PVP + hunger bar = Survival Game? Gameplay fits story?

[Marooney 2]

Nice story about humans got infected and became zombies.

There are survivors that are immune against zombies and now have to survive. Survive.. well survive what? In game I do not get the point of the zombie story at all.

1. You have to find food

2. You have to be able to fight zombies.

3. You have to be able to heal yourself.

4. ?

 

1. Getting food is only interesting/"challenging" when you are about to learn which tools can be used to open cans, what happens when eating rotten things and so on.

2. Not sure what i do wrong, but fighting AI gets pretty boring an annoying after a while.

3. Yep find medic loot. I only need to heal myself if i got hit by a glitching/lagging zombie atm. Else you just need to circle the AI and try to hit the head. And avoid map glitches at all.

 

Well i survive since 30 hours and avoid any glitch and bug situations to keep me healthy. So I could continue this now for my whole life?

 

Oh wait a second.. there are other players.. But.. survival means, stay alive. And.. I DO.. so mission NOT accomplished?

So why do I need other players to survive the post apocalypse, if i am already surviving?

Oh I can be friendly and.. do what? Killing zombies with them that i can kill myself? Heal others they are capable to kill zombies without being hit?

 

Ok.. and now the survival story runs out of content.. And human being has to do what? Kill each other.. I mean well yes what to do else? We are so happy to be immune and survive and what ever.. So we need to do PVP.

So in the end people are just looting their loadout by hopping from server to server, to prepare for surv.. uhm sorry for PVP. Food is no problem at all and just overhead of an neglected story.

 

So in the end. It is all about loadout, pvp, respawn.

- Looting pvp loadout seems kind of boring routine where people are still happy about finding the same stuff over and over again, just to hop to another server to find items on the same spot. ..on empty servers of course.. well.. there are games where looting is more fun and accomplishing.

- PVP.. well.. there are games where this IS part of the story/gameplay.

- Respawn.. well.. only hurts if you do not want to waste your time for looting and server hopping again.

 

I really beg you, proof me wrong. I played so many shooters and so on and do not see any difference.. Being happy about loadout, killing other players (alone or in teamplay).. What for is the glory story about infection and what for are the stupid zombies if you actually just have to "survive" against other players, like all the other non survival games?

 

As I said, I do not see any reason to continue looking for people on the servers just to risk my life in the name of survival?

Put a hunger bar into Battlefield and.. voila.. it's a survival game.. ?

Why people prefer the DayZ mod? Because it is based on PVP (Arma).. without the overhead complexity of an neglected survival story.

 

What do I expect from an Survival Game?

Look at "The Forest" Game. You are getting hunt by the story and not by survivors.

And you know what? I do not care if the story tells me that I am immune. I don't want to have the immunity god mode. I just want to keep SURVIVING and sill trying not to be infected!

If i get infected i expect to be a zombie. Please don't stick to a malfunctioned story if you have the power to improve it in the standalone version...

 

Either you like the game and the story does not fit. Or you love the survival-story and the gameplay does not fit.

Anyways.. I want to play story.. there are so many other games with this kind of gameplay where even the story fits.

 

So my suggestions for zombie survival:

1. The survivors survived because they managed to avoid infection or getting killed.. they are NOT immune. You seamlessly continue this story..
2. The survivor still has an immune system to maintain. (hunger, thirst, keep dry, avoid food sickness, avoid broken limbs...)
3. The survivor CAN BE infected by zombie scratches, bites, or maybe when using dirty items,... Adjustable chance to get infected. (Chance is reduced by periodically using preventive-serums)
4. If a survivor gets infected (sleeping virus) the incubation time relies on his immune system. (Can only be healed by an special anti-serum..
5. Player does not know that he is infected, and after incubation the symptoms are like a normal sickness for a while. (Unless he tests with expensive test sets)
6. Because here starts the funny part: If the infection takes over your brain, you do not know until you get in range of another player/animal. Because then your brain/HUD triggers to zombie. You lose control over your body and AI takes over for this moment of blackout. You are about to watch how you run after your team mate to smash him down to still your hunger. All your direct communication voice is scrambled to zombie scream for the others..
7. At this point you play PVP - Your mates gonna shoot you or they restrain and heal you.
8. You as a zombie: Zombies just need to keep blood thirst level by eating uninfected animals or players ("special smell" by displayed color chrome or what else). Else you will lose control over your character on sight of an animal or player. Your choice if you want to hunt on your own or random madness by AI, where it is more likely to die - remember.. you still got your full equipment. (not sure how much equipment should be usable as infected zombie ^^ why zombies must be that stupid?)
9. Because zombies are up to uninfected blood.. as survivor you should be alerted if they are starting to ignore you. The advanced the incubation the less the chance of getting chased by a zombie. 
10. You want to stay as zombie and not looking for anti-serum? Keep going, eat es much as you can and get stronger. (Reminds me of the game Evolve) ^^
11. As zombie you can gather AI and or Player zombies around you to invade. The stronger the more and better zombies.
12. Be aware of getting shot by an anti-serum gun.

Why you need to be friendly? Many reasons to put in, maybe serums and tests can only injected/handled by other players. You got enough to do with AI and Player zombies so there is no need to kill own people if you can kill and even loot zombies. And even zombies could share meal ;)

 

How to differ between zombies and players? Movement? Too easy? If zombies would be only brain infected for the need of blood meals, there could be not that difference. So just by pretty dirty, damaged and bloody clothes after couple of blood meals. And of course the look into their lovely blue eyes ;)

 

I could continue this story gameplay and balancing.. if someone would care  :rolleyes:  ;)

But me as software developer, I know that ideas are just brain fck. Actually there must be a roadmap already, i hope it is survival with story fitting pvp.

So endless story short: What ever story you have, it is standalone and not bound to anything, so ffs just make it playable  :lol:

 

thx, hf

Edited June 17, 2014 by Marooney

[Polarghost 4]

I'm not even going to bite.

[dayy 173]

Nice format, but didnt read it all, any chance u could summarize for us?

[Marooney 2]

Nice format, but didnt read it all, any chance u could summarize for us?

 

Yep, of course.

Survival should not lead to Survivor vs Survivor just because there is nothing else to do or fight for.

No need to build up such a story at all if it affects gameplay only the first 10 minutes and runs out of content.

People love PVP so stick to story and let's play Player vs Player-Zombies. (yep people are talking about this over and over again, so what is wrong with that idea?)

No need to be in anti-virus god mode. Survivors survived because of taking care and that is still what the player has to do.

 

Actually it should be obvious that only the environment and not the gameplay fits the story, that is why I felt to explain this to "I actually do not know whom"...

Edited June 17, 2014 by Marooney

[over9000nukez 199]

oh god no....

 

cant we just make food more scarse and damage from zombies can lead to infected wounds? 

 

if i were a zombie id run right off a roof and kill myself,
 

I read the ending, and i feel it right now its just in dev, and not really balanced right, they'll probably make food rare, and zombies more dangerous, and ammunition more scarce, or more variant, so that its hard to find the correct ammo.

Edited June 17, 2014 by over9000nukez

[Marooney 2]

I'm not even going to bite.

 

:thumbsup: Neither do I  ;)

That is why it would be fun when the zombie-instinct would cause a blackout without any warning.. where you just lose control to the AI to chase after someone - especially if you are within a group of survivals :) And that happens only if you are under a certain hunger/blood-thirst (or what ever) level and you soon about to die. (Startet to be a zombie, or run out of food while playing a zombie)

So actually there would be a reason why zombies are hunting, and actually a explanation where they are getting energy from, because they are neither undead nor perpetuum mobiles ;)

[Marooney 2]

 

if i were a zombie id run right off a roof and kill myself,

 

 

Yep players choice :) But the Idea assumes that the zombie-gameplay is appropriate developed to make it fun to play. Maybe even needs to be played. If you die as a zombie you will spawn as a zombie, maybe as existing zombie near survivors. If you die as survivor you will spawn as survivor.

