Trigger simulation and Sight Alignment

[gibonez 3633]

We are all well aware that there is alot of discussion about the current dispersion and accuracy game mechanic.

This is not about that this is about the discussion if it is feasible and or intelligent to incorporate some sort of Trigger and sight alignment system to more accurately represent the skill that shooting a gun requires.

 

First things first lets talk about the easier of the two to incorporate this would of course be Sight alignment. Anyone that has shot a gun before can tell you the hardest thing about shooting a  firearm is keeping your sights perfectly aligned yet in every single video game you hold your sights perfectly aligned with amazing stamina able to hold a firearm up perfectly aligned indefinitely.

 

Sight Alignment

 

This simple chart best demonstrates the effects of bad sight alignment and what results because of it.

Here is a GIF of how it could look in game.

 

This would be a good realistic gameplay mechanic that would raise the skill gap between skilled players and unskilled players even higher a good thing for gameplay and the longevity of the game. It would be a relatively easy thing to adopt into the game but as a result of this the dispersion mechanic would probably have to be removed.

 

 

Trigger Pull Simulation

 

Ok this is the suggestion that I need input on trigger simulation should be a factor in some shape or form it is quite silly to assume the player would have perfect trigger pulls even on instant snap shots. Yet every single trigger pull in game is assumed to be perfect shots. Some games like Project Reality a wonderful BF2 mod attempt to solve this problem by having a dispersion system that progressively decreases in size the longer you are aiming at a target.

 

This represents the patience and skill it requires to line up your sights and taking the time to perfectly squeeze the trigger.

This video does a good job of explaining the gun mechanics in Project reality.

Reason I like this approach so much is because it could do away with the dispersion mechanic completely and modeling the weapons accuracy would be far better.

For instance aiming at a target at 100y with the full duration of time it takes for the dispersion to decrease would result in the following results.

M4 = 2 inch groups after 6 seconds or so of aiming

akm = 3 inch groups

sks = 3 inch groups

 

 

One other way to simulate trigger pull is to incorporate a very tiny minimal delay between mouse click and the gun firing and this delay would vary between weapon and weapon.

 

Guns with heavy triggers with lots of travel and slack such as akms and bullpups = longer delays

Guns with low weight triggers such as hunting rifles, and marksman rifles = shorter delays

 

 

 

These are just some ways they can do away with the dispersion mechanic in a way that is closer to reality but what are some ways I missed that could realistically represent these 2 real life shooting mechanics in a way that creates depth to the gameplay and raises the skill gap.

Edited June 22, 2014 by gibonez

[hells high 676]

I've always been curious about this kind of thing being both an avid shooter and avid gamer. Though I don't agree with a lot of the things you say on these forums, I do agree that this would be an interesting mechanic to become standard in most higher end/skill level shooters. Its the implementation that nobody has quite nailed down yet.

 

The easiest being the PR system of waiting. Simple, and it gets the job done. While a more extreme and potentially clunky (which shooting a firearm really isn't) implementation would be to have your front post and to a large extent your rear post controlled by general mouse movement whilst aiming. Then you'd need a button (probably an extra mouse button) to kind of let the rear post take the lead for fine grain refinement. Letting go of it would put a soft lock on your rear post, allowing you to track your target with minimal rear post drift. If you moved too suddenly or shifted your body it would throw off your sights a little.

 

Its something I'd like to see one day, and I've considered experimenting with it myself.

 

I've always figured VR would obviously be the ultimate solution to this problem. Needing to align the sights not only using your hands but also needing and being able to align your head via head tracking. With projects like Control VR taking off, even scaling this tech back to simply hand tracking would be amazing for virtual experiences. Another thing that would be needed is some kind of analog trigger, one day maybe even a specialized mil sim one with the ability to calibrate the resistance to the real weapon's trigger pull. I took part in a sales program for the essentially now defunct Novint Falcon and received one for free and found the force feedback effects when firing a weapon to be awesome, so that could even make its way into the system. Maybe even as simply as an air powered recoiling device that you held like a firearm, negating the need to simulate dispersion aside from ballistically as the device would kick back your hands which are being tracked into the game.

