The Official Unofficial Bandit Removal Petition

[NeptuneHydro 4]

With no bandit skin, there's no real punishment, and with that, DayZ becomes a death match. (even more so)

Honestly, as is, bandits are a disgrace, there's no real logic behind it other than 'Hurdur i'm going to rungun anything that moves'

At least by bandit skins players risk it and PAY THE PRICE for merciless actions such as sniping a character that they so easily could've ignored crossing their path 1km away.. I think bandit system could be improved, not removed.

[Sabre (DayZ) 4]

Fail. DayZ has pretty much been a deathmatch game for some time now... Removing it will only solve the problem with people being forever stuck as bandits.

Also, once you become a bandit (bloody fast) you'll have to decide if you want to risk getting killed by every single player you encounter or just be the first to finish it. What people like you fail to understand is that this whole system has been broken for a long time, and that a good deal of the bandits now are a result of justified self-defense.

[B4N3 0]

signed.

[Goose Springsteen 9]

Just to reiterate what I said just before the bandit system was implemented.

"Hey All,

I just thought that as someone who does occasionally indulge in a spot of PVP'ing I might give some thoughts on the matter of the (what I assume is) the impending morality system.

Personally speaking, my concern regarding this likely feature is that it detracts from the present emergent consequences of acting like a dick in the game, namely that if you persist in killing other players the penalty is already there: you have alienated someone who is likely to want revenge and may even attempt to actively seek you out and kill you.

Instead of this, some kind of morality based system that penalizes players who PVP seems far too arbitrary and (if I may use the term without irony) gamey personally. New people who see you for the first time shouldn't know whether you are good or bad based on the colour of your name or your skin, rather they should have to form their opinions of you based on your actions and from what they have heard from other players.

Worse still is the prospect of negative stat effects for those who PVP, again I think that the consequences for being a killer are already sufficient to present their own challenges and putting someone at a disadvantage because they kill other players through stats seems to me to be a cheap move."

[leon026 0]

Yea. PVP should be disabled.

They should also add different zombie types.

And a safe house with weapons.

The ability to kill zombies in melee so that you arent too overwhelmed.

Wait, thats called Left 4 Dead.

[Nitrous (DayZ) 0]

Wow, so many precious people in this thread.

People have the right to play this game in any way they choose and should not be categorised with skins. They did that in Fable 1, 2 and 3.... you grew horns and shit. You gonna ask for that next? Am I gonna have to carry a fuckin pitch fork around everywhere I go so Steve, Geoff, Tarquin and Dave know Im a baddy whos gonna steal their 1337 lootz?

I own Arma 2, not fucking Call of Duty, Its supposed to be REALISTIC!!! Realism is NOT changing a players skin all because he shot Dwayne fucking Dibley in the face over a can of hotdogs. If you walked past a serial killer in the street, would you expect him to have a sign over his head saying "SCHIZOPSYCHOSOCIOPATHSERIALKILLINMOFO"??? Uhm no.

Some of the carebears on here need to realise theyre not playing COD or BF3 or some other shit game that panders to every whiner in the world with hearbeat faggotry detectors and Night vision automatic aiming invispwnage scopes.

Please Rocket, continue adding realism to this mod and ignore some of these whiney arsed carebear, hello kitty online playing mofos.

/endrant

[The Killing Joke 43]

Yea. PVP should be disabled. They should also add different zombie types. And a safe house with weapons. The ability to kill zombies in melee so that you arent too overwhelmed. Wait' date=' thats called Left 4 Dead.[/quote']

Either you misread the title and nothing more, or you're making an attempt at a joke. PvP is great. It's being branded I can't stand.

TKJ

[daedrick 90]

Thing is, in reality there are clues as if people are murderers that you can't get in a video game without visual help. You can always trust a guy with a bandit skin and he can be the most helpful guy in the world, but you have a visual clue that he did indeed kill high humanity survivor.

In reality, the guy with insane loot, alone, suddently want to be your friend. He act wierd, he have a wierd behavior, you feel it that something is wrong with that guy. The way he dress, the way he move, the way he talk, the things he say, the tools he have. You can't display that kind of thing in a video game without some visual clue, being a bandit doesn't keep you from grouping, its simply a visual clue.

It should stay in. Reset on death? Maybe, I dont know. Personnaly I like that there is some kind of consequence, and the most funny thing, is that bandits dont group together.

