This is how dumb punching is in this game.

[Etherimp 1323]

i mean we could tie melee also to hunger/thirst. if energized you can knock someone out. if your starving you would lack the energy to even properly raise your hands i guess.

 

 

Why?

 

If you have enough energy to run, you have enough energy to throw a powerful punch given enough adrenaline.

 

 

Now, if you wanna talk a rework of the melee system, personally I'd like to see something similar to War of the Roses

 

 

 

 

Down = uppercut

Up = Power punch (haymaker/overhand right)

Right = Right jab

Left = Left cross

Edited April 21, 2014 by Etherimp

[tsandrey 379]

There is no need to change the damage they do. They are working perfectly fine. If a player with a gun doesn't know how to defend himself against a player armed only with fists, then it is entirely his own fault, not the fault of the fists.

It's okay if somebody manages to sneak up on a guy with a weapon and knock him out by hitting him in the face, but it's not fine if he can run around with uber fast speed and randomly hit him!

[Max Planck 7174]

I might get a warn or points for this, but is anyone else sick of the mods responding to feedback like this?

 

 

Op said he thinks punching is kind of over the top and asks wether people agree with him or not. I don't think its a fair response to tell him to wait for the final game

 

 

You may be sick of it, but I think I was giving pretty good advice. If playing on the experimental branch of a game still in development aggravates you enough to post threads calling temporary settings 'dumb' and 'retarded', then maybe it would be a good idea to wait until the kinks get worked out a bit. Or, find a more constructive way to 'provide feedback'.

 

Sick of it as you may be, I don't say this to patronize him, I say it because these pointlessly aggressive threads make the forums less of a pleasant place to be. 

 

Yes, but this isn't a major feature or bug. They only need to change the damage fists do, and that can be done in 5 seconds...

 

They could do that, but then someone else would make a rage thread about how they nerfed it. There is no setting that will satisfy everyone, but still, a range of settings should be tested to find out what works best. This, I believe, is already happening.

 

That's actually not a bad idea at all. In fact, I'd quite like a lot of things (run speed and so on) to be tied to your hunger and thirst levels.

 

That would be nice. Blood levels too, I'd rather see some direct, physical effects from blood loss/hunger/thirst than the visual stuff we have now.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Max Planck

[BadAsh (DayZ) 1513]

It's okay if somebody manages to sneak up on a guy with a weapon and knock him out by hitting him in the face, but it's not fine if he can run around with uber fast speed and randomly hit him!

 

Why not?

[soulfirez 901]

The only problem with punching in this game is there is no blocking.. I read all these guys protesting to compeat in martial arts and yet not one has mentioned the reason they dont get knocked out all the time is there defending themselves blocking rolling with the punches not standing flat footed like a twerp which will get you knocked out quick smart.( If a great deal of your training wasnt in methods of avoidance id get your money back because you were trained to be a knock out dummy )

 

The amount of force required to knock a person out  ( or semi out where the lights are on and no body is home a state that would still make it easy for someone to take your gun away and shoot you) is not all that much if you hit in the right place. A balistic helmet gives zero protection from being knocked out by a punch does it cover your chin( beyond a strap ) nope does it stop your head from snapping back from being struck correctly in the chin ? nope.

 

Thats why there are so many bike helmets in the game these do provide punch protection.

 

PS next time your in game having a fresh spawn vs freshspawn boxing match use the lean function it actually works if timed correctly ( not perfect hit boxes seem a little screwy lol) and being hit from behind is a perfect way to get knocked out so if your dumb enough to let someone get behind you and take a shot then sorry you deserve to get knocked out

[kimosabbi 48]

That's actually not a bad idea at all. In fact, I'd quite like a lot of things (run speed and so on) to be tied to your hunger and thirst levels.

 

 

I believe that there is already something in place to tie hydrated to running speed.

 

If you are fully hydrated, you are able to outrun someone who is not hydrated.

 

(this is based on fists out running and no involvement of weapons in hand as I've not tested that)

 

On a seperate note, I'd like to echo other comments here. Bambi's can KO someone with a couple of punches, I'm fine with this feature otherwise they cannot defend themselves. I have avoided being humiliated by bandits by the fact I can defend myself with my hands.

 

If you are able to be overpowered by a bambis hands - you need to re-evaluate why you let them get that close to you and stop that from happening.

