Rate the Morality of these Kills

[Paule2934 7]

Spent a few hours playing with my brother last night and I ended up killing eight people.  He got a few, not sure exactly how many.  Please rate the morality of each of my kills, I am interested to see which you think were justified and which were not.   Rate each on a scale of 1 (Completely Abhorrent) to 10 (Completely Justified), and give any comments.

 

Kill 1:  My brother was in the firestation at cherno looting the shelves under the stairs.  Suddenly someone opens up on him with an M4 without warning and he is unconscious.  The assailant attempts to finish him off with a couple of axe blows as he is down, but fails.  Assailant loots him and then leaves the firestation out the back door in a couple of minutes.  I put my Mosin w/ LR scope away and hide behind the concrete wall outside the firestation.  He walks out past me and I gun him down with my FNX.  No words were said by either side over voice chat during this encounter.  I am able to revive my brother with food and medical supplies looted from the assailant's body, and relieve him of his fully kitted M4.

 

Kill 2: We enter Elektro from the North and I see a man running with an axe in his hands toward the firestation by the church.  I shoot him with my Mosin w/ LR scope, no words said.  Don't think he ever saw me.

 

Kill 3:  I am just outside of the school in Elektro and see 3 guys about 200 meters down the street outside of an orange building.  Two have m4's, one is a fresh spawn.  I shoot one of the M4 wielders in the chest with my Mosin.   The other two run away.

 

Kill 4:  I am on the hill Southeast of the firestation.  An unarmed man goes to loot a different body near the open field between the firestations.  The body has an M4 and other gear.  I shoot him with my Mosin.

 

Kill 5:  An unarmed man is climbing up the ladder to the top roof on the other firestation.  I see a man with an M4 sitting inside the firestation on the top floor taking aim at the unarmed man.  I shoot the armed camper with my Mosin. 

 

Kill 6:  I also shoot the unarmed man who was climbing the ladder, he falls to his death (if he wasn't dead on bullet impact).

 

Kill 7:  A guy with no pants with a violet taloon backpack and a fully kitted M4 comes running up right behind me, but does not notice me because I am laying on the ground wearing camo and he obviously is not very observant.  I drop my Mosin, pull out my M4, and kill him.

 

Kill 8:  Another guy with no pants runs up to me a few minutes later and starts trying to punch me.  I tell him to go away.  Realizing that he does not have the drop on me, he complies and runs off. But then he comes back carrying a fire extinguisher a few minutes later.  Concerned by the fact that he knows where I am, won't leave me alone, and that the corpse of the other naked guy I just killed is laying nearby with a lootable M4, I kill him with my M4.

 

Were these kills necessary?  Would you have done the same if you were in this position?  Or would you have handled some of these situations differently?  I don't care to hear any "I wouldn't be in Cherno or Elektro in the first place because I like to diddle myself in the less populated areas on the interior of the map."  Just curious to see how others view morality in this game and how they qualify whether a kill is "necessary" or "justified". 

[iBane 381]

Lolllzzz

[savini 587]

I engage in a firefights if I am being attacked or threatened...or if someone is too close and refuses to back off after repeated warnings.

 

If I notice an armed player or a group of armed players I will slip away.

 

I refuse to shoot unarmed players unless they are chasing me down or just being annoying in general.

 

In general, I play friendly and use my weapons for self defense. Occasionally I'll patrol the coast looking for 'bandits' who are holding up fresh spawns...should I find them I will instigate a firefight with them. On those occasions I switch to 'hit n run' tactics.

 

The only downside to those occasions is that I don't know the full story. It could be that the person they are holding up was a 'bandit' that had killed their friend or something...and I would have killed the 'good' guys. Usually I'll wait and observe...watching for tell tale signs of 'banditry' such as force feeding bleach to someone, or knocking a restrained person unconscious.

 

That's my own personal preference though.

 

[EDIT: Fixed and added a couple things.]

