The LMG/GPMG Thread!

[Katana67 2907]

I remember a few weeks ago, somebody had found some code in one of the files which included the M249 and PKM in DayZ. Now, I'm pretty sure this was just legacy code and not indicative that these weapons are coming to DayZ.

 

But the merits, largely in terms of how they can be appropriated/implemented in DayZ, have not been widely discussed.

 

Personally, I have absolutely no issue with LMGs and GPMGs being included in DayZ.

 

The issue with these weapons is that they often times use common ammo, the majority of which (save the PKM oddly enough, as 7.62x54R isn't in DayZ yet) use ammunition already included in DayZ.

 

A possible middle-ground would be to add high-capacity magazines for existing/incoming assault rifle platforms (i.e. M4A1, AKM, AK-74). This is already sort of the case with regard to the 60 round "coupled" magazines available to the M4A1 in-game. Likewise, I remember seeing an image of an in-game 100 round CMAG on Reddit.

 

LMGs themselves should remain rare. They should also have increased maintenance requirements in terms of cleaning and repair. I'm unsure if I'm willing to endorse a "barrel temperature" mechanic, but that could be a factor as well. Similarly, LMGs should encumber the player moreso than the average weapon.

 

The use of a bipod should be essential, scaling up from the magazine-fed, to LMG, to GPMG in terms of significance.

 

The ammunition could be provided for through the looting of relatively rare "ammunition links" which could be combined with existing ammunition to create belts. After that is accomplished, the player could suffer from further encumbrance due to the belt of ammo not being encased in a box/pouch. Which would require another rare item to be looted.

 

The one caveat with this, is that certain belt-fed LMGs can use assault rifle magazines (like the M249). This is not a problem, however, as it essentially transforms a rarer weapon into a vanilla assault rifle. Thus negating the purpose of an LMG.

 

Summary

 

- The weapons themselves should be rare

- They should encumber the player

- They should require an increased level of maintenance (cleaning, repair, etc.)

- They should place a heavy emphasis on supported fire (i.e. making a bipod essential)

- Magazine-fed LMGs should require high-capacity magazines to be 100% useful

- Belt-fed LMGs/GPMGs should require the combination of links, ammunition, and box/bag to be 100% useful

 

What are your thoughts? Do you think LMGs have a place in DayZ? How would you like attachments to be handled if LMGs were to be implemented?

 

SAMPLE LINEUP

 

RPK/RPK-12 [RARE] [7.62x39 and 5.45x39 respectively] [Perhaps one could be selected, as they're aesthetically similar. Ideas for a NATO counterpart?]

 

 

 

M249/RPD [RARE] [5.56x45 NATO and 7.62x39 respectively] [M249 could be more modular in terms of attachments whereas the RPD could be more potent]

 

 

 

FN MAG or M240/PKM [VERY RARE] [7.62x51 NATO and 7.62x54R respectively] [Ammunition/links for the PKM could be more common than for the FN MAG]

 

 

Edited April 13, 2014 by Katana67

[Etherious 907]

I like LMGs/HMGs and I think they will be a great addition to DayZ but man did you get every single point I was gonna make. xD I would like to see this in DayZ....one day..(Being dead serious too btw)

[real meatshield 424]

I dunno man. Maybe somewhere down the road in a mod for it, but in vanilla I think it would be OP and out of place. As fun as it would be to shred freshies on the coast, I think it would be just too much.

[Katana67 2907]

I dunno man. Maybe somewhere down the road in a mod for it, but in vanilla I think it would be OP and out of place. As fun as it would be to shred freshies on the coast, I think it would be just too much.

 

Why?

[Etherious 907]

I dunno man. Maybe somewhere down the road in a mod for it, but in vanilla I think it would be OP and out of place. As fun as it would be to shred freshies on the coast, I think it would be just too much.

Finding LMGs/HMGs/GPMGs in real life apocalypse wouldn't be out of place nor impossible. Just look at the Smokers from Waterworlds.....they found multiple machines guns. And there Earth was COVERED in water. :P

Edited April 13, 2014 by DJ SGTHornet

[Deathlove 2286]

I JUST found my first LMG in the Dayz mod Origins. Its a SAW or whatever and i got it at a downed heli crash with tones of zombies around. But i would REALLY love to see it put in SA. Its a beast weapon to say the least. We DO need rare LMG's and SMG's in game i think. They just need to be a NICE reward you have to work towards or accomplish like trying to sneak or fight through a massive horde to a downed chopper or something similar.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Summary

 

- The weapons themselves should be rare Why so? They can't be that rare since a lot of squads have at least 2 of them.