Edited April 21, 2014 by .#KimoSabbi

[Etherimp 1323]

The only problem with punching in this game is there is no blocking.. I read all these guys protesting to compeat in martial arts and yet not one has mentioned the reason they dont get knocked out all the time is there defending themselves blocking rolling with the punches not standing flat footed like a twerp which will get you knocked out quick smart.( If a great deal of your training wasnt in methods of avoidance id get your money back because you were trained to be a knock out dummy )

 

The amount of force required to knock a person out  ( or semi out where the lights are on and no body is home a state that would still make it easy for someone to take your gun away and shoot you) is not all that much if you hit in the right place. A balistic helmet gives zero protection from being knocked out by a punch does it cover your chin( beyond a strap ) nope does it stop your head from snapping back from being struck correctly in the chin ? nope.

 

Thats why there are so many bike helmets in the game these do provide punch protection.

 

PS next time your in game having a fresh spawn vs freshspawn boxing match use the lean function it actually works if timed correctly ( not perfect hit boxes seem a little screwy lol) and being hit from behind is a perfect way to get knocked out so if your dumb enough to let someone get behind you and take a shot then sorry you deserve to get knocked out

 

 

I mentioned blocking, and WotR melee system involves blocking. I simply addressed how easy it was to knock someone out who was not ready for the punch. 

 

 

 

 

I believe that there is already something in place to tie hydrated to running speed.

 

If you are fully hydrated, you are able to outrun someone who is not hydrated.

 

(this is based on fists out running and no involvement of weapons in hand as I've not tested that)

 

 

Fist out running is no faster than fist down running. That's been fixed.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Etherimp

[kimosabbi 48]

Fist out running is no faster than fist down running. That's been fixed.

 

Ah, well I did not know this cheers.

 

Either way run hyrdated > run dehydrated.

[DMack 60]

Honestly, if you're holding an M4 and someone manages to punch you then you are officially doing it wrong. IMO it should take more than a couple of punches to kill someone but you should be able to knock someone down/out with 1-2 well placed punches.

"Well placed" is the key word.

 

Anyone who follows MMA will know this highlight from the Spider Silva VS. Forrest Griffin match.

 

I teensy weensy jab that's placed perfectly on the chin, even while the person throwing the punch is moving backwards is enough to knock him out cold.....

 

check in out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoC08UarV5k

[onkel (DayZ) 5]

You know what? In my eyes hand to hand combat in this game is still to weak even.

We need some kind of lock on aiming system while fighting with bare hands. Every mid forty casual family man can land some punches to the body in real life...even while the target is moving. Why not in this game?

Plus: where is the Button to grab someone from behind and push them to the ground? (Of course with the counter if you see the attack coming)

All this stutter shaky shimmy spastic reaching with those stiff hands is way to robotic

Edited April 21, 2014 by onkel

[Etherimp 1323]

You know what? In my eyes hand to hand combat in this game is still to weak even.

We need some kind of lock on aiming system while fighting with bare hands. Every mid forty casual family man can land some punches to the body in real life...even while the target is moving. Why not in this game?

Plus: where is the Button to grab someone from behind and push them to the ground? (Of course with the counter if you see the attack coming)

All this stutter shaky shimmy spastic reaching with those stiff hands is way to robotic

 

 

Watch the WotR video.. there's a charge/tackle manuever. :)

[blackberrygoo 1416]

I honestly think the Punching knockout mechanic is there for the fresh spawns that can't defend themselves on loot less servers .. I mean come one people are you guys really defending the people who say killing fresh spawns needs to be made easier ?

I've knocked out plenty of people with weapons using my fists, only to be shot down by one of their group members that is actually paying attention, so that's the key really pay attention .

And if you got sneak attacked by a smart fresh spawn , well then you're at their mercy just like all your victims were at your mercy when you were holding them up with your m4 . So before we ask "why can't we survive this survival game all the time " lets rememer its because its just that , a survival game and although the objective is to survive you're not always going to .

So people instead of arguing about a feature( that I think is great for lone wolves and fresh spawns ) lets instead think of other problems that actually matter (like machetes doing no damage what so ever , crowbar always losing in a battle against fists , and other problems like that that are actual fighting/survival bugs and problems) .

[Daemonkid 493]

A knockout is when enough force is applied to cause the brain the bounce around in your skull. Placement matters. A punch to the back of the head, almost guaranteed. A punch on the chin hard enough? Good chance to cause the brain to slam into the top and back of the skull. Same with a temple shot, but this all varies on the skill and strength of the attacker. 

Like I said, going black and limp is technically a knockout, even if it's for a half a second.  

 

Ingame we're all fuckin' Mike tyson, placement doesn't matter, and we can KO someone in about 2 hits, sometimes less or more. Like I said, argue all you want this DOES need tweaking, it's not fine, like at all.

