Do Zombies Dream Of A Good Nights Sleep? (Zombie feedback)

[bobotype3334 160]

Look. Currently zombies are faster than me, stronger than me and take more hits than me to kill. Those three factors together make them too much, IMHO.

 

Zeds like this don't discourage KoS or do anything else good for the game. All they do is discourage solo play and exploring (and I am an explorer by nature, dammit!). These Zeds just encourage people to team up and get firearms... Not a great combo IMHO

Actually, you're quite wrong. Many people have been complaining that "zombies coming up to me ruins my sniping!!" Check the earlier pages of the thread for details. Any PvP Call of Mountain Dewdipie xX360noscopefestXx is going to involve gunshots, which is going to attract zombies. Zombies are a bigger threat now, encouraging people to use their ammo in the zombie apocalypse on the undead menace rather than each other. In short, fast zombies are realistic, scarier, more fun, AND an effective PVP counter.

Maybe zombies should be less stronk in terms of damage, true [why the fuck does being flailed at wildly by a zombie guarantee bleeding? are their hands made of fucking razor blades?] but they should DEFINITELY be harder to kill than a human [they don't feel pain, the virus presumably using them as a carrier of the disease rather than preserving its host, so they don't black out] and definitely be able to run faster than a human [who's lugging a mountain backpack with 10 tins of beans, two assault rifles, a pistol, a ghillie suit, 2 medkits, 4 water bottles, raw cereal, a can opener and a fire axe].

[surfarcher 2]

Actually, you're quite wrong. Many people have been complaining that "zombies coming up to me ruins my sniping!!" Check the earlier pages of the thread for details. Any PvP Call of Mountain Dewdipie xX360noscopefestXx is going to involve gunshots, which is going to attract zombies. Zombies are a bigger threat now, encouraging people to use their ammo in the zombie apocalypse on the undead menace rather than each other. In short, fast zombies are realistic, scarier, more fun, AND an effective PVP counter.

Maybe zombies should be less stronk in terms of damage, true [why the fuck does being flailed at wildly by a zombie guarantee bleeding? are their hands made of fucking razor blades?] but they should DEFINITELY be harder to kill than a human [they don't feel pain, the virus presumably using them as a carrier of the disease rather than preserving its host, so they don't black out] and definitely be able to run faster than a human [who's lugging a mountain backpack with 10 tins of beans, two assault rifles, a pistol, a ghillie suit, 2 medkits, 4 water bottles, raw cereal, a can opener and a fire axe].

So... I am wrong but I am right? LOL!

 

Dude... I was saying the current combination of the three just feels like too much. Hence the damn "OR" being put in my post - leaving it up to the devs to decide which. You see, I want Zeds to be dangerous. Just not so over the top lol

 

That said, IMHO damage probably is the attribute that should be tweaked back just a smidgeon. That might be right in the sweet spot. I just didn't presume to tell the devs which attribute it should be ;)

[bobotype3334 160]

So... I am wrong but I am right? LOL!

 

Dude... I was saying the current combination of the three just feels like too much. Hence the damn "OR" being put in my post - leaving it up to the devs to decide which. You see, I want Zeds to be dangerous. Just not so over the top lol

 

That said, IMHO damage probably is the attribute that should be tweaked back just a smidgeon. That might be right in the sweet spot. I just didn't presume to tell the devs which attribute it should be ;)

And I said "Maybe". I would like to see bleeding switched up to be less common, replaced by breaking of bones on hit more so than bleeding. Plus hits knocking you unconscious.

[timedance 120]

constructive feedback: current dayz-zombies are shit

 

please respect it :D

[agentneo 337]

It isn't just a matter of opinion. Zombies are not a threat if you can easily run away. You can't make zombies deadly any other way except something exceptionally retarded such as invisible zombies or zombies who shoot guns at you. Slower zombies are maybe more fun if you're a bandit who likes to snipe without being disturbed

If DayZ had a small, constricted linear map, slow zombies would be closer to being a threat. As it is, DayZ doesn't, and therefore they aren't. Fast zombies ARE the only way to go.

As I have said many times experiment with different speeds. the current speed is too fast for their bloody run animation. Looks like their on a treadmill. as i mentioned some games strike a nice balance at jog speed, where you could out run them whilst sprinting but they can catch you whilst jogging. And I think your wrong, Mid range or slow zombies would be fine and cause significant threat if done right and at optimal numbers.

