wind direction/speed feedback to the player

[akafugitive 244]

So I saw recently that Rocket stated that wind will be added to effect bullet trajectory, but only after the figure out how to give feedback to the player.

Moving foliage, flags, ect. Will provide some visual aid, however using the Guesture system you could add a "feel the wind" Guesture that would give basic info through text feedback "the wind is blowing against your front, it feels strong". Adding in lootable kestrel meters to get detailed info could happen also.

Edited April 11, 2014 by akafugitive

[Murlough 192]

Smart idea. I could see that being put to use.

[akafugitive 244]

Even just give text feedback whenever the wind changes then the gesture could be used on the fly.

And to not give off compass headings use the players body as the point of reference(front, back, ride side, left side)

Eg: if you are facing north and the wind is blowing south it would hit you on the front.

Edited April 11, 2014 by akafugitive

[DedicateDdos 50]

small clouds of dust flying up from the ground as well as leafs and the occasional (small) branches should provide at least a solid sense of wind speed/direction.

 

I'm really looking forward to see some epic weather effects, especially storms.

[gibonez 3633]

So I saw recently that Rocket stated that wind will be added to effect bullet trajectory, but only after the figure out how to give feedback to the player.

Moving foliage, flags, ect. Will provide some visual aid, however using the Guesture system you could add a "feel the wind" Guesture that would give basic info through text feedback "the wind is blowing against your front, it feels strong". Adding in lootable kestrel meters to get detailed info could happen also.

 

works perfectly.

 

Arrow that temporarily comes on screen with a keypress. Arrow is the perceived wind direction color of the arrow displays the perceived wind strength.

[l3g1onna1re 1]

Honestly, although I would like to see it, I don't believe using foliage or grass or any alpha masks as a tool to see which way the wind direction is. The engine definitly wouldn't be able to support the amount of rendering it would take; always constantly moving back and forth up and down. Even if the engine could run it, it would destroy even my PC which is let's say elite high-end. Since if I list the specs I know what will happen. 

 

Work demands a ton of modeling, editing, video capture, etc. As well as run 2 other PC's 1 being a server so yes my main desktop is insane. But don't wish to see 500 comments about how "I don't need that" when I do.

 

I am alright with vague command like licking your finger to test the wind, but nothing too specific. Plus you have the clouds already so look up to help.

If it is too specific even like "The wind feels like its coming from the East" then it shouldn't even be added since the simulator aspect would be lost. It should be like "I feel wind on my right" that way you can't use it as a compass or know the speed of the wind.

 

At the moment the FOV zooming the scopes in makes the reticle useless, plus they are for fixed guns. A PSO-1 is only for 7.62x39m ammo e.g, SKS, SVD, AK-47, etc. However when you are sniping, you shouldn't be able to dial your windage bar perfectly by just your finger or the gesture. You should have to have an anemometer or a basic ambient weather tool in order to get the 500m+ shots with perfect windage/elevation.

 

 

But aside from all that, they need to stop trying to implement more things. They need to fix the core mechanics. Guns ballistics are all wrong at the moment, same with scopes as mention above.

 

 

Also look at this mod video (I love it) for ArmA 3. Gives a good idea of proper ballistics, scope, elevation, and wind working together. -> http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=20906

Edited April 11, 2014 by Zipito

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

I can dig it, its logical.

[akafugitive 244]

Honestly, although I would like to see it, I don't believe using foliage or grass or any alpha masks as a tool to see which way the wind direction is. The engine definitly wouldn't be able to support the amount of rendering it would take; always constantly moving back and forth up and down. Even if the engine could run it, it would destroy even my PC which is let's say elite high-end. Since if I list the specs I know what will happen.

Work demands a ton of modeling, editing, video capture, etc. As well as run 2 other PC's 1 being a server so yes my main desktop is insane. But don't wish to see 500 comments about how "I don't need that" when I do.

I am alright with vague command like licking your finger to test the wind, but nothing too specific. Plus you have the clouds already so look up to help.

