Why does the cross bow do more damage than the m4?

[gibonez 3633]

Yeah but an M4 doesn't use 7.62x51mm rounds, it's are a lot weaker.

No way should they do anything close to the same rounds a Mosin or SKS uses.

Never said anything about the 7.62 rounds they're pretty much ok nothing can rapid fire 40 of them so it's not too overpowered to have them but an M4 just takes no skill to use and does too much damage, with all the gear people wear it shouldn't mutilate them in a couple of shots.

The amount of damage a 5.56 round would do to a human versus a 7.62x51mm is minimal.

Where the caliber round matters is bucking the wind getting deeper penetrative properties on animals and on structures.

Humans are soft weak lumps of flesh pretty much any rifle round is devastating to our bodies.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Yeah but an M4 doesn't use 7.62x51mm rounds, it's are a lot weaker.

No way should they do anything close to the same rounds a Mosin or SKS uses.

 

Never said anything about the 7.62 rounds they're pretty much ok nothing can rapid fire 40 of them so it's not too overpowered to have them but an M4 just takes no skill to use and does too much damage, with all the gear people wear it shouldn't mutilate them in a couple of shots.

I...what?

YES, IT SHOULD. That is what the bullet does in real life!

I think you are confused, you have to be. 

THIS GAME IS NOT MEANT TO BE BALANCED. A RIFLE KILLING SOMETHING IS NOT "OVERPOWERED"

Weaker in what fashion? Yes, a 5.56mm has lower energy, but the other benefits outweigh sheer knockdown ability.

The older M855 5.56mm bullets had a higher muzzle velocity than the M80 7.62mm NATO bullets, with half the weight, higher penetration, flatter trajectory, lower recoil. The 5.56mm outperformed the 7.62mm NATO in almost every category except for energy, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

So why even have other weapons then?

Why don't the devs just delete them all since everyone should just use an M4 :lol:

 

Devastating and yet people survive getting shot quite often.

 

 

I'm not saying a shot to an organ, the chest or the head doesn't do anything but it doesn't just always do more damage than a bolt does, there are plenty cases of soldiers being shot and continuing to run, an arrow going through someone takes them the crap down they have way more of an impact than a non high calibre bullet does.

 

Maybe not a statistical impact but an impact for the one getting shot, people can adrenaline themselves through gunshots quite easily and collapse later but a bolt or arrow does not allow that you can't run with one through your leg, your muscles constantly contracting around a foreign object and said object moving around adding to the pain after a bullet is in someone it doesn't do anything else when someone adjusts to the pain they can keep going until they collapse.

[Whyherro123 2283]

So why even have other weapons then?

Why don't the devs just delete them all since everyone should just use an M4 :lol:

 

Devastating and yet people survive getting shot quite often.

 

 

I'm not saying a shot to an organ, the chest or the head doesn't do anything but it doesn't just always do more damage than a bolt does, there are plenty cases of soldiers being shot and continuing to run, an arrow going through someone takes them the crap down they have way more of an impact than a non high calibre bullet does.

 

Maybe not a statistical impact but an impact for the one getting shot, people can adrenaline themselves through gunshots quite easily and collapse later but a bolt or arrow does not allow that you can't run with one through your leg, your muscles constantly contracting around a foreign object and said object moving around adding to the pain after a bullet is in someone it doesn't do anything else when someone adjusts to the pain they can keep going until they collapse.

IRL, you can't run with a shattered femur either.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

IRL, you can't run with a shattered femur either.

True but a bullet still has to hit a bone or something important to achieve that kind of effect a bolt just does that.

 

So in game it should be one chest hit = knockdown and one leg hit = limping

Then you still have to go up and finish them off at which point they could have turned and aimed their gun at you, so it's a very powerful weapon in game but people falling victim to it still have a chance.

[Whyherro123 2283]

True but a bullet still has to hit a bone or something important to achieve that kind of effect a bolt just does that.

 

So in game it should be one chest hit = knockdown and one leg hit = limping

Then you still have to go up and finish them off at which point they could have turned and aimed their gun at you, so it's a very powerful weapon in game but people falling victim to it still have a chance.

....

I don't think you truly understand the forces at play that occur when a bullet enters your flesh.

The 5.56mm is considered a high velocity round. So long as you get hit far enough away from the point of firing, it doesn't matter if the round hits a bone or not,  because of the sheer destructive forces the bullet creates in your flesh.

Hell, a bullet doesn't even have to have particularly high velocity to cause truly awful damage. Look at a musket; relatively low velocity (900-1200m/s, dependent on the powder charge, if I remember correctly). My friend shot a deer in the upper shoulder from about 80-90m, the deer dropped almost immediately.

