Discussion: Giving Players a Reason to Interact, not just KOS.

[D Train 6]

I've been playing with a group of friends, and so far everyone we've encountered seems to KOS. Even new spawns are only friendly until they have a means to kill us. And why shouldn't they? We're all just walking piles of supplies and ammunition. At this point we've stopped attempting to be friendly to other players we come across, as there's too much risk involved.

 

There needs to be something in place to motivate players to not just kill each other. And punishing players for killing is NOT the answer.

 

The solution? Rewarding positive player interactions.

 

Interactions like applying medical aid to wounded players, giving food and water to players in need, or simply trading supplies with one and other. All positive interactions between players.

 

Eat enough food and your character is energized, drink enough water and your character is hydrated, help enough players and your character can enjoy a small benefit. Stop helping players, and your benefit will diminish. And any benefit could be added as a status or condition visually shown in the players inventory.

 

Something simple like a TINY increase to the health pool, to negate part of the risk taken to actually interacting with another player. Or allowing the player to get SLIGHTLY closer to zombies without being noticed, allowing them to move through and loot towns a little safer. Maybe a FEW slots of extra inventory space, letting them carry an extra supply or two in case they come across someone else in need. The possibilities are endless.

 

Whatever the execution, subtlety is key. The benefit gained can't be game breaking or overpowered, we don't want to 'buff' the good guys and 'nerf' the bad guys. The goal is to promote varied interactions between players, and the simplest way to do so is to make positive interactions between players directly beneficial.

 

Thoughts?

 

:beans:

 

I'll updating this first post with links to my replys to people actually taking the time to read the thread and intelligently respond. Feel free to use them instead of wading through the trash posted by people who haven't read the thread. 

 

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Edited March 6, 2014 by D Train

[oregonized 673]

Once they add horses and/or dogs I won't need other players.

[TheLastEmp 295]

If you are in a group of two or more, people are a LOT less likely to be friendly towards you and much much more likely to shoot on sight.  Can't take any chances when you're outnumbered.

 

I was stalking two players and was going to hold them up but they spotted me and lured me in to a bit of a trap.  They tried to get me to drop my gun but I evaded and doubled back around behind them.  I killed both of them and hated myself for it afterwards.  It was right after they released the SKS and I was being over protective :P

[VahidkinG 192]

i'm not agree to any benefit for helping because all that aren't realistic , you wont get more health or another pocket to carry more objects just for helping in real life. but your population increased. So, i think the Hero/Bandit system when it comes to the game, there will be a good reason to helping other players, why ?

 

Because when you help people, people will do it for you aswell , when you are marked as a hero player , people will help you because you marked as a friendly and there is less risk. 

[Hrki 94]

Story of my progress ingame.

 

When i first start i just try to evade big cities and i go to north where i was like living in woods and scouting town 20min befour i was entering and maybe i was two or three times on AF. Also when i saw someone i was trying that he dont see me. If i get cought in some bad situation i was trying not to shoot because it was 50/50 who will kill first...

After i got killed: 5x KOS by some hopper who log in under jail stairs
5x KOS by some random guy

9x die of bug

 

Then i realize that:
- if you are hopper you can get "build" in 3h deppends of luck (most time is taken you to run to nearest AF)

- if you are hopper most likely you will find someone quicker on your "spot"

- if you own your server you dont eaven need to hop you just restart it manualy every time you loot nearest AF

- play on low pop servers gear up without risk that someone loot it allready or that you will meet someone

 

like top guy say "New spawns are only friendly until they have a means to kill us"

also if you are playing like "real surivivor" you will get boring (atleast at this progress of game) when your only thing to do is get military stuff and thats all and also if you are playing like one of those stylse where is fun and risk that you will lose your  hard earned equipment.

Wow my heart was beeting hard when i saw someone eaven if i am 800m away from him because i had my hard earnd pristine can opener -.-'. You can have full pristine stuffs in 2hours of gaming where is fun here... Maybe if they rear that loot and if there is like 0.1% chance that you will find pristine maybe you wont instantly KOS someone because if you did you just get another KOS and that is bad circle of life...

