Where do we go if GSPs are not dealing with abuse?

[daringd 88]

Where do we look to for help when we have reported servers to GSPs for rule breaking and nothing is done?  

 

I've been reporting abuse as I find it directly to GSPs and as yet only one of them actually deals with any of the problems, the rest are there hours even days later.

 

What happens next?

Edited June 15, 2014 by daringd

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

They like their $100/month they receive from the renter

Edited June 14, 2014 by Caboose187

[daringd 88]

Exactly, now don'T get me wrong here, I'm not pointing any fingers, but it seems that the people who are giving out bans and suspensions are the people that stand to benefit from not handing out thoses punishments at all.  

 

The system of reporting to GSPs is all well and good until they start shirking and then what do we do?  now we have people who are getting away with playing on what are now essentially private servers, gearing up and going off into the public hive fully geared.

 

A question I've wanted to ask:

 

Why are the GSPs giving people the ability to password servers?

 

But this doesn't answer the question of who is policing the GSPs?

...and how are they doing that?

...and who do we complain to when they don't do what they should be doing?

[theirongiant 200]

There is no financial incentive for BI or GSP's to ban servers. They're not going to spend money in paying people to investigate servers just so they can ban them and lose more money. Public hive is nice idea but I just can't see how it'll work, if items are made rare globally people are going to go on public servers raid for good gear, log out, go to their personal servers, stash the good gear and then rinse and repeat. It's sad but that's the way it is, some people will shoot every angle for an advantage, spoiling it for everyone else. I'd love to be proved wrong but I'd imagine that, like the mod, private hives will be the only defence against a lot of this stuff.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

There is no financial incentive for BI or GSP's to ban servers. They're not going to spend money in paying people to investigate servers just so they can ban them and lose more money. Public hive is nice idea but I just can't see how it'll work, if items are made rare globally people are going to go on public servers raid for good gear, log out, go to their personal servers, stash the good gear and then rinse and repeat. It's sad but that's the way it is, some people will shoot every angle for an advantage, spoiling it for everyone else. I'd love to be proved wrong but I'd imagine that, like the mod, private hives will be the only defence against a lot of this stuff.

This.  It's pretty pathetic that Bohemia actually allows these GSP's to run the servers the way they do especially in an ALPHA stage.  

[frosti 2165]

I just hope in the future Rocket will reduce admin powers even more.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I just hope in the future Rocket will reduce admin powers even more.

Lol, we don't really have any powers.  All we can do is kick

[daringd 88]

Well, it seems madness to just sit back and accept that's how it is, surely it's worth making a little noise about it, because essentially what's happening is that if you have the money, you can get an advantage over other players, which is exactly a situation the project has steered away from.

 

I will say this, Fragnet, in my opinion, have been the stand-out amongst all of the GSPs I have dealt with so far, fast (most times I've seen them unlock serves in minutes), friendly, communicative (constant updates and replies to let you know it is in had or dealt with) and have dealt with the problems I have reported.

 

 

PS -   thank you, whoever changed the title for me...:)

Edited June 14, 2014 by daringd

[HIHBGaming 14]

It is a sad state of affairs when I as an Admin can't seem to do a farking thing to properly run my server.

 

I received an email the other day from my GSP stating "We currently cannot give any further access out for BEC due to the rules that the DayZ developers are currently enforcing." This was in response to me asking them what happened to external RCon access. I had one GSP actually ask me why external RCon was important and that they honestly didn't see the need for anyone to have it... Really!?

And what rules are they actually enforcing?

 

My point here is, that they seem to be giving less access/tools to admins who are doing the right thing and trying to admin properly, while letting these assclowns get away with whatever they get away with. I am feeling the pain and almost to the point where shutting down the server until this shit is sorted is more cost effective. At the moment I'm paying for a server I; for the most part; have no control over as I watch others doing the wrong thing get away with it.

 

I honestly think they should have a application process to run a server because at this point badmins are on the increase.  

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

It is a sad state of affairs when I as an Admin can't seem to do a farking thing to properly run my server.

