More civillian clothing.. Less military

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

I mean, it's not like when the apocalypse happens... somebody goes around ripping up clothes for giggles. Or somebody goes around opening gun safes, only to beat their weapons senseless.

 

If an apocalyptic cataclysm like an outbreak of "zombie infection" happened, I'd put my money on a lot of shit being left behind.

 

If anything, there'd be tons of pristine clothing left behind in drawers and closets, as it's not really an essential item. Taking your entire wardrobe with you isn't necessarily the first thing on most folk's mind.

 

And the fact that the outbreak left no folks other than "survivors" meaning, players, I think we can assume that military bases are unguarded for the purposes of DayZ...

 

Military gear is a facet of DayZ, and always has been. It's always been a feature, even an emphasis. I want it to stay that way. Doesn't mean civilian clothes shouldn't be in-game, or shouldn't be commonplace. But jesus, I'll never understand all the hatred surrounding military gear and so-called "tacticool" items. I mean, for god's sake, they're neutral inanimate items they didn't beat up your mother.

 

Military clothes, fine with me.

 

Everyone having a tacticool gun and enough magazines to take out a martian invasion, not fine with me.

 

I don't see any reason why bullets shouldn't be absolute gold. The tension it adds is great, when you have a half-filled magazine in your 1911 and nothing on standby, or when your magnum has 2 loaded in. You are forced to make your shots matter, and you are much more careful when it comes to using those rounds.

 

Making it so anyone can go to a military base and find a rifle with two mags that they can use to spray and pray for the rest of their short life is silly.

 

Add tacticool guns, and tacticool gear, but make it rare, and make the ammo rarer...

[Whyherro123 2283]

Military clothes, fine with me.

 

Everyone having a tacticool gun and enough magazines to take out a martian invasion, not fine with me.

 

I don't see any reason why bullets shouldn't be absolute gold. The tension it adds is great, when you have a half-filled magazine in your 1911 and nothing on standby, or when your magnum has 2 loaded in. You are forced to make your shots matter, and you are much more careful when it comes to using those rounds.

 

Making it so anyone can go to a military base and find a rifle with two mags that they can use to spray and pray for the rest of their short life is silly.

 

Add tacticool guns, and tacticool gear, but make it rare, and make the ammo rarer...

I have no problem with there being plenty of clothing, equipment, and other gear around. It is realistic, and hell, the other day, I helped a friend clear out his cousins (he moved) house. We found damn near enough clothing for every player on a 40-person server to have a change of clothes!

 

However, bullets most definitely should be rarer. Just yesterday, I found 60 .357 revolver rounds. 60 goddamn bullets. In 5 minutes of searching the southern part of Berezino. 

I was already carrying 30, so I dumped the 60 in a bush alongside the road as I travelled back to Dolina.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Whyherro123

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

I have no problem with there being plenty of clothing, equipment, and other gear around. It is realistic, and hell, the other day, I helped a friend clear out his cousins (he moved) house. We found damn near enough clothing for every player on a 40-person server to have a change of clothes!

 

However, bullets most definitely should be rarer. Just yesterday, I found 60 .357 revolver rounds. 60 goddamn bullets. In 5 minutes of searching the southern part of Berezino. 

I was already carrying 30, so I dumped the 60 in a bush alongside the road as I travelled back to Dolina.

 

This is where the game stops me from playing.

 

I have no reason to conserve my ammo because its fucking everywhere. The only thing that is rare are pistol magazines, which only spawn in military bases for some random reason.

 

Its frustrating when your 'apocalypse survival game' throws you so much ammunition you feel like you are playing Payday 2 with a guy who has his ammo bag stuff leveled up all the damn way.

[Whyherro123 2283]

This is where the game stops me from playing.

 

I have no reason to conserve my ammo because its fucking everywhere. The only thing that is rare are pistol magazines, which only spawn in military bases for some random reason.

 

Its frustrating when your 'apocalypse survival game' throws you so much ammunition you feel like you are playing Payday 2 with a guy wpaniho has his ammo bag stuff leveled up all the damn way.

Exactly.

