"Safe" zones

[CJFlint 357]

There's a problem with your logic here -- if I build a whole city that's fenced in, the only way for zombies and players to 'get in' is to come through the fence, right?  Wrong.  Players can ghost in from other servers, and zombies can spawn wherever they please (based on the game devs).  I would be OK with safe zones being player created -- but the mechanics aren't there and from everything I've heard they aren't even planned.  There are two major ideas that would need to be implemented 1) anti ghosting and 2) zombie no-spawn areas.  Personally, I would also want these areas to generate NPCs based on the size and number of buildings... but I already talked about that somewhere in this thread.

 

As for labelling people heroes and bandits... well bro, if you rob people for supplies, you're a bandit, plain and simple (whether you murder them or not).  If you try to protect people by taking out bandits, you're coined a hero.  If you try to avoid all those crazy people in general, we call you a survivor... and if you kill people just for the fun of it, I will call you a psychopath.  You might not like labels, but they have roots.  You can start calling a car a jellarophantoluge all you want... but it's still a car to everyone else.

Ghosting is something that is an issue so agreed on that. They should fix or combat it more........What is a zombie no spawn area? You want no zombies move a away from populated areas, so it already exists....Not sure what you meant by that. Its an a game about apocalypes  DayZ should be dangerous every where, if you want safety get a group and hold down an area. 

 

There's no ethics mechanics in game. So really you survive one encounter at a time, one moment at a time and every one you deal with is different. Otherwise you just end up being one of those "Heros" who is all on his high horse, yet shots anyone he thinks is a bandit (which much of the time he dosn't even really know for sure) and then gets killed by the vary people hes trying to help LOL Same thing with ass hat bandits too preying on new spawns and new players, because its easy. Its a hypocracy and it limits the game. These terms are just spill off from the MOD were players really did get labels and a score card. But in the SA it doesn't exist. So I don't categorize random people I don't know and really cant tell other then what actions I see. If they decide to put it in the game then I will. Unless they clearly are in a clan that makes it really clear what they do.

 

Edited 

Edited July 16, 2014 by CJFlint

[mercules 1290]

Well with base building and blockading being added later down the roads, it would be possible for a large clan to create there own "Safe Zone" or base. This falls under base building. Also again there are "hero" clans out there that attempt to lock down areas to help fresh spawns and create there own safe zones.

We wish. It's been done and tried in the mod. The issue is that if the "clan/guild" is too large then they are basically securing the sight from themselves as they are the majority of the players on that server. If they are too small they have no hope of maintaining it except during certain active times. No one is going to log in for a shift from 2AM to 4 AM their time and stand guard duty to be certain no one breaks into their "Safe Zone".

 

Another thing that some of us need to get out of the habit of here on the forums, is people using the term "Hero" or "Bandit" to often when there is no mechanic for this in the SA. Then categorizing players and often demonizing so they can feel better about shooting other players. Each player is who he or she is on a case by case basis in the SA, unless they make it clear they are Hero or Bandit or there group makes it clear. Its a fucking ZOMBIE apoc, there is no more rules LOL After I played a while I noticed ethics is a case by case thing as well. Its all grey really....If that makes since. For realism sake I prefer it stays this way. I want even more chaos and pandemonium for Pete sakes!

 

The reason I say this is thread started of with the idea of creating safe zones for Bandits or Heros...well what the hell does that mean for the rest of us? Does this mean I have pick a side? I don't think it applies here, or want it to apply. Unless a player decides that's what he wants to call him or her self.

Actions lead to the words being applied to you. If I rob player X to him I'm a bandit. If I give player Y some antibiotics they needed to get healthy then to them I am a hero. I shoot players.. I just don't do it randomly. I consider myself hero as I am more likely to let someone pass by than to shoot them BUUUUUUUUT, I have shot people who were not aware of where I was simply because I judged their actions to likely be overtly hostile to me. I will happily help out other though.