 

I received an email the other day from my GSP stating "We currently cannot give any further access out for BEC due to the rules that the DayZ developers are currently enforcing." This was in response to me asking them what happened to external RCon access. I had one GSP actually ask me why external RCon was important and that they honestly didn't see the need for anyone to have it... Really!?

And what rules are they actually enforcing?

 

My point here is, that they seem to be giving less access/tools to admins who are doing the right thing and trying to admin properly, while letting these assclowns get away with whatever they get away with. I am feeling the pain and almost to the point where shutting down the server until this shit is sorted is more cost effective. At the moment I'm paying for a server I; for the most part; have no control over as I watch others doing the wrong thing get away with it.

 

I honestly think they should have a application process to run a server because at this point badmins are on the increase.  

That's why I've decided to bring mine down for the time being.  I pay for it myself and it costs $100, well $94 to be exact, to run it.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Caboose187

[daringd 88]

I completely see your point R.Neville, and I'd be annoyed too if I was running a server, but the question is, and has to be - What can be done about it?

 

In the interests of trying to be constructive, I feel we have to at least have a few ideas to throw around to tighten up on this problem while we are still in one giant public hive, Although I think that removing completely the ability to password is a start (since it is against the rules right now) I don't think that removing admin tools is a good idea at all, why should everyone suffer because of the Badmins?

 

Bear in mind all of these I'm throwing out there to be shot down, with the intention of maybe hitting on a couple of decent points... 

 

1. Application process

2. Server name policies (to cut out certain words, phrases and so on)

3. a kick auto check system, something along the line of counting the amount of kicks per unique user on a server, so if you have two people on and everyone else gets kicked (say 80 unique players try to log in but are kicked) you have some idea that abuse is happening, if you have a server that has seen 140 unique players and only 6 have been kicked at some point, then it would seem that the server is not being protected by the admins from normal users. - if that makes sense...

4. BI start coming down harder on GSPs for not responding to abuse complaints (though... I have no idea how this could be enforced)

5. The community takes it upon it's self to begin policing this problem, but then this has it's own unique set of problems...

Edited June 15, 2014 by daringd

[General Zod 1118]

Nowhere, the dayz team already made it clear that they couldn't care less. And that we should keep on filling our useless reports, despite the fact that some GSPs responded to reports saying that they don't give a fuck. 

Edited June 15, 2014 by General Zod

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I completely see your point R.Neville, and I'd be annoyed too if I was running a server, but the question is, and has to be - What can be done about it?

 

In the interests of trying to be constructive, I feel we have to at least have a few ideas to throw around to tighten up on this problem while we are still in one giant public hive, Although I think that removing completely the ability to password is a start (since it is against the rules right now) I don't think that removing admin tools is a good idea at all, why should everyone suffer because of the Badmins?

 

Bear in mind all of these I'm throwing out there to be shot down, with the intention of maybe hitting on a couple of decent points... 

 

1. Application process

2. Server name policies (to cut out certain words, phrases and so on)

3. a kick auto check system, something along the line of counting the amount of kicks per unique user on a server, so if you have two people on and everyone else gets kicked (say 80 unique players try to log in but are kicked) you have some idea that abuse is happening, if you have a server that has seen 140 unique players and only 6 have been kicked at some point, then it would seem that the server is not being protected by the admins from normal users. - if that makes sense...

4. BI start coming down harder on GSPs for not responding to abuse complaints (though... I have no idea how this could be enforced)

5. The community takes it upon it's self to begin policing this problem, but then this has it's own unique set of problems...

The problem with number 5 is that any thread that names a server that could be abusing gets locked so even the community cannot enforce itself.  Another issues is these douchebags who run the bad servers most likely do it via clan pay so they can have them shutdown but they'll easily just get another one and keep on being douchebags so in the end it doesn't matter.  BiS doesn't care, the GSP's are raking in the cash so they don't care.  The only other option for action is people to start taking their own servers offline and maybe it'll give a wake up call to BiS to get off their asses and do something about these abusive servers.  Hell, "we" the players, shouldn't have to shell out money to test this game in the first place.  That should be on BiS to do and monitor.  Release servers upon  actual game release.

