Can Nothing be done about MetaGaming in Dayz?

[yorkmorgan 191]

Three Problems:

1. Third Party COMMS

2. Brightness/Gamma Exploit

3. FOV Exploit

 

Why are these Problems?

1. Prevents eavesdropping, makes silent gestures useless, negates the need for stealth, gives groups of friends an enormous advantage, makes all forms of in game radio pointless/gimmicky.

2. Has destroyed night-time only serves. Exploiters don't use the flashlight.

3. Gives players 'bino-vision'. Makes the max zoom on scopes ridiculous.

 

To sum up: These problems ruin realism and put legitimate players at a huge disadvantage. 

 

I've read a lot of people saying that nothing can be done about these issues and while its obvious that they cannot be completely removed (friends can still talk over the phone if they really want) surely there are things that can be done to make doing these things much less convenient.

 

Here are my questions regarding 1. I would appreciate it if people don't give answers that they cannot back up.

 

1.i) Would it be possible to disable steamchat in game OR make it so all steamchat is also broadcast in game?

ii) Would it be possible to have a separate program running alongside Dayz that detects and closes thirdparty COMMS running on the computer (ie. Skype)? Is this even legal?

 

Suggestion Regarding 2&3:

Surely the ingame FOV/BrighnessΓ adjusters can be removed and replaced by a system where launching Dayz first brings up a menu with 'Play Dayz' and 'Adjust Settings' Options. Clicking 'Play Dayz' would mean the settings cannot be changed until the game is closed and launched again. Clicking 'Adjust Setting' would walk you though setting up your values to make your monitor well represent the devs desired 'vision'. So for Brightness and Gamma there could be a selection of pictures and you adjust your settings until you can barely see X and not see Y atall for example. And for FOV you adjust it until you can just see X in the corner of your screen for example.

Would this be effective?

 

Thanks for reading. Any suggestions and opinions appreciated.

 

EDIT:

From the great response here are the conclusions I've drawn:

 

1. Sadly (but very understandably) there's no solution other than to lock direct chat to always be on which is not very palatable and still exploitable and will not be done. All that can really be done is appeal to the community to stop doing it.

 

2&3. There IS a (IMO great) solution for this: it is the same as that given above with the genius twist (credit goes to akafugative) that any adjustments made to your settings only take effect on respawning! Therefore if you want to play during the night and during the day its in your interest not to exploit brightnessγ as the day will become unplayable for you if you do. And obviously it would still fix the FOV exploit. People could still adjust their monitor brightness but its a lot better than nothing.

Edited April 15, 2014 by YorkMorgan

[Snowball (DayZ) 115]

I completely agree, altough I don't think third part comms can or will ever be disabled. That wouldn't make the game look good in the market.

As for the others, I think a system which they use in most horror games (like Amnesia) would be effective, something like "slide until square below is barely visible" like that, and then make it according to your suggestion.

Same for FOV.

[Karmaterror 982]

Can someone define "meta gaming" for me, iv seen it used in a lot of different context and each time im more confused by its true meaning lol.

 

Things like the gamma and third party VOIP systems are to me, a part of gaming. Maybe they negate some of the ingame mechanics but that's true of any game. What was the point of group based comms in BF2 if everyone just used TS. Its just one of those things we have to live with.

 

The gamma thing does need a fix, and has been discussed a lot. But limiting access to the settings menu doesn't seem like a viable fix to me. If 5 min wait isn't enough to put off the die hard hoppers, then I don't see a quick game restart every now and then to be much of a solution.

 

I think the best fix would be the A3 lighting system. Then for walki talkies vs VOIP.....well....not much lol. Best I can think of is to make the ingame comms much more accessable and user friendly. That way whats the point of tabbing to set up TS when we can push 1 key and have our walkie on.

 

In the end though I think we will have to accept that VOIP is here to stay, take solace that at least your game experience is richer for not using it :)

[yorkmorgan 191]

Can someone define "meta gaming" for me, iv seen it used in a lot of different context and each time im more confused by its true meaning lol.

