1.8.1 thoughts?

[kichilron 8550]

- Nutrition:  we *LOVE* the new nutrition mechanics, but we feel that the rate at which your hunger meter goes up is just a tad high.  So far we've found that we spend the entire night gathering food and eating it, and haven't yet really had a chance to get into much PvP or repair vehicles

 

 

We're aware of it and it's being worked on and some of it is fixed already.

 

 

 

 

- Exhaustion: I saw a post in the bug tracker pointing out how your player is constantly exhausted now, leading to massive amounts of gun sway.  Even getting up from prone makes my character exhausted and I can't aim with a sniper rifle.  Is this a bug or an intentional change?  If it's intentional, I get the intent but it is too far.  I hunt in real life, and I can walk or even run a dozen meters and still aim a rifle accurately.

 

 

Make sure to update to the latest Beta-Patch 124802 - we didn't change anything on the exhaustion.

[r4z0r49 4761]

- Nutrition: Just need to get it all working then start doing the tweaks.

- Exhaustion:  No this wasnt  an intentional change. This is controlled by the engine last i looked but ill need to do some more checking.

- Humanity: this system is so old now i think its time to swap it all together.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

[BC_Hawke 276]

- Humanity: this system is so old now i think its time to swap it all together.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

I'd love to see this system tweaked and improved, but whatever you do, please don't lose it all together.  Though many people criticize it, I think the humanity system adds so much to the game.  It offers incentive to choose different styles of gameplay.  It has a persistence factor which is congruent with the themes of this game.  It adds so much to player interactions.  It gives you a reason to hold people up and/or approach them rather than just blowing them away from 500m with a sniper rifle without reason.  

[Borges (DayZ) 40]

 

- Exhaustion: I saw a post in the bug tracker pointing out how your player is constantly exhausted now, leading to massive amounts of gun sway.  Even getting up from prone makes my character exhausted and I can't aim with a sniper rifle.  Is this a bug or an intentional change?  If it's intentional, I get the intent but it is too far.  I hunt in real life, and I can walk or even run a dozen meters and still aim a rifle accurately.

 

 

I'm getting this too. It's pretty annoying and unplayable. Run 10 steps and i'm 100% exhausted.

[malau 11]

The more I play it, the more I like it. I haven't played Vanilla in years too.

 

 

Afew things......

 

- The zeds often seem to hit you when they are way, way out of arms reach. They often hit you without playing an attack animation, especially when running.

 

- The food system, I can't say as I understand it ? I died of starvation because the game said I was too full to eat and spat my food out. IE I had gorged old Dayz style earlier in the game, consequently the game refused to let me eat any more, and my plate icon eventually emptied and I died (despite being "too full to eat").

 

- When you faint / pass out and come round and you have a melee weapon or crossbow then you have to tolerate the long, long animation from empty hands to weapon in hands, which is certain death if zeds are around.

 

- Chopping small pine trees and cancelling after first pile sometimes leaves said pile unselectable because it's inside the radius of the branches.

 

- Can't seem to chop trees down with axe in hand as a melee weapon (perhaps this was never a feature though ?)

 

- What use is the PVC box ? Sheet Music ? Blank Paper ?

 

- Machete / Bat / Axe range seems a tad too short range given the zeds speed and strength

 

- Recombining crossbow quivers forces you to reload (doesn't make sense because the loaded bolt is not in the quiver, it's in the crossbow)

 

- Can't cut wood into crossbow bolts (maybe i'm getting confused with Origins or something here though ?)

[kichilron 8550]

- The food system, I can't say as I understand it ? I died of starvation because the game said I was too full to eat and spat my food out. IE I had gorged old Dayz style earlier in the game, consequently the game refused to let me eat any more, and my plate icon eventually emptied and I died (despite being "too full to eat").

 

Being worked on for the next patch.

 

 

- Can't seem to chop trees down with axe in hand as a melee weapon (perhaps this was never a feature though ?)

 

Never was on the mod.

 

 

- What use is the PVC box ? Sheet Music ? Blank Paper ?

 

Can't use it for anything (yet).

 

 

- Recombining crossbow quivers forces you to reload (doesn't make sense because the loaded bolt is not in the quiver, it's in the crossbow)

 

That's an engine limitation, as it removes the existing one and gives you a new one back. No way around that, I am afraid.

 

 

- Machete / Bat / Axe range seems a tad too short range given the zeds speed and strength

 

The attackrange of the zeds is still being tweaked.

 

 

- Can't cut wood into crossbow bolts (maybe i'm getting confused with Origins or something here though ?)

