Alright, I am finally concerned about the standalone

[terminal_boy 860]

 

I have time and money to spend in court. 

 

I'm sure there will be lawyers rushing to help you waste both.

[GunnyITA 107]

What's your fear based on, other random companies or BI's long history of supporting their games?

 

 

Basically is based on: "Game's engine can't be pushed much more than this, we've earned the money we targeted for by mislead people and we succesfully did it"

These are not informations they wont going to tell you... I've worked for a private company that his turnover was just to be 1 million of euro per year. But we had to push our employers to work harder to bring the target to 2 millions instead.

 

 

"Business is business" and it's a motto used worldwide.

Game can't be pushed more than this and actually have more than 2 years back. What i would do if i'm the manager of this company? I will make the luggage and bye bye.They have been earned much more money than Max Payne 3! How much people will wait more? This is not the story of Penelope that wait from Ulysses to Itaca: People generally changes tastes and costumes and swap to other things.

 

At least Duke nukem Forever taken 12 years to be released "complete", does dayz will be? Or will be just a project to mislead people and earn money in the meantime?

Edited April 25, 2014 by GunnyITA

[dallas 5195]

Basically is based on: "Game's engine can't be pushed much more than this, we've earned the money we targeted for by mislead people and we succesfully did it"

These are not informations they wont going to tell you... I've worked for a private company that his turnover was just to be 1 million of euro per year. But we had to push our employers to work harder to bring the target to 2 millions instead.

 

 

"Business is business" and it's a motto used worldwide.

Game can't be pushed more than this and actually have more than 2 years back. What i would do if i'm the manager of this company? I will make the luggage and bye bye.They have been earned much more money than Max Payne 3! How much people will wait more? This is not the story of Penelope that wait from Ulysses to Itaca: People generally changes tastes and costumes and swap to other things.

 

At least Duke nukem Forever taken 12 years to be released "complete", does dayz will be? Or will be just a project to mislead people and earn money in the meantime?

How exactly did you get mislead?

 

By the allcaps warning on Steam?

By the development roadmap on the same Steam page?

By the hundreds of user experiences on youtube and twitch?

[taco86 156]

I've got to be honest, my honey moon phase with dayz is certainly over...  At this point I see it for what it really is...  Great concept, bad execution...  Snails pace development along with a god awful game engine...  My opinion is that if the quality and rate of development does not increase, the increasingly negative community will become overwhelming.

[BlinkingRiki182 54]

lemme correct you: 13 years ago.

 

Dayz engine still uses the same systems that operation flashpoint had.

 

BIS only got their shit together in the arma 3 engine, but anything back from standalone uses basically the same engine, with prettier textures and some different features that flashpoint used in 2001.

 

Right in the kisser bro!

 

DayZ will not be the game many people here expect it to be. What you see now is close to what you will get. The problem is the engine and the fact that it's downright impossible to improve its flaws. Have you tried modifying legacy code, let alone 3D engine code? The engine is designed for large scale open spaces and not multistory buildings. It's a huge mistake that they started with the modified Arma2 engine instead of waiting for the Arma3 engine, which is way better.

[irl-calibre 744]

i'm pretty sure BI know better what the fuck their at than you do..

[thebomberman 20]

i'm pretty sure BI know better what the fuck their at than you do..

Doesn't mean they're doing it well or doing the right thing.

 

And that post pretty much sums up my point about the trolls mostly existing on the Pro BI side of things...

[irl-calibre 744]

yeah, that';s right, in all the very many years they have been developing their engine and games, you know better than they do what their at, away and have a word with yourself..

[GunnyITA 107]

How exactly did you get mislead?

 

By the allcaps warning on Steam?

By the development roadmap on the same Steam page?

By the hundreds of user experiences on youtube and twitch?

 

Me, as many angry people here, we've been mislead by the fact this game more than this can't really be.

 

My feeling are that developers had release it on pre-alpha because the idea of the game is original by itself and might attract many people. And it's proven: Look how many we are!