If it is too specific even like "The wind feels like its coming from the East" then it shouldn't even be added since the simulator aspect would be lost. It should be like "I feel wind on my right" that way you can't use it as a compass or know the speed of the wind.

At the moment the FOV zooming the scopes in makes the reticle useless, plus they are for fixed guns. A PSO-1 is only for 7.62x39m ammo e.g, SKS, SVD, AK-47, etc. However when you are sniping, you shouldn't be able to dial your windage bar perfectly by just your finger or the gesture. You should have to have an anemometer or a basic ambient weather tool in order to get the 500m+ shots with perfect windage/elevation.

But aside from all that, they need to stop trying to implement more things. They need to fix the core mechanics. Guns ballistics are all wrong at the moment, same with scopes as mention above.

Also look at this mod video (I love it) for ArmA 3. Gives a good idea of proper ballistics, scope, elevation, and wind working together. -> http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=20906

The engine already supports wind direction effecting the environment. Smoke and clouds already travel with the wind direction

They should keep adding core mechanics they want in prior to fixing other things though, why have to fix things twice when adding in a new core mechanic breaks what you just fixed. You need to lay the whole foundation before constructing walls and you definitly don't start painting till construction is done.

Edited April 12, 2014 by akafugitive

[Bubbled Luff 27]

1) visual feedback; ability to throw handful of dust or grass up

2) aural feedback; 'hear' the wind blowing into your ear, much as IRL, use the free head movement to gauge direction

Both of the above would only need a few 'levels' to determine strength/windspeed

[gibonez 3633]

1) visual feedback; ability to throw handful of dust or grass up

2) aural feedback; 'hear' the wind blowing into your ear, much as IRL, use the free head movement to gauge direction

Both of the above would only need a few 'levels' to determine strength/windspeed

 

Or

 

Instead of adding an overly complicated method that is counter intuitive how about they just add something simple , non intrusive that works such as ACE's arrow.

 

This is the compass situation all over again.

 

The compass in dayz mod and arma was simple to use and worked. You simply pressed k and a compass showed up.

 

Now you got a clumsy approach to it, where you have to actually equip the compass and then open it and then finally look at it. It is a real clusterfuck for something that in real life is insanely simple to do.

[Katana67 2907]

Plenty of ways they could do it.

 

I'm not entirely sure how they could do a "lick your finger and hold that bitch up" gesture without incorporating more text on the side (i.e. "My finger feels like the wind is blowing from the east).

 

Throwing dirt up is also a solution, though I think it might be hard to animate. To my knowledge, nothing like it has been done in terms of combining an animation with a particle effect.

 

But I think moving foliage is a good way of doing it (if not too performance-heavy).

 

Or just a toggle-able arrow HUD item, not a big fan of this, but another approach nonetheless.

 

I think a lootable Kestrel windmeter might be a good item to include when they include wind as a factor in ballistics. Should require batteries. Shouldn't be overly common. Same thing applies to limited hunting rangefinders.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Katana67

[Karmaterror 982]

I really dont like the idea of some magic arrow you can make appear to show wind direction. We should have to read the enviroment for clues to wind speed and direction. I could go for a gesture to read it, and the lootable wind measure thing. I think it should be just as hard to use as the compass aswell. Then spotters have a proper detailed job to do. Being a good spotter could become an art form. First provide bearing, then swap to wind measureing tool and give that reading, finally check map for a good distance guess from grid squares. All would seem pretty "authentic" to me :)

[gibonez 3633]

I really dont like the idea of some magic arrow you can make appear to show wind direction. We should have to read the enviroment for clues to wind speed and direction. I could go for a gesture to read it, and the lootable wind measure thing. I think it should be just as hard to use as the compass aswell. Then spotters have a proper detailed job to do. Being a good spotter could become an art form. First provide bearing, then swap to wind measureing tool and give that reading, finally check map for a good distance guess from grid squares. All would seem pretty "authentic" to me :)

Authentic you say.

Think about when you are out side and the wind blows how quickly can you just instinctively tell what direction the wind is flowing?

Ask your self do you need a flag or dirt to tell you it is flowing to your left or straight ahead?

