More civi weapons + weapon condition

[Kophka 109]

Military weapons are saturating a game that is supposed to be about starting with nothing and surviving day to day. With that thought in mind, I feel that the weapon system could be tweaked a bit. I understand that this is Alpha, and we have a LONG ways to go. Here's some things I'd like to see :

Change 1 : Change the availability of weapons. There needs to be far more bolt, lever, and semiauto weapons as compared to military burst and automatic weapons. Right now, the military grade weapons are just way to easy to obtain, and I can have a full automatic weapon with 10 minutes of spawning in on a new life. That makes them less desirable than they should be.

Change 2 : Make some more civilian weapons. I'm not sure how things are in the former Soviet Union, but here in the States, there are some popular firearms that would fit right into a zombie apocalypse game. 9mm and .45 caliber carbines, .223 semi-autos like the Ruger Ranch Rifle, large varieties of .30 caliber rifles like .30, 30-06, .308, in bolt action and semi auto, and pistol caliber lever actions such as .45 long colt and .357/.44 remington. I'm not a modeler, but there are large numbers of them in our community, and I'd be willing to bet that some of them would be delighted to know that their model is in this project.

Change 3 : Change the quality of weapons. I understand that this isn't implemented anywhere in Arma II (might not even be possible) but IRL, not everyone takes good care of their weapons. A percentage of the firearms we find should be dirty or been mishandled somewhere in their past. If you have a "dirty weapon", it should have a chance to misfire/ftf/fte. This should mostly apply to civilian gear, with military weapons being the most reliable and accurate. This returns them to holy grail status. I'm of two minds as to whether or not this "dirty" status should even be repairable with an item kit. Maybe it would make the game that much more gritty (hehe) to get stuck with one of those weapons for a while.

The yardstick of success or failure right now in Day Z is our gear. Changes like this will make finding rare loot a game changing, immersive feat, and add to the atmosphere of the game. There is a lot that will have to be done to support these changes, like finding a way to beat "server hopping" behavior to keep rare loot rare, but it would be a step in the right direction.

[Duckman404 37]

Change 2 : Make some more civilian weapons. I'm not sure how things are in the former Soviet Union' date=' but here in the States, there are some popular firearms that would fit right into a zombie apocalypse game. 9mm and .45 caliber carbines, .223 semi-autos like the Ruger Ranch Rifle, large varieties of .30 caliber rifles like .30, 30-06, .308, in bolt action and semi auto, and pistol caliber lever actions such as .45 long colt and .357/.44 remington. I'm not a modeler, but there are large numbers of them in our community, and I'd be willing to bet that some of them would be delighted to know that their model is in this project.

[/quote']

In the Eastern states, Mosin Nagant or Mauser based hunting rifles, double barreled shotguns, and .22 LR rifles would be the most common ones.

American cartridges like .30-30 or .30-06 are something I doubt would be very common, and I'm not sure but certain european states have hunting laws that require the use of calibers larger than .223 for large game.

Lever action rifles should not be common. They're popular in America because they were so common around the Wild West era, but in Russia and similar areas the common calibers will still be 7.62x39mm, 7.62x54mmR, and 5.45x39mm.

Rifles such as the SKS, the SVT-40, and the Mosin Nagant would be great inclusions in DayZ, especially with the possible reliability system.

A dirty SKS can slamfire off a whole 10 round magazine. A dirty SVT is prone to jamming, and the Mosin Nagant can easily develop a case of sticky bolt.

.22 LR rifles and handguns definitely need to be more common, but I'm not sure what types are popular over in eastern europe. The CZ 452 springs to mind, but that's about it.

Hell, a .22 revolver would be a great starting weapon.

That's not to mention a few pistols and SMGs that would be nice to see around Chernarus. The Tokarev TT-33, CZ 52, and PPSh-41 would make good inclusions; the 7.62x25mm cartridge works quite well against kevlar, but doesn't quite give the same amount of wounding, so it could perhaps perform better against military zeds and players (since they have kevlar vests), but be less powerful overall.

[leo235 2]

Weapons are too common and your solution is to introduce more weapons?

I mean yes, there should be all kinds of stuff so you always find new things, but the real SOLUTION is to reduce ammo or weapon spawns or at least separate them, like lots of ammo in warehouses but very little good ammo everywhere else

[Duckman404 37]

Weapons are too common and your solution is to introduce more weapons?