Edited March 6, 2014 by Rhodes

[PoppinHeads 14]

I think the first kill is the only morally-justified one.  I would not have killed them.  I am role playing when I play DayZ.  It's us (human) vs. them (undead).  I'm not just going to shoot someone I see because they have a gun.  By that logic, everyone should just shoot me (because I have a gun), even though I consider myself a hero, and go out of the way to try and help those who I come across.  I think it's pretty shitty (in real life, and this game), to judge a book by its cover, and consider someone with a rifle slung over their shoulder a direct threat to my safety.

 

PS - yea, I die a shit ton.  But it just isn't a fun experience to me to shoot others who aren't doing anything to directly threaten me.  Even when they are, I typically try and deescalate situations.  I have 157 hours in the game, and have killed 2 people.  One was some glitch where my gun started firing when I hadn't even clicked on anything (plus he was in my group).  The other was a guy that chased me around punching me.  he had no clothes on and no gear, but wouldn't stop following me.  I exercised great restraint, telling him to leave me alone all the way through two who towns.  Finally, I turned around and knocked him out, and just left him there.  Maybe he didn't die??

Edited March 6, 2014 by PoppinHeads

[Paule2934 7]

Interesting.

 

So Rhodes, based on your personal play style/ moral compass, Kills 5 and 7 are in a grey area I think.  Would you have shot the m4 camper in the tower before giving him a chance to fire in effort to save the fresh spawn?  Or would you have watched it play out first and only killed him if he did kill the fresh spawn? And would you have killed the m4 toting naked guy who walked up within a few feet of you, or would you have held him up, tried to sneak away, talked with him, etc?

 

PoppinHeads, I do see the appeal of going around helping others and respect you for doing so.  My problem is that I crave action and don't like dying.  If I tried to get my action from being friendly and assisting other survivors, then I believe that I would see a sharp increase in deaths because so many other people are not friendly. 

 

The problem is that at this point in the game's development, it does not take much (if any) skill to simply survive, so it isn't all that fun to just carry on PvE style.  Having friendly encounters with other survivors is definitely fun when it works out, but the problem is that there are too many people out there who will shoot you even if you run up to them and wave and say "friendly."  Dying in this manner is too frustrating and thus I do not do it anymore. 

 

The thing that I find takes the most skill and gives me the most excitement at this point is trying to survive as long as possible while intentionally engaging and killing as many other survivors as possible.  Preferably armed individuals, as fresh spawns are not much sport... whether to kill them or let them be is more dependant on my mood I guess.  In any case, with this play style any time I die it is due to my own lack of skill rather than the fact that I willingly left myself open to attack for the sake of being friendly and got taken advantage of.  It is a selfish play style I think, but it is fun while the game is in this very early stage of development and there is not much else worth doing (IMHO).

[savini 587]

Interesting.

 

So Rhodes, based on your personal play style/ moral compass, Kills 5 and 7 are in a grey area I think.  Would you have shot the m4 camper in the tower before giving him a chance to fire in effort to save the fresh spawn?  Or would you have watched it play out first and only killed him if he did kill the fresh spawn? And would you have killed the m4 toting naked guy who walked up within a few feet of you, or would you have held him up, tried to sneak away, talked with him, etc?

 

Five is a tough one. It may have been that they were friends...or you may have been right in taking him out before he killed the other guy. It's tough to say, but these kinds of situations are quite fun to deal with. Fun in the sense that you are forced to make a decision that may or may not save someone.

 

I think in this situation I would've let it play out. If the m4 guy attacked the fresh spawn I would kill the m4 guy. I usually carry a number of medical supplies on me, so I would try to save the fresh spawn if possible. Not before taking out the mag, or hiding the m4, just to make absolutely sure he doesn't shoot me after I revive the fresh spawn.

 

 

The problem is that at this point in the game's development, it does not take much (if any) skill to simply survive, so it isn't all that fun to just carry on PvE style.  Having friendly encounters with other survivors is definitely fun when it works out, but the problem is that there are too many people out there who will shoot you even if you run up to them and wave and say "friendly."  Dying in this manner is too frustrating and thus I do not do it anymore. 