[masacrualex 6]

I hope the bandit system stays. Removing it makes it hell. There's no consequences and people will kill freely. It'll be impossible to walk with good gear without getting shot, this way it keeps many at bay from killing others.

People have the right to play this game in any way they choose and should not be categorised with skins. They did that in Fable 1, 2 and 3.... you grew horns and shit. You gonna ask for that next?

This is not Fable. Fable is a single player game, this is a multiplayer mod for arma 2. Totally different. Also it's irrational to kill everyone you meet, unrealistic too, I doubt everyone would be a sociopath and whatnot. Since you brought the "people have the right to play the game in any way they choose". Some choose to RUIN other's FUN. Why have my 5 hours survival ruined by some griefer? That way I know he's a killer.

[Jamesbiff 4]

Honestly it needs to go. Ive been killed MORE times by people in normal skins than i have by people in bandit skins and in all honesty, ive found people who are bandits to be much much more helpful than many other players ive come across.

And to the mechanics of the issue; like i have stated many times on here and on the game itself, the morality system is BROKEN. I got my bandit skin because i killed two guys sat in the tree line in cherno shooting down into the city, they were in normal skins, i flanked around behind them and popped them both in the head BOOM bandit skin. What did i do to deserve the bandit skin? kill people trying to gank new players in cherno? Ive since embraced my banditry so its of no real consequence to me. However trying to get back your humanity is impossible, the amount of bandits ive seen offer to give people blood packs to get their humanity back only for a few minutes later their angry chat messages pop up about being killed.

Remove or refine, Rocket, its the only option, as it is now its broken.

[The Killing Joke 43]

I hope the bandit system stays. Removing it makes it hell. There's no consequences and people will kill freely. It'll be impossible to walk with good gear without getting shot' date=' this way it keeps many at bay from killing others.[/quote']

Welcome to the reality of the new world.

Why have my 5 hours survival ruined by some griefer? That way I know he's a killer.

Here is the inevitable problem with the system. Let's say you come across a team of three of these bandits, and you immediately fear for your safety. Why? Because they're wearing that skin. As it turns out, you were right. These idiots are all 12 year olds, playing as you expect them to, and they attack you. You take them all out, masterfully. (Really. You're a great player! Nicely done.)

Uh-oh. What just happened? You got attacked and now YOU'RE wearing the bandit skin? Oh no! Now what? Oh, right. Yeah, now YOU are the one that's looked upon as the bad guy! You can't group with anyone. Who would have you?

You find a nice friendly group in town, and chat them up from a distance. You explain what happened, and they invite you in. One guy shoots you in the back of the head, calls you a "liar" in chat, and the game goes on.

Fair, right? I mean, you WERE wearing the bandit skin...

TKJ

[Krobar 75]

I would only consider removing bandit skins when direct chat is fixed and all players have mics, that being said... I'm going to be in favour of bandit skins for a long time.

[The Killing Joke 43]

I would only consider removing bandit skins when direct chat is fixed and all players have mics' date=' that being said... I'm going to be in favour of bandit skins for a long time.[/quote']

I agree with you that the chat functionality has to be fixed. I believe I've read that this may be in progress. Make no mistake, I'm in no way saying that we need to remove the bandit skins. I'm saying, make it a personal choice.

In the coming apocalypse, when someone turns on someone else, they're not going to suddenly turn into this strange monster that everybody will shun and shy away from. They're going to do what they do, and nobody is going to be any the wiser.

All I want is to keep the realism aspect high. ArmA II has prided itself on realism over all, and DayZ has taken it one step further. I haven't enjoyed a game as much as this since EvE.

TKJ

[Captain Kirk (DayZ) 0]

The humanity is one of the things that makes this game really awesome.

If anything people should stay bandits for longer like a 24h period. Also tweak the system somehow so people wont go bandit for self-defence.

[Quasar (DayZ) 1]

Definitely agree with TKJ's last post. Realism is the thing - if I want to be a 'bandit', that should be a personal choice, not one forced on me by a game mechanic.

I do agree that you should have to pay the consequences for your actions - and you do. If you kill everyone you meet, then you're going to be alone when the zombies come.

[The Killing Joke 43]

The humanity is the one things that ruins immersion and gamplay.

Thanks. I'm glad you see it my way.

;)

If anything people should stay bandits for longer like a 24h period. Also tweak the system somehow so people wont go bandit for self-defence.

If you do it to one side' date=' you should do it to the other, as well. Players who are AWESOME should glow white, to show their divinity.

