DayZ is a paradox game - Random thoughts

[Ken Bean 174]

I believe it wasn't. But it was temporary chaos. Now break down the infrastructure of one whole nation. When there is no one to react fast and no resources to start eliminating the damage, it will escalate into worse and worse.

See a situation which happens apocalyptic, meaning out of the blue, abrupt and with overall chaos is nothing a human mind can handle so easy especially when it means that everything what has been your life before has gone away and will never return. It's a massive struggle. Finding other people to group is the very first instinct and the first step to "go back to normal".

[Electi 149]

I do not know if i already posted it here, but just give that man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au3-hk-pXsM#t=43
BEANS LOTS OF BeANS!!!
P.S. For God's sake make that game more hardcore, more realistic, and complicated, lethal zombies,more zombies and make ammo so rare so ppl would not be using it vs other players, because they will need it to fight swarm of zombies.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Electi

[SGT. Kalme 106]

See a situation which happens apocalyptic, meaning out of the blue, abrupt and with overall chaos is nothing a human mind can handle so easy especially when it means that everything what has been your life before has gone away and will never return. It's a massive struggle. Finding other people to group is the very first instinct and the first step to "go back to normal".

 

That is exactly what I meant by saying people have lost the need for self-defence. That also means recognizing possible danger to defend yourself from.

 

For individual, normal is not being in a group. Normal is being alive. And you can take poison on that there are people who want what you have. Or are overly paranoid. Thinking all the people will group together, will plant potatoes and start the communities to rebuild is naive. In a first phases of chaos, people don't think about such things. They only think how to not die. Any option is suitable. And that is the first instinct.

 

While we can talk here till the end of the days, it is going too far away from original topic.

[Ken Bean 174]

That is exactly what I meant by saying people have lost the need for self-defence. That also means recognizing possible danger to defend yourself from.

 

For individual, normal is not being in a group. Normal is being alive. And you can take poison on that there are people who want what you have. Or are overly paranoid. Thinking all the people will group together, will plant potatoes and start the communities to rebuild is naive. In a first phases of chaos, people don't think about such things. They only think how to not die. Any option is suitable. And that is the first instinct.

 

While we can talk here till the end of the days, it is going too far away from original topic.

But some things just not gona work. That's the point. If everything would work then every survival strategy would succeed and everyone survives. That guy that in such situation just doesn't care his own ass, went up the hill and snipers away stranger people which didn't mean any harm to him may happen, but this just is not a concept that is gona work. It's just some crazy nonsense one may have seen in a movie or whatever.

Then some come and say: "That's the shit, that's how you do apocalypse." And the game went downstairs.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Ken Bean

[SGT. Kalme 106]

But some things just not gona work. That's the point. If everything would work then every survival strategy would succeed and everyone survives. That guy that in such situation just doesn't care his own ass, went up the hill and snipers away stranger people which didn't mean any harm to him may happen, but this just is not a concept that is gona work. It's just some crazy nonsense one may have seen in a movie or whatever.

Then some come and say: "That's the shit, that's how you do apocalypse." And the game went downstairs.

 

People are going to die. That is only true concept of apocalypse.

 

I don't think you understand the cruelty that human is capable of. Shooting someone from distance is very humane way to kill a person. And people do it. Along other options. And not just in a war.

[Ken Bean 174]

People are going to die. That is only true concept of apocalypse.

 

I don't think you understand the cruelty that human is capable of. Shooting someone from distance is very humane way to kill a person. And people do it. Along other options. And not just in a war.

War has a clear concept. The concept is to use brute weapon force to defeat the enemy. You seem to confuse this. Just being ultimate deadly and cruelty is not what makes you survive, this is a often used strategie in war to defeat the enemy (demotivation). It however is not standard in human interaction.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Ken Bean

[cuddly_rabbit 102]

After reading up on the last two pages, I could not help but chuckle a little. Funny where the innocent observations I posted evolved. :)

[gwartham 13]

After reading up on the last two pages, I could not help but chuckle a little. Funny where the innocent observations I posted evolved. :)

 

Yah, apparently people believe that somehow society will rebuild itself amongst the chaos of a ongoing and long lasting apocolypse, yet history has shown that even in the midst of a "minor catastrophe", rape and murder and general lawlessness happen, oh and war is strictly conventional.

 

These people will be the first to die.