[shaeg 136]

If you were knocked out that often, you'd be a vegetable.. 

 

 

The brain can only take so much punishment, and being knocked out has cumulative effects on the brain. For every concussion you have, it makes it more and more likely that you'll have another concussion in the future with even less blunt-force-trauma. I've seen matches where someone barely gets grazed by the opponents strike, and his toes curl and he goes out cold because he's been concussed recently or too many times in the past. Many former fighters (boxing, MMA, or martial arts) and football players are punch drunk for the rest of their lives after being knocked out only a handful of times.

 

11 times seems like... a lot.

 

Personally, I've been knocked out one time, and it was to a sucker punch to my temple. Been in countless street fights and did martial arts for 15+ years (Lido Karate, JKD, and Wing Chun).

 

1 punch to ANY part of the head is more than enough to knock someone unconscious; it just depends on how it landed and how prepared the person was for it. There's a saying in striking arts (boxing, etc), that "It's the punch you didn't see coming that knocks you out".. 

This is because if you are in a fist fight with someone and you can see where they are throwing their punches, or if you are even in a martial arts match; you have a few things going for you.

 

1. You have adrenaline pumping

2. You are "prepared" for every strike, because you have agreed to fight and you see most of them coming

3. You can block/parry with your own arms/body

 

When you see punches coming, and you have adrenaline going, you can reduce the damage of the blow by tensing yourself or reflexively "half-dodging", where you allow your face to absorb the hit, by moving it in the direction of the punch.

 

Now remove those factors..

 

1. No adrenaline

2. Unprepared to be hit

3. No blocking/dodging

 

I don't care how big of a tough guy you are, if you aren't ready for me to hit you, and I cold clock you in the side of the temple with straight right hand, and you didn't see that shit coming.. You will drop like a sack of potatoes. (and I will pick up your M4.)

Says person who has never been in competative boxing.

 

I am sorry, but you are wrong. A KO in boxing does not necessarily mean BAM LIGHTS OUT. If the man in stripes feels you have lost any sort of balance or if your vision blurs for a moment and you stumble.. .it is a KO. If I was going to lie I would have said I was fucking bruce lee in the ring and never got KO'd and knocked out everyone else all the time. But that isnt how it happens..

 

Human beings are not made out of glass. Take a boxing class, this is a valuable lesson for any man. We are much more resilient than you think we are.

 

All that side tracking aside.

 

The punching in game is bullshit and needs to be toned down, I shouldn't be able to run up to a fully geared guy strafing and dodging bullets and just ko him and take his stuff. that's fucking dumb ESPECIALLY with people using auto aim and target multihacks being so rampant in the game..they can see you through hills and walls and asll they need to do is get near u 1 2 3 headshots and your down.. its happened to me... 2 guys using multihack found me in middle of woods, killed them... was next town over.. same 2 guys found me in middle of no where... fresh spawns... my friend got all his gear stolen... 

Edited April 21, 2014 by Shaeg

[Valadain 270]

The only problem with punching in this game is there is no blocking.. I read all these guys protesting to compeat in martial arts and yet not one has mentioned the reason they dont get knocked out all the time is there defending themselves blocking rolling with the punches not standing flat footed like a twerp which will get you knocked out quick smart.( If a great deal of your training wasnt in methods of avoidance id get your money back because you were trained to be a knock out dummy )

 

The amount of force required to knock a person out  ( or semi out where the lights are on and no body is home a state that would still make it easy for someone to take your gun away and shoot you) is not all that much if you hit in the right place. A balistic helmet gives zero protection from being knocked out by a punch does it cover your chin( beyond a strap ) nope does it stop your head from snapping back from being struck correctly in the chin ? nope.

 

Thats why there are so many bike helmets in the game these do provide punch protection.

 

PS next time your in game having a fresh spawn vs freshspawn boxing match use the lean function it actually works if timed correctly ( not perfect hit boxes seem a little screwy lol) and being hit from behind is a perfect way to get knocked out so if your dumb enough to let someone get behind you and take a shot then sorry you deserve to get knocked out

 

This is exactly the problem and why Melee in an FPS style game always tends towards sucking. It is even worse in a multi-player FPS style game. The few games that made it pretty decent were single-player games that detect if the enemy is aware of your and if not, plays a melee animation that feels good and solid. You can't do this with a multi-player game as there isn't any way to determine if another player is aware of you.

 

So you get clunky mouse-swinging button-mash-fest.