I mean yes' date=' there should be all kinds of stuff so you always find new things, but the real SOLUTION is to reduce ammo or weapon spawns or at least separate them, like lots of ammo in warehouses but very little good ammo everywhere else

[/quote']

Introduce a greater variety of weapons, yes. That does not necessarily mean increasing the amount of weapons available to the player.

Hell, if you're looking at it from a hardness perspective, right now it's easy enough to find the right ammo for your weapon: with more variety, there's less chance of finding the ammo type you need!

[dunnobe 3]

+1 for weapon jamming.

[leo235 2]

Weapons are too common and your solution is to introduce more weapons?

I mean yes' date=' there should be all kinds of stuff so you always find new things, but the real SOLUTION is to reduce ammo or weapon spawns or at least separate them, like lots of ammo in warehouses but very little good ammo everywhere else

[/quote']

Introduce a greater variety of weapons, yes. That does not necessarily mean increasing the amount of weapons available to the player.

Hell, if you're looking at it from a hardness perspective, right now it's easy enough to find the right ammo for your weapon: with more variety, there's less chance of finding the ammo type you need!

Yeah true too, but I personally would rather see more items that arent weapons.

[Kophka 109]

Weapons are too common and your solution is to introduce more weapons?

I mean yes' date=' there should be all kinds of stuff so you always find new things, but the real SOLUTION is to reduce ammo or weapon spawns or at least separate them, like lots of ammo in warehouses but very little good ammo everywhere else

[/quote']

My point is that MILITARY grade hardware is too common. Depending on the gun laws in the area, there could be a rusty bolt action or worn out revolver in every house. :)

[Nightchill 0]

I like the concept of this, though I don't know much about guns myself, so I can't provide details there. However, I do agree less military loot would be nice.

Actually, as an alternative or supplemental suggestion, ramp up the difficulty of places based on how good the quality of loot would be. I mean, a city for example, you'd expect mobs of zombies in the street, partly due to population to begin with, and partly because in such an event, you'd expect people, at least at first, trying to flock to where they'd perceive they'd have protection. Emergency set up shelters in cities, military bases because that's where the military is... Something where it would require serious teamwork, cunning, planning, or a mixture of all three, to even have a chance at the loot there. Perhaps a sliding scale of how many zombies can spawn when a player is near, based on the location? I wouldn't expect much from a small town in the mountains, but I'd expect a scene out of The Walking Dead (zombie population wise) in major population centers.

That alone I think would be a nice barrier to people getting all the superior gear too easily without at least banding up with other people.

One other thing I'd like to add in though, is that I think that any of these suggestions or changes, including the one's already put in by rocket (such as spawning without a pistol now) lose a lot of their impact without a purging of everyone's inventory or character to set people on an equal footing.

[t3sla 0]

You guys have to understand that the dayz dev team can't just create a bunch of weapons from scratch, they can only use the weapons from ArmA 2 and Operation Arrowhead iirc.

EDIT: Yeah, herp, not quite sure if this is true or not.

[Kophka 109]

You guys have to understand that the dayz dev team can't just create a bunch of weapons from scratch' date=' they can only use the weapons from ArmA 2 and Operation Arrowhead iirc.

[/quote']

I don't know if that's 100% true. The Zombies certainly aren't from Arma 2 and OA, and I'm pretty sure that loot like bottles, cans, hatchets, and crowbars aren't in A2 or OA. If you mean that it would be impossible to find models for new weapons, I submit http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1246&pid=100330#pid100330 for your approval. We have lots of community members that are really talented, and would probably die of joy to see their model used in this mod.

[Sawzall 0]

Weapons needing cleaning and oiling could be an interesting mechanic, with various malfunctions when it's too dirty.

[WhitewolfUK 13]

Good idea, I also thinking removing military loot from fire stations is a must.

[Kophka 109]

Weapons needing cleaning and oiling could be an interesting mechanic' date=' with various malfunctions when it's too dirty.