Edited May 4, 2014 by gwartham

[[Outcasts]Massacre 121]

The game has even more viruses than the Z-virus. They are player created variations:

 

> the long range psychopath virus: he has to kill everything that moves before it gets into interaction range. It doesn't help his survival, he reduces the healthy population, wastes resources, attracts zombies and dies pitifully after a split-second of terror to someone rustling behind him.

 

I'll admit i suffer from the long range psycho virus.. It's rather hard to get rid of and requires lots of friends whispering encouraging words into my ear along the line of...

 

" awww don't bother it's a bambi " or " Damn dude stop killing everybody I want to.... * BANG * ... Goshdarnit, what did I just say? "

 

But you forgot my favorite virus it's the SAP virus aka Spray and Pray virus... It tends to manifest when people have a m4 and 60 round mags....

 

However sometimes I'm in a good mood and i'll actually attempt to communicate, for some odd reason it makes me feel good helping bambies out by giving them a gun and some ammo and watching them run off into the sunset towards certain doom knowing I gave them at least the ability to shoot themselfs....

 

Was it not for the fact that you can't commit suicide just yet... Oh well, sucks to be them I guess..

 

Ps, This post was toungue in cheek kinda joking. I'm actually quite a nice guy when I'm not shooting people.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Massacre

[[Outcasts]Massacre 121]

@ "Instinct and Human Behaviour Discussion":

Hm. For sure I personally wish that players' actions in this game would be closer to what real people living/dying in the the DayZ world would be like. 

But: That won't happen. It is still a computer game. And there are many many people who want it to stay - what I would describe as - "shallow" and judge as "unrewarding". Just my own opinion, though.

Discussing morality, social responsibility in a post-apocalyptic world, realism of self-preservation, realistic survival chance distribution for aggressive behaviour, etc with players who play the game as a high stakes PvP and whose motivation can range from boredom to grieving, from the wish to become really good to whatever it might be... It will not work. Even if you got all the scientific data right, it would not work because a game (luckily) is far from reality.

 

I don't als think that our instincts is what guides our ingame actions. Therefore the distance between game reality and my own core of values and believes is too far apart. Too many layers of abstraction separate my gaming actions from what I would really do in a given situation. And that's good. You would not want to watch most things that your character does "just like that" in reality. Many actions I encounter in DayZ would destroy a real human being for life if you had to witness them in reality. 

 

On the game, however, you can decide consciously how you want to play this game whenever you decide to log on. I am a social player, I like playing with other and the most rewarding interaction is a talking one for me. That doesn't mean I wouldn't sometimes log on and play differently and shoot much faster.

If I was a dev, I would move the game towards the crowd that is not playing it as a FPS with high punishment when killed. I think it falls short of its undeniable potential if played that simply. Increasing the survival factor, discouraging PvP via portraying that these are untrained survivors and not trained supersoldiers could help.

 

The things is tho, everybody looks for different things in DayZ due to it's sandbox nature. I for one love to hunt people, They are the most dangerus entity in this game. They give me the biggest rush and the biggest sense of acomplishment when I sneak up on somebody and manage to kill him. A lot of encounters are also situational. I remember running into somebody at the airport, he was sitting behind the door and clearly had seen me advance towards him. Instead of opening fire he waited to see what I would do since I had obviously spotted him as wel. As it turned out he was a pretty polite and that basically saved his ass. If he had run his mouth I would have killed him ( i don't suffer fools wel ) instead we chatted some then desided to team up for our loot run of the airfield and eventually we went our seperate ways.

 

The point i'm making is, you really can't predict how an encounter wil go. Sometimes people make a good impression and are rewarded for it ( by me at least ) sometimes people make a good impression and some lamer shoots them in the back. ( not my style, I hate cowardice ) So yeah, Ive definitly done my fair share of KoS but ive also had my fair share of friendly encounters. It all depends on what happens, where it happens and how it happens. If you suddenly pop up in the same building as me you have a good chance of getting shot. If you first attempt to communicate I'm much more inclined not to shoot you right of the bat.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Massacre

[Ken Bean 174]

Yah, apparently people believe that somehow society will rebuild itself amongst the chaos of a ongoing and long lasting apocolypse, yet history has shown that even in the midst of a "minor catastrophe", rape and murder and general lawlessness happen, oh and war is strictly conventional.

