Can Nothing be done about MetaGaming in Dayz?

[War Path 26]

Ok enough whinning about  the way other people use 3party chat this is getting old you dont hear them in game so quit snivveling on how they play the game. You play how it is enjoyable to you and I will play how it is enjoyable to me.If you are that fracking nosey  that you have to hear what everyone is talking about in a game make your own game.If you want extreme realism then do not play viedo games.Go outside and expirence life.

 

 

 

My 2cents but meh....

[gibonez 3633]

Ok enough whinning about  the way other people use 3party chat this is getting old you dont hear them in game so quit snivveling on how they play the game. You play how it is enjoyable to you and I will play how it is enjoyable to me.If you are that fracking nosey  that you have to hear what everyone is talking about in a game make your own game.If you want extreme realism then do not play viedo games.Go outside and expirence life.

 

 

 

My 2cents but meh....

 

Dayz is the counter game. It is the anti game and realism achieves that.

 

People did not support dayz from its first weeks as a mod because they wanted just another video game.

 

They did because they wanted the most unforgiving, brutal things they can get. They want disentary, they want diseases they want a harsh and unforgiving environment and to achieve that they need to encourage in game comms and disable third party comms somehow.

 

It is vital for dayz.

[pillock 850]

They want disentary, they want diseases they want a harsh and unforgiving environment and to achieve that they need to encourage in game comms and disable third party comms somehow.

 

 

How about, if you use 3rd party comms, the game gives your character dysentery?

[War Path 26]

So a open wolrd sand box GAME where the player plays how it is enjoyable for them.(baring hacking) But must conform to the elitiest realism fanatics to play how they see fit ?

Then in game comms should be what? One language so everyone can understand whats being said ? Because you would not want someone to have a unfair avantage in speaking in a language you cant understand..(ya thats sarcasim)..I look at it this way every avantage i get in game mechanics and communications  be it in game or 3rd party chat   (baring hacking) is a tactic. Yes most will use everything at thier disposal to get a tactical advantage.

[akafugitive 244]

So a open wolrd sand box GAME where the player plays how it is enjoyable for them.(baring hacking) But must conform to the elitiest realism fanatics to play how they see fit ?

Then in game comms should be what? One language so everyone can understand whats being said ? Because you would not want someone to have a unfair avantage in speaking in a language you cant understand..(ya thats sarcasim)..I look at it this way every avantage i get in game mechanics and communications be it in game or 3rd party chat (baring hacking) is a tactic. Yes most will use everything at thier disposal to get a tactical advantage.

Everything you are able to do correct. Hence why this thread is opening up conversation on the opposing position to limit things like this. If you didnt need to eat/bandage/find ammo would you? What you find enjoyable someone else may not.

Accolyte already addressed the why, and it's not to protect your play style, it's because their isn't much point. The dev team spent time creating in game radios, do you honestly think they don't want people using them over other sources?

Edited April 15, 2014 by akafugitive

[hefeweizen 254]

I come a particular competitive game where the only way to go higher was to master the engine's quirks and glitches. There was no helping it, everyone used the glitches because the devs didn't fix them. 

 

If you refuse to use the game to the fullest, you are some sort of apologist. Who are you apologizing to? The only people that judge you are other players, and that's who you're trying to beat.

...and this game is in Alpha. They can fix those "quirks and glitches" and with continued support they can do their best to discourage any new ones that arise. That is part of being a high quality gaming studio.

I played Chivalry: Medieval Warfare competitively and that entire damn game is about abusing glitches. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be a much, much better game if the glitches were fixed. It just means Torn Banner is too terrible of studio to come up with a solution, or too chicken sh** to fix the glitches in fear of angering the "hardcore" or as the rest of us like to call them "neckbeards". Good studios make changes to their game when meta-gaming becomes more important to victory than actual in game play.

Also, ScruffyBandit is totally right about your warped sense of morality. By your logic baseball players who didn't dope before it was outlawed were the ones at blame for not leading the league in home runs. Its their fault they didn't use whatever means at their disposal, no matter how questionable the means were or how generally looked down upon it was.

Someone who does whatever it takes to win might be good at competition itself, but that same person is not someone who you want coming up with the rules in the first place. Because hell, making the rules unfair is just good strategy, am I right?