[/quote']

Weapons needing constant maintenance or gradually worsening condition might be overly complicated. BUT a system where a weapon has a chance to start off dirty (with a chance of misfire/malfunction) might be simple, gameplay wise. Maybe it's repairable, maybe it isn't, but when making the suggestion, I was envisioning a one-time deal, instead of something that has to be constantly monitored.

[Zantetzuken 0]

More civvie weapons would take the form of more melee based/scavenged junk type equipment imo.

If people really feel there is a problem with military grade hardware being too available, there is one effective solution I believe: Strictly limit the ammo supply. You'd get fewer DMR Sniper campers around Cherno and Electro if they had to run all the way back to the airfields to restock ammo I reckon, plus it'd be a huge time sink for them. True they might just switch to enfileds, but at least they'd lose the scope! :P

[federik21 42]

I understand your point of view.

But I think that in a zombie apocalipse, towns would be full of dead soldiers who had tried to stop the infection.

So, military weapons would be very common (more than hunting rifles, i could imagine douzens of civilians that used to go hunting, but in the other hand thousands of soldiers who have died fighting zeds).

The problem in this game is not the weapons, but the ammo, that regenerates switching servers.

It's going to be fixed in the next version, so it's not a problem.

But adding new weapons is always a good thing.

[dallas 5195]

Military equipment removed from deer stands.

Rusty versions of weapons, a bit like in Call of Juarez, if anyone remember.

Less available ammo.

[Kophka 109]

I understand your point of view.

But I think that in a zombie apocalipse' date=' towns would be full of dead soldiers who had tried to stop the infection.

So, military weapons would be very common (more than hunting rifles, i could imagine douzens of civilians that used to go hunting, but in the other hand thousands of soldiers who have died fighting zeds).

The problem in this game is not the weapons, but the ammo, that regenerates switching servers.

It's going to be fixed in the next version, so it's not a problem.

But adding new weapons is always a good thing.

[/quote']

The "limiting ammo" solution has been proposed quite a few times now, and definitely makes sense. I'm still hoping for a mechanic that allows you to carry boxes of ammo, that you have to fill your very limited number of magazines up with.

While there are air bases/military camps in the game, most of the time is spent wandering between villages and towns, with civilian barns and deerstands being the most easily accessible structures to loot. These places should be full of semi auto or manual action weapons. Excepting the "meta-gaming" solution of infinite loot respawns, in a Z-Day discussion/scenario, military grade hardware is going to be really hard for a "survivor" that washed up on the beach with nothing to get ahold of. I think that should be the case in-game, it makes sense and makes the game that much more immersive.

[LeOverlord 150]

I agree with this, whole heartily. Also maybe add more civilian clothes models, and maybe have the NAPA, Nationalist guerrilla uniform be a rare Civilian drop ( Its basically a camo hoody and balaclava ). But on that note I also believe Camo Clothes and Ghillie Suits should only spawn at military locations...

[Turnipski 3]

+1 for the weapon jamming. I personally think most weapons should start out dirty when they spawn and you should have to find equipment to clean them with. As far as I know in real life guns do deteriorate and need to be cleaned regularly even when being used. Imagine a weapon that had been left out on a deer stand for months. This would be a nice extra element to heighten the struggle for survival and give us even more to worry about.

Also would be great if weapons with attachable scopes/silencers no longer spawned and you had to find the pieces and put them together yourself. Would make your weapon feel even more special like this.

[darrkbeast 0]

I think there should be more melee weapons, thats it. Theres more then enough guns in the game, infact mabe to many. I started a new charater and with in 10 mins i had a handgun, axe, knife and my choice of a shotgun or bolt action rifle. Also I have enough ammo to last days, that should be dropped to. Give me more beans and matchs.

[Dr. Fever 7]

Pretty good thread. I made a similar one in the sig down there. I agree about toning down the military weapon spawns. I would also like to see some sort of reloading of the magazines. It would make the magazines themselves valuable, just like real life and would emphasize the differences between different weapons.

[trickkynickk 2]

More weapon virility would be nice i want to see more russian guns like the mosin and more guns that can share teh same type of ammo but the guns should be able to be cleaned by hand and gun parts would be a bit complicated to fix if it broke

[islandjack1 8]

I like the idea of a weapon misfiring or wearing out. I read in the forums that hardcore players want more realism, this would add to that.

Imagine lining up that perfect sniper shot and... click.