 

These people will be the first to die.

Dude, hunting people, being an ass is luxory. You only have enough time for it in an "easy going apacalypse".

A long grown culture of violence is just this, a violent culture. Not apocalypse.

Rape and murder are there today. These things surely will rise, but not be standard. I never said that all would be fine, I think I clearly said that some will definitely lose the plot. But that's clearly not the majority. People are different, ya know?

But thats not the point. Some just don't want to see that they play a straight Battlefield player versus player first person shooter in an zombie apocalypse. This would not be to expect. Period

Edited May 4, 2014 by Ken Bean

[SGT. Kalme 106]

War has a clear concept. The concept is to use brute weapon force to defeat the enemy. You seem to confuse this. Just being ultimate deadly and cruelty is not what makes you survive, this is a often used strategie in war to defeat the enemy (demotivation). It however is not standard in human interaction.

You seem to confuse this. There is a good saying that war does not determine who is right but who is left. People think war only exists between soldiers. All kinds of anarchy is a war. Everyone in it is in war. It is fight between individuals. If you think society is nice and polite because how it exists nowadays - it may surprise you but it is only because people are being highly controlled and they have no freedom of act. People are not nice and polite and won't call you for a supper when there is collapse of all modern society going on and everything goes to dust.

In hope that you will find others to survive with, you will die before you learn that it is a lie. It is in our nature. You say animals by nature group together which is true but other animals don't kill for no reason while human does. That is why it is not in human nature to trust another just like that. Some people are naive but don't confuse that with what we are. Some people just don't know better.

[Ken Bean 174]

You seem to confuse this. There is a good saying that war does not determine who is right but who is left. People think war only exists between soldiers. All kinds of anarchy is a war. Everyone in it is in war. It is fight between individuals. If you think society is nice and polite because how it exists nowadays - it may surprise you but it is only because people are being highly controlled and they have no freedom of act. People are not nice and polite and won't call you for a supper when there is collapse of all modern society going on and everything goes to dust.

In hope that you will find others to survive with, you will die before you learn that it is a lie. It is in our nature. You say animals by nature group together which is true but other animals don't kill for no reason while human does. That is why it is not in human nature to trust another just like that. Some people are naive but don't confuse that with what we are. Some people just don't know better.

So you are saying, in a zombie apocalypse, where many people turned into zombies, thirsty for your blood, not being able to talk to them, unstoppable hunters of your own ass, you discover, in this situation, your neighbour - which is no zombie - as being an - if not the - enemy.

Now after you decided, that the zombies are not a threat but your neighbour, you initiate a personel war against him, because of ... ?

But not only that.

You decide, just shooting everyone into the face is not adequat enough. Nope, you are initiating your little terror nightmare regime on top of that apocalypse. You gain ressources and what not only in order to capture and spread terror in the minds of not infected people.

Because somehow, you thought "that's the pressing thing right now" and you are such a supersoldier, that no zombie or someone else could stopp you. You need no help, no social contacts. A group is just something which holds you up.

Yeah, sure, everyone turns into that. :rolleyes:

Edited May 4, 2014 by Ken Bean

[SGT. Kalme 106]

Dude, hunting people, being an ass is luxory. You only have enough time for it in an "easy going apacalypse".

A long grown culture of violence is just this, a violent culture. Not apocalypse.

Rape and murder are there today. These things surely will rise, but not be standard. I never said that all would be fine, I think I clearly said that some will definitely lose the plot. But that's clearly not the majority. People are different, ya know?

But thats not the point. Some just don't want to see that they play a straight Battlefield player versus player first person shooter in an zombie apocalypse. This would not be to expect. Period

What is not apocalypse? The end of the world as we know it would not be apocalypse if people would go around and kill eachother? How people react doesn't make it one or another. It is the nature of event that determines if it is apocalypse or not.

Some just don't want to understand that people are not alike, they don't think alike, never behave alike in a total anarchy. People kill when they only feel that they should. They think that they are in threat, sense danger when there is no actual signs of it. Do you know how many people are killed in the name of selfedefense where actually was no need for it? Or even where it was attacking not defending? I don't know but ina small country like mine, I can read about such events every week. And that is in the controlled environment.

What I am trying to say, don't be naive. Get used to that world is not wonderland and people are not telletubbies in it. From all the people in the world, I can guarantee you that there would be people who would kill another just because.