 

Make sure to open your craftmenu. You can craft arrows from feathers and wood.

 

 

- Chopping small pine trees and cancelling after first pile sometimes leaves said pile unselectable because it's inside the radius of the branches.

 

Make sure not to stand inside the tree whilst chopping. You can be a bit away from it, that way you don't lose the wood. Same limitation as with tents, where if you place them inside trees you can't access them.

Edited June 7, 2014 by kichilron
Aunt Edit.

[Borges (DayZ) 40]

What about exhaustion? You can't move even 5 steps without being fully exhausted, it's game breaking.

 

MORPHINE DOES NOT FIX THE ISSUE.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Borges

[BC_Hawke 276]

I just wanted to add some more feedback after playing all weekend.  Again, *can't* stress it enough, this update is FANTASTIC!  Really brings DayZ back to it's roots!  I'm enjoying the fact that elements like hunting, cooking, and crafting are actually useful now and in some cases a necessity.  I love the changes to the infected campsites, and the fact that you can loot tents and pack them up.  I love that you really have to be wary of zombies now, and I find myself using my M9SD a lot more frequently.  I'm also a huge fan of what you've done to limit the lifetime of tools like hatches, knives, matchboxes, etc.  We now find ourselves actually looting towns rather than just passing by them.  This gives it a genuine apocalyptic feel, yet avoids crossing the line to be tedious.  It really doesn't feel like a grind similar to so many other games.  The sense of fear, isolation, and the necessity to work to stay alive is finally back, and the game feels so much more complete.

 

I wanted to amend something I said in my first response to 1.8.1.  I said that I felt the hunger meter goes up too high.  While it can be a struggle for fresh spawns that don't have the necessary tools to hunt and cook, I'm finding that I *really* do like the necessity to gather food and keep my character healthy.  If you do change it, *PLEASE* don't change it drastically.  It's really change the game for the better to need to hunt animals and cook fresh meat.  I can't ever remember being so overjoyed to see a cow in an open field in DayZ.  :)

 

Either way, keep up the good work.  I'd really like to see a revival in the vanilla DayZ player base.  I honestly think 1.8.1 offers so much of what the SA crowd likes about the game.

[r4z0r49 4761]

What about exhaustion? You can't move even 5 steps without being fully exhausted, it's game breaking.

 

MORPHINE DOES NOT FIX THE ISSUE.

 

Its being looked into no need for the caps. When its fixed im sure you will see a post about it.

[Borges (DayZ) 40]

Pardon me, it's been a while since I had a proper dayz fix if you know what I mean.

[Borges (DayZ) 40]

I will like to add that I love the clothing being in military spawns. +1

[Ransurian 23]

My only gripe is the fact that it's still basically impossible to consistently defend oneself with a melee weapon while outdoors without getting hit once or twice. Doesn't matter if you're a Korean twitch gamer bred from a stock of champions -- you're going to get hit a lot without a firearm and plenty of ammo. In this respect, I think the SA's zombie behavior is better by leaps and bounds.

 

Aside from that, I like everything else. It's still easy enough for a well-equipped player to survive in the long term by simply stocking up on matches, hatches, and the like as opposed to keeping just one instance of each item, but it's definitely a positive step toward making geared players less perpetually self-sufficient, which inevitably leads to boredom.

[Borges (DayZ) 40]

My only gripe is the fact that it's still basically impossible to consistently defend oneself with a melee weapon while outdoors without getting hit once or twice. Doesn't matter if you're a Korean twitch gamer bred from a stock of champions -- you're going to get hit a lot without a firearm and plenty of ammo. In this respect, I think the SA's zombie behavior is better by leaps and bounds.

 

Aside from that, I like everything else. It's still easy enough for a well-equipped player to survive in the long term by simply stocking up on matches, hatches, and the like as opposed to keeping just one instance of each item, but it's definitely a positive step toward making geared players less perpetually self-sufficient, which inevitably leads to boredom.

 

It's being worked on for the 1.8.2 patch. Personally I stopped playing until 1.8.2 is released. It's kind of a waste of time until this exhaustion and zombie attack range is fixed.

 

Do you guys have an estimated release date for these fixes?

Edited June 12, 2014 by Borges

[Ransurian 23]

It's being worked on for the 1.8.2 patch. Personally I stopped playing until 1.8.2 is released. It's kind of a waste of time until this exhaustion and zombie attack range is fixed.

 

Do you guys have an estimated release date for these fixes?