Sounds hard but it would be the first game with a longer pattern to play. Not like the same spawn, loot, kill, die thing. Time as zombie still counts as complete survival time since you are still alive as zombie or survivor.

I mean, why not a new and different kind of game instead of sticking to left for dead and dead island and so on?

 

Just my opinion.

After I tried Altis Life in Arma 3, i thought it would be fun if people have to try to get the cities up and running and keep them free of zombies. Even base/defense building would make more sense in this situation.

There would be plenty of players who would like to infect the population as zombies and gain territory back.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Marooney

[Marooney 2]

 

I read the ending, and i feel it right now its just in dev, and not really balanced right, they'll probably make food rare, and zombies more dangerous, and ammunition more scarce, or more variant, so that its hard to find the correct ammo.

 

And how does this solve PVP in a survival game, where survival should force player to work together, like many people are trying to do and complaining to fail because of assholes?

Yep it gets harder for survivors. It will not only be asshole vs survivor but zombies+assholes vs survivors because only the stupid survivors/noobs will search for rare loot and mess with zombies instead of just kill and loot players..

 

Yep in RL people would kill each other for food.. But It is NOT like in real life because in RL everyone cares about his life, and no one bothers after he died.. And all geared up players could kill zombies right now as well, but somehow they prefer to kill survivors, and they do not even need food ;)

 

Why in all survival movies people try to find and team up with other people?

Edited June 17, 2014 by Marooney

[andrestor 78]

:thumbsup: Neither do I  ;)

That is why it would be fun when the zombie-instinct would cause a blackout without any warning.. where you just lose control to the AI to chase after someone - especially if you are within a group of survivals :) And that happens only if you are under a certain hunger/blood-thirst (or what ever) level and you soon about to die. (Startet to be a zombie, or run out of food while playing a zombie)

So actually there would be a reason why zombies are hunting, and actually a explanation where they are getting energy from, because they are neither undead nor perpetuum mobiles ;)

He's actually talking about not biting what he thinks is troll bait.

IMO you are right, all you have mentioned is true but there are other posts out there that have dealt with the same things.

Especially this one

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/170523-why-dayz-is-no-survival-game/

[yazz1234567 6]

I think the developers are working on ways to give you shelter and to upgrade it. I guess soon we will be able to survive rather than kill :P

GO DAYZ DEV TEAM! YAY!

[randomspawn 215]

Yep, of course.

Survival should not lead to Survivor vs Survivor just because there is nothing else to do or fight for.

No need to build up such a story at all if it affects gameplay only the first 10 minutes and runs out of content.

People love PVP so stick to story and let's play Player vs Player-Zombies. (yep people are talking about this over and over again, so what is wrong with that idea?)

No need to be in anti-virus god mode. Survivors survived because of taking care and that is still what the player has to do.

 

Actually it should be obvious that only the environment and not the gameplay fits the story, that is why I felt to explain this to "I actually do not know whom"...

Your TLDR is too long to read. can you summarize the whole thing up into a word, perhaps a sentence at most? I truly tried to read it, but I got so lost I started stabbing myself in my belly button. I fear I may need my belly button in the future, so I stopped readings. K. thanx.

[Marooney 2]

Your TLDR is too long to read. can you summarize the whole thing up into a word, perhaps a sentence at most? I truly tried to read it, but I got so lost I started stabbing myself in my belly button. I fear I may need my belly button in the future, so I stopped readings. K. thanx.

 

Sorry needed little bit more sentences for my frustration ;) Just because i was one of the people who are complaining that you can not be friendly in a survival game that is actually about co-op by definition.

People who love PVP are preferring Arma. People who like to play survival are complaining about PVP in SA. So something went wrong. That is all i say.

 

Yep implement some more hats and toys too keep survivors happy while encouraging PVP by rare loot where only noobs are going for .. after killing stronger zombies and before getting shot by assholes.

No sense at all to kill survivors atm, more sense to kill is obviously the direction. So it is the wrong place in the game for real survivors. That's it.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Marooney

[dayy 173]

Yep, of course.

