The feasibility of a dynamically altered Chernarus map[DISCUSSION]

[Pokerguy12 218]

I always like to question myself how can a players life be made a more immersive/interesting journey across and throughout Chernarus+. The experience has to be more than just going from place to place for loot, weapons or water/meat. Without any aim or objectives the life of a character becomes pointless, without purpose, you exist only to interact, kill and acquire loot. One will argue that is all we need because the current set of features alone, gives us as players all the 'tools' we need to make our own fun. I say this is insufficient and makes for little more than barren empty shoebox mod. If we could look at this from another angle and introduce a new perspective into spending the hours playing Dayz, we would doubtlessly make it into more of an experience than a sandbox simulation.

 

We should then work around the concept of introducing more dynamically/scripted changing elements of the sandbox. At this point we all have ideas flaring up in our minds, multitudes of avenues and aspects to approach. I have chosen to look at the physical geography of the map and areas where changing it will bring both immersion and deepen the experience on a scale larger than finding all the weapons and baked beans ever will. 

THE DYNAMIC INTERVENTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT BY PLAYERS. Basically this is where the map Chernarus+ changes dynamically over time according to player interaction/alteration with physical manipulation which in turn produces physical effects. Implementing this will also mean a system where the map has its own ecosystem and changes on its own by some virtual conception of timeflow.

 

Base building/constructions(confirmed).  Burning down a forest. Falling trees. Digging underground tunnels. Rivers that dry and fill up. Clan camp sites. Flooding from bursting dams. Tides that submerge and expose strips of land. Zombie panic events. Thunderstorms with hazardous gales. Radiation zones that require a Gasmask/hazmat. Meteor crashes. These ideas are absurd for technical reasons alone, but what i want to express into your thoughts is the concept of a changing world that makes the place around you feel real.

 

Rocky Dean Hall has recently confirmed hostile/neutral animals, the inclusion of animals and random helicopter crashes are already two steps in the right direction.

What ideas can we include next and do we need to make any changes/corrections to the underlying philosophy of this post.

 

 

 

Vegeta. What does the Dean Hall say about his power level.

 

"After 9000 years in development we hope you enjoy the Dayz alpha"

Edited March 29, 2014 by Pokerguy10

[pacific_coast 632]

i like it

 

but we wont see it

 

maybe in a post-release mod

 

wanna make it? i'm down.

[Weedz 1105]

I've been playing this "barren empty shoebox mod" non-stop for two years straight since the first month it was out and have more fun than any game I've ever played. I'm probably approaching the amount of hours played in DayZ as the major MMORPG I used to play and be professionally sponsored in and "played it like it was my job" (although probably not because I had like 11 months worth of [/Played] hours logged in that game cuz I played it 8+ hours a day for 7 years straight).

 

 

Game is already perfect (the idea not the buggy crapshow we currently have) anything else added on top is just icing on the cake.

 

This engine doesn't have voxel terrain and we'll probably never see digging or anything else that physically changes the terrain (there is nothing under the map). Also keep that in mind when you're playing to freak yourself out you're always walking on only ~1/2 a millimeter thick slab of dirt floating over a never ending abyss! It would be awesome but I don't really care about ideas that aren't even physically possible.

 

They've already confirmed base building so we'll have whole new cities like people have made in Epoch but that's about as much as you can hope for.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Weedz

[pacific_coast 632]

this type of thing would require a persistent memory system serverside

until we have a version of that we cant make it hold more/remember more dynamic changes to the world environment

[liquidsnake 275]

I have been exploring the new north Chernarus lately and I have to say that I already see lots of good stuff up there. A way to improve Chernarus even more is perhaps to make the north side (or another area) completely covered in snow, like Namalsk did for the mod. It created two kinds of worlds and lots of variation. And as you said, radiation zones would be awesome. Imagine having to find a full hazmat suit and corresponding mask to enter an abandoned nuclear plant, which had a melt-down after it was abandoned during the infection. For story purposes the military could've gone there to insert the moderators (preventing a melt-down), but were too late and somehow died there. This would create an exclusive area with high military loot. Also, big zombie herds (think crash sites from the mod) in random places would add a whole lot to the game. You'd better run if you encounter a herd like that in SA.