 

The thing that I find takes the most skill and gives me the most excitement at this point is trying to survive as long as possible while intentionally engaging and killing as many other survivors as possible.  Preferably armed individuals, as fresh spawns are not much sport... whether to kill them or let them be is more dependant on my mood I guess.  In any case, with this play style any time I die it is due to my own lack of skill rather than the fact that I willingly left myself open to attack for the sake of being friendly and got taken advantage of.  It is a selfish play style I think, but it is fun while the game is in this very early stage of development and there is not much else worth doing (IMHO).

 

As far as this goes...different strokes, mate. I agree that just 'living' is easy enough, once you have the supplies.

 

For me, the thing that gives me the most excitement (and requires a bit of skill as well) is approaching other players. I have been known to call out to others while in town, or if I know someone is near, in an attempt to befriend them and avoid a firefight. Sometimes it works, and I've made a number of good friends whom I still play with, when I attempt to make contact. Other times it devolves into a firefight. Other times still, I've had people betray me.

 

Those first few moments during the 'make contact' approach are the most tense. It's like chess as we size each other up by either listening to how they are talking, or watching for odd behavior. Such as odd speech patterns where it seems like they are using third party chat, or just a general indifference in the tone of voice. I enjoy this style.

 

I also get just as much excitement from KoS players who engage me outright. Provided they miss of course ;). Once it turns into a genuine firefight out of nowhere...it doesn't get much more pulse pounding or adrenaline pumping than those moments.

 

To each their own, because no matter the playstyle, we all have a place in Chernarus.

[Paule2934 7]

Well said Rhodes.  There are two things that I do not do. 

 

1.  I do not torture people with handcuffs and disinfectant and rotten fruit... that is just sick in my eyes and shows a sadistic tendency.  I am plenty happy with a clean and quick kill. 

 

2.  I do not kill people if they get the drop on me and declare friendly and I reciprocate out of self-preservation.  Some people will say "okay I am friendly too" to avoid being shot, then turn their gun on the guy as soon as an opportunity presents.  I think this is an awful thing to do to someone.. I did it once and I felt absolutely horrible afterwards.  Now if someone gets close enough to declare friendly and I deem my situation to be one that dictates that I need to declare friendly in order to survive in the short term, I will just run away when I get a chance rather than betraying the poor guy once his guard is down.

[Zjasuu 337]

Not all kills were justified but why should they be? But your question or morality:

 

1) Completely justified

 

2) IMO not cool shooting unarmed players, if they aren't a threat

 

3) Everything that happens in Electro, stays in Electro. That wouldn't be cool outside of coast/military bases though.

 

4) Causes a threat, justified

 

5) A guy who camps in a fire station with his M4 aimed at all times is up to no good, justified

 

6) Same as 4

 

7) Depends on the area, if in Electro then yes, justified

 

8) If he tried to punch me I would have shot him

 

No kills are necessary... it's pretty hard to play god and judge your actions but I can't say it wasn't fun :P

[Zjasuu 337]

 

 

For me, the thing that gives me the most excitement (and requires a bit of skill as well) is approaching other players. I have been known to call out to others while in town, or if I know someone is near, in an attempt to befriend them and avoid a firefight. Sometimes it works, and I've made a number of good friends whom I still play with, when I attempt to make contact. Other times it devolves into a firefight. Other times still, I've had people betray me.

 

 

 

Funny story, I was in Polana with my friend, then my friend got shot, I found the 2 guys who shot him, I shot at them with a shotty from about 20 meters, neither one of them died, they ran inside a house, the one with the M4 shot his friend, I went in and he shot me as well...

 

But I didn't die, I just went unconscious, then I told him in the VC how huge of an asshole he was, shooting my friend, then I got up from unconscious, told him not to shoot me (he aimed at me all the time) and he didn't shoot me. 

 

And now that guy is a part of our team.

 

Amazing part of dayz, you can meet some wonderful people but if you shoot them... well you just maybe lost a friend. 