Survival should not lead to Survivor vs Survivor just because there is nothing else to do or fight for.

No need to build up such a story at all if it affects gameplay only the first 10 minutes and runs out of content.

People love PVP so stick to story and let's play Player vs Player-Zombies. (yep people are talking about this over and over again, so what is wrong with that idea?)

No need to be in anti-virus god mode. Survivors survived because of taking care and that is still what the player has to do.

 

Actually it should be obvious that only the environment and not the gameplay fits the story, that is why I felt to explain this to "I actually do not know whom"...

 

THnks bro, from ur summary, you are making some valid points, that this due (me) so happens to agree with :P

[Grimey Rick 3417]

Don't feel bad OP, my love for the DayZ legacy died a brutal death after playing through The Last of Us a few times. Now that is a zombie game.

[Daemonkid 493]

Big helping pile of NOPE.

TL;DR

[MarchmelloMan 16]

So in the end. It is all about loadout, pvp, respawn.

- Looting pvp loadout seems kind of boring routine where people are still happy about finding the same stuff over and over again, just to hop to another server to find items on the same spot. ..on empty servers of course.. well.. there are games where looting is more fun and accomplishing.

- PVP.. well.. there are games where this IS part of the story/gameplay.

- Respawn.. well.. only hurts if you do not want to waste your time for looting and server hopping again.

Well, actually that really is most of the stuff. But it is far away from boring. Why?

Because the interactions make it in comparison to other games uniquely exciting. You don't know if the other one is evil, good, passive, active, a psycho, whatever. In most MMOs other players can't really kill you, you can only write with them ingame, it is much more static and nothing of value, far away from reality. In games like battlefield 3, death is nothing special and part of the pvp, you don't really interact with other players, you just shoot them, interactions aren't really of value or really exciting too. Here takes DayZ another edge and makes it more real, less static and gives you the choice to do whatever you want, plus the fact, that a wrong choice could cost your life. And that is exactly what makes it so exciting.

For your story, you have no real goal. It is just what it should be, walking through an post-apocalyptic world with all the freedom you can have and doing what you want. Looking for freshspawns and help them. Finding friendly survivors and team up. Hunting other players and becoming a good predator. Even torturing is possible. And you will never know what and how the next interaction will be.

So currently, I have actually no other game that makes PVP, interactions, call it as you like, as exciting as they are in DayZ.

Though, I like the idea with the serum, which causes more "friendly" interactions, and some of your other suggestions :)

Edited June 18, 2014 by MarchmelloMan

[rickyriot 1009]

I quite like the idea that due to the infection you need to regularly medicate yourself or you become zombified. The zombifying process would involve your motor skills reducing, vision blurring, reactions slowing, etc. This would do a lot to stop those who just sit and camp and would provide an extra metric along with food and water to keep your guy healthy and alive. 

 

Of course the difficulty is in regulating the supply of the medicine in such a way that it can't be horded, isn't too easy to find nor too hard. That would be the tricky element.

[Marooney 2]

You don't know if the other one is evil, good, passive, active, a psycho, whatever.

[...]

that a wrong choice could cost your life

 

Hm and you need to know why?

As everyone complains.. the right choice atm is just KOS. You even get loot for.

No gameplay reward for being friendly at all. No need for bloodbag if you shoot first.

 

And as many people keep saying. It is more rewarding to play with friends in TS than finding/trusting new "friends".

No matter what you do, in the end you are going to play Arma with hunger bar and no Survival at all.

 

 

For your story, you have no real goal. 

 

 

Ok, so we assume the game tries to reflect reality. Ever thought about what is human being going to do in such situation?

Survive and rebuild.. or kill each other?  Did we kill each other when pest and other pandemics killed so many people?

 

Is there really any in-game possibility/reason/goal for the first choice at all?

 

Goal could simply be: Do what should be done..

1. Clear cities of zombies.
2. Keep cities free of zombies. Build and repair barricades. Gather material with other people. Do patrols with other people.
3. Do not let zombies breach barricades (some kind of tower defense) -  The more people in town the more zombies will rush.
4. Ask other cities to help defending your base if about to fall. Or join them.
5. Trade materials with other bases or rush them if you run out of supplies or materials.
6. ...