[Katana67 2907]

I think, in the long term (and I still highly, highly, doubt they'd do this ever) that they need to explore procedurally generated maps. I won't sit here and justify procedural generation, but we're getting to a point (and will be in the next few years) where procedural generation no longer provides bland and unimaginative worlds.

 

The Chernarus map, and Chernarus plus map, is a great map. I've enjoyed it for two years now, and with the standalone, I'm still finding new stuff. But I memorized the original map pretty dern quickly. I suspect, eventually, I'll have this one memorized as well. That removes a bit of the mystery for me and causes some of the aspects to become formulaic.

 

But, with dynamic events, they too become formulaic on a fixed map. Case in point, Red Dead Redemption. The dynamic events there are great, but become old after one has experienced them all.

 

So, I think you're right in approaching the problem from a "player initiated" point of view (i.e. just offering the ability to burn down trees, destroy buildings, etc.)

 

"Base building/constructions(confirmed).  Burning down a forest. Falling trees. Digging underground tunnels. Rivers that dry and fill up. Clan camp sites. Flooding from bursting dams. Tides that submerge and expose strips of land. Zombie panic events. Thunderstorms with hazardous gales. Radiation zones that require a Gasmask/hazmat. Meteor crashes. These ideas are absurd for technical reasons alone, but what i want to express into your thoughts is the concept of a changing world that makes the place around you feel real"

 

The items I've highlighted above seem easily plausible or were the case in the mod.

 

But what makes the place around me feel real is the sense of exploration I get, which is where I think procedurally generated maps would excel. Likewise, the idea of DayZ as a MMO is sort of a farce when we're all split onto relatively small hives and servers. There's no unified world. Chernarus is a big place, but it's not 40,000 players big... or even 1000 players big.

 

Also, we need to figure out how far they're going to go (or be able to go) with persistent objects.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Katana67

[Pokerguy12 218]

I think, in the long term (and I still highly, highly, doubt they'd do this ever) that they need to explore procedurally generated maps. I won't sit here and justify procedural generation, but we're getting to a point (and will be in the next few years) where procedural generation no longer provides bland and unimaginative worlds.

 

The Chernarus map, and Chernarus plus map, is a great map. I've enjoyed it for two years now, and with the standalone, I'm still finding new stuff. But I memorized the original map pretty dern quickly. I suspect, eventually, I'll have this one memorized as well. That removes a bit of the mystery for me and causes some of the aspects to become formulaic.

 

But, with dynamic events, they too become formulaic on a fixed map. Case in point, Red Dead Redemption. The dynamic events there are great, but become old after one has experienced them all.

 

So, I think you're right in approaching the problem from a "player initiated" point of view (i.e. just offering the ability to burn down trees, destroy buildings, etc.)

 

"Base building/constructions(confirmed).  Burning down a forest. Falling trees. Digging underground tunnels. Rivers that dry and fill up. Clan camp sites. Flooding from bursting dams. Tides that submerge and expose strips of land. Zombie panic events. Thunderstorms with hazardous gales. Radiation zones that require a Gasmask/hazmat. Meteor crashes. These ideas are absurd for technical reasons alone, but what i want to express into your thoughts is the concept of a changing world that makes the place around you feel real"

 

The items I've highlighted above seem easily plausible or were the case in the mod.

 

But what makes the place around me feel real is the sense of exploration I get, which is where I think procedurally generated maps would excel. Likewise, the idea of DayZ as a MMO is sort of a farce when we're all split onto relatively small hives and servers. There's no unified world. Chernarus is a big place, but it's not 40,000 players big... or even 1000 players big.

When you have explored every inch of the map and in the process think about how the map is unchanging, every tree and rock will stay in the same spot until the end of time, every supermarket and firestation will always be static with individual loot spawns, every position where a zombie and player can spawn in the plane of space has been predetermined. You will not feel like this game is to be explored anymore, minecraft on the other hand where the the world engine dynamically generates random terrain, that is a game for exploration.