 

Basically, i dont think you played Breaking Point  or listened to the points properly. Their zombies don't even aggro properly but have a good speed, and there is large hordes of them even on a super large map with no cover like Altis. If we had Day Z standalones zombies in their numbers, and a bit slower, they would be perfect amount of number and power. I would say slow them down to just below sprint speed so they would still catch you while jogging, or running with  gun out, but so you can still out run them if sprinting flat out. I also think we should have some kind of stamina meter to prevent running forever.

 

Black OPS zombies were also a good shout, they have a good mid range speed as I discussed earlier, they can keep up but not out sprint. The damage on those is perfect- 3 strikes and your down. I think DAY Z Zombies should have a 2 strike rule. Get strukc once-- you'll survive, but 50% chance of heavy bleeding. Get hit twice in quick succession, or without bandaging, and your going down. They need to be deadly and people  shouldnt be risking getting hit by going up for the circle axe whack

 

Finally they need to be able to turn faster on their radius. When we circle them they need to be a bit snappier animations and spin round quicker.

As I have discussed previously, I would enlist a range of new elements to make the zombies far, far more challenging than they are currently while still reducing the speed slightly. As a veteran of many zombie games, I stand by my points that by simply whacking the speed of Z to faster than>Human Sprint, is a weak cop-out and instead of making the zombies a legitimate threat you have simply put speed up and turns them into homing missiles. It makes the games so shallow and basically like any hack and slash where enemies just spawn, lock onto the player, charge towards them spamming attack. Its a very shallow and 'easy' system in my opinion and unrealistic. I am bored of left 4 dead style gameplay.

 

My ideas have been noted before so i will repeat the basics-=

-jog speed, slightly below player sprint

-stamina meter stops over-use sprint

-zombies die head shot only. No 'cop out' maximum body damage. Head shot only by all fire arms and melee.

-Infection from bites

-2 slashes /hits is fatal

-Zombies hearing is currently only 100m. I would make gunshots 1000m (all zombies within 1000m radius drawn to gunshots)

even with slower zombies, if they aggro'd properly to noise and in a large circumference there would be a much greater threat than the current system

 

Fast zombies= poor man's zombies

[finnpalm 312]

Look. Currently zombies are faster than me, stronger than me and take more hits than me to kill. Those three factors together make them too much, IMHO.

 

Zeds like this don't discourage KoS or do anything else good for the game. All they do is discourage solo play and exploring (and I am an explorer by nature, dammit!). These Zeds just encourage people to team up and get firearms... Not a great combo IMHO.

 

Make the Zeds slightly slower or slightly weaker or slightly easier to kill and I think those aspects of Zombies will be perfect.

 

Which just leaves the damned glitchiness of them to be fixed. Which might wait until the actually start work on the final Zeds.

 

Too bad the devs are using Waterfall instead of Agile... This game would be evolving at a very rapid case if they were...

 

The devs are using Scrum, which is an agile project management technique.

 

well if we have 50 players per servers as a ballpark,. and 100 zombies per player, that is 5000 zombies.

I think that is doable

 

Stop aiming so low with your expectations.

Why can't we have large hordes and big numbers of Z's just like breaking point managed in arma 3.

If they can do it standalone can piss all over it.

 

5000? They managed to have what? 400 infected when they removed all the loot?

 

Here is my feedback:

1. Zombies outrun me in a dead sprint even with no gear

2. Not sure if 1 is intentional since my buddy wit gear on is even faster than me

 

Are you running with a weapon in your hands? Because you run slower with something in your hands than you do with empty hands.

[trev186 389]

Are you running with a weapon in your hands? Because you run slower with something in your hands than you do with empty hands.

No weapon in hands...SPRINT max speed and they catch up to me even when I have a sizeable lead....

There is something wrong with my toon as my buddy is faster than me by almost 20%.

Even when freshly spawned I am slower sprinting then him and he was fully geared.

Somehow my character is just slower than everybody else...which with the current state of zombies means I have to kill em all since they dont really get LOSed...

Edited May 8, 2014 by trev186

[finnpalm 312]

No weapon in hands...SPRINT max speed and they catch up to me even when I have a sizeable lead....

There is something wrong with my toon as my buddy is faster than me by almost 20%.

Even when freshly spawned I am slower sprinting then him and he was fully geared.

Somehow my character is just slower than everybody else...which with the current state of zombies means I have to kill em all since they dont really get LOSed...

 

Are you actually using the sprint or just running normally? Maybe check your control settings?

[agentneo 337]

 

5000? They managed to have what? 400 infected when they removed all the loot?

 

 

 

1000 in alpha i heard so yeah easily doable. Play some breaking point, then come back and tell me not possible.