If it is going to be offered at moderate price some people could buy it as an excuse that this game when finished would be better, without pay much more for a final version.

 

So that, actually they going to develop it, they upgrade it up day by day (i prefer to say year by year).....If they're going to finish it! That's fine, great for everyone! But if they don't? Imagine a situation where they stop and say: "More than this we can't do, stop the project we can't go on and we are not oblidged to refund someone"

Don't you think Bohemia interactive is bigger than the older Infogrames or beloved Westwood. Have you ever heard about the word laundering and changing company name? have you ever left a down payment for something and then everyone disappeared?

 

This game has serious problems as age and engine and can't be more than what we are seeing in this days and what have been passed on these 2 years: an invisible canned tuna as seen on test server! So why test servers are up if they release the patch with noticeable bugs on the regular stable servers?

 

It's way too easy being honest by say: "I DON'T SUGGEST TO BUY THE GAME YET". ....So, how will you pay the new entry employers did you hired in these weeks? By begging on the streets?

If nobody is going to buy the game (as suggested by a famous guy) where do they find the founds to upgrade the game and pay the employers? By charity?

Edited April 25, 2014 by GunnyITA

[pillock 850]

I haven't been arsed to read every whinge, slag-off, gripe, correction and insult on this thread, but I just wanted to say this:

 

The current version on Stable branch now is probably the least fun to play that it's been since I first downloaded the Alpha in January. It's the controls, the zombie behaviour, some of the graphical effects, the frame-rates and the weapon damage values, I think. There may be other things, too.

 

I won't say these features have been "broken" by recent updates - they were never "fixed" or "finished" in the first place - but I think their current state makes the overall gameplay experience less fun than it used to be. Does that matter at this early stage? I don't know. For me, personally: not really. I will probably continue to play the alpha and follow its progress.

 

But I think there is a wider point here that has some validity: making the stable version worse - even temporarily - can have the effect of putting some  people off playing. There is a general perception - right or wrong - that the alpha is not progressing very satisfactorily or quickly, and there are rival/copy-cat games taking over some of the hype. Does this maybe have a detrimental potential effect on DayZ's future?

 

I think probably not, but I'm talking myself round in circles here, so I think I'll shut up...

[thebomberman 20]

yeah, that';s right, in all the very many years they have been developing their engine and games, you know better than they do what their at, away and have a word with yourself..

OK mate you just keep on with the eloquent white knighting, and ignore any points anyone brings up that are contrary to your opinion :) Lets also ignore the fact that game companies can and do fail, games are shelved. But no - they know what they're doing :D

 

I think some of the concern stems from the fact that all over the web there are examples of kickstarted and Alpha games being done very right. I'm involved in a few  - Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen, Shadowrun (done now) and others. Examples of games being built without the assets DayZ already has. Examples of games that are taking time, but in which you can actually see progress to a finished product. Examples of games in which you can feel confident the devs know what they're doing. In DayZ I see new items and such sure, but the basic game appears stagnant.

It also doesn't help that a lot of the mods built on Arma3 engine are already in an equally/more advanced state...

 

As I said a while back, I love the idea. I'm not a hater, I'm concerned. I think I have good reason. But that's not allowed eh? :D

[AdmiralBull 15]

I've got to be honest, my honey moon phase with dayz is certainly over...  At this point I see it for what it really is...  Great concept, bad execution...  Snails pace development along with a god awful game engine...  My opinion is that if the quality and rate of development does not increase, the increasingly negative community will become overwhelming.

Well,in my opinion,I say that your opinion and the rest of the negative community should either stop playing the game and shut up,get your money back and shut up or, take a loss and shut up.Go play H1Z1,WarZ (Infestation or whatever the fuck they are calling it now) or any other zombie survival game that is out there and stop all the bitching & counter bitching for what it is worth = NOTHING.Its not gonna change the devs progression or the patient fan's opinion of DayZ SA. This community was built on and by the  majority of the orginal mod(whatever version you chose to play) players of DayZ. It had bugs, all the mods there after had bugs and,we still played it in spite of that.I felt as if it where just some other hurdle I had to deal with while playing the game itself and its survival objective.I understand if some folks can't use their keystrokes and it becomes aggravating,I would be too.Have some patience and that too,will get ironed out but,only at the dev's speed and not our own personal speed.If you can't stand the fire get out of the frying pan,bitches.You were warned and continue to be warned everytime you login to the game.....