 

Most real fights don't even end as fist fights, they end as grappling fights, which would be even further beyond clunky with FPS inputs.

 

The bottom line is that SoulFirez is right on here. Without blocking (or some kind of aware/unaware mechanism which is pretty well impossible in multi-player), melee is going to be pretty silly.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Valadain

[IamDinner 28]

Needs a stealth maneuver break neck from behind. Punches should make you drop main weapon and disorientate not kill

 

Disorientate over what duration for how many punches? It would be nice to know in the end once it is stable the thresholds for this stuff.

 

a hand to hand addition to the meleee would be cool with different combos available and counter fighting. Not sure that is possible with this engine maybe others know?

Edited April 21, 2014 by IamDinner

[king_of_the_beans 92]

I think punches are fine at the moment, if you don't believe this all you need to do is to find a muscular guy to punch you in the head 3 times.

[Daemonkid 493]

I think punches are fine at the moment, if you don't believe this all you need to do is to find a muscular guy to punch you in the head 3 times.

Have been multiple times. You get dazed, maybe see stars but you're not on your ass unconscious.  Dazed and slowed, but unconscious you are not.

And i'm a small guy compared to the dudes i've fought, only been knocked out (lights out, not concious) like 3 times. 2 Sucker knockouts and 1 legit KO.

The legit KO was after about 3 minuets of trading blows and blocking.  The suckers were to the back of the head. 

 

Straight to the face punches barring a hard strike to the temple WILL not KO you unless you've been striked a good amount of times during the fight causing the brain to bounce around in your skull. 

The only way I can see the game doing punches properly is if you get punched in the back of the head, almost guaranteed KO. It should take multiple strikes to the face to KO someone. But since we have a crappy melee system in place, we won't see much improvement beyond that. 

[Canned Muffins 82]

I say make it a flip of a coin for the chance of a one hit KO and if the first punch doesn't do it have the second one do the job. We are talking about a game and there is a very very very simple way to not get knocked out and its a common loot item. A motorcycle helmet will prevent a knockout. So there are two things people should take away from being knocked out. The first lesson is do not allow players to get that close to you and be prepared for it regardless. The second lesson is do not think that gear alone will give you the advantage or that any amount of loot will somehow make you better than a player that has a drop on you. I like powerful punches but if the butt hurt sways the hearts and minds of the chumps in the community then by all means allow one or two hits to do the job. If I had control Id say let assassination or choke moves be allowed for players who sneak up behind people. Snapping a neck or choking someone who is unaware is very possible.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Canned Muffins

[gibonez 3633]

Easy solution would be a power punch and jab system.

 

Hold the mouse button down for a charge up hook punch. If it connects to the head = knockout.

 

Simply tapping the punch button = jabs that hurt but do not cause knockouts.

 

Missing a hook causes you to be vulnerable for .5 seconds while you recover from the swing.

[king_of_the_beans 92]

Easy solution would be a power punch and jab system.

 

Hold the mouse button down for a charge up hook punch. If it connects to the head = knockout.

 

Simply tapping the punch button = jabs that hurt but do not cause knockouts.

 

Missing a hook causes you to be vulnerable for .5 seconds while you recover from the swing.

Or press your mouse button as fast as you can like in cod

 

[Etherimp 1323]

Says person who has never been in competative boxing.

 

I am sorry, but you are wrong. A KO in boxing does not necessarily mean BAM LIGHTS OUT. If the man in stripes feels you have lost any sort of balance or if your vision blurs for a moment and you stumble.. .it is a KO. If I was going to lie I would have said I was fucking bruce lee in the ring and never got KO'd and knocked out everyone else all the time. But that isnt how it happens..

 

Human beings are not made out of glass. Take a boxing class, this is a valuable lesson for any man. We are much more resilient than you think we are.

 

All that side tracking aside.

 

The punching in game is bullshit and needs to be toned down, I shouldn't be able to run up to a fully geared guy strafing and dodging bullets and just ko him and take his stuff. that's fucking dumb ESPECIALLY with people using auto aim and target multihacks being so rampant in the game..they can see you through hills and walls and asll they need to do is get near u 1 2 3 headshots and your down.. its happened to me... 2 guys using multihack found me in middle of woods, killed them... was next town over.. same 2 guys found me in middle of no where... fresh spawns... my friend got all his gear stolen... 

 

 

As much as I respect your ability to pace around in circles in front of another "trained" competitor and jab countless times, hug each other when you get tired, and not worry about kicks or being taken down while you fling 8 ounce pillows covering your fists at each other... I don't really see how your fighting experience reflects how punching should function in the game, where your character has 0 gloves on.