- They should encumber the player ABSOLUTELY!!

- They should require an increased level of maintenance (cleaning, repair, etc.) It's the same old reliable mechanic as a rifle..i'd say it is as least as reliable as a rifle if not more since these things are supposes to work harder than a rifle.

- They should place a heavy emphasis on supported fire (i.e. making a bipod essential) You should be able to rest any weapon on any possible spot imo. Scoped rifles are meant for precision fire..so a bipod is invalid on those?

- Magazine-fed LMGs should require high-capacity magazines to be 100% useful Most LMGs nowadays are belt fed though...The BAR f.e. was an automatic rifle that has been used in the role of a LMG. M249 is the only weapon that comes to mind that uses magazies as an alternative source of ammo.

- Belt-fed LMGs/GPMGs should require the combination of links, ammunition, and box/bag to be 100% useful  < What do you mean by that? Machine guns can also feed without a box holding the belt. The chances of the belt beeing caught somewhere might be a bit bigger without one.

 

First of all if i want to go to war a LMG is the way to go. If i'm in a survival situation and it's either a 10kg machine gun or 10kg worth of chow and a survival rifle i'd go with latter.

[Katana67 2907]

First of all if i want to go to war a LMG is the way to go. If i'm in a survival situation and it's either a 10kg machine gun or 10kg worth of chow and a survival rifle i'd go with latter.

 

To your first critique, I don't really think traditional squad structures are the concern of DayZ.

 

Second, by virtue of firing automatically for extended periods of time, many LMGs have an increased rate of barrel turnover. Belts can, in certain instances, also increase the probability of jamming. Likewise, this is an effort to balance it and not a simulation of pure realism.

 

Third, not saying a bipod is "invalid" (whatever you mean by that) on other weapons. I'm saying it should be MORE ESSENTIAL for accurate fire on an LMG vice other weapons (like assault rifles).

 

Fourth, referring to weapons like the RPK, M27 IAR, and AUG HBAR.

 

Fifth, links are required to link ammunition into belts. This should be represented in DayZ to justify the commonality of the ammunition used by belt-fed LMGs/GPMGs. I'm not saying that it should require a box/bag to fire, I'm saying that having a box/bag should lower the encumbrance threshold (as moving around with a compact box/bag of ammo underneath your weapon is a lot easier than moving around with a 150 round belt danging off of your ass).

Edited April 13, 2014 by Katana67

[Etherious 907]

First of all if i want to go to war a LMG is the way to go. If i'm in a survival situation and it's either a 10kg machine gun or 10kg worth of chow and a survival rifle i'd go with latter.

But some people want that 10KG gun ;D

[gibonez 3633]

First of all if i want to go to war a LMG is the way to go. If i'm in a survival situation and it's either a 10kg machine gun or 10kg worth of chow and a survival rifle i'd go with latter.

 

Think of it as a specialized weapon that you store at base once base building is around and then take out for laying down ambushes on the road.

 

PKM and RPK make perfect sense for the game.

 

PKM in particular has been so mass produced and its truly a work of art.

[Etherious 907]

Think of it as a specialized weapon that you store at base once base building is around and then take out for laying down ambushes on the road.

 

PKM and RPK make perfect sense for the game.

 

PKM in particular has been so mass produced and its truly a work of art.

I LOVE the way a PKM looks and sounds....*salivates*

[Katana67 2907]

I LOVE the way a PKM looks and sounds....*salivates*

 

Think of it as a specialized weapon that you store at base once base building is around and then take out for laying down ambushes on the road.

 

PKM and RPK make perfect sense for the game.

 

PKM in particular has been so mass produced and its truly a work of art.

 

I chose the PKM over the Pecheneg largely because the carry handle on the Pecheneg looks silly and ruins the profile in my opinion.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Katana67

[enforcer1975 1111]

Third, not saying a bipod is "invalid" (whatever you mean by that) on other weapons. I'm saying it should be MORE ESSENTIAL for accurate fire on an LMG vice other weapons (like assault rifles).

 

Machine gun and accuracy are two terms that bite eachother...machine guns are not meant to deliver sniper precision fire.