[trev186 389]

Are you actually using the sprint or just running normally? Maybe check your control settings?

TRUST ME I know the difference between the two. Sprinting is not faster than the zombies for me...

I have not played over 200 hours without figuring out the controls....

I am full on booking it as fast my character can go.

[finnpalm 312]

1000 in alpha i heard so yeah easily doable. Play some breaking point, then come back and tell me not possible.

 

This is not the Arma 3 engine. Again, they can have many infected if they remove everything else basically. If you want a world that's completely empty except for infected, then yes, it's doable. If you want other players, loot and so on, then no.

 

TRUST ME I know the difference between the two. Sprinting is not faster than the zombies for me...

I have not played over 200 hours without figuring out the controls....

I am full on booking it as fast my character can go.

 

Well, then I don't know. Hope you figure it out.

 

EDIT: Oooh, the forum has a new script that mashes your posts together if you double post. Neat!

Edited May 8, 2014 by Strawman

[agentneo 337]

its pretty much the same engine,  and it's a smaller map, why are you forcing your opinion? Most people here would like to see proper hordes of zombies and the zombies been a legit threat (and from what I read, people would prefer proper amounts of zombies) and not just a few tank zombies that charge around like Usain bolt. So either we all take your attitude- negative, nothing can be done, make do with a few zombies per square mile.

Or we use the forums constructively, give ideas how to improve it, and also give our thoughts on how a proper 'zombiefied' Day  Z would play...

[finnpalm 312]

its pretty much the same engine,  and it's a smaller map, why are you forcing your opinion? Most people here would like to see proper hordes of zombies and the zombies been a legit threat (and from what I read, people would prefer proper amounts of zombies) and not just a few tank zombies that charge around like Usain bolt. So either we all take your attitude- negative, nothing can be done, make do with a few zombies per square mile.

Or we use the forums constructively, give ideas how to improve it, and also give our thoughts on how a proper 'zombiefied' Day  Z would play...

 

You're misunderstanding me.

 

I'm arguing that because of limitations it's not possible to have the hordes you would like to see.

 

Then I argue that the current direction they're taking the infected is more suitable to the setting.

 

I'm not forcing anything. It's my opinion. Take it or leave it. Or by all means argue against it if you like.

[agentneo 337]

well I'll argue it... Day Z mod even had acceptable levels of Zombies in towns..like 20 or 30 strong hordes and pretty much zombies dotted all over the streets. The Mod was acceptable. If we had as many zombies as that they wouldnt need to have a faster sprint speed than the character. At least equivalent, or jog speed is better. Breaking Point has bigger mobs of zombies and uses a system dynamic spawning to only render what is 2500 mtrs around the players. So you dont have the whole map spawned in everything at once. You dont need to swap loot for zombies. there are many methods to attain this. The Game can already handle acceptable mobs.

 

I dont think you understand the game engine and what it is capable of. You can have 60 player games in Arma 2 where each player controls 10 AI. that is 600 player controlled AI + enemy Ai on the map. They are much more dynamic than homing missile zombies that have literally no AI other than speed and attack animation. Arma 3 engine isn't much different when it comes to items, lag and everything else.

 

Why doesnt one of the developers come and enlighten us on the maximum loads. I have played variations of Arma 2: Day Z Mod that have extra Zombies., AI Patrols, heli Drops, shit loads of vechicles and buildings....And your saying 5000 zombies is not possible. I have to disagree.

Edited May 8, 2014 by AgentNe0

[finnpalm 312]

well I'll argue it... Day Z mod even had acceptable levels of Zombies in towns..like 20 or 30 strong hordes and pretty much zombies dotted all over the streets. The Mod was acceptable. If we had as many zombies as that they wouldnt need to have a faster sprint speed than the character. At least equivalent, or jog speed is better. Breaking Point has bigger mobs of zombies and uses a system dynamic spawning to only render what is 2500 mtrs around the players. So you dont have the whole map spawned in everything at once. You dont need to swap loot for zombies. there are many methods to attain this. The Game can already handle acceptable mobs.

 

I dont think you understand the game engine and what it is capable of. You can have 60 player games in Arma 2 where each player controls 10 AI. that is 600 player controlled AI + enemy Ai on the map. They are much more dynamic than homing missile zombies that have literally no AI other than speed and attack animation. Arma 3 engine isn't much different when it comes to items, lag and everything else.

 

Why doesnt one of the developers come and enlighten us on the maximum loads. I have played variations of Arma 2: Day Z Mod that have extra Zombies., AI Patrols, heli Drops, shit loads of vechicles and buildings....And your saying 5000 zombies is not possible. I have to disagree.