The .69 caliber ball vaporized the majority of the shoulder blade, and blew a hole in the body I could fit a fist inside comfortably. Now, there are several major differences between an 18th century blackpowder muzzleloading unrifled longarm and a modern M4, but the point still stands. If that was a crossbow (which, coincidentally, are illegal to use in my state, unless you are disabled, due to the inhumane wounds it causes), the bolt would have likely bounced right off, the deer would have run away, and we would have had to track a wounded (possibly not fatally) animal across rough terrain until it died from blood loss. The musket killed it almost instantly.

[Chawktah 43]

The Crossbow as it is now, in .44 or whatever, feels underpowered in my experience. It can be almost impossible to see them in flight and see where the weapon shoots. Then your lucky if you can find the bolt. With the acog on, forget about it. 

[gibonez 3633]

Every time I hear the word balance I cringe .

[nexventor 429]

 The real question is "why is the 5.56 so weak?"

 

Exactly, I have no problem with the bow killing in one shot, I don't think it should but I wouldn't care if it did. However the question has to be asked why the hell does it take so many 5.56 rounds to kill. I don't want to hear BS things like "balance", this is not CoD. If you want balance then make the other weapons do more damage. The person who shoots and hits first should win 99% of the time. This 360 no scope CoD rubbish only ruins the experience.

 

Look at how many bullets I put into this guy before he drops. I put 7 bullets into him at point blank and he still lifts his axe to come at me bro!

http://youtu.be/j-x6I2e2Vls?t=10m15s

[gibonez 3633]

Exactly, I have no problem with the bow killing in one shot, I don't think it should but I wouldn't care if it did. However the question has to be asked why the hell does it take so many 5.56 rounds to kill. I don't want to hear BS things like "balance", this is not CoD. If you want balance then make the other weapons do more damage. The person who shoots and hits first should win 99% of the time. This 360 no scope CoD rubbish only ruins the experience.

 

Look at how many bullets I put into this guy before he drops. I put 7 bullets into him at point blank and he still lifts his axe to come at me bro!

http://youtu.be/j-x6I2e2Vls?t=10m15s

 

M4 should be a 1-2 hit tops to incapacitate people.

[nexventor 429]

M4 should be a 1-2 hit tops to incapacitate people.

 

Totally agreed especially at that range. I put 4 bullets into a dude yesterday only to have him turn around and shoot me once with his sks and he broke my legs. I killed him but still ridiculous.

 

I had the advantage, I shot him first and if his shot was better I could have been knocked unconco or even worse killed all in the name of balance, that's not balance that's BS. God I cringe too.

Edited May 5, 2014 by NexVentor

[Gabe Newell 45]

Gabe, my beloved valve gluttony master.  A "low energy" bullet like a 9mm fmj has about 4x the energy of a bolt fired from a 150 lb crossbow...  A .308 has close to 30x the energy of the same bolt...  Velocity is an extremely important factor in determining the amount of energy an object has...

 

1/2mv^2

 

m855a1 out of a m16a4 produces (62gr 3,150+ fps) 1370 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle...

 

425gr arrow fired out of the "Tactical Assault Crossbow" at 400 fps shown in the video linked a couple pages back produces 151 ft/lbs of energy...

 

"Penetration" has far more to do with center sectional density and composition of the projectile.

 

 

As for "lethality" an arrow or bolt is far more efficient in terms of required energy to sever tissue, so it's not as simple as just comparing KE.

Some bullets are more aerodynamic, which gives them more velocity and energy than arrows can have.

[SGT. Kalme 106]

If they did it for that they would use a compound bow, crossbows require no challenge hence why in my home state Illinois crossbows are only to be used by handicapped people during bow season.

I use slightly recurved longbow.

[makomachine 263]

So why even have other weapons then?

Why don't the devs just delete them all since everyone should just use an M4 :lol:

Devastating and yet people survive getting shot quite often.

I'm not saying a shot to an organ, the chest or the head doesn't do anything but it doesn't just always do more damage than a bolt does, there are plenty cases of soldiers being shot and continuing to run, an arrow going through someone takes them the crap down they have way more of an impact than a non high calibre bullet does.

Maybe not a statistical impact but an impact for the one getting shot, people can adrenaline themselves through gunshots quite easily and collapse later but a bolt or arrow does not allow that you can't run with one through your leg, your muscles constantly contracting around a foreign object and said object moving around adding to the pain after a bullet is in someone it doesn't do anything else when someone adjusts to the pain they can keep going until they collapse.