[hefeweizen 254]

If they disabled VoIP programs from being run while in DayZ, my wife and I would still be able to communicate with one another as we're in the same room. What's next, forcing me to renovate my house and provide pictures of said renovation before I can accept DayZ's EULA?

I don't disagree with you on the subject at hand, disabling 3rd part VOIP just isn't an option. But this logic is specious, at best. Just because a law doesn't stop a crime all together, doesn't mean it has no merit or shouldn't exist. Using the "perfect", to stop progress of what is merely "good" is how crooked politicians get stupid people to accept their sh**y lot in life.

[blowurselfup 54]

for the OP

 

1. Get over it...players will use 3rd party comms no matter what

 

2. Get over it...once the night play is optimized I don't think it will be a big problem

 

3. Get over it...set it how you like it

Edited April 15, 2014 by blowurselfup

[gibonez 3633]

So a open wolrd sand box GAME where the player plays how it is enjoyable for them.(baring hacking) But must conform to the elitiest realism fanatics to play how they see fit ?

Then in game comms should be what? One language so everyone can understand whats being said ? Because you would not want someone to have a unfair avantage in speaking in a language you cant understand..(ya thats sarcasim)..I look at it this way every avantage i get in game mechanics and communications  be it in game or 3rd party chat   (baring hacking) is a tactic. Yes most will use everything at thier disposal to get a tactical advantage.

 

This has nothing to do with an unfair advantage or not this is about encouraging and thus making in game communication valid.

 

Only way to do this is to disallow 3rd party coms.

[Scott61 93]

I personally don't bother trying to use wall glitches or anything else,I don't do PvP!

If I see someone,I hide or run like hell  :D 

 

I myself would definately like to see walls get hard so nobody can lean or whatever you do to stick your head out the wall,be nice to see a fix for looking over walls by panning your camera or around corners but those two 3pp faults I can personally live with and believe if everyone else can and is obviously doing it why would I not

 

I have no guilt lmao,I also play this game as a survialist nothing more and stick to myself as I find I live longer

I'm always willing to be friendly,and have been shot in the face,the back and everything else MANY TIMES...do to my good nature and from not being into this KoS mindset that the majority in this game feel that's what the games about in DayZ although I do also believe in to each there own as I happen to live in a free country where each individual can make there own choices!

 

So don't think for a minute I have some kind of guilt,or that I cheat and use exploits such as wall glitching to KoS anyone

You do not know me,yet seem to assume things about me from a simple post!

 

3pp and wall glitching aren't the same thing, but when it comes to glitching the walls to turn them invisible:

 

Just because everyone COULD cheat, doesn't mean they will or should. I'd prefer you didn't project your guilt onto me or the others in this thread.

When it comes to clipping your camera into a wall to turn that wall invisible, that's exploitation of a glitch and I'm sure any fair minded person would consider it cheating. 

 

Some of us understand sportsmanship. B)

 

 

I too like 3pp for the very same reasons,and yes I also would like to see only and be seen only when you could really see or be seen in RL

Although a game is a game to me nothing more,meant for fun nothing more

 

myself just the wall,head sticking through glitch would be ok to fix for sure but I personally do not care if others can see over a wall or around a corner as that has been going on in games ever since they come out.Although it would be cool to have that corrected if possible,but not a game breaking fault IMHO

 

I like 3rd person, I like viewing my own character but I DONT LIKE people seeing me (or me seeing them) when Im not supposed to. Those who only like 1st person are already playing HC and dont give a shit about this issue anymore. Problem is with the rest of us who enjoys looking at our character, clothes, movements and animations but then have to put up with a game breaking wallhack problem. So we politely ask for a solution. The question here is not if 3pp-wallers-yes/3pp-wallers-no, the only question here is "which solution we use" and "how many resources will take", because I dont think anyone could defend wallers as a legit way given the realistic nature of the game.

 

Not that Im saying is not fair, it is fair since we all use it. But the problem doesnt go away just because we all beneficiate from it. See this, if we all had god mode that would also be fair, doesn't it? but would you play a game like that? specially if its intended to be realistic?

[Scott61 93]

Well said!

 

So a open wolrd sand box GAME where the player plays how it is enjoyable for them.(baring hacking) But must conform to the elitiest realism fanatics to play how they see fit ?

Then in game comms should be what? One language so everyone can understand whats being said ? Because you would not want someone to have a unfair avantage in speaking in a language you cant understand..(ya thats sarcasim)..I look at it this way every avantage i get in game mechanics and communications  be it in game or 3rd party chat   (baring hacking) is a tactic. Yes most will use everything at thier disposal to get a tactical advantage.