 

But does Arma have loot lying around all over the map?

 

I also think it's suboptimal to have only that which is in the vicinity of the player spawn, because then we get the effect like in the mod, where you can tell if someone is close because there are infected spawned in an area.

 

Also, slow infected are a lot less dangerous than fast ones, even if in hordes. They need to be a serious threat in my opinion. Not just a nuisance to be avoided.

 

And, as I've said earlier, the idea of slow moving "zombies" stem from them being risen dead, and not being able to move normally because their bodies are decomposing. The tendons in the body are among the first things to degenerate after you die. There is nothing in a virus that seemingly induces rage that makes it logical for the infected to move slowly. Rather the opposite, since rage causes the adrenaline to flow, and since the infected in DayZ are supposed to be living humans we can assume that such bodily functions still work properly.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

If you're being killed by infected you are doing it wrong and should feel really bad about yourself.

[surfarcher 2]

And I said "Maybe". I would like to see bleeding switched up to be less common, replaced by breaking of bones on hit more so than bleeding. Plus hits knocking you unconscious.

Sure, maybe those would be good options - I leave it to the devs to decide.

 

But my basic point was that zombies are currently just a little OP. While I think they need to be reined back just a little I would hate to see them get nerfed too hard.

[surfarcher 2]

The devs are using Scrum, which is an agile project management technique.

Scrum is a variation of Agile. Go read the Agile Manifesto and then answer a question for me "where is the rapid delivery?"

 

A certain zombie survival MMO is about to go into release has demonstrated a significantly more Agile approach by strong alignment with principle 1.

 

But what would I really know? Even though I've been in the industry 21 years I'm not inside the dev team... Are you?

 

 

[jasonb 10]

Its not about how many zombies are in the map. I can put a 1000 on my arma 3 zombie maps if I spread them out far enough. Its about how many are active (aggro ed or simulated) at any time which is the performance killer. Zombies can be pre-placed frozen objects causing no CPU strain until simulation activation. (Enable Simulation False - Which means they don't animate at all not even breathing and hide object(Zombie) true) or spawned in. I'm guessing zombies become active at 200 meters in DayZ however they have switched to respawnable zombies which means they can put about 5 re-spawnable in a town instead of 10 frozen ones per town. Im guessing they actually spawn in. However if 40 players are in different towns at once, the complications would be deciding how many zombies global can become active/spawn at once. I'm not sure how multipllayer works in general but in my maps it seems that Everybody's actions on the map cause CPU strain for everybody else including zombies. 

 

Anyways.... Balance. IT's no fun having 10 slow zombies that can't do shit. 60-100 slow moving zombies per area however...

Trust me if game companies could do it, they would have thousands of Walking dead style zombies. Tech on some engines just aint there. Although I' quite impressed by a couple of the console games out at the moment - Dying light.  

Edited May 8, 2014 by JasonB

[finnpalm 312]

Scrum is a variation of Agile. Go read the Agile Manifesto and then answer a question for me "where is the rapid delivery?"

 

A certain zombie survival MMO is about to go into release has demonstrated a significantly more Agile approach by strong alignment with principle 1.

 

But what would I really know? Even though I've been in the industry 21 years I'm not inside the dev team... Are you?

 

No, I'm not part of the dev team. I'm studying project management among other things.

 

I was just pointing out that they're using Scrum, since that's what they've said they're doing.

 

I wasn't aware that you were referring to the technique named "Agile". I thought you were referring to the general concept of agile project management, which is why I pointed out that they're using Scrum which is an agile method.

 

Its not about how many zombies are in the map. I can put a 1000 on my arma 3 zombie maps if I spread them out far enough. Its about how many are active (aggro ed or simulated) at any time which is the performance killer. Zombies can be pre-placed frozen objects causing no CPU strain until simulation activation. (Enable Simulation False - Which means they don't animate at all not even breathing and hide object(Zombie) true) or spawned in. I'm guessing zombies become active at 200 meters in DayZ however they have switched to respawnable zombies which means they can put about 5 re-spawnable in a town instead of 10 frozen ones per town. Im guessing they actually spawn in. However if 40 players are in different towns at once, the complications would be deciding how many zombies global can become active/spawn at once. I'm not sure how multipllayer works in general but in my maps it seems that Everybody's actions on the map cause CPU strain for everybody else including zombies. 

 

Anyways.... Balance. IT's no fun having 10 slow zombies that can't do shit. 60-100 slow moving zombies per area however...

