The Public Hive- Am I the only person who likes it?

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

Seriously, I don't see why so many people hate the public hive.

 

If it wasn't for the public hive, DayZ would be a much different game for me. With a character that is bound to every server, I can always stay on high population servers or play with my friends without having to start over.

 

Now, public hives do allow server hopping and other naughty things, but the timer is helping against that, though I think it should stack a bit more.

 

But where do private hives fail? Because, trust me, there are downsides to a private hive.

 

Let me go over a few-

 

1. Private hives are limited to a single server. This single server could go down at any time, get shut down at any time, or lose population at any time. The server can be 37/40 one day, 2/40 the next. There is no guarantee the private hive will stay popular enough to provide a true DayZ experience to its players.

 

2. Private hives force you and your friends to pick one specific server before you start playing. It forces you to start over when you join another friend or have them start over when they join you. Instead of just joining a server together, with your public hive characters, and meeting up, you are forced to decide who gets to be the geared one.

 

3. Private hives give administrators lots of control. Why? Since nothing is carried over from one hive to another hive, spawning of weapons and cars by the admins is usually fine. This can lead to admin abuse, and if every server is a private hive, admin abuse can plague a game like this. No one wants to leave a server where they have tons of stuff, even if the admin is a dickwad.

 

4. Private hives, due to their modifiability, can make it nearly impossible to find a vanilla server. We've seen this in the mod which ended up having so many "Spawn with AS50 / 50000 Cars / 200 Heli's / Self Bloodbag" servers! It made it nearly impossible for someone like me to find a server where you didn't start with anything. Private hives also end up selling gear for real life money. Basically, an admin will spawn you in a DMR if you give him $5 over Paypal. Not fair to those who don't want to pay some server owner for in-game gear. Now, mods can be really good, but can also lead to pussification as we have seen in the mod.

 

Now, since I don't want to be biased, what are the downsides of a public hive?

 

1. Players can hop from server to server to loot areas. They have to wait through a current 5 minute timer, which some wait through and others don't. A lot are normal players who are pissed off that loot doesn't respawn and decide to server hop so they can actually get anything from a place they spent 30 minutes running to, while others do it a million times and end up having bazillions of rounds which is a nice gift to someone who hears them logging in.

 

2. Players can combat log, though this is only really effective to snipers. You can log out during combat, but you are there for 30 seconds, ripe to be killed.

 

What about the upsides to a private hive?

 

1. No server hopping or combat logging.

 

What are the upsides to a public hive?

 

1. Its easier to play with your chumps.

 

2. If the server you normally play on goes down, temporarily or permanently, you can switch to another server and not have to worry about.

 

 

I personally think we should stick to public hives, and if private hives are added, the server browser have two tabs- Public Hive and Private Hive.

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

I quite enjoy the public hive on both the mod and SA.  Arguably there is less server owner control and customization, however I like it when all the servers are the way the developers intended them to be. 

[Katana67 2907]

Nothing wrong with being biased (i.e. subjectively predisposed toward a particular assertion), just as long as you don't suppose your own understanding as objective/fact.

 

To your first point, yes, but I like being on one server. It encourages server loyalty and makes population dips less likely overall. Moreover, we've never really had proper servers ever, so it makes more sense to me to remove the requirement for frequent server restarts and increase stability so that population dips occur less frequently. There's always been a vast surplus of servers in relation to the in-game population at any given point. Why does this matter? A plethora of exploitable empty servers. I'd like to see the servers, if public hive is to be kept, be dynamically allocated based upon player population. Meaning, if 200 players are on at a given point, then the amount of servers visible to the player should be only able to hold 200 players.

 

Similarly, a lot of population dips happened in the mod because there was no unified update structure. So some servers were left on the previous patch, whilst the quick-adopting ones were updated to the newest patch. This pushed people around more, whereas now the updates are much more unified (i.e. stable).