Zed attack range isn't a problem, but the fact that they're capable of warping to the player to deliver a blow before he or she can even react certainly is. It's impossible to outmaneuver zombies in the mod. They're basically instant hitscan robots the instant you're within melee range, regardless of their facing relative to the player. I can creep up to within melee range of a zombie, but if he happens to detect me, he's going to turn around and smack me within the span of a nanosecond.

 

Seriously -- it was, is, and probably always will be pointless to expect melee weapons to work consistently in outdoor settings against zombies. They're simply too fast and glitchy for the player to react to them. You will get hit, because you're fighting against hitscan AI that instantly zaps you if you're within a certain range. It's fucking stupid. Zombies need to be tougher to kill, but they should be incapable of "zapping" players as they do now.

 

With that said, I'll give all my beans to whoever posts a video of themselves killing more than a handful of zombies -- outdoors -- using any melee weapon -- in the mod without getting hit themselves.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Ransurian

[Yuval 221]

I like the humanity system, it gives dayz an 'arcade' twist. The fact that some players will set a goal for themselves such as being a hero or having 10k humanity which takes a long period of time is awesome.

 

I'd love to see something like the standalone's papers system where you could write down stuff.

 

It would be nice to see new vehicles in the mod, that fits the post-apocalyptic terrain. Maybe a modeler could make a nice looking hippy van wish some kush in the trunk  B)

[Borges (DayZ) 40]

Zed attack range isn't a problem, but the fact that they're capable of warping to the player to deliver a blow before he or she can even react certainly is. It's impossible to outmaneuver zombies in the mod. They're basically instant hitscan robots the instant you're within melee range, regardless of their facing relative to the player. I can creep up to within melee range of a zombie, but if he happens to detect me, he's going to turn around and smack me within the span of a nanosecond.

 

Seriously -- it was, is, and probably always will be pointless to expect melee weapons to work consistently in outdoor settings against zombies. They're simply too fast and glitchy for the player to react to them. You will get hit, because you're fighting against hitscan AI that instantly zaps you if you're within a certain range. It's fucking stupid. Zombies need to be tougher to kill, but they should be incapable of "zapping" players as they do now.

 

With that said, I'll give all my beans to whoever posts a video of themselves killing more than a handful of zombies -- outdoors -- using any melee weapon -- in the mod without getting hit themselves.

 

Yes the hitscan issue is definitely a problem and usually you'll get hit running by zombies no where near them. I notice this most when I run by them on the side. However that is avoidable once you start seeing how it works. Zombie attack range IS a problem. This is why you keep getting hit and can't reach the zombies in a situation that they're running straight for you, because their attack range is way too far. In an optimal situation if you're getting chased, if you turn around and try and melee one they WILL hit you. These seem like two different problems. Meleeing down zombies out doors was easy in 1.8.0.3, once they tweak their range it will be easier in 1.8.2 hopefully. However I agree that zombies hitting you randomly is a bigger problem. 

Edited June 14, 2014 by Borges

[BC_Hawke 276]

 I'll give all my beans to whoever posts a video of themselves killing more than a handful of zombies -- outdoors -- using any melee weapon -- in the mod without getting hit themselves.

Without getting hit at all?  Do you want this to become a super-easy-mode casual shooter?  A lot of people are complaining about the hit range and "warping" of zombies in 1.8.1, but personally I really like that they're actually a challenge now.  You *have* to be careful around them.  I'm all for the devs tweaking them further to make the hits more realistic, but I don't think people should complain that they can't simply run in a straight line away from them like they used to.  The zombies should be a serious threat in a zombie game.

 

As for killing multiple zombies without taking a hit, remember that when outside, the zombies are pretty much like the infected in 28 days later.  Do you really think you could take on several of these infected without getting hit...using only a melee weapon?

 

Edited June 15, 2014 by Bullet_Catcher

[Sil3nt_Pr0digy 2]

I have a few positive and negative things to say regarding the 1.8.1 patch. Some of my concerns have been acknowledged, while some seem to have been ignored, I will include the things that have been addressed for wholeness sake.

 

Positives:
I like the blood trail system, new nutrition system, blood groups, weapon attachment system (although I have yet to test it and will address why shortly), along with a lot of the SA-like mechanics that have been implemented.