 

BTW: NO ONE in this game has ever betrayed me.

[blissandpanic 92]

1. Why are ppl shooting unarmed survivors that are just looking for stuff half-way across the cities?

 

2. That's why i stay away from COD-cities  ( Cherno & Electro)  :beans:  :thumbsup:

[pillock 850]

Spent a few hours playing with my brother last night and I ended up killing eight people.  He got a few, not sure exactly how many.  Please rate the morality of each of my kills, I am interested to see which you think were justified and which were not.   Rate each on a scale of 1 (Completely Abhorrent) to 10 (Completely Justified), and give any comments.

 

Kill 1:  My brother was in the firestation at cherno looting the shelves under the stairs.  Suddenly someone opens up on him with an M4 without warning and he is unconscious.  The assailant attempts to finish him off with a couple of axe blows as he is down, but fails.  Assailant loots him and then leaves the firestation out the back door in a couple of minutes.  I put my Mosin w/ LR scope away and hide behind the concrete wall outside the firestation.  He walks out past me and I gun him down with my FNX.  No words were said by either side over voice chat during this encounter.  I am able to revive my brother with food and medical supplies looted from the assailant's body, and relieve him of his fully kitted M4.

 

Kill 2: We enter Elektro from the North and I see a man running with an axe in his hands toward the firestation by the church.  I shoot him with my Mosin w/ LR scope, no words said.  Don't think he ever saw me.

 

Kill 3:  I am just outside of the school in Elektro and see 3 guys about 200 meters down the street outside of an orange building.  Two have m4's, one is a fresh spawn.  I shoot one of the M4 wielders in the chest with my Mosin.   The other two run away.

 

Kill 4:  I am on the hill Southeast of the firestation.  An unarmed man goes to loot a different body near the open field between the firestations.  The body has an M4 and other gear.  I shoot him with my Mosin.

 

Kill 5:  An unarmed man is climbing up the ladder to the top roof on the other firestation.  I see a man with an M4 sitting inside the firestation on the top floor taking aim at the unarmed man.  I shoot the armed camper with my Mosin. 

 

Kill 6:  I also shoot the unarmed man who was climbing the ladder, he falls to his death (if he wasn't dead on bullet impact).

 

Kill 7:  A guy with no pants with a violet taloon backpack and a fully kitted M4 comes running up right behind me, but does not notice me because I am laying on the ground wearing camo and he obviously is not very observant.  I drop my Mosin, pull out my M4, and kill him.

 

Kill 8:  Another guy with no pants runs up to me a few minutes later and starts trying to punch me.  I tell him to go away.  Realizing that he does not have the drop on me, he complies and runs off. But then he comes back carrying a fire extinguisher a few minutes later.  Concerned by the fact that he knows where I am, won't leave me alone, and that the corpse of the other naked guy I just killed is laying nearby with a lootable M4, I kill him with my M4.

 

Were these kills necessary?  Would you have done the same if you were in this position?  Or would you have handled some of these situations differently?  I don't care to hear any "I wouldn't be in Cherno or Elektro in the first place because I like to diddle myself in the less populated areas on the interior of the map."  Just curious to see how others view morality in this game and how they qualify whether a kill is "necessary" or "justified". 

 

A good day's hunting!

[Lidskjalf 132]

I have around 230 hours combined right now -- and I've been inactive for about two weeks (mainly just bored of DayZ) -- and I've murdered 1 person.  I play the same way as Rhodes, I only use my weap's in self defense only killing dickhead PvP'ers that want to start shit.  I personally like playing this way because this is how I've met some great people while playing.  A person always has to be analytical when coming in contact with someone, but going out intentionally dumping on people just isn't my way of 'having fun'.  I have played the "PvP Bandit" before and comparing it to how I actually play most of the time is uncomparable.

