Speculation about "coming" loot system(s)?

[Zeppa 562]

Tought to try my luck with this thread as I missed the last bit from the littlebit misleading "Dean Hall engourages server hopping" etc thread that got locked. So if this is left to be, dont derail or flame, but discuss.

Centralized loot system...
Most likely means something where loot tables are located at HIVE level, hive distributes loot to certain servers to be spawned at. So we get several levels or management in this system.

IE NVGs, total number of spawning permissions from the HIVE is 2. HIVE grants rights to spawn 1 NGV at server 1 and 5, total number of servers in the group is 5. Now server 1 and 5 have 0.1% change of spawning NVGs while servers 2-4 has 0% change of spawning NVG.
Also when these 2 NVGs are spawned there is no more spawning, so you need to find person possessing them or where they are stored.
So hive points what and how much loot is granted to servers, servers determine the change of spawning that loot.

I understand the immersion breaking point people brought up, when one server doesnt have all the items. This means you cant just stick to one server and play on that, but to explore several servers to get said items.
This has its ups and downs, which varies through persons. I would consider this positive thing as you get to explore multible "worlds" and people cant hoard tons of high value stuff and everyone cant have the most über gear.
True it breaks "immersion" when you have "same" world with differend people and objects(bases etc). But it brings more to explore and to do. I would welcome that, as it also counters server hopping when you are guaranteed to find item on the same spot as all server are generally the same large server.
Same time it wouldnt matter too much what server you play on, apart from your base location.

Think of it as the 5 times larger map but with same layout all over, not ideal but you get the point. Like in MMOs when you have to use "portals" etc to travel between sections of the map, in this scenario you would change server. Only one server is your "home" section as your persistent objects are there if you have set up a base.
This makes me think that I would even welcome having multible server with different maps under same HIVE, the traveling part aint "realistic" but it would bring more to the game. Also differend maps could have differend distribution of items so would need to explore for items untill people have scattered some of them across the servers.

Downsides I would say being that.
Larger server groups would get tedious to find items if there is only 1 or 2 in the whole "world". This loot system would multiply server trafic by the amount of servers, when people have to seek all over. By trafic I dont mean bandwith, but the lets say amount of differend players in a month. If servers have 100 player slots
and every server has like 80 active players roaming across all the servers its hugely larger change to get your base etc discovered. Sure this could be countered with proper stashes etc.
Edit: After thinking this through again, it woudnt affect the server in anyway... if the cap is 100 and 80 active any given time, its 80. Doesnt matter who the players are, apart from their personal agenda.

In "short", with this kind of loot system there will be no server hopping in the meaning of the word as its now.

It would be some what necesity to play on various servers, but that is only when you need or want to to find something rare and specific like those nvg's etc. So all in all I see the logic in this and think its good system to implement and when its tweaked right.

Its still is a game, one can only make it authentic to a certain point. Immersion is so personal thing, everyone cannot be pleased.
I would like this hardcore game, but also I understand that it would sacriface too much from the gameplay aspect. Fun is not the same for everyone.

I also understand that this may not be how Dean has imagined/designed the system so I may change my mind when its announced, untill then. I think it would be good.

Did I miss something? Im sure I did, point it out!

Edited April 8, 2014 by Zeppa

[pasilius 3]

I agree. Once the respawning loot is introduced, server hopping will be for different reasons for the most part. Different from what they are now, that is.

Most people, that are playing in clans/groups, will be searching and raiding bases all over in order to find that one part for their vehicle.

I suspect the raids that are going to be conducted, will be an effing awesome addition to the game :D

[smoq2 221]

As much as I understand your point, my personal requirement for immersion cannot accept any form of changing servers as a requirement to get the full experience.

 

I simply cannot do enough headcanon to explain myself how that tent up ended next to an area I "claimed", and my tent/base is gone, but hey! I can just go back to "my" server and everything is back to normal again - will be a common experience if you have to switch servers.

 

I also can not bare the explanation that multiple servers can be perceived as a big map that consists of e.g. 5 identical landscapes. It makes me feel like I'm in crazyland or something.

 

I see hive controlled loot spawns as a refined solution, but not an adequate one.

 

As for server-hopping, I can't believe anyone thinks it will be gone. People will still hop, only in no hopes of finding an NVG. They will simply lower their expectations and do it to find an SKS and a backpack + ammo, while those who don't will be running around with a bow and a courier bag.

 

Hopping will still be a valid solution to obtain medium-tier items, instead high-tier like we have now.

 

I do hope I'm wrong, I really am, but I don't think this system will be worth the trade-off for immersion.

Edited April 8, 2014 by retro19

[agentneo 337]

I enjoyed the last debate and was gutted it got de railed and closed.