Trust me if game companies could do it, they would have thousands of Walking dead style zombies. Tech on some engines just aint there. Although I' quite impressed by a couple of the console games out at the moment - Dying light.  

 

They are currently not spawned as "frozen objects". They're moving about and doing their little idle animation.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Strawman

[finnpalm 312]

Sorry, double post. (I was under the impression that there was a script that fixed double posts..)

Edited May 9, 2014 by Strawman

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

First off, in the mod, there was only a handful of building types you could enter meaning less model detail eating up the server performance.

 

Second off, ALPHA, meaning bad server performance meaning less zombies.

[lipemr 160]

First off, in the mod, there was only a handful of building types you could enter meaning less model detail eating up the server performance.

 

Second off, ALPHA, meaning bad server performance meaning less zombies.

 

How do you explain DayZero then, that had almost every building enterable and the FPS were way better than in the vanilla mod (that's WAY better than the SA), along with flawless dangerous zombies, better than anything we've seen on the game so far.

 

Excuses... Excuses...

[bobotype3334 160]

Sure, maybe those would be good options - I leave it to the devs to decide.

 

But my basic point was that zombies are currently just a little OP. While I think they need to be reined back just a little I would hate to see them get nerfed too hard.

Well yeah obviously they are a little OP now, but only because of their free xXwallhaxXx in the form of scenery clipping, something I've been bitching about since day 1, and the whole problem with respawning at the moment, which effectively ruins stealth for players and makes engaging zombies hugely unpleasant. In terms of zombie stats they're balanced, the bugs/unfinished game mechanics are what's making them overpowered [fighting a zombie that's melding with a staircase is bullshit].

What they need to do is

 

• 1): Make zombies have a little get-up-from-corpse animation, which lasts about 30 seconds, after they're killed rather than just instantly respawning, as a placeholder until they get better respawn mechanics 
• 2):Change zombies causing bleed, in part, to bone-breaking
• 3):FIX FUCKING WALL CLIPPING, HOLY TITS
• 4):Make 50% of the military ammo/equipment ingame spawn on military zombies and police/riot police zombies as incentive

My own personal suggestion was that zombies be able to sprint slower than the ungeared player, but sprint endlessly, in fitting with the virus not giving a fuck about preserving its host as anything but a method of spreading the virus quickly. Players themselves have a finite sprint before they tire out and go back to a jog, and that jog is slower than zombies can sprint, meaning they can catch up. Being geared up ruins your ability to sprint, meaning vehicles aren't just a pleasant addition to decrease travel time, they're a necessity so the zombies can't keep up with you and your 80 cans of beans.

As it is at the moment, it's good: players are finally seeing zeds as a bigger threat than KoSing.

[bobotype3334 160]

Its not about how many zombies are in the map. I can put a 1000 on my arma 3 zombie maps if I spread them out far enough. Its about how many are active (aggro ed or simulated) at any time which is the performance killer. Zombies can be pre-placed frozen objects causing no CPU strain until simulation activation. (Enable Simulation False - Which means they don't animate at all not even breathing and hide object(Zombie) true) or spawned in. I'm guessing zombies become active at 200 meters in DayZ however they have switched to respawnable zombies which means they can put about 5 re-spawnable in a town instead of 10 frozen ones per town. Im guessing they actually spawn in. However if 40 players are in different towns at once, the complications would be deciding how many zombies global can become active/spawn at once. I'm not sure how multipllayer works in general but in my maps it seems that Everybody's actions on the map cause CPU strain for everybody else including zombies. 

 

Anyways.... Balance. IT's no fun having 10 slow zombies that can't do shit. 60-100 slow moving zombies per area however...

Trust me if game companies could do it, they would have thousands of Walking dead style zombies. Tech on some engines just aint there. Although I' quite impressed by a couple of the console games out at the moment - Dying light.  

NO. PISS OFF WITH ALL OF THAT. Not to sound like a boor, but none of that at all is necessary when you can simply have fewer, faster zombies. You could have 10,000 slow zombies, and 100 fast zombies would still be a bigger and better threat because it's a big, open map with lots of directions to run away and lots of guns. The Walking Dead argument has been brought up before, but this is a game where player sleep can't be implemented, so you're never forced to stop except during 30 seconds of logout time; and also, in The Walking Dead, may I remind you that the more constant threat is, in fact, "kos" issues with other humans such as the Governor, because they've worked out plenty of ways to deal with slow zombies. Slow zombies, no matter the numbers, are never a threat unless you're dumb enough to get cornered, which doesn't happen on a huge open world map.