[hefeweizen 254]

for the OP

 

1. Get over it...players will use 3rd party comms no matter what

 

2. Get over it...once the night play is optimized I don't think it will be a big problem

 

3. Get over it...set it how you like it

1. No, this is what we're talking about in this thread, quit being a douche. Yes, people will use 3rd party VOIP no matter what, the idea is to transmit over local chat anything that goes through the mic. Forcing always on. The dev in this thread said something about bandwidth, but it seemed like a fairly flimsy excuse.

 

2. No, this is what we're talking about in this thread, quit being a douche. You're wrong, people will still exploit gamma if it is adjustable in game. Might as well figure out a solution as early in the alpha as possible. Probably an options menu revamp with certain things restricted to title screen, or only taking effect after a fresh spawn.

 

3. No, this is what we're talking about in this thread, quit being a douche. See #2, but replace gamma with FoV.

[Accolyte 1727]

The dev in this thread said something about bandwidth, but it seemed like a fairly flimsy excuse.

 

Sigh..  :rolleyes:

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

The dev in this thread said something about bandwidth, but it seemed like a fairly flimsy excuse.

Considering I was just on a server with 30ish people playing, handing out firearms to newspawns on their way to Electro only to have one of them cut off mid sentence and then the remainder of the message play back all of 5 minutes later (which scared the shit out of me by the way), I do believe them when they say bandwidth is a major concern.

[gibonez 3633]

Sigh..  :rolleyes:

 

Is it potentially possible for the game to detect if 3rd party chat apps are running ?

 

if so then dayz could tell the player to turn them off so they can continue to play.

[Irish. 4886]

So much logic fail.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

Is it potentially possible for the game to detect if 3rd party chat apps are running ?

 

if so then dayz could tell the player to turn them off so they can continue to play.

I'm sure it is *possible* but it's bordering on being spyware.

 

Plus, I often have Skype running in the background while playing DayZ and I don't even have any DayZ players on my skype friends list, I don't see why DayZ should be permitted to tell me what I can and cannot do with the perfectly legitimate software on my computer.

 

Now, I do use TS3 when I'm playing with friends, I freely admit that. However there are currently no real in game alternatives, add in throat mics, earpieces and expand on the gesture system and I'd most likely use that, simply for immersion.

It's morally shaky ground to tell people what other legal and legitimate software they can use on their computer while playing a game and even if we're willing to accept that, it wouldn't stop anyone in a world where everyone has numerous computer systems ranging from desktops to smart phones, I have my laptop running when I'm playing DayZ anyway, for checking the map... it would take me all of 2 minutes to work around any block on voice over IP software, if I wanted to that is.

 

The solution as I said before isn't to force people to stop using it, because that's impossible... it's to give people a viable alternative, maybe they won't use it but at least those who do won't be at a massive disadvantage anymore.

Edited April 15, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[hefeweizen 254]

Sigh..  :rolleyes:

Sorry man, but it wasn't really a definite answer as to why it shouldn't be talked about as a possibility. Sure, issues can/would definitely arise server side and from a QA perspective it might be a nightmare. But QA guys always say everything is a nightmare and won't work. Then the engineers do it anyway and QA guys have to make it work. Circle of life.

Something more substantial as far as why it definitely couldn't be done, after bandwidth is optimized and the servers aren't so stressed, after loot spawns, after zombie/animal numbers go up to release levels, after all the sweet a** survival mechanics are working properly, after vehicles and base building are nearing completion. After all that, and assuming the bandwidth found to support everyone having their mic on constantly, (which I would hope would be possible, as everyone using their mics at the same time crashing a server would be a pretty terrible bug) what would be the negative effect on the game play be?

I haven't really heard an compelling answer to why it would be a negative thing, just how people would go out of their way to get around it or how it would be a chore to implement. Both of which don't seem to out way the net benefit of such a change.

[Daemonkid 493]

Would it be possible to have a separate program running alongside Dayz that detects and closes thirdparty COMMS running on the computer (ie. Skype)? Is this even legal?

Easier solution, Dayz detects these programs and refuses to launch while activated.