You still can not trust everyone but at least the game would reward some reality behavior.

You still can play lonely wolf and/or bandit if you want to. It even will be something special in the whole picture, because it MAKES a difference.

 

As i said.. i think fighting against AI is just annoying/senseless/non-rewarding.. it would be great to assist the AI zombie fraction as player.

You fight/win/lose against someone who cares about on both sides.

 

The point of not taking care in survival is, that you can infect other mates (even in already secured areas).. so even if there is no player-zombie gameplay, it still would make sense to watch yourself to become an AI controlled zombie chasing after mates before losing control at all and respawn as survivor.

 

[Marooney 2]

I quite like the idea that due to the infection you need to regularly medicate yourself or you become zombified. The zombifying process would involve your motor skills reducing, vision blurring, reactions slowing, etc. This would do a lot to stop those who just sit and camp and would provide an extra metric along with food and water to keep your guy healthy and alive. 

 

Of course the difficulty is in regulating the supply of the medicine in such a way that it can't be horded, isn't too easy to find nor too hard. That would be the tricky element.

 

Yep virus showing effects would be effective against campers. But something more painful:

Zombies somehow differ between zombies and survivors. Ever wondered why they need to or why they can?

I think zombies should need to eat uninfected meat. (Like many movies or games)

I think zombies should differ between infected and uninfected by smell. (The longer you camp the bigger the cloud ;) )

 

I think it would be more thrilling if the virus does not show any symptoms at all. It is a virus.. could be silent like AIDS.

1. You have it or not, you can infect other players by bloodbags, needles and so on and you do not even know.
2. You will get it with less chance if you use preventive serums.
3. You will be infected but it does not break out as long as your immune system is at an certain level.
4. You only will realize if someone does a virus test for you.
5. You only get rid of it by a special anti-serum.
6. If it breaks out you will realize it in that moment when your zombie instinct triggers. It triggers on sight of uninfected meat (team mate or animal)
7. You lose control to AI when it triggers, you are about to watch how you kill your mate. So you are dead.. OR i would prefer the zombie fraction for deeper gameplay content.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Marooney

[Dorner 9]

Hey look!! It this post again...

 

Its ALPHA bro.  "End game" stuff hasnt even been touched yet. 

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

4. ?

 

[Marooney 2]

Hey look!! It this post again...

 

Its ALPHA bro.  "End game" stuff hasnt even been touched yet. 

 

 

Sorry if I think that the roadmap looks more like persisting "arma pvp + hunger" than "story and survival of human being".

I do not care about vehicles and hunting animals and wearing nice hats as long as there is no little reason to team up and build up and go against zombies and live/turn the story.

Survival of human being - players, or Battlefield - players.. A mix of both simply does not make sense for either of them as you can see atm.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Marooney

[over9000nukez 199]

And how does this solve PVP in a survival game, where survival should force player to work together, like many people are trying to do and complaining to fail because of assholes?

Yep it gets harder for survivors. It will not only be asshole vs survivor but zombies+assholes vs survivors because only the stupid survivors/noobs will search for rare loot and mess with zombies instead of just kill and loot players..

 

Yep in RL people would kill each other for food.. But It is NOT like in real life because in RL everyone cares about his life, and no one bothers after he died.. And all geared up players could kill zombies right now as well, but somehow they prefer to kill survivors, and they do not even need food ;)

 

Why in all survival movies people try to find and team up with other people?

in real life people wouldnt kill eachother, it would be usless unless your on the brink of starvation, which is why food should be scarce, and ammo scarce, there would be a REASON to kill someone if spotted, the game isnt done yet, and later it will get balanced i think. player zombies wont solve this problem, and it would be odd because your friend could use the zombie mode to spot where the enemy is.

[Marooney 2]

there would be a REASON to kill someone if spotted

 

Yep, that means there must be very very good reasons NOT to kill just for fun. We will see if all the "friendly" players will be happy.