[SGT. Kalme 106]

So you are saying, in a zombie apocalypse, where many people turned into zombies, thirsty for your blood, not being able to talk to them, unstoppable hunters of your own ass, you discover, in this situation, your neighbour - which is no zombie - as being an - if not the - enemy.

Now after you decided, that the zombies are not a threat but your neighbour, you initiate a personel war against him, because of ... ?

I try to explain it to you as an average person would. I am in a zombie apocalypse. I have nothing but a need to survive. That means I need food, water, shelter as the first main things along to defending myself from other apparent threats such as zombified people. Now, I find a place where is a guy. He have food and water and shelter. All the things that I need to survive in the first place. But he is not going to give that to me just because I go and say hello and wave at him. The link between my goal to preserve and necessary resources that would provide it, becomes one unreliable link. You don't know the person. If he is agressive or friendly guy. Willing to share or keep it all to himself because he is also in need to survive. Now, if I want to find out which he is, I will but my own purpose to preserve at risk. He may be armed and shoot you. Your primary instinct is to survive, you are close to have all you need for it but there is a distractor that is not important from surviving aspect. Important is my life and his resources. Do you a) go and risk being killed, B) kill him bcause that way you are safe and your goal is fulfilled or c) leave and hope you find a different way to obtain resources for survival? I will tell you right away, on an unconsious level you are not going to value completely unimportant person higher than you need and your options to survive.

Can't explain in a more simple way why people act how they act.

Edited May 4, 2014 by SGT. Kalme

[Ken Bean 174]

I try to explain it to you as an average person would. I am in a zombie apocalypse. I have nothing but a need to survive. That means I need food, water, shelter as the first main things along to defending myself from other apparent threats such as zombified people. Now, I find a place where is a guy. He have food and water and shelter. All the things that I need to survive in the first place. But he is not going to give that to me just because I go and say hello and wave at him. The link between my goal to preserve and necessary resources that would provide it, becomes one unreliable link. You don't know the person. If he is agressive or friendly guy. Willing to share or keep it all to himself because he is also in need to survive. Now, if I want to find out which he is, I will but my own purpose to preserve at risk. He may be armed and shoot you. Your primary instinct is to survive, you are close to have all you need for it but there is a distractor that is not important from surviving aspect. Important is my life and his resources. Do you a) go and risk being killed, B) kill him bcause that way you are safe and your goal is fulfilled or c) leave and hope you find a different way to obtain resources for survival? I will tell you right away, on an unconsious level you are not going to value completely unimportant person higher than you need and your options to survive.

Can't explain in a more simple way why people act how they act.

 

 

You are clear that not everyone would kill for beans? You are clear that even the the hardcorest of the hardcorest serial bean killer sooner or later questiones himself what he did and - more important - why? Some actually act because of reasoning. And not everyone nails his "my ass is golden" over everything he comes across. Some just say, lets call it a life. World turned to sh*t anyway. I wouldn't try everything under every circumstances and I think many people would react depressed in the very first place, given what has gone lost.

 

Important to understand is, that what you said, how an apocalypse would look like, only happens in your imagination.

Please don't call those things in your imagination the standard procedure for such circumstances.

Can we agree with that?

Edited May 4, 2014 by Ken Bean

[SGT. Kalme 106]

You are clear that not everyone would kill for beans? You are clear that even the the hardcorest of the hardcorest serial bean killer sooner or later questiones himself what he did and - more important - why? Some actually act because of reasoning. And not everyone nails his "my ass is golden" over everything he comes across. Some just say, lets call it a life. World turned to sh*t anyway.

It is not about beans. You haven't felt starvation if you think people would not kill for food. It is not killing for beans, it is killing to survive.

And you do realize that it is not up to you to decide who would and who wouldn't? And definitely you couldn't know that before you either got other guy to stick to or you die. If you think that people can fight their basic instincts and survive, you are one happy blue-eyed guy. And I am glad to see you have so much faith in humanity. But it won't happen. If you try to fight your survival instincts, you will die. Even more if besides instinct you have no survival skills.

[Ken Bean 174]

If you try to fight your survival instincts, you will die.

 

You will die anyway. Everything has an end, only sausages have two.

[SGT. Kalme 106]

You will die anyway. Everything has an end, only sausages have two.