 

The only time I brought up boxing was in reference to getting concussed and eventually punch drunk after being hit in the head too many times. 

I know you don't really see it often in MMA or in the boxing ring, but in street fights, 1 punch knockouts are more the rule than the exception due to dozens of factors which we could discuss in length away from these forums, if you desire. 

[shaeg 136]

As much as I respect your ability to pace around in circles in front of another "trained" competitor and jab countless times, hug each other when you get tired, and not worry about kicks or being taken down while you fling 8 ounce pillows covering your fists at each other... I don't really see how your fighting experience reflects how punching should function in the game, where your character has 0 gloves on.

 

The only time I brought up boxing was in reference to getting concussed and eventually punch drunk after being hit in the head too many times. 

I know you don't really see it often in MMA or in the boxing ring, but in street fights, 1 punch knockouts are more the rule than the exception due to dozens of factors which we could discuss in length away from these forums, if you desire. 

not worry about kicks?

 

KICK BOXING 

 

And kick boxing gloves arent to protect the other persons face. They are to protect your hands. Let someone punch you with some on, tell me if it feels any better than being hit in the face with a fist. I brought up kickboxing to prove a point that people dont just get KO'd that easily... ESPECIALLY people who are aware of being attacked as in most cases of DayZ... If you really think this 3 hit KO is realistic in dayz then you are beyond logic and reasoning with.  

 

Not everyone has a ballistic helmet laying around... but if u have a baseball helmet or hard hat in your garage.... have a friend put it on..... then punch him in the head. Post a video here and show us what happens. Would love to see this ;) in fact here are some for you guys...

 

MOTORBIKE HELMETS

 

Motorcycle Helmet (notice very brief recovery time on kid with helemt on, and the size of the man hitting him.)

 

 

Hands are hurting this guy through gloves.

 

I checked for some ballistic helmet vids vs melee combat with no luck. But they are much harder than a motorcycle helmet... they are designed to stop bullets. There is the open face.. but really if your being attacked... your subconscious usually causes you to turn your head to the side or down.. there is no argument here. Just pointing out that if you want this game to be realistic... remove this Ezmode-KO crap

 

this is unrelated but check out the 45ACP damage

[Etherimp 1323]

not worry about kicks?

 

KICK BOXING 

 

And kick boxing gloves arent to protect the other persons face. They are to protect your hands. Let someone punch you with some on, tell me if it feels any better than being hit in the face with a fist. I brought up kickboxing to prove a point that people dont just get KO'd that easily... ESPECIALLY people who are aware of being attacked as in most cases of DayZ... If you really think this 3 hit KO is realistic in dayz then you are beyond logic and reasoning with.  

 

Not everyone has a ballistic helmet laying around... but if u have a baseball helmet or hard hat in your garage.... have a friend put it on..... then punch him in the head. Post a video here and show us what happens. Would love to see this ;) in fact here are some for you guys...

 

 

 

Are you a competitive boxer or kickboxer? Because you said 

 

 

Says person who has never been in competative boxing.

 

Then you bring up kickboxing as though that was what you were referring to all along... And now on with this stuff about motorcycle helmets.

 

Have you been hit in the head too many times? To me it looks like you're talking completely out of your ass. None of your videos contradict my original point:

 

Getting hit bare fisted in the head while you are not expecting it will often result in a knock-out.

 

What are you on about with the bike helmets and shit? Nobody is talking about bike helmets. They protect you from being knocked out in the game.

 

 

For the record, I've been punched and kicked with and without gloves. I've also hit and been hit without gloves, and while getting punched with ANYTHING is not a pleasant experience, my odds of busting your eye or mouth open with bare-fists is much greater than if I were wearing 8 ounce boxing gloves. 

My bare fists create a smaller surface area by which (roughly) the same amount of kinetic force can pass through and enter your face.

 

The power of my punch + the small surface area of my knuckles = Greater kinetic energy in a smaller area than The power of my punch + 8 ounce gloves where the surface area is spread around the whole back of the glove, as well as cushioning the force through padding.

 

The "button" on someones chin is small. The temple is small. I'm 5'10" and about 175.. If I hit a heavy-weight in the temple or on the button with a MEDIUM powered punch, with my knuckles, with no gloves, and they didn't see it coming and were unable to react to defend it, THEY WILL GO OUT.

 

Sorry, but you're not going to win this "debate".

Edited April 22, 2014 by Etherimp

[shaeg 136]

lel.... when do you not expect being punched in dayz? it is a rare occurrence.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Shaeg