 

So in my 100h of game DayZSA i meet maybe 2guys who didnt KOS me because they saw us few in town and only catch one of us (me) so i guess they didnt want to take risk to be dead by other members. Or fresh spawns without weapon. Few of them was trying to fist kill me but ....

 

From now on if i see anyone anywhere eaven if he is fresh spawn il kill him. Why? Bunch of hoppers, bandits and other KOS die sooner or later and they are fresh spawns. I just like to stop them in futher development ingame (also maybe they died and now they want to come back to body) When i was fresh spawn i got every time killed eaven if i didnt have eaven shirt and pants on me.

Sad story but dayz is going to be like any other FPS only different is that you need to find stuff you dont spawn with it...

And for and: "We're all just walking piles of supplies and ammunition" - ofc we are and you get to "end game progress in 2h and your gear or life dont mean anything because you will be geard up in 2h.... Maybe when this game progress more and they add more stuff you wont KOS because you dont want to find again that guy who dont trust anyone and he kill you and you lost all your hard earned equipment. But till then play DayKOS

Edited March 6, 2014 by HrkiGV

[Foolz 18]

Zombies ! More Zombies is always the answer!

 

but on your thoughts for player interaction. I agree there should be more incentive. But I do not think what you propose makes sense. How would the devs do that? this would become quite a difficult challenge to find a way to monitor/measure the interactions of people.

 

Keep It Simple.

 

Zombies !

 

What I mean - what if the towns/areas were rampant with Zombies? 

Force people to try to work together so they can find loot/Suppliers

Make Airforce bases a Serious health hazzard.

When I start to NEED people to survive. when I see a person and I am HAPPY that maybe we can work together...then you have built that incentive.

 

There will always be lone wolves, there will always be KOS. But you can catch the "on the fence" crowd and nudge them into the co-op camp.

 

On a Last note - if they do add a significant increase in the zombie horde/challenge. Then they do need to re-examine/rebalance the Melee weapons. Currently they are a little "out of balance", so I really hope they look into that.

[Hrki 94]

yep and when you finaly manage into town and find some loot you will be bad option to split loot with you so why dont simply kill you ?

[Dchil 829]

There is no possible way to incentivise interaction between players without giving away something you can't just kill them for. If you are supposed to get a "money" of sorts from interaction then what are you going to use it on? If you want supplies to be given up to the other party then how do you decide which supplies you give? What if the other party doesn't want to give / get some supplies? What's stopping me from killing him for those supplies. A sanity system? ARE YOU FUCKING JOKING!?!? there is no way to do it in a way which can't be exploited and it doesn't work like that IRL. The OP's suggestion of boosting player stats as a result of player interaction would be incredibly hard to code, take time away from more important things like attempting to fix the ladder bug and are at best an easily exploited system.

How? Bandits often are in groups, which means they have other people to help them bandit and KOS. What's stopping them from interacting with each other to gain these benefits which make no sense from a realism standpoint?

 

Absolutely, fuck all. Nothing. Zilch. Squat. NADA.

And don't add in checks for multiple interactions with one person cause all that will do is make them gather in larger groups.

 

EDIT: after a few months of having it i just realized there is a typo in my sig. Damnit!

Edited March 6, 2014 by Dchil

[lumo1234 68]

i'm not agree to any benefit for helping because all that aren't realistic , you wont get more health or another pocket to carry more objects just for helping in real life. but your population increased. So, i think the Hero/Bandit system when it comes to the game, there will be a good reason to helping other players, why ?

 

Because when you help people, people will do it for you aswell , when you are marked as a hero player , people will help you because you marked as a friendly and there is less risk. 

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but the hero/bandit (morality system) is not being implemented in SA afaik.

 

Too the OP i do agree it would be good to give incentives to be good/evil but the only way this thread is going to end up is someone suggesting player skills, and then the people who played since the start of the mod circle jerking each other on why its a bad idea because they have played the mod since release so their word and opinions mean more than any other. (sorry to generalize if you have played since the mods release and you aren't like this)

[oregonized 673]

[tmbt 34]

I'm not agree with you. I cannot understand why there should be a sort of reward to behave "good". This game is about survivor. It's not about friendship! In a post apocalyptic world you don't get a bonus if you behave properly. Your bonus is to survive. If I'm hungry and you have food I have two choices : I ask you some food  or I try to get some food from you. Dayz is not about "do the right thing". Dayz is about to do whatever you've to survive.