I am this way in the mod as well. I had a vehicle I had found and someone in Side Chat mentioned breaking their legs again and not having any more painkillers. I offered to run some across the map to them knowing full well it could be a trick to ambush me. Hero, right? Same server I shot a little bird out of the sky unprovoked. Why? because a group with that much mobility is a genuine threat to everyone else on the server. Now they will have to fix it up again after it responds. I didn't bother killing the pilot. Bandit, right? So I get your point, but even so I lean more towards helpful than harmful.

 

 

Players can ghost in from other servers, and zombies can spawn wherever they please (based on the game devs).

I have a feeling their whole, "I want to have a barricade system." will go away or else the way the hive works will have to radically change.

[Rigor Mortis (DayZ) 141]

Your missing the whole point of dayz, it should be dangerous everywhere. If you want safety then learn to survive and make it your self.. ITS AN APOCALYPSE!!!!!  There isn't anymore order or rules. LOL You know you need to watch Mad Max Thunder Dome or The Road so you can get a clearer what the post apoc genre is all about LOL. It should be complete chaos, no safe zones unless you or who ever and your group can hold down an area. 

 

Not really sure why you quoted me on this one, but I'll be happy to respond.  I'm not for areas where you are 100% safe, and I'm not for areas where you can't shoot or be shot.... I'm just for areas where players can't magically spawn in with 4 of their fully geared friends and destroy your base from the inside out. I'm also for areas where zombies don't spawn because it wouldn't make sense for them to spawn there (i.e. fenced in and defended bases)

[Rigor Mortis (DayZ) 141]

I have a feeling their whole, "I want to have a barricade system." will go away or else the way the hive works will have to radically change.

 

I hope it doesn't go away.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Rigor Mortis

[mercules 1290]

You know you need to watch Mad Max Thunder Dome or The Road so you can get a clearer what the post apoc genre is all about LOL. It should be complete chaos, no safe zones unless you or who ever and your group can hold down an area.

Apparently you need to re-watch them. Three Mad Max movies, all about post apocalypse, all three have societies in them with rules, and heroes. 

Mad Max - he is a police officer forced into circumstances that bring him into a clash with a road gang. He protects people and lives by a code of honor.

Road Warrior - Despite being a hardass he again finds himself working with an organized society against The Humungus' gang. He fights for those weaker than him and aids them.

Mad Max:Beyond Thunderdome - Just the name tells the story. Barter town is a society with laws and trade. One of the features of Barter Town is the Thunderdome which is also partly it's legal forum and a way to settle disputes with combat. Max makes a deal to kill the Blaster part of Masterblaster so that Aunty Entity can run the town but stops at the last moment when he sees Blaster is simple minded. He has a heroic moral compass. He is then banished and ends up helping a group of abandoned children. He gets them free and away and they live a better life "beyond thunderdome" and it's barbaric ways. 

The Road - Father and son strike out on a journey to survive. Along the way they see just how horrible mankind can be. However because of their fear of that horror The Man dies and The Son almost dies because they are afraid of The Family at the end with the dog. Their jaded nature prevents the father from accepting help(they hide in the bunker instead) and almost stops the son from doing the same, but luckily he is still young enough to have some naivety and trust and so meets a family that welcomes him.

[mercules 1290]

I hope it doesn't go away.

 

I hope not, but the only way Epoch could do "Bases" or other secured structures was to make all of the servers private an not interconnected like the hive. I've come to actually prefer the system to the hive as I can have one type of character on server X and a different on Y. X might be geared up for PVP interaction and Y might be my laid back surviving character. I might have X on the West side of the map where my friends last logged out and only play X when they are around, and Y is over on the East side but moves all over because my friends don't have characters on that server I need to hang around.

[CJFlint 357]

Apparently you need to re-watch them. Three Mad Max movies, all about post apocalypse, all three have societies in them with rules, and heroes. 

Mad Max - he is a police officer forced into circumstances that bring him into a clash with a road gang. He protects people and lives by a code of honor.

Road Warrior - Despite being a hardass he again finds himself working with an organized society against The Humungus' gang. He fights for those weaker than him and aids them.