Seriously, man. Every post you make in favour of "people who shoot other players should be immediately branded" only serves to prove you would rather play a different game, without people in it. You don't want PvP. You wan't safety. You want friendly fire turned off, so you can't accidentally hurt somebody's feelings for killing them when the horde overruns you.

Your ideas are bad, and you should feel bad.

Definitely agree with TKJ's last post. Realism is the thing - if I want to be a 'bandit', that should be a personal choice, not one forced on me by a game mechanic.

Thanks, brother. /brofist

I do agree that you should have to pay the consequences for your actions - and you do. If you kill everyone you meet' date=' then you're going to be alone when the zombies come.[/quote']

This is very, very true. Some people LIKE playing like this. (I do.) I'm not a huge fan of having to play in a group, because people disappoint me. They don't do what I want them to do, most of the time, and sooner or later, I want to shoot them in the back of the head because they're stupid.

That being said, I LOVE what Rocket has done, making the cities nigh impossible to access without a group. You know why? Because I take it as a personal challenge.

Rocket says, "HAH! You think you had it bad BEFORE? Fuck YOU, have 100X more Zeds! See if you and your loner, bandit ass can handle THAT SHIT, motherfucker!!!"

TKJ says... "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED."

TKJ

[Machinations 1]

The whining is epic.

Quite honestly, the morality mechanic is required. I am a bandit myself, the only reason to not want the skin change is to make it easier to kill unsuspecting nubbins.

The only legitimate argument to not want the skin change/morality is for players who are about to be attacked by survivors who shoot first and kill the survivors. They lose morality and may end up as bandits themselves, despite firing in self-defense.

The simple solution is to tweak the morality mechanic somewhat; perhaps a grace period, or implement a way to determine who fired first. It will never be perfect, but it could be tweaked. Also, provide a way for bandits who want to change their ways to more easily raise morality.

I doubt the prostars whining about the skin, however, will accept this.

More importantly, there is no legitimate reason to not want the bandit skin, except you want it easier when killing people. As a bandit myself, I have no sympathy for you, nor do I want friendly fire removed or any other 'care bear' mechanics introduced.

TLDR;

Tweak morality mechanic, don't remove it

Provide methods for bandits to raise morality more easily

[The Killing Joke 43]

Quite honestly' date=' the morality mechanic is required.[/quote']

You forgot "in my opinion". In my opinion, it's not. See how that works?

I am a bandit myself' date=' the only reason to not want the skin change is to make it easier to kill unsuspecting nubbins.[/quote']

Sure you are. No really, you saying that has really changed my mind. It's all wrong, all of it.

The only legitimate argument to not want the skin change/morality is for players who are about to be attacked by bandits who shoot first and kill the bandits. They lose morality and may end up as bandits themsevles' date=' depiste firing in self-defense.[/quote']

No.

Another 'legitimate argument' is in immersion. If you walk up and slap somebody on the street, do you immediately change your clothes? Tattoo "I just slapped a guy!" on your forehead? No. People who see you do it or get told by people that you did it know you did it. That's it. That's all.

I doubt the prostars whining about the skin' date=' however, will accept this.[/quote']

Spoken like a true carebear. Kudos. You've totally changed my mind with your awesomeness.

/facepalm

TKJ

[Gutterboy44 0]

For now, the bandit skin affords players valuable feedback. A lot of us are just feeling out and exploring this world for the first time and being able to avoid bandits via their distinct skin gives us a few more hours in Chernaus.

However, I would like to see it evolve into a much more subtle distinction, especially with the possibilities of different clothes/skins and ghille suits in future updates. Perhaps something as subtle as a change in way their face looks, hardened, dead eyed. Maybe in the future when it moves over to Arma 3 that game engine will offer the ability for minor facial tweaks. The reason I defend this is that "realism" does include being able to make snap judgement about people's personalities based on the look of their face, their eyes, body language, etc. Not everyone is going to be wearing a necklace of ears, but it would be interesting to explore the various ways in game personalities and intentions could be expressed.

[dallas 5195]

Glad someone agrees, without humility there's no reason to hold your fire, you simply shoot anyone in sight and then DayZ is nothing but a deathmatch session like any other game.

With humanity you have to weigh your actions versus rewards. If you kill another player, you'll become an outcast, which seems perfectly realistic to me. Without specific skins any player who chose to play as playerkiller, can do so with full inumity and anonymity, because ArmA doesn't have CounterStrike death messages or lame red or green colored nametags above their models.

