How to discover/punish ghosting? (For server admins)

[sinnaman 90]

Hey guys,

 

as a server admin I've run into a few challenges, most of which have been possible to find solutions to online. However lately, an issue that has been in the back of my head for a while has proved difficult to find the answer to.

 

The implementation of timeouts for server hopping is great and all, but in prolonged firefights (ones lasting from 10-15 minutes to an hour) ghosting is still a possibility and a nuisance. I know how to kick/ban people, but how to tell what player is guilty?

 

On highly populated servers people join and leave all the time, and keeping an eye on the player list alone won't give anyone an overview of who joined when and where. The server logs are difficult to read as well, and promising to ban any player caught ghosting seems moot when there is no way to know who the ghosting players are - there are no notifiers to tell a person who killed you, and "check pulse" will in most cases only give you "Unknown identity has no pulse.." instead of an actual nickname.

 

Is there a way to read the server logs to see who just killed who, for example? Or are there any improvements in the works to tell;

1. Who killed me?
2. Who did I just kill?

I feel this is a very important issue for anyone running a server (which, for the record, is an expensive affair), trying to prevent and ban ghosting/cheating.

 

Any feedback would be highly appreciated.

[kichilron 8550]

Is there a way to read the server logs to see who just killed who, for example? Or are there any improvements in the works to tell;

1. Who killed me?
2. Who did I just kill?

I feel this is a very important issue for anyone running a server (which, for the record, is an expensive affair), trying to prevent and ban ghosting/cheating.

 

 

That won't prevent exploiting, it would rather lead to a point where serveradmins will abuse it and the reason it won't happen.

[Ubermaster 39]

furthermore. you don't know if that was actually a ghoster. Could be some random dude that just logged in. Because you can't see people names tag directly.

So at this point you never know if it was actually a ghoster.

This is only possible if you know who is who.

[AceRimm3R 11]

Try getting off your power trip, Ghosting is part of the gaming world! Always has been always will be.... You need to play more rather than sitting watching server logs.

[c00lface 66]

Try getting off your power trip, Ghosting is part of the gaming world! Always has been always will be.... You need to play more rather than sitting watching server logs.

This. There are problems that are far beyond any perfect solution so, you just have to deal with it. Remember that its just a game and do your best to enjoy it, besides, its alpha, so something might be done about this in a while, who knows?

[Jex 1104]

Why can't the hive just keep a track of players? If a player leaves a server, joins another then tries to rejoin the original server it's obvious what they're doing and a 30 minute timer is implemented. This mean they'll now have to wait 30 minutes to get back on the server they left but are free to join other servers (following the server hopper prevention system of course).

 

Why can't they just do this?

[Jex 1104]

This. There are problems that are far beyond any perfect solution so, you just have to deal with it. Remember that its just a game and do your best to enjoy it, besides, its alpha, so something might be done about this in a while, who knows?

 

Enjoy being cheated on and getting shot in the back by someone who ghosted? Hi, I'm from planet reasonable :), what planet are you from?

[Greenpants 10]

Why can't the hive just keep a track of players? If a player leaves a server, joins another then tries to rejoin the original server it's obvious what they're doing and a 30 minute timer is implemented. This mean they'll now have to wait 30 minutes to get back on the server they left but are free to join other servers (following the server hopper prevention system of course).

 

Why can't they just do this?

Makes sense to me!

Try getting off your power trip, Ghosting is part of the gaming world! Always has been always will be.... You need to play more rather than sitting watching server logs.

Spoken like a true cheater.

[c00lface 66]

Why can't the hive just keep a track of players? If a player leaves a server, joins another then tries to rejoin the original server it's obvious what they're doing and a 30 minute timer is implemented. This mean they'll now have to wait 30 minutes to get back on the server they left but are free to join other servers (following the server hopper prevention system of course).

 

Why can't they just do this?

You are assuming that every "server hopper" has intentions of ghosting, not allways the case. People has connection issues. People plays with friends in  same servers and will hop to get together, People offen get kicked by badmins and are forced to reconnect to a different server, People lives in different countries that have not many servers and even are forced to play in only one (south america or singapore are good examples).. Of course ghosting is an issue but its not only that, things are more complex

Edited April 9, 2014 by PacificForPeace

[Ankhenaten 111]

> Why can't they just do this?

 

BattleEye failed to update kick wait ..... clan unhappy etc

 

Unless the log shows some coordinates, then maybe you can implement a machine learning algorithm. 

 

Still that guy with the (possibly temporarily) patchy internet connection joining the clan server might get a long waiting time. 

You would then need to add proximity infos between IDs.

 

Aka Id 1234 is often close to ID 4321 and 3241 an 2314 etc... 