Mad Max:Beyond Thunderdome - Just the name tells the story. Barter town is a society with laws and trade. One of the features of Barter Town is the Thunderdome which is also partly it's legal forum and a way to settle disputes with combat. Max makes a deal to kill the Blaster part of Masterblaster so that Aunty Entity can run the town but stops at the last moment when he sees Blaster is simple minded. He has a heroic moral compass. He is then banished and ends up helping a group of abandoned children. He gets them free and away and they live a better life "beyond thunderdome" and it's barbaric ways. 

The Road - Father and son strike out on a journey to survive. Along the way they see just how horrible mankind can be. However because of their fear of that horror The Man dies and The Son almost dies because they are afraid of The Family at the end with the dog. Their jaded nature prevents the father from accepting help(they hide in the bunker instead) and almost stops the son from doing the same, but luckily he is still young enough to have some naivety and trust and so meets a family that welcomes him.

But that's what clans are for, they each have there own rules which is player created and that they as a group decide to live by. It is not shoved down our throats by a game mechanic. That's how I want it to stay. I complete game play freedom. For the same reason I don't want a safe zone as a game mechanic.  Just give us players tools what we need for base building and baracading and they can be responsible for there bases. I'm sorry but I really don't understand the concept of no zombie spawn areas. Really they only spawn in what once was populated areas......Right? So you could set up an area outside of town in the forest or something. ...or even inside a tech building or apartment above zombie agro.

 

But I really think the thing that sets DayZ apart from other games, is the fact that there is no score cards or vary vary limited rules if any and its the players that make DayZ what it is. I hope it it dosn't lose that. 

 

I 100% agree with both of you ghosting is highly exploited in DayZ and there should be anti ghosting in place. That is one concern we can all agree on.

 

Maybe later servers could have more settings other then hard core are regular. Were the person hosting could set how many zombies spawn, and different levels on different things. Not everyone likes to play the same way. 

Edited July 16, 2014 by CJFlint

[mercules 1290]

Really they only spawn in what once was populated areas......Right? So you could set up an area outside of town in the forest or something. ...

Right now the spawn points are only in populated areas. In the Epoch mod they spawn in the wilderness too and the Devs not only want zombies to spawn in the wilderness, but also want to have zombies randomly wander the map including zombie hordes doing so. 

Note, I am not for safe zones but I want to point out that at some time in the future there will likely be NO safe place from zombies.

[CJFlint 357]

Right now the spawn points are only in populated areas. In the Epoch mod they spawn in the wilderness too and the Devs not only want zombies to spawn in the wilderness, but also want to have zombies randomly wander the map including zombie hordes doing so. 

Note, I am not for safe zones but I want to point out that at some time in the future there will likely be NO safe place from zombies.

I saw a video about this too. I think the zombies are also going to be more realistic to, they will not be able to go through walls and able to go stairs. One of the cool things that the video showed is in the future you can lure zombies into a room and close the door sealing them in. So there is pros and cons to it.

 

Honestly I think if they are realistic, they just don't appear out of no where, able to run through walls....it maybe cool. Really I think I'll have to give it a try when the day when they add it and see weather I like it or not. It would cool if you could learn there behavor and learn ways to avoid zombies or even attract them. 

[a_ruttle 199]

Safe zone, you mean the main menu surely?

 

Edit to add, I don't normally go out of my way to kill 'peaceful' players, but if there was a safezone I'd spend all of my time on Dayz camping outside of it, because safe zones are weak.

Edited July 17, 2014 by a_ruttle

[Lithium1056 45]

Ok as far as bases go it's simple math. Player X crafts a foundation that foundation (once persistent storage is available, is hard coded to player x's player id.

Once said foundation is place the code forces all spawns outside of it's radius by 10 meters, this also works for four connected walls (provided they are built by the same player). I suppose you could allow player x to spawn inside but it's easier to force all spawn points outside.

Now player x builds his structure on his foundation, a door and a lock. Locks should all be combination locks to avoid "I lost my key" and having a structure that's just eating game space.

No player or zombies can spawn inside the structure but can spawn in it's vicinity. Problem solved.

The code ignores the parameters if say a large group "walls in" NWAF as it's "Public" space.

[King Raptor 191]

I would. Because that would make it far easier to hunt bandits. FUN FUN FUN!!