[Nitrous (DayZ) 0]

Another 'legitimate argument' is in immersion. If you walk up and slap somebody on the street' date=' do you immediately change your clothes? Tattoo "I just slapped a guy!" on your forehead? No. People who [i']see you do it or get told by people that you did it know you did it. That's it. That's all.

Spoken like a true carebear. Kudos. You've totally changed my mind with your awesomeness.

/facepalm

TKJ

All totally true. Arma 2 is one of the most realistic combat sims out there, if not 'THE' most realistic combat sim. If I wanted half of the features people on here are asking for, I would just go and play Stalker on SP or hammer L4D.

If theyre going to keep this humanity nonsense, then you should lose humanity for looting corpses and not burying them. Or lose humanity for letting your buddy go hungry when youve got 8 cans of beans in your pack. Oh and you should lose humanity for swearing in chat too and not using cutlery when eating. I could go on....

Screw Day-Z lets get Rocket to create a mod called "Christian caravan adventures" instead, that should keep people happy.

The current bandit skin is the equivalent of a bright flashing neon sign saying "Murderer" which is unrealistic and is just carebear catering nonsense. I want to be on edge when I meet a stranger, I dont want the clearest indication possible that he may or may not have done something dodgy in the past.

I want realism, and if the people on here who have bought ARMA 2 just to play this mod, dont understand that ARMA 2 is all about REALISM, then they shouldve thought more about things before going out and actually buying it.

Seriously, I just wish all the "Remove PvP" and "I need my hand holding" brigade would piss off back to COD, HKO, WoW and other such pieces of turgid crap.

[oilman 72]

This thread should by all means just be locked since it's the 50th time we've had it and it doesn't seem to be getting anywhere (yet again), but, I'm in hospital after getting my wisdom teeth out and on my phone's internet explorer, and can't seem to get the fucking lock thread function to work. Consider yourself lucky in that regard.

All I'll say is, tone down the ad hominems. Words like 'carebear' don't make your points any stronger.

[dallas 5195]

I just think you completely eliminate the interesting aspect of the gameplay if you remove bandit skins. Remember half the bandits wearing them are forced to become an outcast/pvp opponent, because they either killed someone intentionally or becuase they simply defended themselves.

So not all bandits are actually stone cold killers, but by their actions, they are switched to the opposite side and can expect to be froced to fight anyone they meet. The humanity system allows coop and competative players to join the same servers and to interchain these two different play styles. That's pretty unique, players are forced to interact socially, but by happenstance, they can also be forced to become hunted bandits.

[Nitrous (DayZ) 0]

This thread should by all means just be locked since it's the 50th time we've had it and it doesn't seem to be getting anywhere (yet again)' date=' but, I'm in hospital after getting my wisdom teeth out and on my phone's internet explorer, and can't seem to get the fucking lock thread function to work. Consider yourself lucky in that regard.

All I'll say is, tone down the ad hominems. Words like 'carebear' don't make your points any stronger.

[/quote']

Sorry for getting irate dude, but this being a great mod has attracted a lot of people from all gaming backgrounds. If a lot of them had their way, we would all be respawning with fully loaded M4s, 20 mags of ammo, Crysis style invisibility cloaking suits, 300 mile range heartbeat sensors and a /godmode command that makes them invincible for 29 seconds every 30 seconds.

Friend/foe recognition in a game like this should be down to your own instincts, like in a real life situation. A lot of the complainers want their hands held, which shouldnt happen in a mod like this and I'm sure Rocket doesnt want that either.

[sgtrock79 4]

How about this.

- remove bandit skin. Make it possible to choose your own skin/pick up clothing.

- add the ability to, within speaking distance, interact with another player and 'ask for their name'(bind to a key). When the other player agrees, his name will be shown when you look at him. Now you "know" him. If he denies for some reason, you don't know who he is and you probably can't trust him.

- Keep humanity as an hidden stat and add wanted posters through out Chernarus. When you interact with one, it will list the names of the players that are currently playing on the server with an humanity below a certain amount(the old bandits). This way 'bandits' are still penalized, but they look the same as everyone else. Only if you have checked the wanted posters and remember, you can know if the person you're talking to is a 'bandit'.

- add an option to ask someone how many people he has killed. He can lie about, which would decrease his humanity a bit or tell the true and gain some humanity.

- Also if you kill someone with a lower humanity than yourself. You should lose less humanity, than if you kill some one with a lower humanity. This way your aren't penalized as hard for self-defense.

I hope this makes any sense ^_^