 

Before bipods were standard issue snipers used backpacks as a rest for their rifles therefor saying a bipod is essential for precision fire is "inaccurate".

[real meatshield 424]

Why?

I think it would detract from the "feel" of the game, honestly. When I play Wasteland, I go out of my way to get the 7.62LMG and put an ARCO on it... it puts me in beast mode. But thats Wasteland, not DayZ. I think the scope of weaponry, as the game stands right now, is actually not bad.

 

I just don't want to see this game, in vanilla, turn into Wasteland with zombies. I would be all for it in future mods, don't get me wrong. I just feel having LMGs would be out of place. Were they to be put in the game, does that mean I would avoid them? Hell no, I would grab one up ASAP, put on my engineer cap, and go hammer down with the rape train. I just don't feel they are integral to the "grity" feel of the game, at least as how I envision it.

[Katana67 2907]

Machine gun and accuracy are two terms that bite eachother...machine guns are not meant to deliver sniper precision fire.

 

I didn't say that they were.

[Etherious 907]

I think it would detract from the "feel" of the game, honestly. When I play Wasteland, I go out of my way to get the 7.62LMG and put an ARCO on it... it puts me in beast mode. But thats Wasteland, not DayZ. I think the scope of weaponry, as the game stands right now, is actually not bad.

 

I just don't want to see this game, in vanilla, turn into Wasteland with zombies. I would be all for it in future mods, don't get me wrong. I just feel having LMGs would be out of place. Were they to be put in the game, does that mean I would avoid them? Hell no, I would grab one up ASAP, put on my engineer cap, and go hammer down with the rape train. I just don't feel they are integral to the "grity" feel of the game, at least as how I envision it.

But that's the thing, they're gonna be really rare (I hope) and the ammo/ammo belts/ammo boxes will also be rare (once again I hope).

Edited April 13, 2014 by DJ SGTHornet

[Katana67 2907]

I just don't want to see this game, in vanilla, turn into Wasteland with zombies. I would be all for it in future mods, don't get me wrong. I just feel having LMGs would be out of place. Were they to be put in the game, does that mean I would avoid them? Hell no, I would grab one up ASAP, put on my engineer cap, and go hammer down with the rape train. I just don't feel they are integral to the "grity" feel of the game, at least as how I envision it.

 

But how do you "feel" they would be out of place? How do they ruin the "gritty" "feel"?

 

People always cite this "ruin the feel" of something, without actually explaining what they mean.

[gibonez 3633]

Machine gun and accuracy are two terms that bite eachother...machine guns are not meant to deliver sniper precision fire.

 

Before bipods were standard issue snipers used backpacks as a rest for their rifles therefor saying a bipod is essential for precision fire is "inaccurate".

 

Are you mental ?

 

LMGS and HMG are "sniper rifle" accurate man.far more accurate than assault rifles.

 

One of the biggest factors due to their insane accuracy is their big weight and rigidity.

 

A lmg is easier to put rounds on target at extended ranges easier than a Sniper rifle that is.

[Deathlove 2286]

Just make them really hard to get and swarming with zombies in some kind of world event. Would be something to strive to work towards. LMGs should be an end game weapon for people as an option to work towards and should be treated as such. You must be well prepared to take on the task of getting such an exotic item and realize you might not make it out with the prized weapon.

[Katana67 2907]

This is all I got for a magazine-fed NATO/Western counterpart to the RPK. I prefer the IAR, but I suspect the L86A2 or C7A1 might be more palatable to the he-man-rail-haters-club. I don't think the AUG or L2A1 would work, given that the former uses proprietary magazines and the latter is essentially a battle rifle.

 

C7A1 or L86A2 would be cool either way. We do need a bullpup after all. I think the Galil ARM would do well too, although it is AK-derivative.

 

M27 IAR

 

 

C7A1 LSW

 

 

L2A1 (Doubt this would be appropriate, given that it fires a full rifle cartridge)

 

L86A2 (Yes, I'm aware that it's primarily intended to fill a DMR role, but it's the same principle as an RPK)

 

 

AUG HBAR

 

 

EDIT -  Forgot the Galil ARM, might be a good choice as well.

 

Edited April 13, 2014 by Katana67

[enforcer1975 1111]

Are you mental ?

 

LMGS and HMG are "sniper rifle" accurate man.far more accurate than assault rifles.

 

One of the biggest factors due to their insane accuracy is their big weight and rigidity.