Sure, I was using the definition from wiki:

'Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game.'

[Lord Ikka 25]

1. You will always have 3rd party comms, no matter the game. Any program that you would have to use that would shut them down to play the game would cause so much backlash it wouldn't be worth it.

2. They have already adjusted the gamma/brightness issue- you now can't use it to see in full darkness.

3. That's up to the devs- they will change it if they see it used as abuse on their end, but right now they obviously don't.

[Accolyte 1727]

1. Nothing can be done. We can't control what programs people run in the background unless they interfere with the game (hacks).

2. Night will be worked on further.

3. We are exploring ways of dealing with this. In the meantime, I would suggest playing on hardcore servers.

[akafugitive 244]

FOV can somewhat be solved by turning LRS into a 3d scope like arma3, high FOV would still only expand peripheral vision.(specially if it was picture in picture, since it would be independent of FOV setting)

Gamma/Brightness can be solved by locking it to character creation and with the introduction of accelerated night/day cycle

3rd part voip can be solved by forcing direct to be always open and PTT(push to talk) would only be used for radio comms, reduce direct radius when using in game radios to give them an advantage over 3rd party voip.

Nope of these will per say stop exploiting all together, people who want to exploit will adapt, but would help

Edited April 15, 2014 by akafugitive

[yorkmorgan 191]

1. Nothing can be done. We can't control what programs people run in the background unless they interfere with the game (hacks).

2. Night will be worked on further.

3. We are exploring ways of dealing with this. In the meantime, I would suggest playing on hardcore servers.

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated!

[Accolyte 1727]

3rd part voip can be solved by forcing direct to be always open and PTT(push to talk) would only be used for radio comms, reduce direct radius when using in game radios to give them an advantage over 3rd party voip.

 

That wouldn't solve anything. It would cause a huge uproar in the community and can be easily counteracted by muting you microphone either by using a mute switch on the headphones' cord or in the sound control panel.

[akafugitive 244]

That wouldn't solve anything. It would cause a huge uproar in the community and can be easily counteracted by muting you microphone either by using a mute switch on the headphones' cord or in the sound control panel.

If you muted it wouldn't that mute it for 3rd voip aswell?

I know some will complain, but the community is already split on the issue. I use steam chat and personally wouldn't care if while talking to my buddies on steam I was also speaking in the game world

Edited April 15, 2014 by akafugitive

[dgeesio 1034]

1. Nothing can be done. We can't control what programs people run in the background unless they interfere with the game (hacks).

2. Night will be worked on further.

3. We are exploring ways of dealing with this. In the meantime, I would suggest playing on hardcore servers.

 

night wont ever work as more people prefer light as its easier to play. also server rankings mean server admins will keep servers 24/7 light or just restart as dark to cater for populairty and keep the rankings highest.

[Accolyte 1727]

If you muted it wouldn't that mute it for 3RD voip aswell?

 

Ah.. good point. However you could simply change the sound input device in the game to use a different (silent) one and use the normal mic for Skype or whatever.

[Snowball (DayZ) 115]

Ah.. good point. However you could simply change the sound input device in the game to use a different (silent) one and use the normal mic for Skype or whatever.

In other words: Third party comms are here to stay?

[akafugitive 244]

Ah.. good point. However you could simply change the sound input device in the game to use a different (silent) one and use the normal mic for Skype or whatever.

Yeah their are always work around, like I can call my buddies from my phone and avoid chat going through my computer all together, I still think it would reduce the issue though, like you said you would still have the option to mute your mic if you don't want your background noise to come through.(cutting you off from 3rd party chat also)

Personally I would even rather not have to flip between direct and radio channels also, 1 button push to open radio comms or just speak plainly when you want to communicate with someone in your area. May even increase verbal communication when you don't have to fumble your controls to open direct communication

Edited April 15, 2014 by akafugitive

[victusmortuus 1074]

Night isn't fun in Dayz, well unless your idea of fun is walking around bumping into things at night. 