[quantum2k6 348]

The Sight Alignment gif looks not really realistic, is his shoulder made from rubber or why the stock is swinging arround. i tryed it with my rifle, it looks not like that sure it swings a bit leftn right but not as in this gif.

 

hell u want really a delay between klick and the gunshot? cant imaging, that must feel like heavy lag... i smell the shitstorm if they realize such a system.

Edited June 22, 2014 by quantum2k6

[Hikurac 115]

I'm all for it. Seems like a great way to enhance combat. Also gives some incentive to practice with a variety of guns. Although the delay between clicking and shooting seems a little counter-intuitive.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Hikurac

[hells high 676]

hell u want really a delay between klick and the gunshot? cant imaging, that must feel like heavy lag... i smell the shitstorm if they realize such a system.

 

I'm not sure if you meant hell as in me or hell as in just cursing. :P Yeah no that's not a solution I'd go with. If you've ever played the later Battlefield games they have that kind of delay on the revolvers and its god awful.

[gibonez 3633]

I've always been curious about this kind of thing being both an avid shooter and avid gamer. Though I don't agree with a lot of the things you say on these forums, I do agree that this would be an interesting mechanic to become standard in most higher end/skill level shooters. Its the implementation that nobody has quite nailed down yet.

 

The easiest being the PR system of waiting. Simple, and it gets the job done. While a more extreme and potentially clunky (which shooting a firearm really isn't) implementation would be to have your front post and to a large extent your rear post controlled by general mouse movement whilst aiming. Then you'd need a button (probably an extra mouse button) to kind of let the rear post take the lead for fine grain refinement. Letting go of it would put a soft lock on your rear post, allowing you to track your target with minimal rear post drift. If you moved too suddenly or shifted your body it would throw off your sights a little.

 

 

Yea that is why I like the PR simple, it is easy to grasp and increases the skill gap. It also has a basis on reality. It would be a great enhancement to the game.

I think your idea on being able to independently control front and rear sight alignment on a gun is pretty interesting but I somehow can see it being hard to incorporate.

 

I however thought about when aiming down the sights it would be nice to manually raise the front post by using the scroll wheel on your mouse the benefit of this would be to allow for such things as "ghetto Red Dots" on weapons or so they are called. Basically you raise your front sight slightly and use that to aim at center mass on targets at close quarters its essentually a ghetto red dot sight and it allows for faster reaction time at close quarters where sight alignment is negligible.

 

sorta like this.

 

 

I've always figured VR would obviously be the ultimate solution to this problem. Needing to align the sights not only using your hands but also needing and being able to align your head via head tracking. With projects like Control VR taking off, even scaling this tech back to simply hand tracking would be amazing for virtual experiences. Another thing that would be needed is some kind of analog trigger, one day maybe even a specialized mil sim one with the ability to calibrate the resistance to the real weapon's trigger pull. I took part in a sales program for the essentially now defunct Novint Falcon and received one for free and found the force feedback effects when firing a weapon to be awesome, so that could even make its way into the system. Maybe even as simply as an air powered recoiling device that you held like a firearm, negating the need to simulate dispersion aside from ballistically as the device would kick back your hands which are being tracked into the game.

 

Yea thats a good 5 - 10 years away though but it will be glorious. I would like to see some innovation on the input front mouse and key board while fantastic is not completely ideal for First person shooters, the falcon was an amazing device that I wish were standard force feed back adds so much to games in every genre everything from racers, flight sims to shooters.

 

 

The Sight Alignment gif looks not really realistic, is his shoulder made from rubber or why the stock is swinging arround. i tryed it with my rifle, it looks not like that sure it swings a bit leftn right but not as in this gif.