[GunnyITA 107]

Well, bf4 uses the Frostbite engine which has been used since 2008 and Dayz uses the Arma 2 engine which was released in 2009 (both of which were updated/improved for the newer games).  Not to mention the fact that bf4 still has terrible tickrate, misaligned hitboxes, broken hit registration, and several other 'core mechanics' bugs...and its been out for several months while Dayz is still in alpha state.  So I think its a fair comparison.

 

 

No way....No way

I'm not anymore a fan of BF3 or BF4....i've played only BF3 and i have a mine friend that have been a close betatester for the 3rd and i guarrantee that the Frostbite engine is quite nice!

 

Bad company 2 had too way much blur effect and didn't like it

BF3 Became a great game

BF4, that i didn't tryed, by what i heard had several bugs on the beginning....maibe comparing to BF3 was released too fast but soon they fixed most of the things over the time, also because DICE and EA games have differents founds comparing to Bohemia...

 

Then Frostbite 2 is certainly better, and sure not have lagg problems, hitbox problems, physics problems, animation problem of Arma engine....it is like comparing the shit with the chocolate by stating both are brown.

[GunnyITA 107]

Thebomberman said:

I see new items and such sure, but the basic game appears stagnant.  :D

 

 

Agreed

 

 

And agree also with this said above by Pillock

 

right or wrong - that the alpha is not progressing very satisfactorily or quickly, and there are rival/copy-cat games taking over some of the hype. Does this maybe have a detrimental potential effect on Dayz's future

Edited April 25, 2014 by GunnyITA

[bfisher 561]

Roedl&Partner is a great company. I'm their client more than 10 years. 

 

Well, when your daddy comes home from work, I suppose you can ask him to sue the big bad software company for you.

Edited April 25, 2014 by bfisher

[irl-calibre 744]

OK mate you just keep on with the eloquent white knighting, and ignore any points anyone brings up that are contrary to your opinion :) Lets also ignore the fact that game companies can and do fail, games are shelved. But no - they know what they're doing :D

 

I think some of the concern stems from the fact that all over the web there are examples of kickstarted and Alpha games being done very right. I'm involved in a few  - Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen, Shadowrun (done now) and others. Examples of games being built without the assets DayZ already has. Examples of games that are taking time, but in which you can actually see progress to a finished product. Examples of games in which you can feel confident the devs know what they're doing. In DayZ I see new items and such sure, but the basic game appears stagnant.

It also doesn't help that a lot of the mods built on Arma3 engine are already in an equally/more advanced state...

 

As I said a while back, I love the idea. I'm not a hater, I'm concerned. I think I have good reason. But that's not allowed eh? :D

 

it's nothing to do with "white knighting" my comment wasn't even directed at you, never the less, you must be fucking blind then as I see new content / town's / buildings in the last few weeks, not to mention all the work i'd imagine that is going on under the hood so to speak with the engine / server architecture etc etc..  my comment was directed at the person trying to tell BI which version of their engine they should use, my point being.. i'm pretty sure they know what their at better than they do. 

[bfisher 561]

Well,in my opinion,I say that your opinion and the rest of the negative community should either stop playing the game and shut up,get your money back and shut up or, take a loss and shut up.Go play H1Z1,WarZ (Infestation or whatever the fuck they are calling it now) or any other zombie survival game that is out there and stop all the bitching & counter bitching for what it is worth = NOTHING.Its not gonna change the devs progression or the patient fan's opinion of DayZ SA. This community was built on and by the  majority of the orginal mod(whatever version you chose to play) players of DayZ. It had bugs, all the mods there after had bugs and,we still played it in spite of that.I felt as if it where just some other hurdle I had to deal with while playing the game itself and its survival objective.I understand if some folks can't use their keystrokes and it becomes aggravating,I would be too.Have some patience and that too,will get ironed out but,only at the dev's speed and not our own personal speed.If you can't stand the fire get out of the frying pan,bitches.You were warned and continue to be warned everytime you login to the game.....