 

 

No. I didn't understand anything. Sorry :o(

 

What I'm trying to say is that safe zones are stupid 'cause they're all about forcing these little rules on people that are only to the benefit of those wanting to use said rules. Although if the game were to force 'm on me, I wouldn't mind it as much as when admins/cheaters do.

 

Anyhow; the fewer the laws, the happier the people.

[Poisson 2]

NOOOO no safe zone please . :) 

[11tw 106]

Safe zones which magically exclude Zeds would be a break from realism... this isn't a fantasy game. A barricaded area that spawns occasionally in towns though on the other hand, would be cool. What players did with it would be entirely up to them. These areas would have to be maintained by players, otherwise zeds can start to get in...

[alsmir 255]

1. Get some guns.

2. Find enterable building.

3. Cover entrances.

4. Congrats. You've created a safezone.

5. ???

6. Profit.

[angel_eyes42 8]

Having played Epoch (or Overpoch, whatever) for a few days now, I feel like I can elaborate on my "opinion" on this matter.

 

I hate the god-mode zones, mainly because if I'm running around in the woods and I am 1. dying, 2. being tailed by a player, or 3. in need of looking at my map or organizing my inventory, I am going to see if there is a trader or some other safe zone near me. Once I get there, I'm home free. I'm safe! And that's unrealistic, and stupid.

 

Also, today in fact, I witnessed some pretty shitty people who followed this guy (fresh spawn, just bought some guns) right outside of the god-mode zone and shot him the second he walked out. He had absolutely no chance. He couldn't do anything about it, but wait in the safe-zone for god knows how long until they decided to leave.

 

God-zones are stupid and unrealistic and lead to ass-holes being able to kill people super easily. I am all for traders in the game and "safe" zones that allow players, and, as suggested earlier, nerfed NPC's, to protect. But god-mode zones are a no-no, in my opinion. I am enjoying Epoch (or, again, Overpoch) immensely but the god-mode zones (along with traders apparently having infinite inventory and money) is kinda breaking the immersion factor for me.

[CJFlint 357]

As of right now in dayz sa current state, I vote no for safe zones. I think the devs are working on  base building, were a large say for example a "Hero" clan could set up decent base if they worked to together to hold off hostiles to help "Bambis" or survivors/ With that said this will have to be revisited in later builds. The reason I say this is we currently have no idea what the zombie situation will look like until will really play with the build and know what the final product to look like. So really I will have to see it for my self the decide 

 

So I have changed to lets wait and see, then decide if they are needed.

 

One thing I have learned from this thread and playing dayz for 100s of hours is the fact we need to address the "Ghosting" issue one way or the other, in order for bases to even mean anything. Currently pn a high pop currently a base would last as long as player could hold it, then there own team mates would start dieing. Then enemy clans could simply spawn in one there location when they are weak and destroy or take over the base. This needs to be looked into.

Edited July 18, 2014 by CJFlint

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

Ok as far as bases go it's simple math. Player X crafts a foundation that foundation (once persistent storage is available, is hard coded to player x's player id.

Once said foundation is place the code forces all spawns outside of it's radius by 10 meters, this also works for four connected walls (provided they are built by the same player). I suppose you could allow player x to spawn inside but it's easier to force all spawn points outside.

Now player x builds his structure on his foundation, a door and a lock. Locks should all be combination locks to avoid "I lost my key" and having a structure that's just eating game space.

No player or zombies can spawn inside the structure but can spawn in it's vicinity. Problem solved.

The code ignores the parameters if say a large group "walls in" NWAF as it's "Public" space.

Assuming that the devs are okay with the idea of having any sort of player bound logic in the game code, because so far there hasn't been any.

[Lithium1056 45]

Assuming that the devs are okay with the idea of having any sort of player bound logic in the game code, because so far there hasn't been any.

You're right this far there has not, and I suppose it doesn't have to be player bound, just a persistent structure. I've see all sorts of additions to the mod that can circumvent a lock (one being a chainsaw) so the lock is only as good as the door and relies solely on a player not bothering to knock it down and establish his own door. I also think the addition of safes would be handy like in epoch I think so even if your home is broken into you still have a chance your items (food stock pile etcetera) isn't swiped.

