Rethink Reloading

[Mullraugh 1151]

we could do it surgeon simulator style where you actually have to move your hands and fingers!

[doublebrain 255]

No, opening a can with a knife is way harder than replacing the magazine on a gun. It just is. Heck, I can field strip an unfamiliar weapon faster than I can open a can with a knife.

 

Yea? Well nice for you but for me its different. In countries where not every 6 yo child has its own handgun people dont have a clue how you actually reload a gun. I mean... you get that mag in there somehow. Thats all I know. I cant just make my gun shoot in 1,5 seconds while walking and getting shot at while zombies are lurking around. And all world is not america where everyone got guns in their cupboard. And because your an average guy in DayZ you should not be able to reload a M4 just as easy as you obviously can.

So make it a little more complex. Its DayZ and not BF or CoD or ArmA or CS or TF. Its something different. So why not make something different that has never been different in the past?

 

And srsly opening a can with a knife is... quite easy? Maybe you should shoot less with your guns and train your finger skills by time so you dont starve in the Z-pocalypse.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Symon

[Valadain 270]

Yea? Well nice for you but for me its different. In countries where not every 6 yo child has its own handgun people dont have a clue how you actually reload a gun. I mean... you get that mag in there somehow. Thats all I know. I cant just make my gun shoot in 1,5 seconds while walking and getting shot at while zombies are lurking around. And all world is not america where everyone got guns in their cupboard. And because your an average guy in DayZ you should not be able to reload a M4 just as easy as you obviously can.

So make it a little more complex. Its DayZ and not BF or CoD or ArmA or CS or TF. Its something different. So why not make something different that has never been different in the past?

 

And srsly opening a can with a knife is... quite easy? Maybe you should shoot less with your guns and train your finger skills by time so you dont starve in the Z-pocalypse.

 

Yes, I fully acknowledge that my country is superior in this regards. But seriously, yes, for some it will be something to learn. For like ten minutes. Then you know how to do it. Opening a can with a knife is an annoying, painful, and dangerous task every time you do it. But then, I also know how to open a can without a knife. So I won't be starving.

[doublebrain 255]

Yes, I fully acknowledge that my country is superior in this regards. But seriously, yes, for some it will be something to learn. For like ten minutes. Then you know how to do it. Opening a can with a knife is an annoying, painful, and dangerous task every time you do it. But then, I also know how to open a can without a knife. So I won't be starving.

 

I think it will take some time till you can reload a gun without realy thinking about what you are doing. But thats exactly how its in DayZ. So simply some action you need to do when reloading could improve the immersion.

- Click R

- Some action where you need to pay attantion so you do it right

- Maybe R again

 

Also veteran DayZ players would most likley improve their "reloading skills" because they are familiar with the process. So if you can reload a gun pretty fast in real life- just train a little in DayZ and you might be able to reload pretty fast ingame too.

[Valadain 270]

I think it will take some time till you can reload a gun without realy thinking about what you are doing. But thats exactly how its in DayZ. So simply some action you need to do when reloading could improve the immersion.

- Click R

- Some action where you need to pay attantion so you do it right

- Maybe R again

 

Also veteran DayZ players would most likley improve their "reloading skills" because they are familiar with the process. So if you can reload a gun pretty fast in real life- just train a little in DayZ and you might be able to reload pretty fast ingame too.

 

The learning curve is so short, I just don't see the value. There isn't anything you need to "pay attention to". It is all pre-planning. You need to know where the mag goes ahead of time (have an empty pocket) and know where the mag is you are replacing with (have easy access to full magazines). Basically, inventory management. A mechanic they already have and could just slightly tweak to slow magazine pulls from difficult to access places (backpack).