 

Yeah, that's a good marketing strategy.  Release an unfinished game and when people complain about how each patch seems to bring it no closer to being finished then tell them to "fuck off".

 

Why should anyone have any confidence that the game will ever be finished?  The game has already sold close to 2 million copies.  Do you think there is another 2 million in sales out there to make it worthwhile for BI to keep working on this project forever?  Maybe as the founder and project lead, Rocket could have the passion to keep it going, but he's leaving in a few months to go do something else.  You can spin that any way you like, but who leaves a project before it's complete unless all they want to do is get the hell away from it?

[lipemr 160]

Well,in my opinion,I say that your opinion and the rest of the negative community should either stop playing the game and shut up,get your money back and shut up or, take a loss and shut up.Go play H1Z1,WarZ (Infestation or whatever the fuck they are calling it now) or any other zombie survival game that is out there and stop all the bitching & counter bitching for what it is worth = NOTHING.Its not gonna change the devs progression or the patient fan's opinion of DayZ SA. This community was built on and by the  majority of the orginal mod(whatever version you chose to play) players of DayZ. It had bugs, all the mods there after had bugs and,we still played it in spite of that.I felt as if it where just some other hurdle I had to deal with while playing the game itself and its survival objective.I understand if some folks can't use their keystrokes and it becomes aggravating,I would be too.Have some patience and that too,will get ironed out but,only at the dev's speed and not our own personal speed.If you can't stand the fire get out of the frying pan,bitches.You were warned and continue to be warned everytime you login to the game.....

 

Well, starting by the fact you put anyone who talk anything bad about the game as "whiny mofos" and all the white knights diehard-wannabe as "patient fans", it seems clear that you take things personally about this game.

 

nowadays most of the people defending days flaws take shit personally when we say anything, and that's the problem. It's like a new religion, "talk bad things about my game and i'll consider you an enemy".

 

The fact is that we're all here by the same motivation: trying to make the game better.

 

But obviously some people here dont have life experience enough and think only compliments and support can make things get on track, when it's not like it. Without pression, things dont get done IRL.

[irl-calibre 744]

Yeah, that's a good marketing strategy.  Release an unfinished game and when people complain about how each patch seems to bring it no closer to being finished then tell them to "fuck off".

 

Why should anyone have any confidence that the game will ever be finished?  The game has already sold close to 2 million copies.  Do you think there is another 2 million in sales out there to make it worthwhile for BI to keep working on this project forever?  Maybe as the founder and project lead, Rocket could have the passion to keep it going, but he's leaving in a few months to go do something else.  You can spin that any way you like, but who leaves a project before it's complete unless all they want to do is get the hell away from it?

 

er.. someone who has fulfilled their contract and are no longer obligated to live in an eastern European city where their work visa is no longer valid and who wishes to return home to his own country and start their own studio rather than work for someone else maybe? Dayz is going to be huge when it releases, BI are not some fly by night operation..

Edited April 25, 2014 by Calibre

[AdmiralBull 15]

Well, starting by the fact you put anyone who talk anything bad about the game as "whiny mofos" and all the white knights diehard-wannabe as "patient fans", it seems clear that you take things personally about this game.

 

nowadays most of the people defending days flaws take shit personally when we say anything, and that's the problem. It's like a new religion, "talk bad things about my game and i'll consider you an enemy".

 

The fact is that we're all here by the same motivation: trying to make the game better.

 

But obviously some people here dont have life experience enough and think only compliments and support can make things get on track, when it's not like it. Without pression, things dont get done IRL.