I think loot should not be centralised on a hive. Each server should be its own self contained world- with the exception of characters been able to bring their inventory from other servers- character hive

 

First lets try to understand how it works and what would happen-

 

I would rather it had a very small chance of spawning in a industrial area. Something like 0.5% chance of appearing in a industrial location every restart. Some restarts of the server it wont be there.

Alternatively what they are suggesting is having control over eg. 100 servers. And only making one heli cyclinder appear 'shared' across all those. So if it spawns in server 1 at 10am,. it wont spawn at any other 99 servers until its used/destroyed? This will make me feel like I am searching the whole map for one part, that might even never ever be there! At least if each server had a very small chance to spawn EVERYTHING, i would be able to search infinitely without feeling  hopeless

 

With this new loot system, searching might feel hopeless, especially if you know, for example, the item you are looking for is restricted,. and other servers have them

 

My worry is this will create impossible tasks for people, and leave you feel hopeless.

I'd rather have a very small percent chance for everything within one server

 

hope i explained that clearly! Self contained worlds, dont make looting pointless

 

-Edit., Another big problem. After reading OP post, he says it will stop people hoarding. But its going to be the opposite effect. If one group for example hordes all the parts that dont spawn again, every other server will have 0% chance of finding them. Making it impossible. And what if said team's server is full. down, or in a far away country? How in the hell is anyone going to find it? it might be out of PING range for example!!! Lots and lots of potential flaws.

 

Lets keep on topic this is a very key area of discussion and very interesitng for all Day Z players

 

Thanks Ne0

Edited April 8, 2014 by AgentNe0

[The_Monk 320]

Centralised loot means people may actually trade for specific gear.

 

Or epic base raids.

 

Also means dupers will be caught easily because presumably, every item will have a unique ID.

[smoq2 221]

Centralised loot means people may actually trade for specific gear.

 

Or epic base raids.

 

Also means dupers will be caught easily because presumably, every item will have a unique ID.

 

Ad.1 I didn't consider trading, so I can not say anything in this regard. I just hope people won't ditch ultra rare parts on logged out characters hoping to gain real buck from the game. Mixing real market economy with a game that does not have its own economy does not sound like a good idea.

 

Ad.2 You mean people grouping up to attack another server? Yeah, real DayZ like... Sorry, unless a base pops up next to mine, in which case a "war" would be a part of necessity, raids to other universes does not count as real DayZ survival experience in my book.

 

Ad.3 Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a hived item tracking system to see what's going on with item distribution. I'm just against the particular set of restrictions they will impose. I could be mistaken, and everything they are doing will hit the nail in the head, but I just think that any kind of incentive that encourages changing servers is just wrong in a game like DayZ. In truth, I thought the game will go in an exactly opposite direction - encouraging a player to stick to one server and face the world he is in.

[kichilron 8550]

I would rather it had a very small chance of spawning in a industrial area. Something like 0.5% chance of appearing in a industrial location every restart. Some restarts of the server it wont be there.

Alternatively what they are suggesting is having control over eg. 100 servers. And only making one heli cyclinder appear 'shared' across all those. So if it spawns in server 1 at 10am,. it wont spawn at any other 99 servers until its used/destroyed? This will make me feel like I am searching the whole map for one part, that might even never ever be there! At least if each server had a very small chance to spawn EVERYTHING, i would be able to search infinitely without feeling  hopeless

 

 

That's the point, though. Some items are supposed to be rare and should not be found, no matter how long you play. I think you're still going in the wrong direction by assuming one would be able to distinguish whether said item is spawned already and on which servers it will spawn or not. It does not create a two class system for servers, as there's no source of information where or when said item will be. It's a huge search for a part you might never find.

 

That's what DayZ is ultimately about. In the mod it was supposed to be the NVG's, but people went rampage duping / scripting them in, which is why everyone had them and why they were removed on some servers.

Edited April 8, 2014 by kichilron

[smoq2 221]

That's the point, though. Some items are supposed to be rare and should not be found, no matter how long you play. I think you're still going in the wrong direction by assuming one would be able to distinguish whether said item is spawned already and on which servers it will spawn or not. It does not create a two class system for servers, as there's no source of information where or when said item will be. It's a huge search for a part you might never find.

 

You're partially right, we won't be able to distinguish whether a given item already exists on a given hive, but I believe this will change the minute it is found - what if someone posts in here that they have the part, or all of said parts that can spawn? In other words, this person holds a monopoly on said part.

 

Now the problem is I know that the part is virtually out of my reach. The very fact of this knowledge kills immersion. I will never find it, unless I go kill that player on another server.

 

Now I wouldn't leave my server, against my "code of immersion" ;), but suddenly another server that is housing the guy with the parts becomes very popular.