So they need probably another server farm just for pattern and anomaly detection  :)

[ptk (DayZ) 178]

This isn't a perfect solution, but at this point the only real option is either to have 360° security if you are in a group, as any disciplined soldier would understand, or bugout quickly if you are alone and see someone log off after engaging. I know those aren't the answers you want but I really haven't seen alot of issues surrounding ghostng, not like it was in the mod. I'm sure rocket n the boys will find a solution in time, but for now...

Watch your six!

Edited April 9, 2014 by ptk

[Jex 1104]

You are assuming that every "server hopper" has intentions of ghosting, not allways the case. People has connection issues. People plays with friends in  same servers and will hop to get together, People offen get kicked by badmins and are forced to reconnect to a different server, People lives in different countries that have not many servers and even are forced to play in only one (south america or singapore are good examples).. Of course ghosting is an issue but its not only that, things are more complex

 

No re-read my post. if you LEAVE a server and REJOIN another SERVER and then REJOIN the first server you were on why would you do that unless you were ghosting? It's an easy fix to ghosting which I would implement.

[Jex 1104]

 

> Why can't they just do this?

 

BattleEye failed to update kick wait ..... clan unhappy etc

 

Unless the log shows some coordinates, then maybe you can implement a machine learning algorithm. 

 

Still that guy with the (possibly temporarily) patchy internet connection joining the clan server might get a long waiting time. 

You would then need to add proximity infos between IDs.

 

Aka Id 1234 is often close to ID 4321 and 3241 an 2314 etc... 

So they need probably another server farm just for pattern and anomaly detection  :)

 

 

No it doesn't need this. If the kicked player doesn't join another server, he won't get flagged. If he gets kicked and rejoins the same server he should get right in,

[iBane 381]

That won't prevent exploiting, it would rather lead to a point where serveradmins will abuse it and the reason it won't happen.

 

Off-topic, but is that avatar James May with a mustache?  HAHAHA

[kimosabbi 48]

This is a fair point I think.

 

Although before we can consider this sort of thing, I would prefer the game to be completed.

 

There is currently no sufficient method in place to punish end users who abuse the game.

 

For example, me and 3 buddies were in the ATC and NEAF when we heard someone load in. We did the usual permiter scan but the guy had logged in to the "glass room" bottom floor of the ATC. (I have seen a player glitch in there after the supposed fix). We ran out bar one player, to the east jail.

 

The guy who stayed behind was killed outside ATC through the wall.

 

After pausing there for around 5 minutes making sure this guy wasn't following I hear a single shot downstairs (doors didn't open) and 1 player dead, no sooner did I hear a shot downstairs a shot rang from behind me (i was top floor back of hall). The guy was teleporting everywhere and one shotting.

 

How am I supposed to report this behaviour if I don't know who it is? I had deduced it was 1 of 5 people but there was know way of knowing.

 

From a player perspective, we have to just live with these unfortunate events and from the original post it looks like it's the same way for an admin.

 

On a sidenote - a different ingame name to your steam name was a bad idea I think. You can virtually cloak yourself.

[AzrailCross 48]

I mulled over this some time ago for quite awhile, and found the only solution I could think of to be foolproof (or at least as far as my thought process went with it anyway..) against all forms of ghosters including calling up a unrelated friend to the current fight to tell him where to go on whatever server he was on and ghost over to the firefight was.. 

 

:drumroll: 

 

Yeah there really isn't one, not a non-intrusive version anyway.

The only actual solution would be to incorporate the 'controlled zone' feature that's planned for the future into being the ONLY places you can spawn on a server.

 

EG. Only allowing you to log into preset points on the map (plenty of them to avoid campers) and the fresh spawn locations (manually choosing which one) or that of actual controlled zones such as a house you've built on the server.

 

Anything short of that and it's likely to end up abused in much worse ways than just dealing with ghosting or the intrusive preset spawn locations.

God knows I never want to hear that standalone now has servers announcing who killed who like the mod, just because they gave access to the logs and someone found a way to have it send the information into the game as it happens.

[Highlander007 249]

a private server admin is like a landlord. what you think would happen if you shot a gun at your landlord irl...?

This game is going straight to the bin, just like the mod if Bohemia doesn't get their shit together regarding regulating this game

[AzrailCross 48]

This is a fair point I think.

 

Although before we can consider this sort of thing, I would prefer the game to be completed.

 

There is currently no sufficient method in place to punish end users who abuse the game.

 

For example, me and 3 buddies were in the ATC and NEAF when we heard someone load in. We did the usual permiter scan but the guy had logged in to the "glass room" bottom floor of the ATC. (I have seen a player glitch in there after the supposed fix). We ran out bar one player, to the east jail.

 

The guy who stayed behind was killed outside ATC through the wall.