:D

[hefeweizen 254]

Considering I was just on a server with 30ish people playing, handing out firearms to newspawns on their way to Electro only to have one of them cut off mid sentence and then the remainder of the message play back all of 5 minutes later (which scared the shit out of me by the way), I do believe them when they say bandwidth is a major concern.

Well, I assume a lot of that is because of the alpha nature of the game. Come release time, I would hope servers under a hundred people would have bandwidth to spare.

[gibonez 3633]

I'm sure it is *possible* but it's bordering on being spyware.

 

Plus, I often have Skype running in the background while playing DayZ and I don't even have any DayZ players on my skype friends list, I don't see why DayZ should be permitted to tell me what I can and cannot do with the perfectly legitimate software on my computer.

 

 

It wouldn't be out of the ordinary, in ace servers detect if you have acre running or not if you do not the server automatically kicks you out.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

It wouldn't be out of the ordinary, in ace servers detect if you have acre running or not if you do not the server automatically kicks you out.

There's a big difference between "you need to use this software to join the game" and "You must not use *list of programs here*" though.

 

Anyways, If I want to skype call my friend down under while playing some video games, why shouldn't I? I payed for my computer I don't much care for someone else telling me how I can use it. We're not talking about third party programs that interact with the games files, such as hack kits, so typical terms of use agreements wouldn't be applicable.

 

It could also have a knock on effect for streamers (which would be a silver lining! :lol:) since they're technically using a form of 3rd party communications software too.

 

It's completely unworkable as far as I'm concerned and even if something like this that did get pushed through, the player base would work around it withing half an hour.  It's a losing battle, no matter how I look at it.

 

I'd rather the devs didn't waste their time on a losing battle like VOIP and instead focused on things like wall leaning/peaking, redesigning objects so that they provide the same level of concealment regardless of graphical settings and the FoV thing.

Edited April 15, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[hefeweizen 254]

There's a big difference between "you need to use this software to join the game" and "You must not use *list of programs here*" though.

Well, there is already a list like that, it just isn't for VOIP services. But your point is valid.

Though off topic, this conversation really make me want a survival/sandbox game where features like this are on the Steam main page so people couldn't get bent outta shape about them. A game that plainly and openly went the the extra mile to discourage meta-gaming and deliver a deeply immersive experience that fostered systems to encourage and reward play without the aid of Wiki's, tutorials, VOIP or message boards could be a big selling point to a lot of people. It's 2014 and every game has a meta-game and theorycrafters now, a game that went out of its way to "meta-hard" would be an interesting prospect.

Sounds impossible, but damn it I'd chip in for that games kickstarter.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Hefeweizen

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

Well, there is already a list like that, it just isn't for VOIP services. But your point is valid.

Though off topic, this conversation really make me want a survival/sandbox game where features like this are on the Steam main page so people couldn't get bent outta shape about them. A game that plainly and openly went the the extra mile to discourage meta-gaming and deliver a deeply immersive experience that fostered systems to encourage and reward play without the aid of Wiki's, tutorials, VOIP or message boards could be a big selling point to a lot of people. It's 2014 and every game has a meta-game and theorycrafters now, a game that went out of its way to "meta-hard" would be an interesting prospect.

Sounds impossible, but damn it I'd chip in for that games kickstarter.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like it if everyone played DayZ without the meta-stuff like third person and voip, where people roleplayed and valued the life of the character rather than just the equipment that character had. Given an in game whisper quiet radio system for example, I'd use that over VOIP software.

 

I just don't see it happening. There's always going to be someone who breaks that mold because they want to win and once that happens, it snowballs into an arms race to get and maintain parity.

Edited April 15, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[Snowball (DayZ) 115]

Don't get me wrong, I'd like it if everyone played DayZ without the meta-stuff like third person and voip, where people roleplayed and valued the life of the character rather than just the equipment that character had. Given an in game whisper quiet radio system for example, I'd use that over VOIP software.

 

I just don't see it happening. There's always going to be someone who breaks that mold because they want to win and once that happens, it snowballs into an arms race to get and maintain parity.

You called for me? :p

I completely agree with you. Given that I'm also a supporter of preventing people from racing back to their dead bodies after they've been killed. A sort of "new life rule" (for the Gmod roleplayers) if you will.

Sadly, I estimate chances these things that prevent third party comms will ever be implemented little to nil. Most people don't want to play DayZ in a hard, RP-style way. And for these things to be actually implemented there has to be a big group in the community who wants that, which at the moment, there is not such group.