[[Outcasts]Massacre 121]

In other words: Third party comms are here to stay?

 

Yes. They cant do anything against legit programs.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

1: Remove 3pp view or use something like "4th wall" to stop abuse and lock the FoV to match the display resolutions native aspect ratio.

2: Lock the Gamma after a screen calibration on first launch.

3: Learn to live with it, not much you can do about 3rd party coms, best bet would be to introduce functional in game options for near silent communication like throat mics so those people who don't use voip aren't at such a great disadvantage.

Edited April 15, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[pillock 850]

That wouldn't solve anything. It would cause a huge uproar in the community and can be easily counteracted by muting you microphone either by using a mute switch on the headphones' cord or in the sound control panel.

 

I don't see why there would be an uproar? For locking proximity chat open? Why? It would make the game more realistic - if you're talking, people around you can hear you.

 

Ok, so there are ways to work-around it, like selecting separate input devices, but not everybody would do that. Locking proximity chat open would at least get the message across that 3rd-party VOIP is regarded as an exploit. Or is that not the case? And if so, why even have in-game comms at all?

Edited April 15, 2014 by Pillock

[Katana67 2907]

Ah.. good point. However you could simply change the sound input device in the game to use a different (silent) one and use the normal mic for Skype or whatever.

 

Yes, this is why it's a good idea in my opinion.

 

Just making a chance that someone will overhear someone blabbing to their clan across the map on TS is immensely helpful. It doesn't have to be fool-proof, and I doubt many people would go through the trouble of using multiple mics.

 

I would think that the detrimental effects placed upon in-game mechanics (like walkie talkies, direct chat, group play, etc.) by third-party comms programs would be concerning to say the least from a developmental perspective.

 

There's certainly something to be said about third party comms programs. But in my opinion, they render the aforementioned mechanics utterly useless/consequence-less, cheapen other mechanics (like vehicles, storage, and loot) and artificially limit what you all can implement. Why put in walkie talkies when the majority of folks use consequence-free TS? Why care about your life when you can arrange a pickup instantly with your clan across the map?

 

The only negative I've ever seen raised is that "I don't want people overhearing me." Which is sort of the point... If you don't want to be heard in DayZ, mute your mic... or be quiet. Game mechanics shouldn't be catered to the off chance that the player is a loud imbecile. Other than that, I don't think people would mind "always on" direct chat.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Katana67

[Karmaterror 982]

Night isn't fun in Dayz, well unless your idea of fun is walking around bumping into things at night. 

 

I disagree, I think night is the best dayz experience. When we get chems and flares it will be brilliant. I remember playing the mod with nothing but a 5-10m circle of green light around me and the outline of buildings or trees against the night sky for orientation. Seeing a zombie emerge from the void into my little lit area was terrifying :)

 

 

1: Remove 3pp view and lock the FoV to the display resolutions native aspect ratio.

2: Lock the Gamma after a screen calibration on first launch.

3: Learn to live with it, not much you can do about 3rd party coms, best bet would be to introduce functional in game options for near silent communication like throat mics.

 

Don't see how 3pp is metagaming....its within the games defined rule set on that type of server. Locking FoV to resolution is fair though.

 

The gamma lock is a bit problematic....what if I buy a new TV, il want to adjust the game settings again to compensate for my new hardware. New rig......same deal. Besides iv heard that you can just change it on graphics card program settings, so there really dosent seem to be a way round it unless something is done at engine level to make it none exploitable.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

I disagree, I think night is the best dayz experience. When we get chems and flares it will be brilliant. I remember playing the mod with nothing but a 5-10m circle of green light around me and the outline of buildings or trees against the night sky for orientation. Seeing a zombie emerge from the void into my little lit area was terrifying :)

 

 

 

Don't see how 3pp is metagaming....its within the games defined rule set on that type of server. Locking FoV to resolution is fair though.