 

Negatives:
The new blood bag system. I will go into detail as to why I believe this current system is flawed. There are standard blood bags, (bloodBagOPOS, bloodBagAPOS, bloodBagBPOS, bloodBagABPOS) as well as the empty blood bags (emptyBloodBag). In order to use the empty blood bags, you must first drain blood from yourself (totaling 4k) to create a whole blood bag of your blood group (wholeBloodBagAPOS, wholeBloodBagBPOS, wholeBloodBagABPOS, wholeBloodBagOPOS) so that you can give yourself 4k blood later. This mechanic works wonderfully. However, the standard blood bags can not be used by yourself, and instead require the assistance of another player. Using one of the blood bags gives you full blood. Both require transfusion kits in order to use. It seems silly that the only bloodbags that are self-consumable require the player to first drain themselves of blood. I am more than happy with 4k per bloodbag when self-applied, as it still gives value to having another player bloodbag you, but enabling one blood bag to be self-consumed and preventing another seems a little silly. I would suggest adding the ability to self-consume a standard bloodbag for only 4k blood, same as a self-applied bloodbag. And I would like to see the ability to have another player apply a whole blood bag, perhaps at only 8k or even 12k. NOTE: This addition has removed the ability for servers to use standard self bloodbag scripts, and makes for more difficult implementation of fixes to attain previous levels of functionality.

 

The melee range of zombies as well as their amount of mobility and sight range (Already addressed as being worked on, will hopefully see it return to a reasonable level or perhaps even be configurable).

The removal of loot bias / ability for server admins to modify loot spawns. I consider this highly problematic, as I like to tailor my server's lootspawns for non-standard weapons, as well as non-standard spawning configurations, and the removal of this system without a proper replacement has gimped my server severely. Having AI with infinite ammo which are non-targeted by zombies that hunt players as well as zombies that can see players from an absurd distance makes for a extremely hostile server environment, this mixed with minimal lootspawns, and inability to engage enemy AI without causing significant quantities of zombies to spawn is problematic.

 

 

I run a private 10 man server, and I tailor the server to best fit with my players. I was really excited to see the amount of improvement implemented in this patch, as well as a lot of nice features being added, however the current state of implementation has caused such blatant issues that I very well may have to revert back to previous patches to maintain functionality. I would really like to see the negatives that I have posted to be addressed, and would be more than willing to explain my perspective further.

 

Without getting hit at all?  Do you want this to become a super-easy-mode casual shooter?  A lot of people are complaining about the hit range and "warping" of zombies in 1.8.1, but personally I really like that they're actually a challenge now.  You *have* to be careful around them.  I'm all for the devs tweaking them further to make the hits more realistic, but I don't think people should complain that they can't simply run in a straight line away from them like they used to.  The zombies should be a serious threat in a zombie game.

 

As for killing multiple zombies without taking a hit, remember that when outside, the zombies are pretty much like the infected in 28 days later.  Do you really think you could take on several of these infected without getting hit...using only a melee weapon?

Simply because you enjoy the playstyle of the current zombies does not mean that other players may be looking for the same gameplay experience. I would prefer that the game keep it's configurable spirit so that servers can exist that allow for players who want different experiences to enjoy themselves regardless. Forcing players to deal with problematic zombies and acting like they should just deal with it comes off as arrogant and ignorant of other's personal preferences. I would like to think that as a community we can agree that different players see different things in DayZ, and that we should be respectful of their personal preferences, not trying to imply that a different gameplay style is somehow inferior.

 

EDIT: removed YT vid.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Sil3nt_Pr0digy

[BC_Hawke 276]

Well, just to clarify, my response to Ransurian was in regards to his idea that you should be able to kill multiple zombies without taking a single hit.  When you take it that far, what's the point of the zombies?

 

To be honest, though, I think the game's configurable spirit has been detrimental to the spirit DayZ itself.  Certainly there are variables that can and should be accessed by server admins such as timezone, 1st/3rd person, crosshairs, but the ability to change every aspect of the game in a way that makes it much more akin to Grand Theft Auto or Call of Duty has really destroyed the reputation of DayZ, which started out as an unforgiving hardcore zombie apocalypse survival game.  I think all the radical changes should have been left to mods like Overwatch and Epoch rather than allowed on private hives.  Remember, DayZ was labeled the anti-game.  It's meant to be unforgiving and present a significant challenge.  That all went out the window the moment that private hive hosts started the campaign to dominate player population by adding tons of vehicles and weapons, getting rid of night time, etc.

