :(

[iongaming33@aim.com 137]

No.

 

Cars are all we need who the fuck would bother with a helicopter in this situation unless they were leaving? Noise practically always attracts zombies if you landed anywhere but an island you'd be swarmed, it's just stupid to have them. As stupid as it is to have your character know how to fly them at all with no explanation.

"Who the fuck would bother with a helicopter in this situation unless they were leaving?" 

 

I would, as I did in the mod, to get where I needed to go, to kill who I needed to kill.

 

As far as flight knowledge, I think that's where I draw the line. If I'm Joe Blow tourist to Russia, how the fuck do I know how to take apart an M4, AKM, fix up a car, use an IV bag, gut an animal, cook every type of animal on Chernarus, make a bow, fish with a stuck, and everything else you can do. Maybe YOU know how to do some of this stuff, I can promise you that the entire 2 miillion population of DayZ doesn't. If you're going to sit here and say, "Hmmm, let's only put things in this game that your average person would know how to do.", then you're stuck with TurnOnYourComputerStartDayzArgueOnForums Simulator 2014.  DayZ is a game, it's an authentic game, but it's a game. It's built off a mil-sim and has diverse levels of complexity, but it's a game. ask the dev team, it's a game. Tell me how every survivor in Chernarus can do everything else before you tell me he can't fly a helicopter.