 

To your second point, I'm not sure convenience is something we should be wholly endorsing. Either they make DayZ a true MMO by making us all exist in the same world (which isn't possible currently) or they limit us to a character a server. I don't play with friends, but if I did, I wouldn't want it to be easy to group up. I can certainly see the utility in having public hives, but I think there are ways of preserving the "convenience" of public hives whilst marginalizing the marked downsides of server hopping.

 

To your third point, public hive servers can be subject to admin abuse. It's not a feature particular to private hives. 

 

To your fourth point, this assumes that private hives will be the same as in the mod. A lot of the private hive crap (1000 vehicle servers, starting out with loadouts, etc.) was provided for by scripting as I understand it. So it may no longer be possible to do all the crazy things that were done with private servers in the mod.

 

I don't necessarily hate public hives, but server hopping is a massive problem. A game breaking one. Making everything private is an easy way of fixing it. Working with public hives to fix server hopping is a bit more difficult, hence why people prefer the easy caveman path.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Katana67

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Being killed and starting fresh is different how on having to start over on another server?  Instead of being tied to one character that you play with friends on, you can have multiple ones with different adventures and all sorts of random craziness going on.

[ptk (DayZ) 178]

I would like to add that if servers were only public, then there would be less severs overall. I would think that more people would be inclined to rent servers if they had the option. More servers=larger structure for acommunity. Surely, you will find dickhead admins, but those are in any server based game. Same goes for "donations" reserve slots, advertising etc... And they aren't going to change regardless of what game it is. I'm not sure how hard it was to find a normal server in the mod, because i played it before all the script stuff came about. Nevertheless, a good filter system should help some in that aspect.

Public and private both have advantages, why limit one for another?

[Ubernaut 297]

OP, I agree with a lot of the points you made. Private hives do have their advantages.

 

I think the single biggest disadvantage of Public hives would have to be what I think is called "ghosting", where players are able to travel to any point, switch servers, and automatically be at the same point they left on the other server. When tents, vehicles and barricading are implemented, this is going to be a huge drawback unless the devs disallow ghosting, and make you spawn on the coast if you switch servers.

 

So I guess even some of the disadvantages of the Public Hive system are subject to change. Hard to say at this point.

[Katana67 2907]

More servers=larger structure for a community.

 

This is what I take issue with, it just isn't the reality. There are tons, and tons, and tons of empty servers. There always have been. More servers is not the answer. Fewer servers, which are dynamically proportional to the community at any given point, is the answer.

[ptk (DayZ) 178]

This is what I take issue with, it just isn't the reality. There are tons, and tons, and tons of empty servers. There always have been. More servers is not the answer. Fewer servers, which are dynamically proportional to the community at any given point, is the answer.

And how do you fund it? Create a waiting list for people to rent servers? I doubt that will go well with server rental companies. Or do you propose that Bohemia foots the bill?

The only way your suggestion would work is if the game became subscription based and bohemia regulated the servers with the additional cash and I doubt Dayz players would like that...

[Katana67 2907]

And how do you fund it? Create a waiting list for people to rent servers? I doubt that will go well with server rental companies. Or do you propose that Bohemia foots the bill?

The only way your suggestion would work is if the game became subscription based and bohemia regulated the servers with the additional cash and I doubt Dayz players would like that...

 

What is the public hive if not a server architecture regulated by BIS?

 

Are you saying that no game can feature company-controlled servers without a subscription?

 

Why do we care about independent rental companies?

Edited April 13, 2014 by Katana67

[DedicateDdos 50]

+1 for the public hive, it really works well with the way DayZ is set up, it still needs some fine tuning though but I'm sure the devs will works this out eventually, and I'm looking forward to how they're going to fix the ghosting when persistent objects get implemented.

 

eventually private hives will be introduced and everyone's personal need will eventually get catered to as well.

 

All in all it's a "watch and see"-scenario where a lot depends on how well the devs can work out their idea's.

[Etherious 907]

Nothing wrong with being biased (i.e. subjectively predisposed toward a particular assertion), just as long as you don't suppose your own understanding as objective/fact.