 

Edit: By the way, if you think there is some complex action involved, you are wrong. Release is a button push. Seating a magazine is a straight push. There's no levers, switches, or anything else you need to deal with unless you have a gun from California. In which case, you should leave the last bullet for yourself.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Valadain

[srgntpepper 85]

This is interesting, but I think it would discourage a lot of people from trying the game.  There is already an overwhelming amount of information for new people in the game, it takes a while to learn and get everything down, adding this might just discourage any newcomers.  Interesting idea though.

[qww 287]

so noone thinks having to press tab, then drag and drop ammo woudl be enough ?

i think this is fine, because it takes both hands and  it puts you out of the game for a sec, while you are checking inventory and then dragging the ammo, realistic enough for the game, in my view

 

remove r for reload, woudl be great

[MagneticToast 102]

Nah, too in depth. I'm all for making reloading take longer, but I'd also like to be able to reload any weapon by pressing R if you have the rounds for it. If they are in your pocket it should take longer than normal. Going into the inventory to reload some guns seems so 1999 to me

[qww 287]

im not suggesting it because i like the look of it, i just feel its a good enough way to simulate the distraction of having to reload.

 

its about taking both your hands out of the game, making you look at your gun, like in real life,

 

you can do it fast, and you arrange your ammo in an easy to access spot like you would in real life,

 

when i 1st started playing i thought it was how you had to reload, and i thought it was a good way to do it.

[Jex 1104]

They should make the reload process like surgery simulator or Octodad lol

[Zuulass 45]

i wouldnt want to press a bunch of buttons to just reload

but maybe instead of military trained reload

it would be like a more natural (civilian?) reload

like the guys hand slips maybe and fumbles the mag or clip around

[Valadain 270]

i wouldnt want to press a bunch of buttons to just reload

but maybe instead of military trained reload

it would be like a more natural (civilian?) reload

like the guys hand slips maybe and fumbles the mag or clip around

 

Again, that sort of thing would last maybe a day or too. Swapping magazines is easy. It is designed to be easy. People are getting too tied up in this "we aren't military guys". That whole civilian thing goes away pretty quickly when circumstances get bad. Not to mention, a country in a civil war has very few civilians.

[Zuulass 45]

Again, that sort of thing would last maybe a day or too. Swapping magazines is easy. It is designed to be easy. People are getting too tied up in this "we aren't military guys". That whole civilian thing goes away pretty quickly when circumstances get bad. Not to mention, a country in a civil war has very few civilians.

hmm true

maybe just a slip up but it doesnt happen a lot

just more animations but same time to reload

just to spice it up a bit

Edited March 15, 2014 by Zuulass

[entspeak 374]

I like the idea of having a more complex reload.  Also, it should take a little longer to reload mags with ammo.  Right now, it's drag and drop, instant refill.  It should take more time.

[daisho 74]

This actually is a cool idea but I think it's too much, I'd rather like to see reload take longer and weapons should jam every now and then.

 

/edit:

 

Again, that sort of thing would last maybe a day or too. Swapping magazines is easy. It is designed to be easy. People are getting too tied up in this "we aren't military guys". That whole civilian thing goes away pretty quickly when circumstances get bad. Not to mention, a country in a civil war has very few civilians.

 

I'm not entirely sure if that is true. Sure, stuff would look different in a similar scenario, but just because media only is covering the bad stuff, doesn't mean there only is bad stuff happeneing and people do nothing else than slaughtering each other...

Edited March 15, 2014 by daisho

[AP_Norris 1018]

I would like the mag release and such to be automated, reloading should be slightly slower and positioning of magazines could speed up how fast you grab it.

Eg. If you keep M4 mags in assault vests you will produce another mag almost instantly.

If anything cocking should be its own key, that way we can cycle rounds and have bolt actions and pump actions be more fun.

Maybe holding R and Cock could perform a breech load for when you desperately need one more bullet.

Mag loading should be time consuming near to a minute for 30Rnd + mags.

I think this is a situation where automation gets the job done well enough.