To me, as someone who is trained in wilderness survival and buschcraft, "survival" is not "build a shelter, treat drinking water, trap animals". All that is only skills learned and time spent. Survival is fear, survival is want, survival is panic, survival is decision-making to the utmost extreme.

I want to have to ponder, " hmm, do I shoot this deer with my last buckshot shell, to have something substantial to eat tonight, or do it save it to defend myself from a zombie or a hostile survivor?" "Do I go into that town to look for medicine, and risk getting killed by a zombie or a person?" Not YOLO-running through a major city because the spawn is 5 minutes down the beach.

I also want to have traps implemented, so I don't have to waste my time hunting for small game, like rabbits or squirrels. People not in the know don't seem to realize that traps actually have a very low success rate, (my rate is about 10%, and I live in an area where there has been an EXPLOSION in the rabbit population). You can set up 6 or more traps, and come back to them in the morning to find that not a one has been triggered.That is why you set up so many along different animal runs, to improve your chances of catching something. That is why I switched to carrying 2 large-sized rat-traps in my kit, 100% success rate!

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I want to have to ponder, " hmm, do I shoot this deer with my last buckshot shell, to have something substantial to eat tonight, or do it save it to defend myself from a zombie or a hostile survivor?" "Do I go into that town to look for medicine, and risk getting killed by a zombie or a person?" Not YOLO-running through a major city because the spawn is 5 minutes down the beach.

Naw man.  You just gotta server hop to an empty server and fill up on phat lewtz.  That's real surviving.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Naw man.  You just gotta server hop to an empty server and fill up on phat lewtz.  That's real surviving.

This is why players should be locked to a server.

[napalmdog 71]

This is where the game stops me from playing.

 

I have no reason to conserve my ammo because its fucking everywhere. The only thing that is rare are pistol magazines, which only spawn in military bases for some random reason.

 

Its frustrating when your 'apocalypse survival game' throws you so much ammunition you feel like you are playing Payday 2 with a guy who has his ammo bag stuff leveled up all the damn way.

I imagine this will change as it goes along. One of the possibilities is there will be 8 different rifles with a few shared ammunition types and even fewer magazines. Sorting through it will be hell...

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

This is why players should be locked to a server.

I'm with you 100% but sadly, this won't happen.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

If anything, there'd be tons of pristine clothing left behind in drawers and closets, as it's not really an essential item. Taking your entire wardrobe with you isn't necessarily the first thing on most folk's mind.

 

Military gear is a facet of DayZ, and always has been. It's always been a feature, even an emphasis. I want it to stay that way. Doesn't mean civilian clothes shouldn't be in-game, or shouldn't be commonplace. But jesus, I'll never understand all the hatred surrounding military gear and so-called "tacticool" items. I mean, for god's sake, they're neutral inanimate items they didn't beat up your mother.

 

 

Yeah but not military gear it would all get used.

Unless the military somehow didn't know the zombies were around and got attacked in their sleep which would be ridiculous, most of it would be locked up or on dead soldiers.

 

Military gear is just too easy to get and is the best stuff to wear, it should be difficult to get not standard as I said plus more military gear just puts emphasis on making it a war game.

 

Why not hiking gear? You get the backpack and boots and that's it hiking sets would be cool.

[Katana67 2907]

Yeah but not military gear it would all get used.

Unless the military somehow didn't know the zombies were around and got attacked in their sleep which would be ridiculous, most of it would be locked up or on dead soldiers.

 

Military gear is just too easy to get and is the best stuff to wear, it should be difficult to get not standard as I said plus more military gear just puts emphasis on making it a war game.

 

Why not hiking gear? You get the backpack and boots and that's it hiking sets would be cool.

 

Why not all gear?

 

I agree that it's too easy to get "military" gear, but that's only an issue if it provides an advantage. It's a balance issue (something that has yet to be addressed), not an aesthetic/feeling/setting issue. Has nothing to do with whether or not the gear is used by a "military."

 

And no, it doesn't make it a "war" game... because there's no war in it. Military gear has peacetime uses, and a multi-billion dollar worldwide marketplace is a testament to that.