[theirongiant 200]

I just hope in the future Rocket will reduce admin powers even more.

 

I think that's throwing the baby out with the bath water a little. There were plenty of good mod servers run by good admins, it's just a fact of life that there will be bad ones. To police to totally would cost too much money, you'd need a massive support task to investigate complaints, although you'd think the one's who advertise themselves as loot servers would be the low hanging fruit that wouldn't take too much effort. I've thought about it and I can't see how a public hive will work considering the amount of exploiters out there. In all honesty it didn't work for the mod and it was (imo) private hives that saved the game from disappearing under a blizzard of thunderdomes and hacked in ammo crates back in the day.

[daringd 88]

Such a frustrating issue.

 

I might just recreate the thread over on Reddit and see what happens there, though I am sure I will get shot down by the exact people who do this sort of thing.

[HIHBGaming 14]

Really I'm not sure what it takes to rectify the problem but just looking in the server list and shutting them down is real easy. That would get rid of a lot of the servers that are doing the wrong thing.

 

I truly believe that some kind of app process would help immensely and I know I would have no qualms in jumping through hoops, knowing that at the end of the process that it helps filter out shit admins.

 

Yeah, we can talk with our wallets but currently GSP's will make their money on these shit admins time and time again because of the reasons stated by Caboose but I fully agree that it's a major problem and needs to be sorted.

Maybe all paid servers do need to be gotten rid of until they can better police it or until final release. 

[daringd 88]

It would be nice if someone who had a bit of swing at least acknowledged the problem. 

 

To police to totally would cost too much money, you'd need a massive support task to investigate complaints, although you'd think the one's who advertise themselves as loot servers would be the low hanging fruit that wouldn't take too much effort.

 

Exactly, this would be part of the problem gone, and could be automated, a simple suspension of service until the name of the server at least conforms to the rules, though the problem of admins dishing out kicks to everyone who isn't their mate wont be easy to solve, it seems like the only way to really deal with it, since there is no official line on it, is to take community policing away from the DayZ site, but then there is a danger of things getting a little too "law in your own hands"

Edited June 15, 2014 by daringd

[theirongiant 200]

tbh I have some sympathy with BI, I suppose even if they kicked the obvious culprits, they'd just avoid making it obvious it wouldn't actually change what's going on. Hopefully the new loot spawning thing will put an end to that at least although I still have massive reservations over the public hive being susceptible to this sort of issue. 

[daringd 88]

Right now my main problem is finding servers that are called something like "for friends only, keep out or kick - hosted by twatnet.com"

 

then when you go and check it out, you are immediately kicked, I was in three servers yesterday that were doing this, and I complained to all of the GSPs and got nothing back at all.

 

Still nothing this morning...  

 

I just can't believe that there is no one else making noise about this, it's f##king ridiculous.

 

It is undermining and destroying the whole concept of the game.

[Macdeth 176]

the problem is the GSP's are not motivated to do anything. The guys that rent the servers are the GSP's living, why would they deprive themselves of income just to keep a gamer in Liverpool happy.

 

Again it comes down to BIS, they need to be actively involved in this, they have delegated running of servers to the community they have delegated anti hack to battle eye and they don't seem to care about the fact that it don't work.

 

they need to have someone who is monitioring the reports and the actions of the GSP's, if the GSP's don't act against the bad admins they lose the right to rent out DayZ servers.

 

This would end the GSP's indifference overnight and dealing with bad admins would suddenly become a major priority.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Macdeth

[daringd 88]

 

the problem is the GSP's are not motivated to do anything. The guys that rent the servers are the GSP's living, why would they deprive themselves of income just to keep a gamer in Liverpool happy.

 

Again it comes down to BIS, they need to be actively involved in this, they have delegated running of servers to the community they have delegated anti hack to battle eye and they don't seem to care about the fact that it don't work.