The point is and, its also a matter of fact, that it will not speed up the progress of the devs or whether they choose to chuck out the whole game by all this constant useless bitching,pro or con.Those that want to play and are playing are wanting to give positive feedback and it can be critical at times but, it just seems to me in my opinion,that the majority of the folks within these forums do nothing but,bash the game for its core engine and the way that it progresses no matter what the speed.There is no one in this forum or outside of the developers,that is going to change that,period.So please give us a break,stop playing the game and stop filling the forum with a bunch of crybaby bullshit that is not going to do anything but bring everyone down when most of us want it to succeed.In the end it isn't going to change the way that it gets finished.If you don't have any faith in the end result then chalk it up to a $30 loss and be done with it.

[lipemr 160]

The point is and, its also a matter of fact, that it will not speed up the progress of the devs or whether they choose to chuck out the whole game by all this constant useless bitching,pro or con.Those that want to play and are playing are wanting to give positive feedback and it can be critical at times but, it just seems to me in my opinion,that the majority of the folks within these forums do nothing but,bash the game for its core engine and the way that it progresses no matter what the speed.There is no one in this forum or outside of the developers,that is going to change that,period.So please give us a break,stop playing the game and stop filling the forum with a bunch of crybaby bullshit that is not going to do anything but bring everyone down when most of us want it to succeed.In the end it isn't going to change the way that it gets finished.If you don't have any faith in the end result then chalk it up to a $30 loss and be done with it.

 

so, in your mind, negative feedback will make devs sad and they wont be able to make it into a sucessful game?

 

oh dear...

 

Devs hurry or normalize the progress based on three things: Schedule, Competition and Popularity

 

Rocket proved us that he doesnt care for the first one multiple times on the last year. Competition is still not present, and possibly will never be. The only thing left is popularity.

 

the game losing populatiry will hurt future games that rocket or BIS release. They already got paid for standalone, but if it turns out to be a scam, their next game is doomed.

Edited April 25, 2014 by lipemr

[pillock 850]

It won't be stagnant forever, but it does feel so right now.

 

It seems like a long time since the last update, and this most recent one hasn't actually improved the gameplay experience - if anything, it's made it worse! Until we get hunting, cooking and - especially - persistent storage, I think the game will continue to feel stagnant because there won't be anything fundamentally different or new to actually do in the game from what there is now.

 

At the moment, the only real appeal of the game is the urban tactical combat - in terms of apocalypse survival, there really isn't a game here at all, yet.

 

-Killing zombies is not a satisfying mini-game, because of their glitchy behaviour, the crap melee mechanics and the instant respawning. This has to change, but it seems a long way off right now.

-Exploration can be fun, but only for as long as it takes you to get to know the map (for many players, this appeal has long been out-lived by now).

-Looting for looting's sake is not fun in itself - much of the kit you find is useless because the mechanics for their intended purpose aren't ready yet.

 

Because of the tactical combat focus of current gameplay balance, player-to-player meetings are inevitably skewed towards hostility - and this exacerbates the frustration of people looking for a more survival/interaction-based experience.

 

Being able to throw objects doesn't change anything - it's useless in itself as a gameplay feature (even when it works properly, which it doesn't currently).

Being able to shoot bows and arrows and crossbows doesn't change anything - it's just another weapon to do the same things with as before.

Being able to build fires for cooking won't change anything on its own, either - it provides a bit of variation and distraction, but doesn't change how you look after your character. Food is food, and it's plentiful already; cooking doesn't provide any benefits over and above eating stuff cold.

 

I think the game will continue to feel a bit stagnant until we get the really juicy features like hunting, vehicles and persistent storage. Being able to set up "home" - and to defend it - will give you a reason for the PvP beyond "it's fun" and "there's nothing else to do". Building and maintaining a vehicle will give players a project to work on, as will barricading and base-building. Hunting - if done well - might prove to be a viable mini-game; zombie-killing might even evolve into that, too. Having deeper and more complex health/injury mechanics will force on players a change of focus in terms of what they can and can't do with regularity.