 

Do you understand my fears now? I'm afraid that the game will incorporate other media as part of the gameplay and suddenly people will start to make [enter server name here] raids instead of NWAF raids.

That's not how I envisioned the game.

 

Now if the majority finds this suiting, than I'll have to cope with the fact, that DayZ will not be the survival game I hoped to be.

Edited April 8, 2014 by retro19

[agentneo 337]

I agree with not finding a part sometimes, that would be the chance of it spawning. What I dont agree with is giving something a -0% chance on one server and a 10% on another server. That makes some servers randomly pointless, if you need that one particular piece. Im not bothered about NVGs-wish they remove. However playing some breaking point i know how hard it can be finding vechicle parts- and if you then add in another acronymn meaning some parts 'never' spawn, that makes it even harder.

 

as for finding out about where things are..well you say that now and in theory we wouldnt know, but people are going to be hunting down parts and finding out who has what. Its just a matter of time. Anyway i am interested to see how it pans out and would love to hear from a developer about these different concepts of Loot centralisation!

[Zeppa 562]

Fact is that WE wont know the EXACT system and mechanic that is implemented. So you will never know if the item is in the next house or someones base. Even if someone writes here that he have 5 of those.
We need to think this as concept not the imagined number we throw around here, those are merely just to give an example.

Missing tents, thats why I threw the idea of having multible maps. You can pick a map, then pick a random server or join a friend etc. This would counter the same landscape/base issue and bring more to explore. Then people will compain about not having realistic travel like with boat, plane etc etc, you cant have all as said before.

One system wont work alone, that why this loot system would need other mechanics to support it. Agains platant serverhopping, hoarding etc.
Its all about configuration, so think it as concept. Not so how many of what and where and when. Everything is configurable. How many containers can you place to your base, how many containers you can get hold of in the first place, how many items container hold, how many items spawn, how long they last (food) etc etc... everything affect everything.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Zeppa

[Private Evans 1303]

I think a lot of people are stll missing the wild west sandbox, social experiental character of this game. It is up to us, the community to use the "tools"we are given by the devs to create our own awesome game experience. This means the more creative we are the more awesome our experience will be.Like The Reddit Rescue Force or the Medics of the Wasteland we can in this case (loot) establish our own trading system or have servers providing save zones or trading points. Of course we can go as well raiding all over the place, plundering and killing from one server to the next like a hoard of huns or vikings.

 

Imagaine all the rumors about camps full of loot and hidden treasures  :)

Edited April 8, 2014 by Private Evans

[voddler (DayZ) 367]

I agree with you, I really do. Though there's been a lot of points against the idea I agree with as well. It's such a dilemma and has to be implemented correctly to work, I was very fond of the idea when I first heard it in the interview last year? Or the year before that? But when I've read your arguments against it I understand why it can't really work that way. People would try to hoard the items and instead gain other guns, server hopping is one of the biggest flaws within the game right now (zombies not difficult at all) and the same in the mod.

 

Retro brings up a lot of things I do agree with. I do like feeling "special" because I've been lucky. I want to think in the way "What if he has a pair of NVGs? I'll destroy them if I shoot him now.. (Lots of thinking basically, unfortunately not everyone thinks that way...)

 

It's going to be difficult, but I sure hope they'll be able to aim for the "realism and non-immersion breaking" there are just too many weapons out in the world right now and I hope they'll wipe it as duping is possible sadly.

 

CiTRON

[DedicateDdos 50]

The problem I see with limiting loot is that if there are 4 NVG's and 4 people possess them when those 4 aren't playing there's no way of acquiring one, heck if they quit playing there's no way of getting one unless things reset .

 

I'm pretty sure the devs realize the restrictions on something like a centralized loot spawn system I just hope it's done in a dynamic way, or that the "lesser" alternatives are still plentiful and fun.

[voddler (DayZ) 367]

The problem I see with limiting loot is that if there are 4 NVG's and 4 people possess them when those 4 aren't playing there's no way of acquiring one, heck if they quit playing there's no way of getting one unless things reset .

 

I'm pretty sure the devs realize the restrictions on something like a centralized loot spawn system I just hope it's done in a dynamic way, or that the "lesser" alternatives are still plentiful and fun.

Wouldn't that be countered with a certain day-limit your character is offline after a certain amount of days of not playing you simply die. It should obviously not be a few days, but couple of weeks? It's the only way I would think of it.

Edited April 8, 2014 by voddler

[Private Evans 1303]

I think there is no need to worry about some ultra rare items like NVG's or sniper riffles...I see this more as some kind of funny easter egg...I am sure you will hear more rumors about this stuff than ever see it ingame.