I don't even want to analyze if the devs could do it or not. The thing is that the human nature is a mix of good and evil and I cannot see why we should "force" people to behave properly. Everyone behaves as he/she want. End of the story.

[Juljan 5]

i'm not agree to any benefit for helping because all that aren't realistic , you wont get more health or another pocket to carry more objects just for helping in real life. but your population increased. So, i think the Hero/Bandit system when it comes to the game, there will be a good reason to helping other players, why ?

 

Because when you help people, people will do it for you aswell , when you are marked as a hero player , people will help you because you marked as a friendly and there is less risk. 

 

I agree with your general argumentation, but please do not use the " it cannot be done because it's not realstic". It's a game ! You can respawn after death, is that realistic ?  Would you like to have to sleep several hours a day in the game so that it would be reallistic ?

The worst thing in DayZ are the players. In real life, when disasters occur, most people are helping each other and a minority takes some profit from the situation. Seems that in games and particularly in DayZ it's the opposite. I would much more appreciate DayZ  if the cooperation side of the game was reinforced.

[flygamer1 176]

I would still kos because it's a part of the game. Deal with it.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

KoS'ing will always be part of the game.  Once more features get implemented the KoS'ers will just have obstacles  in the way.  They will still KoS but then run the risk, which is severely lacking atm, of being killed themselves afterward 

[CANUCKinNZ 108]

I see a problem with this. In the mod I played with about 8 or 10 guys. What's to stop us all from getting into a nice big circle and passing a can of beans around or shooting each other in the foot and then bandaging each other. Bam, super clan who's got higher blood limits and is invisible to zombies. I can't see it being possible to implement at all.

[wild_man 4442]

I kill 99% of player I meet in game who having gun :thumbsup: :ph34r:

 

reason is self preserve survive strategy and pure enjoy of win feels and reward of loot ;)

 

but 1% I don't kill why is??? :huh:

 

personality

 

if they making me smile or making me interest in what they saying and manage to make connect with me in some way IS INCREASE SURVIVE CHANCE FOR THEM :thumbsup:  :)

 

tip for you

 

#1 don't say 'hey I am friendly don't shoot' - is no imagination bullshit I don't having time for listen always answer from me is same - no words only bullet >:(

[dejeffers 39]

Following along the lines of what Foolz said, if they make the game stupidly hard to survive as a solo player you could add a reason for interacting.

 

Put a sh*t load of zeds in all the high priority locations.

 

Going to cities, AF's and military bases should require multiple people to help stem the tide of zeds. This could mean people will be more inclined to seek help or assist others. If at that point they, or you, decide to turn on your fellow survivors for the loot, well so be it. At least there was some interaction first!

 

This wouldn't force a playstyle on anyone, you could still hit the smaller towns for a bit of loot then spend your days in the hills hunting if you like. But if you want the good stuff, a bit of co-operation, even if temporary, would be required.

 

You won't get rid of KoS, nor should you. It adds a dynamic to the game whether you agree with it or not.

I would also hate to see anything that defines a player as good or bad. We are all bad already, but just to varying degrees!

[SteenRNS 35]

Following along the lines of what Foolz said, if they make the game stupidly hard to survive as a solo player you could add a reason for interacting.

 

Put a sh*t load of zeds in all the high priority locations.

 

Going to cities, AF's and military bases should require multiple people to help stem the tide of zeds. This could mean people will be more inclined to seek help or assist others. If at that point they, or you, decide to turn on your fellow survivors for the loot, well so be it. At least there was some interaction first!

 

This wouldn't force a playstyle on anyone, you could still hit the smaller towns for a bit of loot then spend your days in the hills hunting if you like. But if you want the good stuff, a bit of co-operation, even if temporary, would be required.

 

You won't get rid of KoS, nor should you. It adds a dynamic to the game whether you agree with it or not.

I would also hate to see anything that defines a player as good or bad. We are all bad already, but just to varying degrees!

 

 

This^

[Tatanko 5591]

If you are in a group of two or more, people are a LOT less likely to be friendly towards you and much much more likely to shoot on sight.  Can't take any chances when you're outnumbered.