 

The issue is not what the game is now: the issue is whether DayZ can keep pace - and therefore media coverage and player interest - with the emergent competitors. If it gets left behind in terms of player numbers DayZ will die, regardless of anyone's good intentions.

[dallas 5195]

Me, as many angry people here, we've been mislead by the fact this game more than this can't really be.

 

My feeling are that developers had release it on pre-alpha because the idea of the game is original by itself and might attract many people. And it's proven: Look how many we are!

If it is going to be offered at moderate price some people could buy it as an excuse that this game when finished would be better, without pay much more for a final version.

 

So that, actually they going to develop it, they upgrade it up day by day (i prefer to say year by year).....If they're going to finish it! That's fine, great for everyone! But if they don't? Imagine a situation where they stop and say: "More than this we can't do, stop the project we can't go on and we are not oblidged to refund someone"

Don't you think Bohemia interactive is bigger than the older Infogrames or beloved Westwood. Have you ever heard about the word laundering and changing company name? have you ever left a down payment for something and then everyone disappeared?

 

This game has serious problems as age and engine and can't be more than what we are seeing in this days and what have been passed on these 2 years: an invisible canned tuna as seen on test server! So why test servers are up if they release the patch with noticeable bugs on the regular stable servers?

 

It's way too easy being honest by say: "I DON'T SUGGEST TO BUY THE GAME YET". ....So, how will you pay the new entry employers did you hired in these weeks? By begging on the streets?

If nobody is going to buy the game (as suggested by a famous guy) where do they find the founds to upgrade the game and pay the employers? By charity?

 

Charity? Begging?

 

Now you're simply being intentionally ignorant. DayZ mod sold 2 million copies of ArmA 2, which should be enough to secure a little funding to develop the standalone or maybe you think all these money went to Czech strippers and Italian supercars? While DayZ didn't spend money on advertising, it was quite obvious from the continued interest on youtube, twitch, reddit and here, that mod players, wanted to see the next chapter of the DayZ adventure. 

 

I never understand people's problem with the engine, I mean without the engine, we'd never have had DayZ in the first place. As you probably remember, no one was interested in a survival game, where you lost everything, when you died, no one wanted to invest in a game that treated it's audience as adults, where death had an actual consequence. I've been with the engine for 13 years, I thought that Operation Flashpoint set a new standard, when I played it in 2001. It's vast and geographical landscapes, it's 1:1 ingame time, accurate and rotating starmaps, but there really weren't any alternatives to RV, unless you wanted to go back to invisible barriers and tunnel shooters.

 

You simply didn't understand that kind of engine you were getting and you didn't fully understand what you got yourself into, when you skimmed the sales page and clicked that purchase button, because that sales page always clearly warned you about what to expect and exactly how long the road map was going to be.

 

Me, I did read it, still I thought that I was rolling the dice, when I paid $30 for early access to a product in development. For me, I based the risk on the 13 year relationship I had with BI games and my hundreds of hours in the Real Virtuality engine. If I disliked BI or I hated the engine, I probably wouldn't have risked $30.

 

Which is why I never risked my money on WarZ and why you wont see me buying H1Z1 and then spending the majority of my time on their forums, complaining about their cheap "F2P" version of DayZ(that is if they ever get their own forums).

[Ken Bean 175]

The fact is that we're all here by the same motivation: trying to make the game better.

Not sure about everyone, but in general you should be right.

Well, just a thought, is it really the right way to complain about everything folk comes across in a quite rude manner (as seen so many times)?

Thing is, no one has something about constructive criticism. But this angry posts full of exorbitant (and often pointless) demands that screw over everything positive that has been done ... I can't see how that could help.

That crying about bugs ... in an alpha ... :rolleyes:

[calabam 55]

The main issue for me is although so much has be added to the mod thats in the standalone theres so many things that me and many others thought would have been closer to have been solved when the alpha was released the main ones being the zombies and glitching thru walls etc the big game breakers are still there and thats why it draws so much heat from folk .