[Irish. 4886]

i like it

 

but we wont see it

 

maybe in a post-release mod

 

wanna make it? i'm down.

 

I think it would be great to see in a mod down the road, a version that randomly creates events on the map. Things like:

 

Heli crashes

Large Ship washes ashore

AI "Eradication Teams" that will show up on the map and hunt down Zombies and players alike (killing and looting them nets you top tier gear)

Hordes of Zombies

Fires

Dam eruptions

Rain + Flooding (this is actually very "doable" if it goes to modding)

Small Survivor campsites (AI bots that will have a scripted story if you "talk" to them, and will either give you help or hurt/rob you)

Supply Drops (meds/food in large quantities - enough for 10 players or so, resulting in a area to fight for control over)

[liquidsnake 275]

When you have explored every inch of the map and in the process think about how the map is unchanging, every tree and rock will stay in the same spot until the end of time, every supermarket and firestation will always be static with individual loot spawns, every position where a zombie and player can spawn in the plane of space has been predetermined. You will not feel like this game is to be explored anymore, minecraft on the other hand where the the world engine dynamically generates random terrain, that is a game for exploration.

This would be way too difficult to do. Unnecessary as well, in my eyes. Variation is key. Add snowy areas, where it's difficult to survive but loot is more plentiful. Add interesting locations that have something to make you want to go there (be it loot, or something else). 

[Pokerguy12 218]

Game is already perfect (the idea not the buggy crapshow we currently have) anything else added on top is just icing on the cake.

 

"....I feel like Dayz Is a fundamentally flawed concept...."

 

Quote from pacific_hall quote from Dean Hall

Edited March 29, 2014 by Pokerguy10

[pacific_coast 632]

"....I feel like Dayz Is a fundamentally flawed concept...."

 

Quote from weedz quote from Dean Hall

you're quoting his quote of my quote of dean's quote

and i'm quoting you

Edited March 29, 2014 by pacific_coast

[Weedz 1105]

you're quoting his quote of my quote of dean's quote

and i'm quoting you

You could say ... it was a Quotecpetion.

 

( •_•)

 

( •_•)>⌐■-■

 

(⌐■_■)

 

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!

[Katana67 2907]

Can anyone direct me to the context of that comment?

[Pokerguy12 218]

I remember battlelog days where we could have a guy quoting 10 other guys before him and every quote is shown in his comment. In all seriousness dude, the founder himself says the game is flawed at the foundational level how can it be a perfect game for you?

[Weedz 1105]

Can anyone direct me to the context of that comment?

I just had to close 8000 popups telling me I've reached my bean quota for today because of you! So here's some fake ones at least  :beans:  :beans:  :beans:

 

 

And again OP your ideas are cool, some of them are going to be in the game, but most are physically impossible on this engine.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Weedz

[Pokerguy12 218]

 These ideas are absurd for technical reasons alone, but what i want to express into your thoughts is the concept of a changing world that makes the place around you feel real.

 

[pacific_coast 632]

I remember battlelog days where we could have a guy quoting 10 other guys before him and every quote is shown in his comment. In all seriousness dude, the founder himself says the game is flawed at the foundational level how can it be a perfect game for you?

dayz had potential (back in the good ol-mod-days) to be the best mp game ever.

 

the sa's lack of real "progression" as a sandox, and regression into an mmo-sim-deathmatch is the "fundamental flaw" for me

[liquidsnake 275]

I remember battlelog days where we could have a guy quoting 10 other guys before him and every quote is shown in his comment. In all seriousness dude, the founder himself says the game is flawed at the foundational level how can it be a perfect game for you?

The founder is a perfectionist, meaning the game will NEVER be perfect in his eyes.