[Paule2934 7]

Aye, I don't blame you for being bored of it. I'd have lost interest too if I went that long without killing anyone. Got 8 more tonight... 2 were unarmed, 1 had SKS, 3 had m4s and 2 had mosin LRS. That makes it 16 kills and counting on this life in elektro. Having a blast ;)

[Paule2934 7]

Also met an endearing character who spoke in a fake southern accent and referred to himself as "the sheriff" (presumably cuz he wore a cowboy hat). I had him trapped in the hospital and convinced him to lay down his SKS. When I walked up to the third floor to meet him I had no intention of killing him because I had grown fond of the character he was RPing. But alas, right as I walked up to see him I witnessed him get sniped through the window by a couple of players over by the cabins closer to the coast. It was a shame. Sorry that you met that untimely end, Sheriff! Your charm even melted the heart of a dedicated pvper like myself. Too bad those guys were too far away to hear you. If it makes you feel any better, I ended up getting both of them. :) hope we meet again sometime.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

"Moral" is a very subjective topic. I'd say go for it as long as it fit your own code of conduct, don't let anyone impose his over yours.

[hellcane 63]

Do you feel justified shooting?  Then yes, it is moral.

[Irish. 4886]

[blacklabel79 949]

there are no morals when it comes to killing.

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

Every kill can be justified in DayZ, not one has to.

 

 

From my Point of view...

 

 

Kill 1:  10

 

Kill 2: 1

 

Kill 3: 1

 

Kill 4: 1

 

Kill 5:  8

 

Kill 6:  1

 

Kill 7:  5

 

Kill 8: 10

 

So, 1,5 and 8 would've been situations where I would have shot as well, probably 7 too. But the other ones? Meh. Especially 2 and 6 was unneccessary...not sure about #3....

[WrecklessMEDIC 129]

You did this all in ONE day?! Thank you for reminding me how much I suck at this game. :(

[Paule2934 7]

Lol, no Medic. The first 8 kills were two nights ago, the second 8 kills and the sheriff incident were last night. About 4-5 hours of game time combined. Hit Elektro on a full server sometime, you might be surprised how much you can accomplish in a short amount of time. Can't wait to see what tonight holds :)

[sYs 133]

I just stalk my pray and make random sounds over coms to scare them. 

[Paule2934 7]

For anyone interested in this play style, I forgot to mention that it is quite crucial to have at least one team member to work with when you are on city-clearing missions so that you can share intel.  Yesterday my brother was up on the hospital roof for most of the night telling me the positions of my soon-to-be victims.  It is much easier to end someones life with minimal or no damage done to yourself if you know where they are and they don't know where you are.  So when a survivor sees my brother first, then I am the one to flank and kill him or locate and snipe him.  Conversely if the survivor sees me first then I play the distraction role and my brother would be the one to flank and dispose of him. He killed a good 5-6 people yesterday too.  If you engage in too many "fair" fights (ie fights where you see eachother at the same time and engage), you are bound to take a trip back to the coast sooner rather than later.  The guy who survives is not always the best geared or the best shooter... it is usually the most crafty and careful player.  In any case, there is a great feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment when you enter a bustling city like Elektro on a full server and systematically kill every other person there until the city is a ghost town.  :lol:

[NinjaTurkey 255]

First and ladt kill is completely justified. 10/10. The others i would rate between 1 and 2 so unjustified and a dick move.

[Paule2934 7]

Sorry to hear that you feel that way NinjaTurkey.  In fairness, the day 2 kills were almost exclusively on people who were already engaging in clear PvP activities.  With the exception of the two unarmed guys, who were both just running around trying to find loot and unfortunately crossed paths with me.  I like to think that with each kill I am teaching the victim a valuable lesson about DayZ gameplay.  One does not simply run through Elektro casually on a full server.  If they are within city limits and armed, I will kill them because they are most likely looking for a fight anyways.  If they are within city limits and unarmed, I will kill them because they are most likely looking for quick military loot from a corpse followed by a fight, or they are just that stupid and don't realize they shouldn't be running around in the streets of Elektro unarmed. In this case, the lesson may be quite valuable to their future survival efforts.