 

A lmg is easier to put rounds on target at extended ranges easier than a Sniper rifle that is.

 

If LMGs were that accurate why bother grabbing two men, training them how to do precision shooting with a matchgrade bolt action or semi auto rifle instead of putting them behind a machine gun? I think you are confusing the role of those weapon systems.

[weedmasta 784]

 

A lmg is easier to put rounds on target at extended ranges easier than a Sniper rifle that is.

 

Yea it is, when you are watching Rambo. :D

[lipemr 160]

To your first critique, I don't really think traditional squad structures are the concern of DayZ.

 

Second, by virtue of firing automatically for extended periods of time, many LMGs have an increased rate of barrel turnover. Belts can, in certain instances, also increase the probability of jamming. Likewise, this is an effort to balance it and not a simulation of pure realism.

 

Third, not saying a bipod is "invalid" (whatever you mean by that) on other weapons. I'm saying it should be MORE ESSENTIAL for accurate fire on an LMG vice other weapons (like assault rifles).

 

Fourth, referring to weapons like the RPK, M27 IAR, and AUG HBAR.

 

Fifth, links are required to link ammunition into belts. This should be represented in DayZ to justify the commonality of the ammunition used by belt-fed LMGs/GPMGs. I'm not saying that it should require a box/bag to fire, I'm saying that having a box/bag should lower the encumbrance threshold (as moving around with a compact box/bag of ammo underneath your weapon is a lot easier than moving around with a 150 round belt danging off of your ass).

i think a LMG should need way less maintenance than a rifle, as you'll fire basically the same amount of bullets with both of them on a daily basis, the main downside for carrying a LMG should be the weight. You shouldnt be able to carry a backpack if you stick around with one, maybe just a pouch or a survival bag. It should really limit your running capability and accelerate your need for water.

 

Other than that, the lmgs are usually better than a rifle in most ocasions. Obviously you shouldnt be able to put a scope on a LMG other than the m249.

 

They shouldnt have any red dots/aim attachments too, maybe just a grip and ammo boxes/pouches.

[Katana67 2907]

i think a LMG should need way less maintenance than a rifle, as you'll fire basically the same amount of bullets with both of them on a daily basis, the main downside for carrying a LMG should be the weight. You shouldnt be able to carry a backpack if you stick around with one, maybe just a pouch or a survival bag. It should really limit your running capability and accelerate your need for water.

 

Other than that, the lmgs are usually better than a rifle in most ocasions. Obviously you shouldnt be able to put a scope on a LMG other than the m249.

 

They shouldnt have any red dots/aim attachments too, maybe just a grip and ammo boxes/pouches.

 

I think it should depend on how much weight you have overall. I mean LMGs should contribute to that weight moreso (through the weapon itself and the large quantities of ammunition should a player choose to create a belt of ammunition).

 

In other words, I don't think there should be an artificial limit to what you can carry, so much as there is a point at which it becomes prohibitive (through the downsides mentioned below) to carry a ton of stuff.

 

As to the subject of not being able to carry a backpack, I think you shouldn't be limited in what you can carry randomly by an LMG. But the increased weight of running an LMG should make you run slower, tire easier, be encumbered when turning, and (as you say) require food/water at a quicker rate. Nevermind that LMGs should be difficult to control when unsupported.

 

Most attachments that can fit onto an AKM or AK74 can fit onto the RPK or RPK-74. I think the best way to represent the NATO/Warsaw Pact with LMGs/GPMGs, though, is through modularity versus ammo commonality. So the Warsaw Pact weapons are easier to find ammo for, but are less modular. Whereas the NATO weapons have rarer ammo, but can mount more attachments. 

Edited April 13, 2014 by Katana67

[real meatshield 424]

But how do you "feel" they would be out of place? How do they ruin the "gritty" "feel"?

 

People always cite this "ruin the feel" of something, without actually explaining what they mean.

What I "feel" and what you "feel" are likely two far different ends of the spectrum, and I am no psychologist- so it is beyond me to explain to you what I "feel". 

Whether they add them or not is irrelevant; I don't believe that, at this point (or anywhere up to vanilla release), LMGs have a relevant place in the game. My take, and my take only. As I have already said I would jump on it if they put them in- far be it for me to be such a purist that I completely ignore them in favor of lesser weapons. However, I think DayZ Gun Game should be a mod, and not a part of vanilla.

 

YMMV.