[Pokerguy12 218]

The founder is a perfectionist, meaning the game will NEVER be perfect in his eyes.

he said flawed not imperfect, he was referring to the absense of any element a game has

[anothercynicalbrit 166]

 

 

We should then work around the concept of introducing more dynamically/scripted changing elements of the sandbox. At this point we all have ideas flaring up in our minds, multitudes of avenues and aspects to approach. I have chosen to look at the physical geography of the map and areas where changing it will bring both immersion and deepen the experience on a scale larger than finding all the weapons and baked beans ever will. 

THE DYNAMIC INTERVENTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT BY PLAYERS. Basically this is where the map Chernarus+ changes dynamically over time according to player interaction/alteration with physical manipulation which in turn produces physical effects. Implementing this will also mean a system where the map has its own ecosystem and changes on its own by some virtual conception of timeflow.

 

Base building/constructions(confirmed).  Burning down a forest. Falling trees. Digging underground tunnels. Rivers that dry and fill up. Clan camp sites. Flooding from bursting dams. Tides that submerge and expose strips of land. Zombie panic events. Thunderstorms with hazardous gales. Radiation zones that require a Gasmask/hazmat. Meteor crashes. These ideas are absurd for technical reasons alone, but what i want to express into your thoughts is the concept of a changing world that makes the place around you feel real.

 

 

A bit like battlefield 4 new feature except done properly rather then a gimmick to sell more copies.

 

I think it would be awesome but i think this is something that would be done by modding rather then the devs tbh.

Edited March 30, 2014 by anothercynicalbrit

[Pokerguy12 218]

A bit like battlefield 4 new feature except done properly rather then a gimmick to sell more copies.

 

I think it would be awesome but i think this is something that would be done by modding rather then the devs tbh.

More than that actually, it gives indications and clues as to what could have passed by. Almost like archaeology studies in Chernarus. In BF4 those things are merely for visual effects that no one pays attention to, my proposal creates a dynamically changing world that adds depth to the game.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Pokerguy10

[AryanBoogeyman 185]

I think it would be great to see in a mod down the road, a version that randomly creates events on the map. Things like:

 

Heli crashes

Large Ship washes ashore

AI "Eradication Teams" that will show up on the map and hunt down Zombies and players alike (killing and looting them nets you top tier gear)

Hordes of Zombies

Fires

Dam eruptions

Rain + Flooding (this is actually very "doable" if it goes to modding)

Small Survivor campsites (AI bots that will have a scripted story if you "talk" to them, and will either give you help or hurt/rob you)

Supply Drops (meds/food in large quantities - enough for 10 players or so, resulting in a area to fight for control over)

 

Agree with every thing but AI.  Totally ruins the player generated experience.

 

If you played the mod and played on any AI servers you know what I mean. Seems scripted and fake.

 

Random generated events make a huge difference as long as there is no known roadmap published immediately by some anal nerd... oh wait... the internet... right.

[Katana67 2907]

Agree with every thing but AI.  Totally ruins the player generated experience.

 

If you played the mod and played on any AI servers you know what I mean. Seems scripted and fake.

 

Random generated events make a huge difference as long as there is no known roadmap published immediately by some anal nerd... oh wait... the internet... right.

 

Yeah, non-zombie/animal AI is a no-no for me as well.

 

It was really annoying in the mods that included it. Sorta' takes the suspense out of it and replaces it with confusion whenever you get engaged by AI. Normally, I'd know it's a player and act accordingly.

[DannyRed 32]

I think that the map size should be increased in the future and the borders to be filled with water. Then if boats are introduced in the future you could drive to the north if you wanted to travel more safely. 

You can travel pretty fast to the north with you feet imo and when cars finally arrive it takes even shorter period of time which in my mind makes the game more and more repetitive.

I just hope that the devs increase the size so that me and my pals wont get bored in the future. new maps would be cool too. Would love to see an urban world like New York for dayz. So much cool stuff could be done.
 

Edited March 30, 2014 by DannyRed

[Pokerguy12 218]

^ yes i agree, what would be nice is large lakes and rivers that you need a boat in order to cross, and swimming as well to dive underwater to search for loot/underwater ambush