 

Just look at the Ukraine. It's about as close as we're going to get in the real-world to a "zombie apocalypse" in terms of instability and conflict (Yes, there are other more extreme examples... see Chechnya, Syria, and most conflicts in Africa). Yet military gear is commonplace outside of official military channels. Because, in the absence of a military, folks will loot/raid military installations (hence why most separatists/rebels/whatevers are equipped with gear taken from Ukrainian national guard depots). Not to mention the "military surplus store" is a thing.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "used" when you say "military gear would get used." There's only so many weapons a soldier can carry, there's only so many LBVs a soldier can wear. They have surpluses built into most logistical supply trains in modern militaries. Plus, if there are zombies knocking down your door... I doubt you'd be all "Nooo! Grab as many Tactical Vests as you can boys! They's a-comin'!" Stuff would be left behind.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Katana67

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I'm not sure what you mean by "used" when you say "military gear would get used." There's only so many weapons a soldier can carry, there's only so many LBVs a soldier can wear. They have surpluses built into most logistical supply trains in modern militaries. Plus, if there are zombies knocking down your door... I doubt you'd be all "Nooo! Grab as many Tactical Vests as you can boys! They's a-comin'!" Stuff would be left behind.

 

I mean the stuff that's not locked up, it would get put on in those barracks there wouldn't be any clothing besides any civ stuff the soldier had.

 

Unless the zombies simultaneously attacked every base in the dead of night undetected every uniform not in storage except maybe a couple would just be used, not left in obvious places anyway.

Or actually there could be a laundry room full of stuff depending on the size of the base but the actual military bases look like they were put up quick.

It would be stupid to have laundry rooms full of gear for sure but they'd probably be there in real life, so going for authenticity it'd be ridiculously easy to get that gear and take any challenge out of it.

 

If military zombies come in hordes and were way harder to kill than normal ones then I wouldn't mind it, at least if someone was geared up with it I know they probably had to work for it.

 

 

And it does make it a war game because camo has no use other than for PVP and that's what people get it for, to be camouflaged(who would have thought)

Zombies see you no matter what you wear so it's only purpose is to hide from players, if civilian gear is 99% of what you'd find people would be forced to be obvious targets and maybe think twice about sitting sniping innocents.

[Katana67 2907]

And it does make it a war game because camo has no use other than for PVP and that's what people get it for, to be camouflaged(who would have thought)

Zombies see you no matter what you wear so it's only purpose is to hide from players, if civilian gear is 99% of what you'd find people would be forced to be obvious targets and maybe think twice about sitting sniping innocents.

 

PvP =/= military warfare. DayZ isn't a "war" game, and having "military" gear doesn't make it one. It doesn't deal with warfare, period.

 

People will still kill folk in DayZ whether they're wearing a tuxedo or a tactical vest.

 

Camouflage certainly helps in PvP, but so do firearms... so does everything in DayZ. Simply because it's single-purpose doesn't change anything.

 

You appear to be muddling three very distinct issues - the aesthetics of "military/civilian" gear, the balance of the characteristics offered by "military" gear (i.e. storage space, camouflage, etc.), and the desire for more challenging zombies.

[Jamz 253]

I tend to use military gear at the moment in the SA for two reasons: it generally has the most inventory slots and the camo is good for avoiding detection by players. I'd like more dark civilian clothing with equal inv spaces to military gear to allow me to appear less hostile though.

 

In reality however, wearing military gear would be a very bad idea. The camouflage would likely be unnecessary against the undead as they would probably notice movement rather than discern prey by appearance ie. if you were dressed in any darker colours and far enough away but not moving it would probably have the same affect as full camo. Secondarily, if military forces happened upon you they would probably shoot you on sight as a deserter, looter or criminal. Normal people would probably wear normal clothes, possibly looking more like tramps, rather than military gear they could only have stolen from the army or taken from a soldier - either dead or alive. Someone dressed in civvy gear, even with a gun, may encourage soldiers and armed groups to ask questions rather than fire.