You generally don't right its just one of those easy things you can just feel.

Arrow is a good way to simulate that without the need of yet another cumbersome and unrealistic mechanic.

Your skin is the largest organ, it is able to guess wind direction and relative speed even with out training.

[Bubbled Luff 27]

Or

Instead of adding an overly complicated method that is counter intuitive how about they just add something simple , non intrusive that works such as ACE's arrow.

This is the compass situation all over again.

The compass in dayz mod and arma was simple to use and worked. You simply pressed k and a compass showed up.

Now you got a clumsy approach to it, where you have to actually equip the compass and then open it and then finally look at it. It is a real clusterfuck for something that in real life is insanely simple to do.

I don't disagree with you here, compass is a little convoluted to use, but I think that this is the degree of realism they are aiming for in the game. Just having the compass pop up over the screen like in the mod is a tad unrealistic, even if it is more user-friendly. It's not so clunky for those of us playing first-person though as it stands, 3pp have to switch viewpoints to even see it.

So I was just putting out an idea in keeping with that ethos. Having a Tiger Woods PGA Tour type wind indicator arrow on the screen is again, a bit unrealistic.

My suggestion needn't be overcomplicated, I doubt there would be more than 8 possible wind directions and maybe 4 degrees of strength, which shouldn't need masses if animation or overhead processing. But I am no programmer so...?

Perhaps the wind buffeting your ears might be a little distracting, but it would be somewhat 'realistic' - it would also add in another dynamic to being able to stalk people/prey, knowing their hearing was obscured.

[Karmaterror 982]

Authentic you say.

Think about when you are out side and the wind blows how quickly can you just instinctively tell what direction the wind is flowing?

Ask your self do you need a flag or dirt to tell you it is flowing to your left or straight ahead?

You generally don't right its just one of those easy things you can just feel.

Arrow is a good way to simulate that without the need of yet another cumbersome and unrealistic mechanic.

Your skin is the largest organ, it is able to guess wind direction and relative speed even with out training.

 

True, its not something we have to put much thought into for a good guess. But for accuratly countering wind on bullet physics i think we do need a tool included with that gives accurate readings. Further adds to the gear curve aswell. Relying on enviroment at first untill you have that gear piece. Even if they just had the debis in the air blow in the right direction, with varying speed, that could be just as good as an arrow but without the gamey UI intrusion :)

[gibonez 3633]

So I was just putting out an idea in keeping with that ethos. Having a Tiger Woods PGA Tour type wind indicator arrow on the screen is again, a bit unrealistic.

somewhat 'realistic' - it would also add

Is it though?

Wouldn't you say that when the wind blows and hits your skin face and Hair you instinctively know the approximate direction of where it came from this where it's going. Along with direction can you also to the best of your ability also guess strength?

How do we give this information to players something we all posses quickly and in the least obstructive way possible?

This is why I like the arrow method the best.

However for accurate reads and speeds you would still need a krestel.

[Bubbled Luff 27]

Is it though?

Wouldn't you say that when the wind blows and hits your skin face and Hair you instinctively know the approximate direction of where it came from this where it's going. Along with direction can you also to the best of your ability also guess strength?

How do we give this information to players something we all posses quickly and in the least obstructive way possible?

This is why I like the arrow method the best.

However for accurate reads and speeds you would still need a krestel.

IRL you also 'hear' wind direction/strength - sight, touch and hearing all contribute to the ability to tell 'how windy, which direction'.

Honestly, I'd be fine with pop-up compass and wind indicator (should need to find the required item in-game still), but it seems to me the dev team are trying to go with a bit more complexity in performing simple (even instinctive) tasks. Making it more of a simulation perhaps.

Whether this is the 'best' way forward is really down to personal opinion.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Bubbled Luff

[gibonez 3633]

IRL you also 'hear' wind direction/strength - sight, touch and hearing all contribute to the ability to tell 'how windy, which direction'.

Honestly, I'd be fine with pop-up compass and wind indicator (should need to find the required item in-game still), but it seems to me the dev team are trying to go with a bit more complexity in performing simple (even instinctive) tasks. Making it more of a simulation perhaps.