 

 

 

It looks pretty accurate to me, although yes the contact point to the shoulder should be far more rigid and mostly the front sight should be what deviates as the gun is moved or what moves when arm fatigue sets in.

 

hell u want really a delay between klick and the gunshot? cant imaging, that must feel like heavy lag... i smell the shitstorm if they realize such a system.

 

I'm all for it. Seems like a great way to enhance combat. Also gives some incentive to practice with a variety of guns. Although the delay between clicking and shooting seems a little counter-intuitive.

 

It could work and would go a long way to separate the weapon classes in the game. It is above all a real life thing. The trick is to make the delay very faint so that it does not interfere with gameplay I am talking about mili seconds here.

 

Match rifles and precision rifles = no delay at all to represent their crisp triggers low weight triggers

Military rifles = some take up and gritty trigger so a minimal delay

Flintlock rifles , curio relics and military surplus rifles, double action revolvers = noticeable delay to represent their generally bad triggers that have been affected by time and or antiquated trigger

mechanism.

 

It would just need to be a game mechanic that is tweaked and tuned until it not only feels good in game but makes sense I am not talking about 1 second delays or more between click and shooting I am talking about  mili seconds.

 

 

I'm not sure if you meant hell as in me or hell as in just cursing. :P Yeah no that's not a solution I'd go with. If you've ever played the later Battlefield games they have that kind of delay on the revolvers and its god awful.

 

That was only because it was trying to simulate the double action of the revolvers and the delay was insane it was like over 1 second or something it felt terrible.

 

A less noticeable delay would work in game its just something that needs constant tweaking until it feels right.

[smoq2 221]

Although the idea is very interesting, I fear it is just going too deep into gun mechanics for the general crowd.

As much as I am against unrealistic calibres, I'm staying with the "this is not Arma" guys on this one.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for complexity and elaborate systems in any game. I just worry about other players, and since this is a multiplayer game, I want people I play with to like it too, which requires it not being overly complex to handle.

Edited June 22, 2014 by retro19

[gibonez 3633]

Although the idea is very interesting, I fear it is just going too deep into gun mechanics for the general crowd.

As much as I am against unrealistic calibres, I'm staying with the "this is not Arma" guys on this one.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for complexity and elaborate systems in any game. I just worry about other players, and since this is a multiplayer game, I want people I play with to like it too, which requires it not being overly complex to handle.

 

 

Deep gun mechanics would simply go over the head of the general crowd they will understand how they work on the surface and it will not affect their enjoyment at all.

 

Deep gun mechanics however have the benefit of increasing the enjoyment of the players who were going to stick with dayz not the casual player who buys dayz on a steam sale plays 20 minutes or never installs the game to begin with. These new mechanics would allow a player to grow in game to learn .

 

At the end the suggest new mechanics are not that hard to grasp and I personally see very little fear of it alienating any player new or experienced.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Deep gun mechanics would simply go over the head of the general crowd they will understand how they work on the surface and it will not affect their enjoyment at all.

 

Deep gun mechanics however have the benefit of increasing the enjoyment of the players who were going to stick with dayz not the casual player who buys dayz on a steam sale plays 20 minutes or never installs the game to begin with. These new mechanics would allow a player to grow in game to learn .

 

At the end the suggest new mechanics are not that hard to grasp and I personally see very little fear of it alienating any player new or experienced.

Over-complicating weapons systems is not the most practical way to get things done. If it gets to the point where something is just tedious and doesn't actually affect anything, then what's the point in having it?

It would be like having to unscrew and manually keep track of all of the little parts & screws while mounting an M68 CompM2 before also aligning it yourself and re-screwing them on individually. Sure, it might be more realistic, because attachments don't just prop themselves onto weapons, but would you really like to have to do that just to put an Aimpoint on your M4?