I wish people that never have hunted or used these weapons would quit chiming in. This statement is ludicrous - turn on ANY big game hunting show and give me an example of ANY big game animal that fell instantly upon being shot with a bolt/arrow that wasn't hit in the spine/brain. I'll say it again for clarity - arrows kill by hemorrhage, not knockdown power, "penetration", or otherwise. I've got a scar on my right hand where I nearly shoved a broadhead all the way through my hand and cut two tendons. Didn't hurt at all at the moment - but bled like nobodies business. Bleeding is how you die with these weapons - any other thoughts indicates someone has watched too much Lord of the Rings.

Bullets shot at high velocity kill by shock. Small caliber bullets shot at high velocities (like the M4) hitting a mans chest cavity are extremely damaging. They don't mushroom or kill from a .22 sized hole - they liquefy organs in the vicinity. Man is a very fragile beast - the M4 is nerfed, as a single shot to the chest cavity would be devastating and fatal in all but the rarest of circumstances.

People die in battle of shock, hemorrhage, and suffocation (deflated lungs). We are actually very easy to kill - but rarely fall to one shot or upon impact - even though that one shot likely will result in our death.

Edited May 5, 2014 by makomachine

[SGT. Kalme 106]

It has been posted. Why people don't want to understand? Will a gunshot kill you when vital area is hit? Yes, of course. Will an arrow kill you when hit to a vital area? Obviously.

Smaller bullet can cause more damage. The shape of a bullet is not mean to cut through - but smaller caliber bullet due to lesser energy, is more likely to be stopped inside body and rip the wound open while bigger round has more energy to penetrate the body completely leaving clean wound - as clean as a bullet can leave.

Arrow is meant to cut. Cut through the flesh, vessels, organs. Construction of broadhead shows that it couldn't cause damage similar to a say .223 round. Due to the much better ability to penetrate, it goes through animal body when bullet doesn't. That is because arrow lacks kinetic energy to cause a killing shock. Blunts are only used for small game whereas it has enough energy to kill. For a big game, it is quite useless. As you see two type of weapons use different mechanics to cause damage. And the damage is different. In DayZ damage is calculated in too simple way to make them differ.

Both shots can kill you at once. Both shots can leave you alive. Go ahead and try to implement that into DayZ.

[taco86 156]

Some bullets are more aerodynamic, which gives them more velocity and energy than arrows can have.

The only bullet in common use that has a "comparable" energy level to that of a bolt/arrow is the .22lr...  Even the .17 hmr has over 2x the energy of your typical 150 lb xbow...

 

I've given you the equation, and explained the physics... it's completely on you to accept reality or to keep trolling.

Edited May 5, 2014 by taco86

[Grimey Rick 3417]

How is this thread still going?

 

Tension-based weaponry (in this case, arrows/bolts) have much better penetration than bullets (in this case the 5.56x45mm variant). Due to heavier weight, better transfer of momentum and a solid pointed tip that doesn't shred upon impact like a bullet, they have been known to penetrate bullet-proof vests at speeds as low as 75 m/s. They have ridiculous stopping power.

 

However, bullets exert a much greater force on impact. In the case of the 5.56x45mm variant, depending on several circumstances it may yaw and fragment at the cannelure. If the fragments are entering soft tissue, the damage is catastrophic. For this reason, the 5.56x45mm round is extremely effective at incapacitating people.

 

Which one does the most damage? I dunno. I just know it'd suck balls to be shot by either of them.

[GunnyITA 107]

Gabe, my beloved valve gluttony master.  A "low energy" bullet like a 9mm fmj has about 4x the energy of a bolt fired from a 150 lb crossbow...  A .308 has close to 30x the energy of the same bolt...  Velocity is an extremely important factor in determining the amount of energy an object has...

 

1/2mv^2

 

m855a1 out of a m16a4 produces (62gr 3,150+ fps) 1370 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle...

 

425gr arrow fired out of the "Tactical Assault Crossbow" at 400 fps shown in the video linked a couple pages back produces 151 ft/lbs of energy...

 

"Penetration" has far more to do with center sectional density and composition of the projectile.

 

 

As for "lethality" an arrow or bolt is far more efficient in terms of required energy to sever tissue, so it's not as simple as just comparing KE.

 

 

quote!

[Gabe Newell 45]

The only bullet in common use that has a "comparable" energy level to that of a bolt/arrow is the .22lr...  Even the .17 hmr has over 2x the energy of your typical 150 lb xbow...

 

I've given you the equation, and explained the physics... it's completely on you to accept reality or to keep trolling.

Not being aware or not knowing something isn't trolling.