 

 

Don't get me wrong I am all for more depth and complicated features. Remember I want moa/mrad elevation adjustments. I also want a more complex medical system where rags and bandages merely slow down bleeding or stop surface wounds but a gunshot wound requires alot more work.

 

I am hoping the game goes for a mixture when it comes to easy of use especially for instinctive tasks. Something like looking at your compass can be done with relative ease and takes no longer than a second or two in real life however in game this is a chore due to the many steps that are required before you can get your bearing or direction.

[Bubbled Luff 27]

Don't get me wrong I am all for more depth and complicated features.

I am hoping the game goes for a mixture when it comes to easy of use especially for instinctive tasks. Something like looking at your compass can be done with relative ease and takes no longer than a second or two in real life however in game this is a chore due to the many steps that are required before you can get your bearing or direction.

Agreed; It's a difficult balance they need to find. Making simple tasks overcomplicated is not the best for 'gaming', but at the same time, underplaying a skill or task takes away from the 'simulation' aspect.

For me, must first find map/compass/windmeter, and then equip into hand to use. At this point You have an on-screen display (like the compass in the mod). That is enough balance between physically using item (simulation) and not making tasks a chore (gaming). But that's just me, and 'opinions are like arseholes' as they say...

Edited April 12, 2014 by Bubbled Luff

[Ninja_Meh 115]

Don't get me wrong I am all for more depth and complicated features. Remember I want moa/mrad elevation adjustments. I also want a more complex medical system where rags and bandages merely slow down bleeding or stop surface wounds but a gunshot wound requires alot more work.

 

I am hoping the game goes for a mixture when it comes to easy of use especially for instinctive tasks. Something like looking at your compass can be done with relative ease and takes no longer than a second or two in real life however in game this is a chore due to the many steps that are required before you can get your bearing or direction.

in dayz HardCorps mod (1pp only, no chat channels unless you have a radio and dial in the frequencies, as has been adopted now in dayz standalone) they used ACE and i believe ACRE to implement gusting wind sounds, and clouds of dirt occasionally blowing up so those arguing the engine couldnt handle it, i disagree. i played dayz hardcorps on a fairly mid range gaming laptop, and all of that worked fine, granted it wasnt as in depth as actually being used to guage wind direction but, im sure if it could work in arma 2 mod on a crappish laptop, it would be no drama for the newer engine version, if anything it should be MORE likely after the thing goes through some eventual optimisation,. reason i quoted you dude was due to you saying reading a compass takes a second or two, but be real if your running, with a compass in your pocket (unless you had maybe a neclace pouch or similair, which could be yet another idea to maybe lead to a fast track option for using compass) when you take the compass from your pocket, in real terms, you actually have to stop, wait for magnegtic north to kick in to the needle and then align that. just thought i would point out it isnt as easy as pull out compass, easy find north. it does take a few moments just to let the needle settle if anything.

one thing that did make me laugh was this comment about the elite to high end rig being crippled by some basic particle effects... eeeeeeeeyah reel l33t brah lol. maybe your cpu isnt OC'd enough knahmsaying?

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Even just give text feedback whenever the wind changes then the gesture could be used on the fly.

And to not give off compass headings use the players body as the point of reference(front, back, ride side, left side)

Eg: if you are facing north and the wind is blowing south it would hit you on the front.

I like this idea. I've suggested some text feedback so when you check the wind you'll get Beaufort scale texts and maybe even add some particle effects.

 

So when you check the wind you'll get something like "Branches of a moderate size move. Small trees in leaf begin to sway. Wind blows from 4 o'clock. No gusts" Then there could be some dust and loose paper raised as a particle effect and some sound effects. Also the sea could have some nice effects.

This would mean 8.0–10.7 m/s wind but nothing directly says how strong the wind is. I feel that could be very authentic.

[Ninja_Meh 115]

Honestly, although I would like to see it, I don't believe using foliage or grass or any alpha masks as a tool to see which way the wind direction is. The engine definitly wouldn't be able to support the amount of rendering it would take; always constantly moving back and forth up and down. Even if the engine could run it, it would destroy even my PC which is let's say elite high-end. Since if I list the specs I know what will happen. 