Or what about separating the guns into every single individual part, where everything matters and perfect maintenance is required. Instead of just changing out the stocks, handguards, and other attachments on something like the M4, you'd have to swap out;

stocks, handguards, pistol grips, lower & upper receivers, triggers, stock tubes, barrels, front sights, as well as all of the little parts that make them up (like sling ports, springs, screws, bolts, the tighteners on the carry handle, etc.)

And to top it off, you'd have to perform each action individually and with the correct tool (only with an AR tool can you take out the front sight in order to swap out your barrel, but you also need a specific 2x6 Phillips-Head screwdriver, because the other sizes are too large or small to fit).

 

Sounds like fun, right?

[Karmaterror 982]

Sight alignment yes, The gif one is maybe a little over the top, and it looks a bit like its the butt of the gun that's swinging out of line....shouldn't it be the barrel? But something like that would go great with wind/weather effecting shots aswell. I don't get why the guns don't just have realistic spread...by the time its finished making a shot with them as they are now + everything else will be hell lol.

 

The second part about trigger simulation got me thinking.. I used to play PR and I did love the mechanics of it. But that system seemed a little simplistic, something iv not really seen before in a game is it simulating you actually pulling the trigger. Don't know if it would work but maybe some system where to fire the gun you have to click hold and pull back...all very quickly ofc, just a little. Then depending on how smoothly you did it. it could effect the shot down range slightly. It could be used to simulate guns with "hair triggers" aswell. Some would go off with the smallest movement back, some would need a bit more of a "pull". Maybe its a bit much....but that's what jumped to mind :)

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

I do like the idea of a firing delay on double action revolvers, some of them have some seriously hard triggers, even if you cock the hammer.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Lady Kyrah

[gibonez 3633]

I do like the idea of a firing delay on double action revolvers, some of them have some seriously hard triggers, even if you cock the hammer.

 

If you ever fire a bullpup its pretty similar really long gritty crappy triggers on bullpups.

 

Over-complicating weapons systems is not the most practical way to get things done. If it gets to the point where something is just tedious and doesn't actually affect anything, then what's the point in having it?

It would be like having to unscrew and manually keep track of all of the little parts & screws while mounting an M68 CompM2 before also aligning it yourself and re-screwing them on individually. Sure, it might be more realistic, because attachments don't just prop themselves onto weapons, but would you really like to have to do that just to put an Aimpoint on your M4?

Or what about separating the guns into every single individual part, where everything matters and perfect maintenance is required. Instead of just changing out the stocks, handguards, and other attachments on something like the M4, you'd have to swap out;

stocks, handguards, pistol grips, lower & upper receivers, triggers, stock tubes, barrels, front sights, as well as all of the little parts that make them up (like sling ports, springs, screws, bolts, the tighteners on the carry handle, etc.)

And to top it off, you'd have to perform each action individually and with the correct tool (only with an AR tool can you take out the front sight in order to swap out your barrel, but you also need a specific 2x6 Phillips-Head screwdriver, because the other sizes are too large or small to fit).

 

 

 

Nothing in the  OP can be considered overly complicated or even intimidating. Having deeper and more complex shooting mechanics would indeed improve the game.

Even something like Project Reality shooting lite would be better compared to what we have now even a simple system where you aim for 2 full seconds before you achieve your guns mechanical accuracy would be better than the current rpg style shooting in game.

 

The accessory system is a whole topic all together.

 

 

Sounds like fun, right?

 

hmmm it does to me actually although I would not be opposed to simply needing a screw driver to attach the accessories.

 

 

Sight alignment yes, The gif one is maybe a little over the top, and it looks a bit like its the butt of the gun that's swinging out of line....shouldn't it be the barrel? But something like that would go great with wind/weather effecting shots aswell. I don't get why the guns don't just have realistic spread...by the time its finished making a shot with them as they are now + everything else will be hell lol.