 

To your first point, yes, but I like being on one server. It encourages server loyalty and makes population dips less likely overall. Moreover, we've never really had proper servers ever, so it makes more sense to me to remove the requirement for frequent server restarts and increase stability so that population dips occur less frequently. There's always been a vast surplus of servers in relation to the in-game population at any given point. Why does this matter? A plethora of exploitable empty servers. I'd like to see the servers, if public hive is to be kept, be dynamically allocated based upon player population. Meaning, if 200 players are on at a given point, then the amount of servers visible to the player should be only able to hold 200 players.

 

Similarly, a lot of population dips happened in the mod because there was no unified update structure. So some servers were left on the previous patch, whilst the quick-adopting ones were updated to the newest patch. This pushed people around more, whereas now the updates are much more unified (i.e. stable).

 

To your second point, I'm not sure convenience is something we should be wholly endorsing. Either they make DayZ a true MMO by making us all exist in the same world (which isn't possible currently) or they limit us to a character a server. I don't play with friends, but if I did, I wouldn't want it to be easy to group up. I can certainly see the utility in having public hives, but I think there are ways of preserving the "convenience" of public hives whilst marginalizing the marked downsides of server hopping.

 

To your third point, public hive servers can be subject to admin abuse. It's not a feature particular to private hives. 

 

To your fourth point, this assumes that private hives will be the same as in the mod. A lot of the private hive crap (1000 vehicle servers, starting out with loadouts, etc.) was provided for by scripting as I understand it. So it may no longer be possible to do all the crazy things that were done with private servers in the mod.

 

I don't necessarily hate public hives, but server hopping is a massive problem. A game breaking one. Making everything private is an easy way of fixing it. Working with public hives to fix server hopping is a bit more difficult, hence why people prefer the easy caveman path.

On your fourth point, Private hives will still be able to do all that nasty 1000 vehicle, Mega loadout, and etc... crap with private servers since they would most likely let the server owner have access to the FTP/MySQL database and the main server files to modify and reupload.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

On your fourth point, Private hives will still be able to do all that nasty 1000 vehicle, Mega loadout, and etc... crap with private servers since they would most likely let the server owner have access to the FTP/MySQL database and the main server files to modify and reupload.

I'll have to dig it up but I am sure someone said that this won't happen

[Etherious 907]

I'll have to dig it up but I am sure someone said that this won't happen

Oh well, I was just assuming I'm sorry. If not then it would be fine, but at least give us FTP/MySQL access.

Edited April 13, 2014 by DJ SGTHornet

[ptk (DayZ) 178]

What is the public hive if not a server architecture regulated by BIS?

 

Are you saying that no game can feature company-controlled servers without a subscription?

 

Why do we care about independent rental companies?

I didn't think bohemias servers could compensate for 30 million plus people gaming, not that they all would play at once. I was under the impression that most servers were rented as opposed to being operated by bohemia. I understand what your saying now and agree.

Still, the private hives would theoretically help sell more games, with the ability to entice more playstyles (pve for example) to the Dayz community...

[Katana67 2907]

I didn't think bohemias servers could compensate for 30 million plus people gaming, not that they all would play at once. I was under the impression that most servers were rented as opposed to being operated by bohemia. I understand what your saying now and agree.

Still, the private hives would theoretically help sell more games, with the ability to entice more playstyles (pve for example) to the Dayz community...

 

To be fair, I don't really know all that much about the servers. For all I know, the public servers could indeed by leased and rented servers by BIS. Which they may very well be. But its BIS still renting/regulating them.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Katana67

[DedicateDdos 50]

On that note, as I've been wondering does BIS earn money from the servers these private companies host? Considering their outrageous price per month/slot.

[ptk (DayZ) 178]

To be fair, I don't really know all that much about the servers. For all I know, the public servers could indeed by leased and rented servers by BIS. Which they may very well be. But its BIS still renting/regulating them.