 

they need to have someone who is monitioring the reports and the actions of the GSP's, if the GSP's don't act against the bad admins they lose the right to rent out DayZ servers.

 

This would end the GSP's indifference overnight and dealing with bad admins would suddenly become a major priority.

 

I agree whole heartedly

 

Some people will say things like "it would cost too much" or "it would be too big a task"  but frankly, that isn't our problem, it's up to them to take the measures needed, or at least that is how I see it.

[daringd 88]

OK, so I just had a thought.....

 

This would stop GSPs losing money by having to terminate contracts...

 

How about if people are found to be abusing admin powers then their server is set to a default mode where they have suspended admin powers for a period of time, so they can not kick, restart, whatever, if found guilty of abusing the powers, then repeat offenders lose the powers for longer and longer periods of time.

 

That seems like a system that would keep servers up, keep money coming in to the GSPs and only punish the people who are breaking the rules.  They can argue that with no admin powers they wont be able to protect their servers against genuine threats, but a server with a few exploiters on is better than a server you can't even get on because of constant kicking.

 

But, it does mean that BI still have to come down on the GSPs and ensure they are cracking down on this.

 

the end result is that we are all suffering, the aplha testing is suffering and the reputation of the entire project will be marred by this, just like the mod was with hackers.

[daringd 88]

 

So here is a side by side of two companies and how they differ in their approach to dealing with abuse

 

Fragnet

 

***initial report*** at 3:39am (3-6)

 

server on IP ???.???.???.???:??? has enabled a password and is un-enterable.

 

***reply - meber of staff*** at 4:20am (3-6)

 

Hello,

 

Thank You very much for the information provided. We've contacted the client. If he continues violating the rules we will suspend his services in the upcoming 4 hours until the password is removed.

 

Kind Regards,

 

So that was Fragnet, the user did re password his server and I wrote then again, they got back to me evrytime and told me what was happening, the user is now on their last warning and I have seen that they suspended his service numerous times throughout our communications.

 

Next onto Gameservers

 

***initial report***  at 6:09pm (14-6)

 

I have just been playing on server:

 

???.???.???.??:????

 

The server is named

 

DayZ ????????????????????????? - Hosted by gameservers.com

 

I was kicked out multiple times from the server, I then began recording my screen, so I have video proof of this activity if you require it, the file is quite large (84MB) but I could condense it if needs be.

 

I don't know what the penalty is for this, but it is happening over and over and they are making sure it is only the two of them on the server, i would appreciate it if you could deal with this, please, and let me know it is in hand.

 

If you need me to send you the file I would be glad, but i would suggest logging in to the server, you will almost defiantly be kicked within minutes.

 

 

***reply - autoresponce*** at 6:10pm (14-6)

 

Dear Customer,

 

A support ticket has been created in our system on your behalf. Here is the ticket summary:

 

??????????????

 

You can use this information to track the progress of your support ticket.

 

If you did not request this support ticket, please contact abuse@gameservers.com immediately.

 

~ The GameServers.com Team ~

      Frag. Not Lag.

 

 

***second attempt***  at 8:39pm (14-6)

 

Reference: ?????????

 

Hello again,

 

I'm just reporting that this problem is still happening, The server admin/admins are still kicking anyone who is not one of their friends.

 

Is anyone looking into this and when can we expect it to be fixed?

 

 

***reply - autoresponce*** at 8:39pm (14-6)

 

Your request has been updated 

 

 

***third attempt***  at 2:33am (15-6)

 

This server has not been dealt with, the client is still kicking everyone that enters...

 

How long does it usually take for reports to be actioned?

 

 

***reply - autoresponce*** at 2:33am (15-6)

 

*copy of message*

 

***reply - member of staff*** at 4:09am (15-6)

 

Your request has been updated by ??????????? [staff]. Message Content:

 

Hello,

 

Thank you for your report. We investigate all DayZ abuse reports and take appropriate action if a server is found to be in violation of the hosting rules.

 

Thanks,

 

??????????