There have been a variety of things I've seen added to the mod that would be cool and plenty I just shake my head at. But it seems like the Devs intend to add over all favorites.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

You're right this far there has not, and I suppose it doesn't have to be player bound, just a persistent structure. I've see all sorts of additions to the mod that can circumvent a lock (one being a chainsaw) so the lock is only as good as the door and relies solely on a player not bothering to knock it down and establish his own door. I also think the addition of safes would be handy like in epoch I think so even if your home is broken into you still have a chance your items (food stock pile etcetera) isn't swiped.

There have been a variety of things I've seen added to the mod that would be cool and plenty I just shake my head at. But it seems like the Devs intend to add over all favorites.

I do like the idea of locks to be tied to actual (lootable) keys, if possible.

[crimsonbzd 247]

If the world went to shit and a zombie apocalypse broke out the community would probably try to create some kind of safe zone.

These safe zones don't spawn zombies in and only have food and medical spawns in and will either be bandit controlled or hero controlled. Pvp will not be turned off inside here.

In the centre there could be a radio tower which works which will allow the user to broadcast a message out to walkie talkies on a certain frequency. This will be used to let people know heroes are there or bandits could use it to bait people there.

Heroes can go there and take in people, give them shelter, heal them up and generally help them out.

Bandits can go there and spray down the heroes who try to achieve a safe zone.

It will give the game some purpose as they're may be huge hero v bandit battles (v v far fetched but its a game) to see who can control this area and it will allow more interaction between players and maybe future role play purposes.

It may end up as a massive bloodbath arena but its just a suggestion:)

this is possible now, and my hopes it stays exactly the same.

If you want to "control" an area, then take some guns and shoot anyone who challenges your control.

If you want to help people, control the area and offer help to anyone who walks inside.

If you want to kill them, then open fire.

But if you want some zoned out game-defined region where "zombies don't spawn" I just find that kind of ridiculous per the entire purpose of DayZ

[Lithium1056 45]

But if you want some zoned out game-defined region where "zombies don't spawn" I just find that kind of ridiculous per the entire purpose of DayZ

Yes and no. Zombies should never spawn inside a building that was cleared. And certainly not inside a building that a player built. There should in no way be a "safe from players" zone unless you build/barricade a house and lock yourself in. And even then players should be able to "break in" if they really want to.

Policing a area will be up to players yes. But I don't want to clear a building and hole up to mend wounds or wait out a rainstorm just to have Johnny Zed spawn in behind me.

[crimsonbzd 247]

Yes and no. Zombies should never spawn inside a building that was cleared. And certainly not inside a building that a player built. There should in no way be a "safe from players" zone unless you build/barricade a house and lock yourself in. And even then players should be able to "break in" if they really want to.

Policing a area will be up to players yes. But I don't want to clear a building and hole up to mend wounds or wait out a rainstorm just to have Johnny Zed spawn in behind me.

to be clear I meant "region" as an area larger than an individual structure. Zombies should definitely NOT spawn inside barricaded structures or fully player built structures.

[Lithium1056 45]

to be clear I meant "region" as an area larger than an individual structure. Zombies should definitely NOT spawn inside barricaded structures or fully player built structures.

Agreed, also I think I posted earlier about a simple fix to player built structures that would simply force spawn points to something like 10m from the wall(s) at least for zombies, players could still spawn inside and it also wouldn't apply to say walling in Elektro. It would have to be structures placed in the wilderness only. And for simplicity just force all spawns 10m out side of any structure. If you were to build "city walls" then played could still spawn inside the "no zed" bubble but not inside a roofed domicile. Or something to that effect.

Possibly even have structures bound to the builder so they could spawn inside their own homes idk

[way455 40]

I've never really liked this kind of idea.

 

If people actually tried using these there would just be KoSers camping everywhere outside of the zone.

 

If people are too scared to go there it would be dead.

That's the first thing I'd worry about if those existed. Without a safe way to ferry people out of there, you might as well call it the Ring of Death. If vehicles were in the game and you could get choppered to another town, great.