 

The gamma lock is a bit problematic....what if I buy a new TV, il want to adjust the game settings again to compensate for my new hardware. New rig......same deal. Besides iv heard that you can just change it on graphics card program settings, so there really dosent seem to be a way round it unless something is done at engine level to make it none exploitable.

I like night in dayZ too, just can't enjoy it currently because it's a matter of abusing gamma yourself or get killed because everyone else is. With locked gamma, everyone is on a level playing field and things like touches and weapon flashlights may be USEFUL for once.

 

3pp is the single most abused feature, it's far easier to wall peak in 3pp aswell as the obvious and near constant abuse of the camera angle.

 

The gamma lock wouldn't cause you a problem, just reinstall the game to trigger the screen configuration again, I'm not talking about syncing this data to the steam cloud or anything, just removing the ability to edit gamma levels ingame and instead having a screen configuration on first launch after installing the game.

 

Just because it can be worked around from outside the game doesn't mean we shouldn't work on stopping the abuse of the ingame gamma, it would still be an improvement.

Edited April 15, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[Snowball (DayZ) 115]

I like night in dayZ too, just can't enjoy it currently because it's a matter of abusing gamma yourself or get killed because everyone else is. With locked gamma, everyone is on a level playing field.

 

3pp is the single most abused feature, it's far easier to wall peak in 3pp aswell as the obvious and near constant abuse of the camera angle.

 

The gamma lock wouldn't cause you a problem, just reinstall the game to trigger the screen configuration again, I'm not talking about syncing this data to the steam cloud or anything, just removing the ability to edit gamma levels ingame and instead having a screen configuration on first launch after installing the game.

 

Just because it can be worked around from outside the game doesn't mean we shouldn't work on stopping the abuse of the ingame gamma, it would still be an improvement.

I never understood why people think the wall peak in 3pp is an abuse...Personally I don't even like it and want it to somehow be removed but it's not really an abuse when it's part of the game mechanic & everyone has access to it..IMO

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

I never understood why people think the wall peak in 3pp is an abuse...Personally I don't even like it and want it to somehow be removed but it's not really an abuse when it's part of the game mechanic & everyone has access to it..IMO

Wall peaking and using the camera angle to view things outside your characters normal field of view are two different problems, wall peaking is leaning and positioning your character in such a way that a wall becomes invisible and it's easier to do on third person mode.

 

If you haven't encountered wall peaking, you're very lucky. It happens on first person too, however it's harder to do and much harder to get a good view with, luckily.

 

edit: http://feedback.dayzgame.com/view.php?id=4002 has screenshots of what i'm talking about when I say wall peaking.

 

The top picture is what generally happens in first person when you clip into a wall. Notice the much smaller area where the outside of the building is visible through the wall?

 

The rest are what can happen in third person with some manipulation.

Edited April 15, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[Snowball (DayZ) 115]

Wall peaking and using the camera angle to view things outside your characters normal field of view are two different problems, wall peaking is leaning and positioning your character in such a way that a wall becomes invisible and it's easier to do on third person mode.

 

If you haven't encountered wall peaking, you're very lucky.

I actually meant the former one you mentioned, guess I used the wrong term for it.

So you mean that wall peaking is that glitchy thing people do when they can see through walls? 

[p4triot 207]

Whats that FOV exploit? never heard of it before.

 

FOV can somewhat be solved by turning LRS into a 3d scope like arma3, high FOV would still only expand peripheral vision.(specially if it was picture in picture, since it would be independent of FOV setting)

Gamma/Brightness can be solved by locking it to character creation and with the introduction of accelerated night/day cycle

3rd part voip can be solved by forcing direct to be always open and PTT(push to talk) would only be used for radio comms, reduce direct radius when using in game radios to give them an advantage over 3rd party voip.


Nope of these will per say stop exploiting all together, people who want to exploit will adapt, but would help

 

Epic idea.