Edit, I just thought about it and maybe a mag remove/ button wouldn't be so bad, but I think it should merge with the grab & insert by tapping the button you would drop the mag out the bottom of your gun without grabbing to insert a new one quicker.

By holding the button until you hear the new mag being grabbed you would get the full mag replaced in your inventory by the empty one.

The quick could also be changed to a fast double tap? IDK.

Edited March 15, 2014 by AP_Norris

[daisho 74]

Maybe holding Cock could perform a breech load for when you desperately need one...

 

 

Is this thread going slightly offtopic?

Edited March 15, 2014 by daisho

[Roshi (DayZ) 397]

I had some thoughts about this a while back but didn't post.

To 'reward' those who had a real world understanding of how to use firearms (I'm not one of these people) I thought you could have a binding process that you use when you first pick up a new weapon type for your character. I feel this spproach is worthwhile because DayZ (I believe) is about simulating how well you personally would do in the zombie apocalypse

This would involve weapon models with subcomponents that could be manipulated in the inventory using the mouse (eg magazine release catch, pulling back the charging handle - forgive me if I have misnamed the different parts).

Essentially when you first reload the weapon, you do so manually by manipulating the appropriate weapon components on the model in the inventory and then bind this sequence to the 'R' key. If it is executed in the correct order then it works; if it isn't, it doesn't. The point being that if you don't know how to operate a particular weapon then trial and error is required, or you have to be taught or look it up. An in game book could be useful here.

As an optional extra the time it takes you to perform the task could be the time the reload takes when you press the R button. If a 'soft'/implicit skill system is added to the game then repeated reloading could improve your reload speed (rapidly at first and then with diminishing returns).

This approach to using complex items could be extended to other items.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Roshi

[mgc 92]

The duration of the reloading animation as a measure of character skill, trumps player input.

 

p.s.

Practicing reloading should not shorten the animation (for obvious reasons) but perhaps hours played (on the same character) could.

Edited March 16, 2014 by mgc

[hunk92 5]

[Roshi (DayZ) 397]

p.s.

Practicing reloading should not shorten the animation (for obvious reasons) but perhaps hours played (on the same character) could.

Really? Why not? The hallmarks of motor skill learning are smoother, more efficient and faster motion (with a lower error rate) as the sequence of movements becomes less under conscious/explicit control and becomes automatic and implicit. Practice and repetition with directed attention are the main reasons that you get better at a given motor task.

Think of playing a musical instrument or driving (or of any motor skill for that matter).

Edited March 17, 2014 by Roshi

[mgc 92]

Because sitting in a quiet corner of the map for an hour to grind your reload skill is no fun.

[Roshi (DayZ) 397]

Because sitting in a quiet corner of the map for an hour to grind your reload skill is no fun.

Well sure if you're that obsessive you could do that. Having diminishing returns would limit that though - you get relatively quick improvements (largely because you would start off pretty rubbish) but then further practice accumulates speed (and possibly reduces errors if you could screw up and drop your magazine) more slowly. You'd be less likely to go out of your way to practice for the sake of it as the cost (in terms of boredom and time spent practicing) outweighs the reward (improved speed). You'd then improve more subtly just by staying alive and shooting zombies (and probably other players).

[mgc 92]

""You'd then improve more subtly just by staying alive""

Can we move straight to this ^ concept and leave the boring details to the imagination? Saves coding as well. Lets assume the character can improve over time without the player having to spoon feed it?

 

Press button x times = result

Physically developing motor skills is just another grind unless you'd do the activity (in this case playing the game) anyway.

[Roshi (DayZ) 397]

Yeah this is going nowhere. We've both put our views forward. It is not just staying alive that makes you improve. It's performing the action in question that improves it's performance, not just time spent alive. What you're proposing is Skyrim where you improve in all skills the longer you play regardless of what you do. What I'm proposing is Skyrim without any overt cues about your skills improving. I've said enough I think - I'll let other people have a say.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Roshi