Actually circle has none.

And yes, I will die. You will die. Everyone will die. Some people die faster because they are weak and incapable of survival outside their natural habitat which is a safe life in a gray box in a big groups of boxes that you call cities.

I could manage though, I feel myself very comfortable in the woods.

Edited May 4, 2014 by SGT. Kalme

[Ken Bean 174]

Actually circle has none.

And yes, I will die. You will die. Everyone will die. Some people die faster because they are weak and incapable of survival outside their natural habitat which is a safe life in a gray box in a big groups of boxes that you call cities.

I could manage though, I feel myself very comfortable in the woods.

 

The question is all for what. I doubt that the few survivor would decimate themselfes all too much. If life becomes rare, you are not gona destroy it without a reason, unless you are somewhat crazy.

 

A scenario would be that they meet in the woods, outside the cities and found smaller communities which give themselfs rules and order and that are able to defend themselfes.

 

Skills are getting very important. Doctors are needed, some kind of law enforcer as well ... and so on.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Ken Bean

[gwartham 13]

It is not about beans. You haven't felt starvation if you think people would not kill for food. It is not killing for beans, it is killing to survive.

And you do realize that it is not up to you to decide who would and who wouldn't? And definitely you couldn't know that before you either got other guy to stick to or you die. If you think that people can fight their basic instincts and survive, you are one happy blue-eyed guy. And I am glad to see you have so much faith in humanity. But it won't happen. If you try to fight your survival instincts, you will die. Even more if besides instinct you have no survival skills.

 

I don't think Ken has seen much of the world, and I am doubtful if he has children of his own.

 

Would you risk the lives of your family on the hopes the people you run across wont slit their throats in their sleep?

 

The only people who will be this naive are the ones who simply couldn't survive without the help of others anyway, and at best they will be flipping a coin.

 

Desperation is the only thing that will force strangers to work together.

 

Those who have the skills and the group already wont need , nor will they want, another mouth to feed.

Edited May 4, 2014 by gwartham

[Ken Bean 174]

I don't think Ken has seen much of the world, and I am doubtful if he has children of his own.

 

Would you risk the lives of your family on the hopes the people you run across wont slit their throats in their sleep?

 

The only people who will be this naive are the ones who simply couldn't survive without the help of others anyway, and at best they will be flipping a coin.

 

Desperation is the only thing that will force strangers to work together.

 

Those who have the skills and the group already wont need , nor will they want, another mouth to feed.

 

First of, your family is gone. (hypothetically in that scenario)

 

Second, where do you get that I'm naive? I'm just not that all black painted bastard you want me to be.

 

However, the egg timer ticks for everyone anyway.

 

See, the end-contract already has been signed. All you can do is trying to stay nice.

 

Strangers btw would need to work together. (If not then, when else?)

Edited May 4, 2014 by Ken Bean

[gwartham 13]

First of, your family is gone. (hypothetically in that scenario)

 

Second, where do you get that I'm naive? I'm just not that all black painted bastard you like me to be.

 

However, the egg timer ticks for everyone anyway.

 

See, the end-contract already has been signed. All you can do is trying to stay nice.

 

 

Who says my family is gone?

 

You once again writing everybody elses story?

 

You are soo god damned arrogant.

Edited May 4, 2014 by gwartham

[Ken Bean 174]

Who says my family is gone?

You once again writing everybody elses story?

You are soo god damned arrogant.

Thanks god you are better than the rest.

[SGT. Kalme 106]

The question is all for what. I doubt that the few survivor would decimate themselfes all too much. If life becomes rare, you are not gona destroy it without a reason, unless you are somewhat crazy.

 

A scenario would be that they meet in the woods, outside the cities and found smaller communities which give themselfs rules and order and that are able to defend themselfes.

 

Skills are getting very important. Doctors are needed, some kind of law enforcer as well ... and so on.

You still don't understand it, do you? Have you ever been in a need for something that no getting that could mean your death? Starving, cold, thirsty. Whatever it is. Beans are not just beans when it could make the difference between living and dying.

It seems that your values are oddly misplaced. It may or may not be one affection of modern society. We buy what we want forgetting what we even need. You should defintely try out survival camping. I am not offending you. Just that going out to live in the woods with minimal resources can teach everyone a thing or two. And not only about survival.