You think so? My friends and I have always operated in groups because we see strength in numbers. That's not to say we go marching through town side-by-side like British redcoats, we are very stealthy. We hide our numbers, like the Sand People from Star Wars  :P

 

 

Even new spawns are only friendly until they have a means to kill us. And why shouldn't they? We're all just walking piles of supplies and ammunition.

Very well said :)

 

Zombies ! More Zombies is always the answer!

This!

[deebz1234 243]

how do these threads still exist? should be an auto delete bot as soon as either KOS or Humanity system is posted hah

 

no OP, there will not be anything of the sorts. In real life do I get "humanity points" for not hitting cyclists with my car? No I do not, which sucks because if that was the case id get bandit points for hitting them maybe? sweet. Watch the dev blogs and rocket's videos and such, your questions have been answered.

 

go play dayz mod variants for a humanity system

 

tralala

Edited March 6, 2014 by deebz1234

[Leo Balzac 190]

Once some mechanics are implemented (More aggressive zombie AI/Spawning, more detailed medical/health system etc) this game will end up requiring more co-operation to survive, IMHO.

[Miquinei 81]

I've been playing with a group of friends, and so far everyone we've encountered seems to KOS. Even new spawns are only friendly until they have a means to kill us. And why shouldn't they? We're all just walking piles of supplies and ammunition. At this point we've stopped attempting to be friendly to other players we come across, as there's too much risk involved.

 

There needs to be something in place to motivate players to not just kill each other. And punishing players for killing is NOT the answer.

 

The solution? Rewarding positive player interactions.

 

Interactions like applying medical aid to wounded players, giving food and water to players in need, or simply trading supplies with one and other. All positive interactions between players.

 

Eat enough food and your character is energized, drink enough water and your character is hydrated, help enough players and your character can enjoy a small benefit. Stop helping players, and your benefit will diminish. And any benefit could be added as a status or condition visually shown in the players inventory.

 

Something simple like a TINY increase to the health pool, to negate part of the risk taken to actually interacting with another player. Or allowing the player to get SLIGHTLY closer to zombies without being noticed, allowing them to move through and loot towns a little safer. Maybe a FEW slots of extra inventory space, letting them carry an extra supply or two in case they come across someone else in need. The possibilities are endless.

 

Whatever the execution, subtlety is key. The benefit gained can't be game breaking or overpowered, we don't want to 'buff' the good guys and 'nerf' the bad guys. The goal is to promote varied interactions between players, and the simplest way to do so is to make positive interactions between players directly beneficial.

 

Thoughts?

 

I tell you what mate.

 

In my personal opinion your idea is the dumbest thing to be ever implement. This is not Battlefield 4, World of Warcraft or any other casual-friendly experience. 

 

This is a RAW and true game concept from 90's, where developers never cared about satisfying masses but creating a game that they really wanted to create. 

 

DayZ is meant to be a survival zombie apocalypse game and along with Dark Souls is the ONLY game that provides real "challenge" and "real gameplay" without any wheel carts for lazy gamers. This game is meant to be harsh and unforgiving, sure it can get you frustrated. I'd advise you to part with that old DayZ saying "If you got killed upon being seen, ensure you're not seen". 

 

And that's all there is to it. If you want to help people, the game does allows you to help. Are you encouraged by the game? No but there's nothing wrong with it. 

Edited March 6, 2014 by Miquinei

[Martmital 436]

There is already a reason...  the smug satisfaction!

[Miquinei 81]

There is already a reason...  the smug satisfaction!

 

How can easy mode be satisfying?

 

Imo killing on sight is for weak. Is way too easy to just camped it out and spray people down. 

 

Real challenge is to get close and make the guy surrender and if he doesn't well, let the game begin. 

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

Welcome to the Deathmatch Permadeath KOS Standalone.

 

There's literally no reason not to shoot everyone you see.  It's all risk, no reward.  You risk DEATH everytime you don't kill that person.  There is no reward strong enough to prevent that.

 

All of the little "suggestions" or "small changes" or "little things" people suggest won't fix it.  Small stat boosts, nope.  More zombies, nope.  Cars, bases, more flowers, nope.

 

Unless they come up with an EFFECTIVE humanity system like the one below in my signature, the game will be 100% KOS.