 

The second part about trigger simulation got me thinking.. I used to play PR and I did love the mechanics of it. But that system seemed a little simplistic, something iv not really seen before in a game is it simulating you actually pulling the trigger. Don't know if it would work but maybe some system where to fire the gun you have to click hold and pull back...all very quickly ofc, just a little. Then depending on how smoothly you did it. it could effect the shot down range slightly. It could be used to simulate guns with "hair triggers" aswell. Some would go off with the smallest movement back, some would need a bit more of a "pull". Maybe its a bit much....but that's what jumped to mind :)

 

Yea in the gif it looks like the butt of the gun is indeed swinging out of the shoulder this would not usually happen when swinging the gun around but for strafing and sprinting this is reasonable.

The PR shooting system is relatively simple but that I think is its biggest benefit.

 

Everyone from a moron to a genius would grasp the concept of aiming your gun for a few seconds for maximum accuracy within a few minutes. The good thing is while easy to grasp it would take a long time to master and more importantly it would reward those that are patient and increase the skill gap between novice and good players.

 

Project reality shooting mechanics

+

Wind affecting bullets

+

Realistic elevation adjustments IE. Mrad or MOA scope adjustments

+

Deploy-able bipods and weapon resting on surfaces to control recoil and steady the weapon

=

Best possible shooting in Dayz

 

 

It would turn dayz from the dispersion random mess that it is today to a more responsive yet grounded in reality shooting game.

[darth_vaizard 42]

I love the idea of the sight alignment if it's incorporated correctly.  The amount of sway in that gif is just ludicrous.  

I do not, however, like the idea of the cones of fire decreasing as you aim.  Bullets go where you point the muzzle of the gun and only THEN are they subject to outside forces such as wind and gravity... no amount of aiming will make where they go more accurate.  Taking time to settle the sights and taking shots as you align the sights between shots would be far better and more realistic.  Shooting at the ranges in DayZ at the moment (50-200m max) is NOT that difficult.  Especially with high caliber firearms such as the AKM or Mosin.  That would be child's play for even the rustiest war veteran and I'm fairly sure that given enough practice, something that we already do with guns that get added in, an average Joe could make shots at upwards of 500m which in my honest opinion, is PLENTY for the average player.  

The best way to get the most realistic shooting mechanics in the game is to keep it simple.  Assume that all characters that are active in the game have the same level of proficiency with weapons, get the weapons themselves ironed out, and then leave things such as positioning, ability to allow sights to settle, and having control of the characters respiration so accurate shots can be made distinguish the skilled players from the bambies.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Darth_Vaizard

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

I love the idea of the sight alignment if it's incorporated correctly.  The amount of sway in that gif is just ludicrous.  

I do not, however, like the idea of the cones of fire decreasing as you aim.  Bullets go where you point the muzzle of the gun and only THEN are they subject to outside forces such as wind and gravity... no amount of aiming will make where they go more accurate.  Taking time to settle the sights and taking shots as you align the sights between shots would be far better and more realistic.  Shooting at the ranges in DayZ at the moment (50-200m max) is NOT that difficult.  Especially with high caliber firearms such as the AKM or Mosin.  That would be child's play for even the rustiest war veteran and I'm fairly sure that given enough practice, something that we already do with guns that get added in, an average Joe could make shots at upwards of 500m which in my honest opinion, is PLENTY for the average player.  

The best way to get the most realistic shooting mechanics in the game is to keep it simple.  Assume that all characters that are active in the game have the same level of proficiency with weapons, get the weapons themselves ironed out, and then leave things such as positioning, ability to allow sights to settle, and having control of the characters respiration so accurate shots can be made distinguish the skilled players from the bambies.

To me the cone tightening represent the time the shooter take to secure his gun grip, the difference between shooting right as you stop running, and getting that shot lined up as the gun is held firmly against your shoulder. Bullets go where you point as long as you hold your gun properly, otherwise, it just goes everywhere.