[agentneo 337]

I think there is no need to worry about some ultra rare items like NVG's or sniper riffles...I see this more as some kind of funny easter egg...I am sure you will hear more rumors about this stuff than ever see it ingame.

its not about ultra rare items to be honest its saying every single piece of loot can be centralised and in Deans example a vechicle such as a Heli might not have the parts it needs on one server, they might be spread across many servers- this could cause problems we have highlighted- including forcing players to hop servers, perhaps the server with the part is out of ping range, full of players, or the players that have the gear saved are logged out for long periods of time. you essentially create impossible tasks and 'unlootable' loot, hence the cause for concern here. :)

[Zeppa 562]

I woudnt go killing characters that dont play, just remove those rare items and prompt the user about it so he doesnt get all fkd up why its gone. Infact all items could be removed after different amounts of time, fairly common items longer time than those that are rare.
Not everyone can play even weekly, and long lived character may have other value in the future(skills etc etc) so killing that character because of item is just not an option.
 

its not about ultra rare items to be honest its saying every single piece of loot can be centralised and in Deans example a vechicle such as a Heli might not have the parts it needs on one server, they might be spread across many servers- this could cause problems we have highlighted- including forcing players to hop servers, perhaps the server with the part is out of ping range, full of players, or the players that have the gear saved are logged out for long periods of time. you essentially create impossible tasks and 'unlootable' loot, hence the cause for concern here. :)

The ping issue is easy to arrange through server/hive combinations and locations. Servers wont be full of players all the time, queue arrangement.. also I think no one need to go after item X in that second that cant queue or come back later.
But this offline inventory rare items issue is difficult, maybe hive could monitor this behaviour and have an exception to provide the world with a new part.

But again you CANT know that certain people has last/only item of sort OR that those items are not spawned for other reasons.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Zeppa

[agentneo 337]

when you have ever saw a queue arrangement system on Bohemia Interactive game? I hope so but doubt it somehow

[Jex 1104]

This mechanic doesn't bother me. I'm not the type of player that needs to find every single piece of gear because that isn't the game here. NVG's for instance I couldn't care less about. I sleep at night so useless to me but certainly nice to have in the collection.

 

It would be a bit like in the real world meeting a guy who just had to collect every single item he could find and stash it - that would be weird.

 

But if you are the type of person who wants to grab everything, this would drive me nuts knowing I'd have to dig through every....inj fact why even bother finishing the sentence. Who's going to go server hopping just to try and find a pair of NVG's whereby first you have to find the player who has them or the stash they're stored in and it could be in one of 5000 servers and quite possibly the server you just checked now has it but you've left it. This makes finding such items a luck only thing (much like RL) and hunting these things down a near impossibility.

[Zeppa 562]

when you have ever saw a queue arrangement system on Bohemia Interactive game? I hope so but doubt it somehow

I havent, but also bohemias previous games are quite different from this and directed to "certain group" that maybe there has just not been need for it?

[kichilron 8550]

I agree with not finding a part sometimes, that would be the chance of it spawning. What I dont agree with is giving something a -0% chance on one server and a 10% on another server.

 

 

That's not how it's going to work, though. I have been trying to say for a while now, that it won't work like that anyway. Would be server-racism anyway.

Edited April 8, 2014 by kichilron

[Hetstaine 10852]

That's the point, though. Some items are supposed to be rare and should not be found, no matter how long you play.

Like my pristine white leather nightclub shoes i found in Svetlo..i have never been so afraid of bumping into someone as i am at the moment.

[kichilron 8550]

Like my pristine white leather nightclub shoes i found in Svetlo..i have never been so afraid of bumping into someone as i am at the moment.

 

 

I would be if I were you. I bet you look fabulous in it.

Edited April 8, 2014 by kichilron

[Insane Ruffles 74]

So there is supposed to be loot spawning across all the servers, with all Public servers acting as one big loot table together.... so what happens when your helicopter or other vehicle needs a part.... but that part isn't even on that server and wont spawn there for a very long time? You're screwed, unless you can bring your vehicles with you when you switch servers, which would be pretty cool. I honestly think this new loot table idea is extremely stupid, no offense to the author of it. 

      I can already foresee servers lying about their loot, and server hoppers amassing even more than before. "Let's hop servers in this one military place because one of the servers will have something good that no others will."  It will become a nightmare. Want to have a chance at finding a rare weapon? Too bad! The people who have it are untraceable and may even go offline for extended periods of time. 

Edited August 20, 2014 by InsaneRuffles

[Bororm 1156]

Yeah the idea of hopping servers for parts is extremely dumb, and I hope they change their mind about it.  I'd rather see focus on encouraging players to stay on one server, not the opposite.