Yea, i just assumed it was like tf2 or l4d, some valve ran servers, with more community hosted ones...

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Yea, i just assumed it was like tf2 or l4d, some valve ran servers, with more community hosted ones...

Valve is a much larger company.  I don't think BiS has the manpower to host a ton of servers.  By manpower i mean staff to maintain them hence why they use third party hosters who do

[Etherious 907]

On that note, as I've been wondering does BIS earn money from the servers these private companies host? Considering their outrageous price per month/slot.

Yes, BIS does get a cut of the money made from Privated Company server sales, due to the fact that DayZ is software by BIS and Rocket's company whom leased it to Private Companies by request.

[DedicateDdos 50]

Yes, BIS does get a cut of the money made from Privated Company server sales, due to the fact that DayZ is software by BIS and Rocket's company whom leased it to Private Companies by request.

 

I guess that only made sense, and in a way is a good thing I suppose as it kind-off guarantees longevity in terms of support.

[River Lizard 47]

So I log on a private server on off hours.....loot the crap out of it....my guy is ready to go the next time I log in......next private server......I log in on off hours....loot the crap out of it...my guy is ready to go.....next server....   on and on and on.......   well that didn't seem to work did it?    Next would be that the admins can shut the server down when they're not playing....so then my guy is basically shutdown until the admin decides I can play on that server.  

There's got to be at least public servers and quite a few of them that people are not stuck with either paying the server owner or waiting around until the owner/admin decides to start the server up again. 

I only play on about 5 servers normally...so if these servers were private...I'd have 5 guys in different states of gear...but I'm limited on which guy I can play depending on which server owners have their server up and running plus if it's full or not. 

Let the private ones do whatever they want to do with the game but please provide a good amount of public servers for us that want to just play the game without all the drama.

[ptk (DayZ) 178]

Valve is a much larger company. I don't think BiS has the manpower to host a ton of servers. By manpower i mean staff to maintain them hence why they use third party hosters who do

Makes sense. Yea, i just don't see how you could tie them all in and regulate the number of servers to the number of players unless it was ran by bohemia and the economic incentive was there...

Edited April 13, 2014 by ptk

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

So I log on a private server on off hours.....loot the crap out of it....my guy is ready to go the next time I log in......next private server......I log in on off hours....loot the crap out of it...my guy is ready to go.....next server....   on and on and on.......   well that didn't seem to work did it?    Next would be that the admins can shut the server down when they're not playing....so then my guy is basically shutdown until the admin decides I can play on that server.  

There's got to be at least public servers and quite a few of them that people are not stuck with either paying the server owner or waiting around until the owner/admin decides to start the server up again. 

I only play on about 5 servers normally...so if these servers were private...I'd have 5 guys in different states of gear...but I'm limited on which guy I can play depending on which server owners have their server up and running plus if it's full or not. 

Let the private ones do whatever they want to do with the game but please provide a good amount of public servers for us that want to just play the game without all the drama.

And this is different from private servers how?  You just described the regular rotation of server hoppers using the public server system

Edited April 13, 2014 by Caboose187

[hellcat420 212]

i hate the public hive structure. i play private servers mostly because i like to stick to one server. that and i dont like playing with a lot of randoms that just hop from server to server. there is no sense of community in that kind of structure, no consistant enemies, etc.

[gannon46 788]

private hives are nice I think they give everyone a chance to play the game the way they want and find like minded folks who want the same. Such as RP which will not work IMHO on a public hive at least not at a level to be any good. and I do understand the griping about the self blood bag 1000 cars but theres an option don't play on those servers. as well as if you get a good admin you don't have to worry about hackers or douche bags. hell the most fun I've had in dayz was on a private hive loot only spawned once and you started with nothing it was awesome and there were like minded folks on the server hence I played on just that server for a year almost everyday. so to say private hives are crap well it might not be for you but its good for others. the way I think of a public server is like a public TS server, fucking madness full of retards where you want to take an ice pick and carve out your eyes and ears.