 

***fourth attempt*** at 4:50pm (15-6)

 

 

This server is still operating a complete kick policy, everytime I enter I am kicked almost instantly, has anything been done yet?

 

***reply - autoresponce*** at 4:50pm (15-6)

 

*copy of message***

 

I still have no resolution almost a day later

 

Fragnet will most likely lose a customer through being a better GSP than Gameservers, now anyone who says it takes a long time to folow up reports has been proven wrong by the responce time of Fragnet, they do what they do well, so why can't Gameservers do the same thing?

 

Someone needs to look at this...  really. It's madness.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

 

 

So here is a side by side of two companies and how they differ in their approach to dealing with abuse

 

Fragnet

 

***initial report*** at 3:39am (3-6)

 

server on IP ???.???.???.???:??? has enabled a password and is un-enterable.

 

***reply - meber of staff*** at 4:20am (3-6)

 

Hello,

 

Thank You very much for the information provided. We've contacted the client. If he continues violating the rules we will suspend his services in the upcoming 4 hours until the password is removed.

 

Kind Regards,

 

So that was Fragnet, the user did re password his server and I wrote then again, they got back to me evrytime and told me what was happening, the user is now on their last warning and I have seen that they suspended his service numerous times throughout our communications.

 

Next onto Gameservers

 

***initial report***  at 6:09pm (14-6)

 

I have just been playing on server:

 

???.???.???.??:????

 

The server is named

 

DayZ ????????????????????????? - Hosted by gameservers.com

 

I was kicked out multiple times from the server, I then began recording my screen, so I have video proof of this activity if you require it, the file is quite large (84MB) but I could condense it if needs be.

 

I don't know what the penalty is for this, but it is happening over and over and they are making sure it is only the two of them on the server, i would appreciate it if you could deal with this, please, and let me know it is in hand.

 

If you need me to send you the file I would be glad, but i would suggest logging in to the server, you will almost defiantly be kicked within minutes.

 

 

***reply - autoresponce*** at 6:10pm (14-6)

 

Dear Customer,

 

A support ticket has been created in our system on your behalf. Here is the ticket summary:

 

??????????????

 

You can use this information to track the progress of your support ticket.

 

If you did not request this support ticket, please contact abuse@gameservers.com immediately.

 

~ The GameServers.com Team ~

      Frag. Not Lag.

 

 

***second attempt***  at 8:39pm (14-6)

 

Reference: ?????????

 

Hello again,

 

I'm just reporting that this problem is still happening, The server admin/admins are still kicking anyone who is not one of their friends.

 

Is anyone looking into this and when can we expect it to be fixed?

 

 

***reply - autoresponce*** at 8:39pm (14-6)

 

Your request has been updated 

 

 

***third attempt***  at 2:33am (15-6)

 

This server has not been dealt with, the client is still kicking everyone that enters...

 

How long does it usually take for reports to be actioned?

 

 

***reply - autoresponce*** at 2:33am (15-6)

 

*copy of message*

 

***reply - member of staff*** at 4:09am (15-6)

 

Your request has been updated by ??????????? [staff]. Message Content:

 

Hello,

 

Thank you for your report. We investigate all DayZ abuse reports and take appropriate action if a server is found to be in violation of the hosting rules.

 

Thanks,

 

??????????

 

***fourth attempt*** at 4:50pm (15-6)

 

 

This server is still operating a complete kick policy, everytime I enter I am kicked almost instantly, has anything been done yet?

 

***reply - autoresponce*** at 4:50pm (15-6)

 

*copy of message***

 

I still have no resolution almost a day later

 

Fragnet will most likely lose a customer through being a better GSP than Gameservers, now anyone who says it takes a long time to folow up reports has been proven wrong by the responce time of Fragnet, they do what they do well, so why can't Gameservers do the same thing?

 

Someone needs to look at this...  really. It's madness.

 

Are you generating $$$ for gameservers?  If not, there is your answer.  It sucks balls but welcome to the business world

[General Zod 1118]

Like I said no one gives two fucks about that issue, not dayZ team and certainly not the server providers.