 

Looks great in the films but would just be increasing the threat to your survival imo.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I tend to use military gear at the moment in the SA for two reasons: it generally has the most inventory slots and the camo is good for avoiding detection by players. I'd like more dark civilian clothing with equal inv spaces to military gear to allow me to appear less hostile though.

 

In reality however, wearing military gear would be a very bad idea. The camouflage would likely be unnecessary against the undead as they would probably notice movement rather than discern prey by appearance ie. if you were dressed in any darker colours and far enough away but not moving it would probably have the same affect as full camo. 

You're doing it wrong then.  This game is about pvp.  Hoorah.  ArmaZ ftw!!!

[Jamz 253]

You're doing it wrong then.  This game is about pvp.  Hoorah.  ArmaZ ftw!!!

 

Quite.

 

But then, everyone is able to determine the nature of their pvp, often when/if it's even required.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I tend to use military gear at the moment in the SA for two reasons: it generally has the most inventory slots and the camo is good for avoiding detection by players. I'd like more dark civilian clothing with equal inv spaces to military gear to allow me to appear less hostile though.

 

In reality however, wearing military gear would be a very bad idea. The camouflage would likely be unnecessary against the undead as they would probably notice movement rather than discern prey by appearance ie. if you were dressed in any darker colours and far enough away but not moving it would probably have the same affect as full camo. Secondarily, if military forces happened upon you they would probably shoot you on sight as a deserter, looter or criminal. Normal people would probably wear normal clothes, possibly looking more like tramps, rather than military gear they could only have stolen from the army or taken from a soldier - either dead or alive. Someone dressed in civvy gear, even with a gun, may encourage soldiers and armed groups to ask questions rather than fire.

 

Looks great in the films but would just be increasing the threat to your survival imo.

But....why?

A LOT of people own milspec/milsurp equipment. It is relatively comfortable, wear-resistant, etc (all of this has been outlined before).

Military units wear patches/unit blazons. Civilians don't. Makes it easy to identify a non-soldier.

[IronCross 78]

You're doing it wrong then.  This game is about pvp.  Hoorah.  ArmaZ ftw!!!

Hey dude. If you wanna RP as a survivalist hippie who hates anything military, go for it. Me, I'm gonna be geared to the hilt, and I have great SA. I'll see you before you see me, and I will shoot to kill, threat or not. That's survival. And as long as the game remains a loot then shoot exercise, that's what those of us who are right brain dominant, logical creatures will do.

Edited June 8, 2014 by theroad64

[Jamz 253]

But....why?

A LOT of people own milspec/milsurp equipment. It is relatively comfortable, wear-resistant, etc (all of this has been outlined before).

Military units wear patches/unit blazons. Civilians don't. Makes it easy to identify a non-soldier.

 

Throughout the majority of the world, very very few people have access to military gear actually. In such a situation as this many military/police units would potentially be cut off and operating independently to a degree, not to mention very edgy and nervous as it's the 'apocalypse'. groups of armed people in camouflage who they didn't know would I imagine make them very suspicious whereas armed civilians maybe not so much. 

 

My point here is that as cool as it is wearing milspec gear, it would have practical downsides in this specific and unique situation. You have to see the big picture here, everything has changed in the world so it's not all about hiding in bushes and sniping people anymore if you want to survive. In the game of course, it's a very different kettle of camo fish.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Throughout the majority of the world, very very few people have access to military gear actually. In such a situation as this many military/police units would potentially be cut off and operating independently to a degree, not to mention very edgy and nervous as it's the 'apocalypse'. groups of armed people in camouflage who they didn't know would I imagine make them very suspicious whereas armed civilians maybe not so much. 

 

My point here is that as cool as it is wearing milspec gear, it would have practical downsides in this specific and unique situation. You have to see the big picture here, everything has changed in the world so it's not all about hiding in bushes and sniping people anymore if you want to survive. In the game of course, it's a very different kettle of camo fish.

And this is were the build up of frustration is in a sandbox game.   Play how you want but it still comes down to numbers and min/maxing.  Unless the developers can figure out a way to make pvp equally balanced to survival and in a sense pve, this game will always be lopsided until mods come out and the community gets segregated.  This may not be so bad assuming there is a large enough player base to support multiple aspects of gameplay.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Caboose187

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I will shoot to kill, threat or not. That's survival. And as long as the game remains a loot then shoot exercise, that's what those of us who are right brain dominant, logical creatures will do.