 

After pausing there for around 5 minutes making sure this guy wasn't following I hear a single shot downstairs (doors didn't open) and 1 player dead, no sooner did I hear a shot downstairs a shot rang from behind me (i was top floor back of hall). The guy was teleporting everywhere and one shotting.

 

How am I supposed to report this behaviour if I don't know who it is? I had deduced it was 1 of 5 people but there was know way of knowing.

 

From a player perspective, we have to just live with these unfortunate events and from the original post it looks like it's the same way for an admin.

 

On a sidenote - a different ingame name to your steam name was a bad idea I think. You can virtually cloak yourself.

 

For such issues as this I really hope they plan to include a 'report last' option, you die - type some /report Killer /report Killed commands and done. Forwards the killer/killed logs since joining the server to official administration for review. Hopefully with basic info such as location updates, current inventory, ammo, how many shots fired and total shots hit & at which body point, being able to quickly assess if it was a ankle shot that magically is doing 1-shot instant kills or if it's constant headshots or just legit play. 

 

Wishful thinking but it'd be 'best of the best' is the servers could basically do what some other games have done in the past, and directly after server restarts compile the logs in a full on video recreation of all occurrences since start up. Essentially allowing admins to 'watch' the firefights and everything else on a whim to look for suspicious activity.

[Jex 1104]

I mulled over this some time ago for quite awhile, and found the only solution I could think of to be foolproof (or at least as far as my thought process went with it anyway..) against all forms of ghosters including calling up a unrelated friend to the current fight to tell him where to go on whatever server he was on and ghost over to the firefight was.. 

 

:drumroll: 

 

Yeah there really isn't one, not a non-intrusive version anyway.

The only actual solution would be to incorporate the 'controlled zone' feature that's planned for the future into being the ONLY places you can spawn on a server.

 

EG. Only allowing you to log into preset points on the map (plenty of them to avoid campers) and the fresh spawn locations (manually choosing which one) or that of actual controlled zones such as a house you've built on the server.

 

Anything short of that and it's likely to end up abused in much worse ways than just dealing with ghosting or the intrusive preset spawn locations.

God knows I never want to hear that standalone now has servers announcing who killed who like the mod, just because they gave access to the logs and someone found a way to have it send the information into the game as it happens.

 

I just gave the solution, did you read this thread?

[AzrailCross 48]

Buh. Ment to edit this post, ended up creating a new one.. I need more coffee :D

Edited April 9, 2014 by AzrailCross

[kakysas666 191]

No re-read my post. if you LEAVE a server and REJOIN another SERVER and then REJOIN the first server you were on why would you do that unless you were ghosting? It's an easy fix to ghosting which I would implement.

 

I agree, but I sometimes prefer traveling long distances in low pop servers and then joing back my original server. It has nothing to do with ghosting.

[AzrailCross 48]

I just gave the solution, did you read this thread?

 

Thought you were the OP for a second! Anyway, edited post and..

 

Either way, your solution still doesn't prevent *Friends* being called into the server on location to ghost. So, same result ;/

 

More often than not it's not the same people your currently firefighting with that end up ghosting you, it's their friends on skype, teamspeak, ect being told exactly where the firefight is and being told exactly where to log in to be ready to flank. I can generally call on at least two people at any given time I'm online that aren't on my server but are in my general location if I ever felt like being a total asshat about a game, which just goes to show the flaw.

 

So at the end of it all, there is no non-intrusive solution as I originally said, your solution would actually just make my random life be a determent to my playing DayZ since I have logged out, 5 minutes later come back and see the timer, leave again 10 minutes later, and come back 20 minutes later, leave again 5 minutes later, and come back 5 minutes after that.. not my usual thing, but real life events come up and sometimes one right after the other.

Edited April 9, 2014 by AzrailCross

[Jex 1104]

I agree, but I sometimes prefer traveling long distances in low pop servers and then joing back my original server. It has nothing to do with ghosting.

 

If your travels are longer than 30 minutes, you'll get back in the original server with no problem. 30 minutes seems to be a fair number to use?

[Jex 1104]

-Edit; thought you were the OP for a second.

 

Either way, your solution still doesn't prevent *Friends* being called into the server on location to ghost. So, same result ;/

 

No you can't stop that other than making the initial change of server timer 10 minutes which would at least mitigate it somewhat. Also, most times I play Dayz I'm already on the same server as my friends so how many times would that happen anyway?

[kimosabbi 48]

I was going to suggest that there could still be a punishment for rejoining the same server even after 30 minutes determined by cause for disconnection.

 

If client connection is terminated via "Session Lost" then they should be able to hop on back in.

 

If client connection is terminated by user then they should be unable to log in to that same server for at least 5 minutes.

 

However, while writing this I realised that they could very easily get around this by pulling the ethernet cable out and reinserting.

 

Times are tough if you bring a viable idea to the table and destroy it before you've even finished.