 

Work demands a ton of modeling, editing, video capture, etc. As well as run 2 other PC's 1 being a server so yes my main desktop is insane. But don't wish to see 500 comments about how "I don't need that" when I do.

 

I am alright with vague command like licking your finger to test the wind, but nothing too specific. Plus you have the clouds already so look up to help.

If it is too specific even like "The wind feels like its coming from the East" then it shouldn't even be added since the simulator aspect would be lost. It should be like "I feel wind on my right" that way you can't use it as a compass or know the speed of the wind.

 

At the moment the FOV zooming the scopes in makes the reticle useless, plus they are for fixed guns. A PSO-1 is only for 7.62x39m ammo e.g, SKS, SVD, AK-47, etc. However when you are sniping, you shouldn't be able to dial your windage bar perfectly by just your finger or the gesture. You should have to have an anemometer or a basic ambient weather tool in order to get the 500m+ shots with perfect windage/elevation.

 

 

But aside from all that, they need to stop trying to implement more things. They need to fix the core mechanics. Guns ballistics are all wrong at the moment, same with scopes as mention above.

 

 

Also look at this mod video (I love it) for ArmA 3. Gives a good idea of proper ballistics, scope, elevation, and wind working together. -> http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=20906

just to give you your five minutes of "flame" :P lol see what i did there?

 

aaaaaanyway the guy who told you they need to keep adding core mechanics gets my beans, they need to get all the features in, broken or not, and then fix them as they see fit, unless gamebreakers pop up. but also to add to my lambasting, seriously arma 3 ballistics is one thing, but then arma 3 is basically a MIL SIM, where this is aiming to be a civilian SURVIVAL sim so to go all in like every bloody civilian is a top notch shooting expert is, just alienating potential and current players.

 

i still chortled to myself about your "elite" pc comment though *clap clap* sirius how old is your rig if you think it would struggle with some particle effects used occasionally by an engine that would have a set wind speed for all player (also unrealistic but we cant move mountains without making molehills(more bugs))  in a direction that would occasionally change... im just baffled what your elite rig does have in if you think it couldnt hack that, id say its mid to low end lol      XD

 

 

go on, post your setup so we can all analyse and tear it to bits, im bored. xxx

[kichilron 8550]

Moved to Suggestions.

[pillock 850]

I like the idea of a sound effect best. The louder the sound, the stronger the breeze - and it could intensify when you're facing into the wind while lessening when it's at your back to give you direction.

 

I the real world, without using visual indicators you have to test wind for direction by stopping, concentrating, and facing in different directions to gauge the feeling on your skin and hair. It's not an instant subconscious thing unless the wind is particularly strong. I don't see why we should be able to instantly tell in-game without effort.

 

(I also don't agree that using the compass is particularly cumbersome - you just bind it to a number key, then press spacebar. It's easy.)

[Ninja_Meh 115]

I like the idea of a sound effect best. The louder the sound, the stronger the breeze - and it could intensify when you're facing into the wind while lessening when it's at your back to give you direction.

 

I the real world, without using visual indicators you have to test wind for direction by stopping, concentrating, and facing in different directions to gauge the feeling on your skin and hair. It's not an instant subconscious thing unless the wind is particularly strong. I don't see why we should be able to instantly tell in-game without effort.

 

(I also don't agree that using the compass is particularly cumbersome - you just bind it to a number key, then press spacebar. It's easy.)

if your in first person only, but i do like the idea of being able to find things like compass necklace pouches for items like that, that would mean you could apply it to your non inventory space (as was the case with tools in the mod) and it could be applied to lots of different items to free up eventual invent space, for instance a tool belt where you could house things like the small knives, can openers and other things that are annoying to have take up inventory space but intrinsic to survival.

 

like in the mod, to deal with the problem of arrows for crossbows taking up a slot each you combined them to quivers and loaded them from quiver to crossbow.

 

makes sense in my head :P