 

You mentioned a couple times that things shouldn't be forced on players, but the very nature of a "hardcore" requires that you force things upon players.  What if someone could go up to an old Pac-Man arcade machine and push a button that makes it so that Pac-Man can always eat the ghosts when he runs into them?  Was there a setting in Super Mario Brothers that allowed Mario to start with fireballs?  Look at the success of the Dark Souls series.  Would Ghosts 'n Goblins or Castlevania have the reputation they have if there was a super-easy-mode option at the start menu?  I know, I know, open world sandbox multiplayer games are different than arcade or console games, but I feel that DayZ lost it's claim to being a hardcore survival game when servers started altering all the settings.

 

Again, I think other mods are the place for easier settings.  By all means, go ahead and create a mod with all the custom settings you want.  Nobody has a problem with that.  I'm not being ignorant or arrogant, I just loved the entire idea of DayZ back when it was a level playing field across all servers, and I think the game has become compromised by all the changes people have made to it.  I'm not really sure why anyone would pick this game up and be upset that it's "too hard".  It's billed as a hardcore survival game.  Do people pick up Need for Speed and complain that the cars drive too fast?  Do they pick up Hello Kitty Loving Life With Friends and say it should be less cute?

[r4z0r49 4761]

@Sil3nt_Pr0digy

 

The bloodbag system was limited and will remain limited for the short term while we iron out bugs its a new system for 1.8.1 it will take a little time to iron out issues with it.

 

Loot bias >< This was just a random number to allow more loot piles to spawn inside buildings it was seen to be unfair system to be used on the hive so it was removed.

 

There is a pretty big reason we don't wont to allow 500 hundred different settings and tweaks on servers and it's been mentioned in this forum maybe a few hundred times over the past two years, It's the hive your cant have a central system with servers running 300 different settings until the hive is dropped (not our decision) we can not support every setting. We do what we can for admins but we still must stick to the hive rules as much as we can. (This is not our decision)

 

Thanks for the feedback

[Borges (DayZ) 40]

Cooked meat heals WAY too much. 

Edited June 17, 2014 by Borges

[BC_Hawke 276]

Is there any known reason that in 1.8.0, when a blood transfusion would fail due to the glitch (transfusion successful pops up immediately), that the blood bag would still be in your inventory, but in 1.8.1 the bag and the transfusion kit disappear? I was fine with the bug before, all that was required was a relog or eating food to get around it; however in 1.8.1, we're losing a *lot* of bags and kits to the bug.

 

On a side note, I'm finding that I gain *very* little humanity when transfusing, whether the recipient gained very little or a whole lot of blood.  I haven't done the exact math, but I'm gaining less than 100 points even when a lot of blood is transfused.

[r4z0r49 4761]

Is there any known reason that in 1.8.0, when a blood transfusion would fail due to the glitch (transfusion successful pops up immediately), that the blood bag would still be in your inventory, but in 1.8.1 the bag and the transfusion kit disappear? I was fine with the bug before, all that was required was a relog or eating food to get around it; however in 1.8.1, we're losing a *lot* of bags and kits to the bug.

 

On a side note, I'm finding that I gain *very* little humanity when transfusing, whether the recipient gained very little or a whole lot of blood.  I haven't done the exact math, but I'm gaining less than 100 points even when a lot of blood is transfused.

 

Because its not working as it should be.

 

Humanity given is 25 this is incorrect it should be 250.

[r4z0r49 4761]

Cooked meat heals WAY too much. 

 

All food that gives blood should have a diminishing effect so the more your eat the less you gain in short periods of time. This has been readded to 1.8.2

[Sil3nt_Pr0digy 2]

@Sil3nt_Pr0digy

 

The bloodbag system was limited and will remain limited for the short term while we iron out bugs its a new system for 1.8.1 it will take a little time to iron out issues with it.

 

Loot bias >< This was just a random number to allow more loot piles to spawn inside buildings it was seen to be unfair system to be used on the hive so it was removed.

 

There is a pretty big reason we don't wont to allow 500 hundred different settings and tweaks on servers and it's been mentioned in this forum maybe a few hundred times over the past two years, It's the hive your cant have a central system with servers running 300 different settings until the hive is dropped (not our decision) we can not support every setting. We do what we can for admins but we still must stick to the hive rules as much as we can. (This is not our decision)

 

Thanks for the feedback

 

I fully understand why having loot bias and tweakable options on hive servers is problematic, however private hives make up the majority of existing servers.

I have already stated that my server is private hive, and the inability to use loot bias, as well as changing loot tables is extremely aggravating. Losing the ability to customize the server to the extent that I used to be able to just adds to that.

 

I can understand these changes in regards to the hive. However for private hives this patch imposes a lot of issues.

It seems that patches will not be designed with private hives in mind for quite some time, and as such I will be reverting my servers.