 

Plus cones reductions are server side and as an added benefit work directly against aimbots.

 

I'm sure that a wannabe rambo will contradict me tho.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Lady Kyrah

[pacpac 22]

this is a good idea and we'll never see it.

 

better post this to reddit if you want anyone DEV side to notice this

[blazinone 72]

This might be a good thing for Hardcore.

But a large portion of players I've seen (in game or in videos) fire from the hip anyway. They don't even aim down sight. It's more of a panic spray n pray. I personally only ADS about 75% of the time.

[Legio23 82]

Not a bad idea in itself but not really sure if it would take off, I think that I would find it more frustrating than anything else as it would annoy me as to the amount of fiddling around you'd have to do, extra keys involved etc.

On the otherhand the use of  long range scopes could be a little more complex and would not be as hard to do, such as breathing, wind speed and direction, elevation etc.

[gibonez 3633]

I do not, however, like the idea of the cones of fire decreasing as you aim.  Bullets go where you point the muzzle of the gun and only THEN are they subject to outside forces such as wind and gravity... no amount of aiming will make where they go more accurate.  Taking time to settle the sights and taking shots as you align the sights between shots would be far better and more realistic.  Shooting at the ranges in DayZ at the moment (50-200m max) is NOT that difficult.  Especially with high caliber firearms such as the AKM or Mosin.  That would be child's play for even the rustiest war veteran and I'm fairly sure that given enough practice, something that we already do with guns that get added in, an average Joe could make shots at upwards of 500m which in my honest opinion, is PLENTY for the average player.  

 

 

Making a 200m shot is not an easy feat for anyone experienced or not just because someone makes it look easy does not mean it is.

Making a 200m shot for instance requires the person have absolute sight alignment on a firearm good breath control and a perfect trigger squeeze.

 

This is in a sense what the project reality aiming system is trying to simulate , currently in game if there were no dispersion players have the ability to instantly snap shoot with perfect accuracy this is wrong on so many levels.

 

Also you are viewing the project reality cone tightening mechanic in the wrong way, its a system that gives the player more control as apposed to less with the current RNG gun dispersion.

 

 

The best way to get the most realistic shooting mechanics in the game is to keep it simple.  Assume that all characters that are active in the game have the same level of proficiency with weapons, get the weapons themselves ironed out, and then leave things such as positioning, ability to allow sights to settle, and having control of the characters respiration so accurate shots can be made distinguish the skilled players from the bambies.

 

The project reality is as simple as it can get. You aim, wait a few seconds for your sights to align correctly and fire. What project reality lacks that Dayz could implement to aid the player in is a visual representation of when it is the optimal time to fire. They can do this simply by having the gun sway and the sights missalign themselves until a few seconds later when the sights or optics are perfectly in line with the front of the gun and then the guns mechanical accuracy is on.

 

 

To me the cone tightening represent the time the shooter take to secure his gun grip, the difference between shooting right as you stop running, and getting that shot lined up as the gun is held firmly against your shoulder. Bullets go where you point as long as you hold your gun properly, otherwise, it just goes everywhere.

 

Plus cones reductions are server side and as an added benefit work directly against aimbots.

 

I'm sure that a wannabe rambo will contradict me tho.

 

Yup pretty much I see it as a way to give more control to the player and a way to have the game have less emphasis on RNG mechanics.

This system would also tighten up the gunplay in the game putting a bigger emphasis on steady stable shooting instead of strafing and hip shooting.

 

One other factor people must remember is trigger control is absolutely important when shooting a gun, the project reality system sorta simulates that simulates the time it takes to find that sweet spot on your guns trigger so that you do not pull, jerk etc the shot.

.

 

this is a good idea and we'll never see it.

 

better post this to reddit if you want anyone DEV side to notice this

 

The devs read the forums they just decide not to post here or post under different names.

I cannot say I blame them though, we can get a bit venomous in here myself included its something we gotta work on.