 

No it isn't...

That's PVP/KOS douchebaggery in a game.

In real life you'd be an absolute retard to shoot anyone who could be one of the last people alive, or just anyway unless you're some badass sharpshooter the person probably has friends that will destroy you and even they were good people you just shot one of them like a fool.

An intelligent and logical person would observe them and see what they're all about, if they find someone and shoot them ok they're bad dudes, avoid.

 

 

not to mention very edgy and nervous as it's the 'apocalypse'. groups of armed people in camouflage who they didn't know would I imagine make them very suspicious whereas armed civilians maybe not so much.

 

Yeah as you wouldn't know any callsigns either so in your confusion it would be obvious you've just stole the stuff maybe even killed for it.

 

And it still does encourage people in to making it a PVP war game camo enables people to snipe each other which is completely unnecessary, why would anyone do that in an apocalypse unless they were crazy or were already in some kind of battle? Nobody in their right mind would sit on top of a hill and just shoot any living people they saw.

But that's what people do in this game and camo lets them do it since they might as well be invisible.

[Jamz 253]

And this is were the build up of frustration is in a sandbox game.   Play how you want but it still comes down to numbers and min/maxing.  Unless the developers can figure out a way to make pvp equally balanced to survival and in a sense pve, this game will always be lopsided until mods come out and the community gets segregated.  This may not be so bad assuming there is a large enough player base to support multiple aspects of gameplay.

 

I hope that could be done whilst keeping the core DayZ experience and I do look forward to private vanilla servers. I'm also hoping that the more ideas added to the game will enable more variation of playstyles eventually. The mod seemed to be heading that way and now attention has switched to the SA, maybe it can happen there but I agree balancing is the key as it is in all multiplayer games. At the moment of course the SA isn't balanced but it's in constant flux as items and mechanics are added for testing by us, even an open sandbox game needs balancing regarding items.

[IronCross 78]

No it isn't...

That's PVP/KOS douchebaggery in a game.

I won't lose any sleep over your labeling of my playing to win.

In real life you'd be an absolute retard to shoot anyone who could be one of the last people alive, or just anyway unless you're some badass sharpshooter the person probably has friends that will destroy you and even they were good people you just shot one of them like a fool.

This is a game, not much I or any of us do mirrors what we would likely do in life.

An intelligent and logical person .

Your standard for intelligence and logic is off the reservation, pal.

 

 

 

[hombrecz 832]

Throughout the majority of the world, very very few people have access to military gear actually. 

 

You have to specify more what you by saying military gear? Camo clothing and various tactical gear (vests,camelbacks, gloves, knee protector and tons more) are common, you can find it in every army shop. Ofcourse majority might not be the best quallity, lots of might be actually cheap chinese knockoffs, but still usable. Those shops usually also sells crossbows, various types of knives and survival gear in general.

 

When talking about weapons, unless you are in America, those should be harder to find than tac clothing ofc.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Hombre

[IronCross 78]

You must not be familiar with Czech weapon laws.

[Jamz 253]

You have to specify more what you by saying military gear? Camo clothing and various tactical gear (vests,camelbacks, gloves, knee protector and tons more) are common, you can find it in every army shop. Ofcourse majority might not be the best quallity, lots of might be actually cheap chinese knockoffs, but still usable. Those shops usually also sells crossbows, various types of knives and survival gear in general.

 

When talking about weapons, unless you are in America, those should be harder to find than tac clothing ofc.

 

I'm talking about proper military gear as you find in the game, not army surplus items (which even then are not commonly available in the vast majority of the world). Also, I'm not talking about 'survival' gear either like hiking boots etc, that is more common obviously but not weapons. I see some areas of America (and possibly Russia/parts of Eastern Europe) as exceptions where it may well be easier to find these things. But using all this gear would carry the same risk and the camouflage aspect of it relatively useless imo.