 

This might be a good thing for Hardcore.

But a large portion of players I've seen (in game or in videos) fire from the hip anyway. They don't even aim down sight. It's more of a panic spray n pray. I personally only ADS about 75% of the time.

 

This would be a good thing for the game itself not just hardcore.

 

Yea I am aware of a large portion of players shooting from the hip and this is imo a big problem. Being able to accurately hit targets out at distance with hip fire is really bad for gameplay hopefully they remove the crosshair zoom and incorporate a little more sway when hip shooting to make it trivial to shoot from the hip at a distance.

 

This is why this gun mechanic is so good I think.

 

It puts more of an emphasis on accurate , precise shooting from static positions something I would assume is important in a post apocalyptic environment where ammo is supossibly scarce.

 

 

Not a bad idea in itself but not really sure if it would take off, I think that I would find it more frustrating than anything else as it would annoy me as to the amount of fiddling around you'd have to do, extra keys involved etc.

On the otherhand the use of  long range scopes could be a little more complex and would not be as hard to do, such as breathing, wind speed and direction, elevation etc.

 

I see it as a means to reduce the frustration as it gives the player more control.

 

Right now as it stands when you fire a gun you have zero control of where the bullet will hit. You are literally rolling dice when you shoot and shooting someone at 200m might take 1 shot or it might take 5 shots before the RNG gods smile on you.

 

With the project reality system in place where your cone of dispersion decreases the more you aim you are essentially giving the player some method to combat the dispersion in a way that also happens to enrich the gameplay.

Such a system could also open up the potential for accesories to play a bigger role as some of them could affect the speed at which it takes to achieve a "perfect" shot.

 

A project reality system in a sense gives players control over where their shots are hitting.

[Legio23 82]

Dispertion should decrease with different stances, standing, kneeling, adapted or prone, whether the person is out of breath or not, physical conditions, adding sight alignement and trigger control will just complicate it. I've been shooting for many, many years now and, like many experienced shooters, it becomes instinctive and muscle memory.

But I do see what you're getting at.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Legio23

[gibonez 3633]

Dispertion should decrease with different stances, standing, kneeling, adapted or prone, whether the person is out of breath or not, physical conditions, adding sight alignement and trigger control will just complicate it. I've been shooting for many, many years now and, like many experienced shooters, it becomes instinctive and muscle memory.

But I do see what you're getting at.

 

See what you described is exactly what I envision with the project reality shooting system enhancing.

 

For example at different stances the starting dispersion could be vastly different thus it takes different times to achieve maximum mechanical accuracy depending on the firearm of course.

 

Lets take the m4 for example a weapon that give or take has a 2.5 inch spread at 100 yards when locked down onto a vice and secured.

 

Standing = Starting moa of 30 that takes a full 6 seconds to reach 2.5 moa at 100 yards.

Crouching = Starting moa of 20 takes 3 full seconds to reach 2.5 moa at 100 yards.

Prone = starting moa of 10 takes 1 second to reach 2.5 moa at 100 yards.

 

They can enhance this system even further by introducing arm fatigue so if you aim for say 12 seconds or more your sway begins to kick in more and more this is of course dependent on the stance you are in.

 

Deploying the bipod on a weapon on a surface or resting the gun on a surface would completely negate this and no sway or arm fatigue would be present when in this state.

 

 

Overall I just see this as a good way to get rid of the ridiculous +30 accuracy bipod + 20 accuracy magpul stock system that is in the game now.

 

It gives players back the control over their shot placement and at the same time it is a simple intuitive gameplay mechanic that rewards learning your weapon and would make each and every gun feel completely different from one another.

[gibonez 3633]

If the mods would be kind enough to move this thread to the suggestion sub forum I would appreciate it.

 

The thread initially started with the option for input from the community and that input has lead to what I believe could be an awesome shooting mechanic for stand alone.

 

Thanks.